Oct
14th
2014
And now, Deep Thoughts. With M.A. Larson. · 7:14am Oct 14th, 2014
This has been Deep Thoughts, With M.A. Larson.
- Member Since 14th Dec, 2011
- offline last seen 3 hours ago
Steel Resolve
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Joined 14th Dec, 2011 ·
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Dat expression, tho.
same goes for the most adorkable ship: TwiShy
AppleDashers everywhere celebrate!
Yush, down with the heinous RariJack, here with the RariShy
Well, he is a magnificently diabolical sumbitch with a fondness for rustling jimmies, so I wouldn't put it past him.
Bah, everyone knows he ships RariJack. I call shenaniga- Wait, no that's Andy Price and Katie Cook, my bad.
Yay! RariShy!!!!
Flarity is acceptable.
Mildly.
2531899
I could see that. In essence you would have AJ broken up because she lost Rarity and Dash because she lost Fluttershy and they both break down somewhat in view of each other and then the apples start dashing in their shared pain.
2532065 All that except the being broken up part, since there was no attraction to either
or 
in the first place!
2531924 I find it funny you, Tecrn, and I all all agree that rare jack is like... I don't understand the ship at all. It's the only thing my boyfriend and I majorly disagree on. Other than he wants to molest a Sweetie Belle.
On a side note, I am very pro Fluttershy/Rarity!
2532209 Y'all need to smack some sense into him. RariJack is just not a ship that sticks, at all!
2531899
Leave, AppleDash filth.
2532209
Rarity and Applejack are both business owners. One is from an old, well-connected family, and the other is building up from scratch and attempting to become nouveau-riche. I would like to see a ponified Atlas Shrugged with Rarijack. My economics are tingling. We need more stories with Old Money Applejack, and I'm not just talking the Apple Mafia.
Besides that weird mercantile aside, they have so much chemistry together, and not because of that stupid "opposites attract" thing. Rather, their opposition is the conflict that can make their story interesting, while they belong together for entirely different reasons. I would write an in-depth analysis but I don't see the point. Maybe it could be my NaNoWriMo...
And are you saying that you do not want to molest a Sweetie Belle?
2532270 Not gonna get into a big debate on Steel's page.
I'll just say... there is attraction between all six - but like with FlutterDash and PinkieDash, there's no staying power in RariJack. This blog pretty much outlines the issues with it.
2532290 Actually, that blog pretty much details how a couple that fights and gets back together is pretty much the most romantic thing ever.
2532304 It does, if it works. She outlines how RariJack is essentially that - passionate romance, but the passion continues in the form of big fights - leading them apart. Then they pine, and get back together, but continue fighting and separating and getting back over and over again. That's what RariJack is - and that's not really a healthy relationship. It doesn't have the staying power of others. That's what I keep saying.
2532313 Perhaps, but it's a relationship that would retain it's passion throughout their lives.
2532320 The fighting's unhealthy, though.
. It's the problem I have with it. There's arguing, there's fights, there's big fights, and then there's what these two would have. I maintain that if these fights didn't happen, and they didn't have to stop talking to/seeing each other for a long while, they'd eventually murder each other. That's just how bad it would get between the two.
I just prefer my ships somewhat more sane, y'know? :P
2532290
I know, I've read it.
Basing your arguments on season 4's characterization of their relationship is unacceptable to me, the writers really dropped the ball on that. On anything to do with Rarity's relationship to Ponyville, really. She grew up there. She's just as much of a hick as Applejack, with similar values and attitudes. The whole deal with Applejack's accent and the Apple family's practically homogeneous makeup as the country bumpkin stereotype is pretty much the biggest problem I have with the Mane Six's backgrounds. The Apples are discontinuous with the rest of Equestria, it's just weird.
Besides the problems in the canon's own characterization, the post itself draws some pretty "interesting" conclusions.
"The fighting's unhealthy, though. It's the problem I have with it. There's arguing, there's fights, there's big fights, and then there's what these two would have." That whole argument is one of spurious reasoning. "The intent to actually wound your partner?" I don't see how. That's an extrapolation of an extrapolation of an extrapolation, and it's stupid. I already said the opposition between Applejack and Rarity is a conflict that they both need to overcome, and it's one that would make a very interesting story. It's not inevitable. People change, and in fact I prefer them to. The idea that this dooms their romance to that of the tragic, fated kind, that their love is forever unhealthy, is ridiculous. They can be characterized much better than that.
Um, no. Why would you think that? Because you assume that these arguments break their relationship. Why do you assume that? Because Rarity's composure is somehow broken when she shows her pride and stubbornness, and that this annoyance causes her to deepen the argument? Sorry, that's bullshit. That is one way their relationship could go; to suggest that it is the inevitable one is ludicrous.
Besides all of that, the fact that you link that post as an argument against RariJack is also ridiculous. That you think there is no "staying power" is unsupported. What staying power is not in FlutterDash or PinkieDash? What staying power is supposedly in AppleDash?
2532327 I dunno, man. I picture most of their arguments ending more like this
derpicdn.net/img/2014/4/24/609024/tall.png
2532361Arguably, you could say the same of AppleDash, But with more "why were we fighting?" "Dunno, don't care anymore" afterwards.
2532342
Just because one grows up someplace doesn't mean that one likes or respects the values or attitudes of the place. Rarity says as much in Sweet and Elite:
And I would say that completely altering your mannerisms and accent are other good indications. That doesn't sound like dropping the ball, it sounds like consistent characterization.
Because when you have two people with pride on the line in an argument, they will win by any means necessary, which you can see in the AJ and Rarity fights in canon-- even on a kids show, in fights about trivial things, they get positively silly. There's always the option of compromise in some cases, but AJ and Rarity have no ability to compromise because (as shown in Trade Ya) they don't understand each other enough to do that. If they miss the entire point of why the other wanted to buy something at a flea market, how are they going to understand why the other wants kid or doesn't want kids (for example, or any of the other important fights a very different couple will have)? And going to extremes in that sort of fight is going to attack things that are very important to the other, which is going to hurt them.
It's an extrapolation of an analysis, actually.
Actually, that was my follow up blog post: Ships, character change, and unfortunate implications.
The short version is that character change is great, and it's one way you can make any ship work (though if that's where you're going, it's silly to dislike any ship) but that it has to be done carefully, because there are unfortunate implications in the idea that the characters should change, or want to change, to be with another pony. That's, in fact, what Simple Ways was about. Character change has to be handled responsibly, and not all authors are capable of that. So at best, that's a solution that depends on having good authors to write a ship, and it's weird to me when people use it as the basis of why they ship something.
I try to take into account as much canon as I can when I talk about characterization, because that's the core of what we know of the characters. If you have an alternate characterization that takes the episodes into account, without ignoring the ones you didn't like, I'm all ears.
If you're ignoring episodes you didn't like, I reject the idea that it's a "better" characterization. You're free to use it, but other people are free to call it out of character if you're ignoring canon.
2532458
As the show moves farther from the first season, the less of it I accept. Flanderization, corporate meddling, bad writers. I don't care much for what your opinion of canon is. You might as well tell me to take the comics seriously, or the godawful children's books.
The values and attitudes are exactly what she dislikes of Canterlot. That was the point of the episode. The aesthetics of Canterlot are what she refers to; the class and refinement, the cosmopolitanism of the place. Every time the values and attitudes of Canterlot, Manehattan, the places she otherwise admires are brought up, she is the one to denounce them. Those are the objects of Sweet & Elite and Rarity Takes Manehattan, the fact that she looks past the aesthetics and doesn't accept the more cynical undercurrent. The fact that you don't see the same speaks a lot towards your own characterization of Rarity. She isn't shallow.
No, it's an extrapolation of an extrapolation of an extrapolation. First of all, you assume that Rarity isn't afraid of having her facade stripped away, even though her mannerisms are not a facade, that it is an annoyance to her, and that this annoyance (nothing holding them back, not pretending) also means that they'll both go to low blows and try to harm each other.
No, they don't.
Wrong.
Changing a character doesn't change their background or personality, it changes how they have learned to express it. Chemistry doesn't change because people do, and chemistry is what makes a good ship, not the parts of characters that change or grow.
2532576
Then you're going to have trouble with people who take the show as canon. Especially those of us who recognize that the characters have always been broadly drawn. You think that Simple Ways is Flanderization of the character who spent a whole episode defending the fact that she was trying clean up for a storm by making topiaries? A character who was willing to fight with her friends because she planned to marry a stallion she'd never met and needed to go to the Gala to meet him?
You can argue that she hasn't grown as much as you'd like to see, but the episodes focus just as much on those aspects of her personality in S4 as in S1.
Appreciation for grace, beauty, true nobility, and sophistication are values and attitudes. Those are the values and attitudes she accepts and builds her chosen life around, and they don't come from Ponyville. She does reject the more cynical side, represented by Suri or Blueblood or Jet Set and Upper Crust. She embraces the attitudes expressed by Fancy Pants and Princess Celestia.
She isn't shallow. She sees multiple aspects of Canterlot and Manehattan and tries to bring the best parts of herself to those aspects. But the aspects she embraces mean a rejection of certain aspects of Ponyville-- the practicality, simplicity, and lack of artifice. She has no respect for those, and doesn't understand why ponies would see them as superior (as evidenced by her surprise at Fancy Pants liking Twilight's dress, or her not understanding that cleaning up for the storm didn't mean beautifying the trees.)
No, it's an analysis of what's shown in canon, and an extrapolation from that. Allow me to show you:
This is not an assumption. Sisterhooves Social showed that she can drop part of her facade (her over-the-top dislike of dirt) when it's important. She didn't show any fear or hesitation there, though it annoyed her and she wanted to get to the spa right away.
Her accent clearly is, given that her parents and sister don't share the same one. And unless you're trying to tell me that she really thinks that losing her ribbon is The Worst Possible Thing, she obviously purposely goes over the top for dramatic effect. You can also see that in Suited for Success, when she's in her room monolouging and drops her melodramatic facade to ponder calmly what one packs to go into exile, before picking it back up. Obviously she's upset there, and has every right to be, but the way she's expressing it is an act she's putting on.
Which it is. For example, see her reaction to having to leave the dresses behind when going to fight the changelings.
That would be the extrapolation. As I said, extrapolation from analysis of canon. I think I know what I'm doing.
First, how they express their personality is part of their personality. Not all of it, of course, but traits like "blunt," "outspoken," and "shy," are personality traits. As are things like "judgmental," "understanding," "empathetic," or "close-minded." I have no idea of what you think can change about a character that isn't part of their personality.
Second, when talking about someone other than you, personally, chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. And it clearly can change based on changes in personality-- look at how many people who are very in love when they get married end up divorced. And that number actually goes way up as couples rely more on chemistry and less on shared values.
If you see chemistry in RariJack based on your interpretation of their characters from half of canon, think that you could change something about them without changing their personalities, and that wouldn't change the chemistry, that is fine. It's equally valid as someone who sees no chemistry in RariJack, or thinks that changing a character for love is unhealthy.
But to people who disagree with your premise: who take all of canon into account, or who don't see the chemistry, or who thinks characters changing for true love is creepy, for that person, your arguments are not valid. I am that person, Tcherno is that person. If you want to convince either of us that there's nothing wrong with the ship, you have to argue based on our premise-- the show is canon, and changing Rarity and AJ to make them happier together is creepy unless done very skillfully.
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