How "Twilight's Kingdom" broke Discord · 5:13am May 11th, 2014
I don't hate "Twilight's Kingdom." I want to get that out of the way now, in case someone thinks I'm going to be ranting about how much I hate this finale. Because I don't. I just found it underwhelming, and this is one reason why.
Quick recap: Tirak has escaped Tartaurus and is stealing everypony's magic. Discord is sent to track him down and stop him, and Discord manages to do both without much trouble. Tirak begins telling Discord what a shame it is he's gone soft and values friendship and how they both can have their way with Equestria if they team up. Discord decides he likes the sound of that and helps Tirak round up all the ponies everywhere. Eventually, Tirak stabs Discord in the back and steals Discord's power. Discord regrets his decision to betray his friends and returns to the side of friendship, eventually having his powers restored when Tirak is defeated.
Here's why this doesn't work.
1) Discord should not have been taken in by Tirak's words. Discord himself is a master silvertongue, having singlehandedly imploded the mane six in "Return of Harmony." This tactic doesn't work in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" because the mane six have learned to expect it and recognize when he tries to do it again. Fluttershy even uses it to her advantage as a means of showing she cares about him, thus cracking his heart open enough for friendship to begin to sink in. Tirak's attempts to convince Discord to join him are tactics Discord himself has used in the past, and he should have been smart enough to recognize Tirak's silvertongue-ery as such.
2) Tirak could not and did not offer Discord anything Discord could not have had on his own. Discord ruled Equestria once before being defeated by Celestia and Luna, and was well on his way to conquering it again before the mane six defeated him in "Return of Harmony." Both instances required the use of the Elements of Harmony. When Fluttershy refused to use her Element against him in "Keep Calm," Discord could have proceeded to conquer Equestria unhindered, but chose not to. While it's true Fluttershy could have reneged on her promise later, that possibility is irrelevant to the events of "Keep Calm," as Discord decides to abandon world domination without Fluttershy ever indicating she would do so. The only reason he didn't take over was because he chose not to.
3) Discord chose to give up world domination because he values friendship more. This is at the heart of why Tirak's persuasion should have failed. Discord chose of his own will in "Keep Calm" to value friendship more than his own desires or fun. This was a central point of Tirak's attempts at persuasion, and it's one Discord should have rejected because he effectively did so in "Keep Calm."
4) Discord already learned this lesson in "Keep Calm and Flutter On." From a moral-telling standpoint, this ground was already covered, and in my opinion it was done much better. There's no need to go over it again. I'm sure there are plenty of episodes that repeat morals, but "Keep Calm" has a special place in my heart as an episode I defended in-depth in the past, so it irks me to see its point brushed aside.
So, the question becomes, what could be done instead? Here's my answer: Instead of having Tirak persuade Discord to join him, have him force Discord to join him.
Here's how the scene plays out: Discord confronts Tirak as before. Tirak tries to talk Discord over to his side, but Discord rejects the idea for the reasons I stated above. Tirak then reveals he is already more powerful than Discord (because having him weaker at that point is an arbitrary decision made by the writers) and tells Discord if he doesn't help him, he will take away Discord's powers. Discord agrees, but does what he can to help his friends without getting caught. Discord constantly hides important information from Tirak anyway (a fourth alicorn princess, the fact that Twilight now has all the alicorns' magic, or the obvious failsafe he set up by bookmarking relevant portions of the group journal), which doesn't make much sense if Discord is supposed to be Tirak's willing and compliant ally.
Thematically, this works much better as well, because Discord's growth as a character is now contrasted against Tirak, whose desires mirror those Discord himself had when he first appeared in "Return of Harmony" (revenge, take over the world, etc.). It forces Discord to face the worst of his past self and allows him to reject it anew, much like Rainbow Dash rejects Lightning Dust's tactics in "Wonderbolt Academy." It also sets him up as a foil to Twilight when she willingly gives up all her magic to save her friends. This would allow Discord's character to grow even more, having seen Twilight's example and having learned through experience that betraying your friends in the interest of self-preservation doesn't pay off.
But hey, that's just me. What do you think?
~Scribblestick
... Okay, so, am I the only one who interpreted Discord as having manipulated Tirek to produce exactly the outcome the episode provided?
Come one. He winked at Celestia at the end. It was planned.
You're right. I didn't notice it so much because I don't really like discord as a character, but this works much better because it was weird for discord to notice twilight's new power but then tell tirek that "it was nothing"
Would have been better if, when Discord ported and captured the Mane 6 + Spike - Twilight, he could have told them of what was going on and that he had a plan to stop Tirak, but that they would need to play along. It was clear that he understood the keys and that, in the end, it was he who gave Twilight the final one needed to access their super-saiyn powers and defeat Tirak.
In fact, it could even be argued that this was his intention the entire time and that he wanted to create the situation so that the Mane 6 could unlock the box.
Perhaps he knew that Cerberus leaving his post was planned and if Discord had simply dragged Tirak back to Taurtarus, he would have just escaped again and would steal more magic (remember that they never spoke of returning the magic to the ponies that had lost it since they may not have known how). If he did, Discord would have then thought of a plan to create the situation in which Twilight gets her key, gains the power to defend Equestria with her friends, and sets an example for all those who would dare think to challenge Equestria.
Welp nevermind
http://i.imgur.com/Y2XYGom.png
2099770 I considered it, but what's the point? Discord was sent to stop Tirak, even though Twilight was willing to do it and Cadance backed her up. He did just that. There was no need for Twilight to get involved at all.
2100025
I'm not sure what you mean by "understood the keys." I think he understood they were important, just like everyone else, but I'm reluctant to accept that he knew they would unlock a new ultimate power.
It's true Twilight needed some scenario to learn that one should be willing to make great sacrifices for friends (I think that's the lesson, right?), but planning the escape of someone who can strip a pony of their magic to do it seems... well, overkill.
2100130
Interesting post, but I'm not convinced.
First, Discord's magic radar. I'll accept that Discord can 'sense' magic and locate its source, but if we're going with a radar analogy, there's a problem. Radar detects things. It doesn't tell you what they are. Discord is clearly familiar wit Tirak, so he already knows what his 'pings' 'look' like. The box, by contrast, is something entirely new, something no one knows anything about because it was revealed after Twilight did something no one had ever did. Plus, it's been sitting right next to the Tree of Harmony, possibly the most powerful source of magic in Equestria. If that's not going to screw up magic radar, I don't know what will.
Even ignoring that, there's no indication that this kind of power has ever been known to exist in Equestria. The Elements of Harmony have been called "the most powerful magic known to ponykind" since the beginning of the show, and I get the impression "box power" is supposed to trump that. Discord would have to be privy to some really interesting information to have any idea what this box can do, which seems to me a lazy cop-out.
Second, the poster seems to think its irrelevant that the 'other pony' in each of the key episodes was irrelevant, that it didn't matter that the main six helped another learn something about friendship that makes them better as a person (pony?). If that's the case, why bother to have another pony learn something in the first place?
The reason the other ponies matter is explained at the end of "Twilight's Kingdom." Twilight and, presumably, the rest of the mane six have now been charged with teaching others about friendship. The other princesses, and by extension we, understand the're ready for this responsibility because they've all proven themselves capable of doing so. Notice that the mane six didn't always teach the same lesson they learned; in "Breezies," Fluttershy learns the value of tough love, but Seabreeze learns the value of a kind word in frustrating times. They are to teach others what they understand of friendship for the betterment of Equestrian society.
As we've seen time and again throughout the series, the characters receive new responsibilities as they demonstrate their capability to handle them. Twilight is assigned to study friendship only after demonstrating she would value such an assignment through her use of the Elements and her sadness at leaving her new friends behind. The mane six are charged with sending Celestia friendship letters after sharing with Celestia a lesson they learned about friendship. Twilight becomes a princess only after demonstrating qualities befitting a leader and pushing her knowledge and understanding of friendship to new bounds. So when the mane six are charged with teaching others about friendship, it's only because they've been doing so throughout the season, and we can't make an exception for Twilight.
It doesn't matter that Cheese Sandwich and Seabreeze and the others aren't linked to the Elements of Harmony. Why should it? Friendship is friendship, whether you use it as the ultimate defensive weapon or not, and when the mane six are charged to teach others about friendship, it's not because anypony else is related to the Elements. It's because when everyone has a better understanding of how to be a good friend, the world is better off as a whole.
Third, Discord did it all to help Twilight. Given the events of "Three's a Crowd," I find that a little hard to believe. Discord clearly could have - and, in fact, did - subdue Tirak on his own. I don't see any reason for Discord to then turn around and let Twilight do it, especially since Tirak could take away Discord's power, too.
Fourth, Discord didn't have to learn anything. Maybe, but I'd rather see Discord grow as a character than play the infallible chess master.
2099770
I don't really think Discord was using Tirek. He was genuinely hurt when Tirek betrayed him. He wouldn't have reacted this way if he didn't value their partnership.
I agree with a fair amount of this, what kinda annoyed me was the lack of development of his friendship with the mane 6 (Fluttershy excluded) and all of a sudden they are friends at the end? They all showed annoyance and irritation with him at the beginning of the first episode.
Don't get me wrong. Like you I loved it, just that kinda irked me a little.
I just had a thought. I was going to say something about how it doesn't make sense either way, because if it's all part of a plan why does he seem so genuinely hurt when he gets betrayed. Then I realized I used the term make sense with Discord. So yea, one interpartation is Tirek changed his mind, but anohter is he just decided at random he'd rather be friends with the new badguy for no good reason. It isn't in the episode obviously, but we don't actually see him make the decision. Granted this could easily be nothing but an excuse for bad writing, but it would be in character for Discord to suddenly make a completely illogical decision, now wouldn't it?
2102625 I dunno. Discord may be chaos incarnate, but he always seems to have a purpose and reason behind what he does, usually to ensure he can remain free to do as he pleases (tempered by his discovery of friendship, of course).
2102708 Yea, I've been thinking of it and maybe it's not entirely random, but more of warped perspective of friendship. His relationship with Fluttershy was very sudden, and everyone else doesn't really trust him, with reason obviously, so he decides Tirek is a step up since he can have a friendship without restriction, and friendship is something he's decided he wants. It still isn't a sensible conclusion, but it isn't entirely random either. In other words Discord thought dumping Fluttershy to make friends with Tirek was a good idea. This also makes the second part all the more sad because not only did he genuinely think Tirek was a friend, but that somehow he was a better friend that Fluttershy.
2103507 That would be interesting. It's not really the sense I get, and Tirek flat-out tells Discord friendship is worthless, so I'm not sure why Discord would think Tirek would be a better friend, but it's an interesting idea.
But then the whole 3sa crowd episode fucks this up further because The m6 should have known discord would try to betray them.
Its just another plot hole in an already weak season.