Mar
30th
2014
Maud Pie meets Quizzical: The poetry of the layers · 9:59pm Mar 30th, 2014
When I saw Maud Pie I immediately thought of Quizzical. The grey coat, the monotone voice, her uninterestingness to other ponies, her fascination with rocks...
JMac has written a little sketch in which Maud meets Quiz. It's just a little thing, but it's the only QuizMaud (Quad?) out there. So far.
I wish the show's writers had ripped off Quizzical (or ripped her off more successfully), to give us a character who was in fact interesting if you took the time to get to know her. It's a little sad that they chose to reinforce a stereotype rather than fighting it as JMac did.
What stereotype would that be? (I do have a guess)
Me too. Between Maud and the Tatzlwurm it's been a good season for fan fiction fans.
I'm guessing that the reason why Maud behaved in a deliberately-unfriendly fashion (and she did ... she outright challenged them to try to like her) is that -- given her intelligence and monomania, she's had so many bad experiences with trying to be friendly that she's mostly given up on being friendly with anypony who doesn't share her monomania. In other words, I think it was Maud's own fault -- but the Mane Six could have been a bit more observant and tried to engage Maud to speak on her favorite topic of geology.
1967379
Emotionless Girl?
1967430
How so?
1967436
Tropes aren't (always) stereotypes.
1967451
She limited herself to the most superficial statements about geology, to see if they would ask her further questions on the topic. They failed the test.
My wife was, when I first met her, a monomaniac on the subject of animals -- she couldn't like any story -- or really get into any prolonged conversation -- which wasn't in some way about animals. Fortunately, I am fascinated by zoology, so she opened up to me on our first date, which is ultimately why we wound up married. (She's still obsessed with animals -- she's just expanded her interests over the last decade).
I immediately recognized Maud as a monomaniac when I saw the episode, and I was pretty much groaning every time the Mane Six missed her clues. But Maud didn't make it easy on them -- aside from asserting the bare fact of her fascination with rocks, she did not explain why or how she was fascinated with rocks. She was challenging them to ask her more on the topic -- instead, they responded in ways that showed they found it boring.
Twilight, perhaps because she's a cosmopolitan intellectual, came closest to connecting with Maud. Except she didn't like Maud's poetry. She should have tried to talk to her about the meaning of her poems in connection with geology. In the end, Twilight did see that Maud wasn't really emotionless, though.
1967379 That people who are boring on the outside are boring on the inside.
1967497
Ah.
I didn't necessarily see the show as confirming that there's not much going on with Maud.
1967503 True.
1967525
Granted, they did drop the ball pretty significantly in displaying any meaningful character (much less character growth). All we get is that she actually does love Pinkie Pie. Okay. Great.
She loves rocks and Pinkie Pie. What else?
1967503 1967525
Yeah, there may very well be a lot going on with Maud, it's just that it's all about rocks. Which is a subject that may bore a lot of ponies, true, but it's not the same as being boring, if you get the difference.
1967479
Well, you certainly have far more experience than me with monomaniacs, which I would classify Maud as, but I think that your above statement (what I bolded of it) is an assumption or interpretation of her actions on the part of the viewer. In other words, while you do reach that opinion based on real life experience, I would say it carries as much justification as would "She limited herself to the most superficial statements about geology, because she's had bad experiences in the past with turning ponies off of her by going into too much detail on rocks". In other words, without actual knowledge of her motivations, we can only theorize. Though I suppose that's rather obvious, huh?
Anyway, it's certainly an interesting idea, that that's what she was doing. Personally, I'm not sure I agree with it, but really I'd have to think on it more.
The major difference between Quiz and Maud is how they feel about themselves. Maud can't see why Quiz would want to change (she certainly doesn't) and asks why. Quiz knows she's flawed, but had believed she would just have to live with that. She's surprised that self improvement works at all for her.
Change is not for everypony.
1967546
Well, I have to theorize, since the only clear things we know about Maud are (1) she loves geology, (2) she loves Pinkie Pie, (3) she's highly intelligent, (4) she has a very flat affect, and (5) she's super-strong even by Earth Pony standards. But if one considers the effects of being monomaniac on the subject of geology coupled with the likely disinterest that others would show on the topic, a certain defensiveness about her interest would be expected.
My experience with monomaniacs is that -- if you can convincingly express even a casual interest in their favorite topics, the problem isn't getting them to start talking. It's getting them to stop talking.
But then, I like to talk, so that's not a problem for me.
1967452
Well, they're not precisely -- though there is a strong stereotype of the intellectual, emotionless girl that dates back to the notion of "bluestockings" lacking the emotions "appropriate" for women. That particular stereotype goes all the way back to the late18th century, and was being countered even then by the existence of women like Jane Austen.
Incidentally, Twilight Sparkle falls under the same stereotype -- we just get to see enough of her that it's obvious she's passionate rather than emotionless.
1967590
Well see that's so interesting because personally I never read any defensiveness in what she said or did--though perhaps I would? I have only seen it once or twice, after all. Personally, she struck me as someone who simply didn't care whether others were interested in rocks or not, or in her. And of course, I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't theorize. After all, if I thought that, I might as well pack my bags and leave fimfiction haha.
You and your wife sound like quite the match! Does she have a favorite animal, or because of her love for all of them, it's impossible to pick?
Well, I have a new OC to acquaint myself with. Thanks, Bad Horse.
(If you can't tell if I'm being sarcastic or not, don't worry, neither can I.)
1967539
Not unless you mean boring in the sense of drills. In that case, Maud bores like nobody's business.
1967640
The defensiveness lies in the fact that she made no attempt to make her subject interesting to anypony to whom she spoke, even though hers had clear connections with Fluttershy's fascination with zoology (both are natural sciences) and Twilight's general intellectualism (and she made no attempt to explain her poetry, she just presented it flatly). She also didn't try to connect with Applejack despite being kin (she's exactly as related to Applejack as is Pinkie Pie).
The reason people with strong and unusual interests become somewhat defensive about them, unless they are very extroverted, is that they are used to being rejected or ignored when they try to speak about them. Thus they prepare in advance for such rejection.
Rosanna loves domestic cats and felids of all kinds, and she loves birds.
1967640
Please understand: I liked Maud Pie, and if I had been in Twilight's situation, I would have known exactly how to connect with her. It helps that one of the topics I find interesting is geology.
1967666
I'm no psychologist here so bear with me: wouldn't defensiveness be portrayed more through trying to justify your passions to someone and get them to like or approve of them, as opposed to simply tossing them out there, as Maud does?
And nah, I never thought you didn't like her, sorry if I conveyed that feeling. And if it helps, I personally felt I could've done a better job than the mane six did too. To me they weren't very...broad, in their attempts to befriend her. They didn't try enough, or hard enough, or something. Some of them could have formed friendships I feel, but then again, there was a lesson to convey, so there ya go. Subject to the requirements of the plot...or moral. xD
1967688
Maud uses pre-emptive rejection. She throws her obsession right at ponies with no attempt to explain what she finds fascinating about it. The obvious reason is she assumes that they won't like it, so why make the effort to connect?
I am guessing that if one expressed sincere interest back, she would elaborate. She did, after all, bother to recite at least two of her poems from memory to Twilight Sparkle. I'm guessing this because most monomaniacs are very happy to encounter someone else who is interested in their topic.
1967650
If you mean Quiz, this is no hardship. She's quite nice.
1967708
Hmm, good point. And you're right, she did recite some of her poems. She also played hide and seek with her pet rock and the others.
Oh and on the point of your wife: do you guys own a lot of cats and birds then? I've never technically owned any cats, but I gotta admit, I do have a soft spot for the little guys.
1967776
We have four cats. No birds. If we got a bird we would probably get a parrot -- but those are a real responsibility, as the smarter ones are certainly sapient and even the dumber ones are pretty smart animals.
I actually enjoyed Maud for what she was. She isn't a character you'd build a show around (probably), but she was fun in the portion she was served.
Or so says the guy who wrote Maudern Poetry (forgive the pun) for fun, so maybe I'm just overly amused by her.
1967802
If you get a talking parrot, it is your duty to teach it pony words or phrases. Your DUTY. xD
1967650 I think you will find Quiz will grow on you, slowly, like stalagmites. She's has a multi-faceted personality with dichronism polished to a fine luster, a fine specialism of the small friend variety.
I think Maud being uninteresting (to most people) is the point. She shows a few traits of autism, and she seems to match the textbook definition of Asperger's Disorder. It's to show that (1) Pinkie sees much more in the milder personalities than do the others (presumably this is why Pinkie is able to enjoy
Gummy'sMaud's company even when Twilight and friends fail), and (2) you can appreciate someone that you don't find interesting. Neither of these would have worked if Maud was "obviously interesting". Maud being obviously interesting would have made it look like Twilight and friends were in the wrong when really no one was doing anything wrong, except arguably Pinkie.1968371 I'd prefer a story like Quizzical, with a character who appears boring but is interesting, to one that reinforces the idea that somebody who isn't energetic, exciting, and extroverted is boring.
1968381
But that seems so... normal? That everyone is special and interesting is a concept I've gotten a bit too much of through the 90s and 2000s. There are people that do interesting things, and there are people that try hard to live low-key lives. Everyone seems to be able to appreciate the interesting people, but not everyone wants to be that. It's a problem when we have constant reminders that everyone that's appreciated stands out in some way.
I did like the episode, at least partially because it's a break from that idea. Maud doesn't have to be interesting for Pinkie to see something in her, and she definitely doesn't have to be interesting for the rest of the main six to appreciate her.
(I just started reading Quizzical, so I'm making a lot of assumptions. Ignore the next sentence if it doesn't make sense.)
Stories like Quizzical remind me of Tolstoy's glorification of the poor. "These people have something pure inside them that money only ruins." Something like that. It's something to the tune of "People aren't useful unless they're interesting. But wait! Everyone's interesting." It's a notion that successful people can afford to have, and that people who desire to be unremarkable can only view with contempt. It's almost taunting to say that everyone is interesting, in the sense that it tells people that they're somehow less human if they don't want to be interesting.
You want to be interesting, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that story has already been written a million times. There are people that just want to do their own thing, and that seems to be a story people want told. Maud is that story. She's boring, reclusive, and appreciated. To say that she needs to be more exactly contradicts the thing those writers were trying to say. You can disagree with the moral, but it doesn't make sense to say that Maud should have been more interesting.
1968546 I mostly agree with you, as far as Maud, but it points out an aspect of how Maud and Quiz are complete opposites. I make a point in my story of how change is not for everyone - it certainly isn't for Maud. Maud is happy. We can let Maud be Maud.
Quiz doesn't seek change, but unfortunately for her I have stories to tell, so I inflict interesting times upon her. Like Bilbo Baggins, she'll complain that adventures will make her late for dinner, and she dismisses her adventures as 'more like accidents, really,' but she deals. Quiz will sigh, square her shoulders, and quietly begin to work the problem. No mater how many times this happens to her she'll never come to enjoy all the excitement (not when she could be home collating her notes instead). But while all this is going on Quiz does grow and change, and to her great surprise this actually makes her happy. I don't think I'm doing the character a disservice writing her this way.
I think Maud, faced with a potential adventure, would shake her head, say "No thank you," and just walk away.
1968956
I should have said "Stories like Quizzical as the original post makes me think of it". You're right, Quizzical is just different from Maud. I was just disagreeing with the sentiment that Maud should have been written differently.
1970112 I'll sign on with that, Maud is fine as written. She does bother me with some of her behavior being rude, but most of the Mane Six have been thoughtlessly rude just being themselves once or twice. It's not so much bad manners as cluelessness. I think I find this off-putting because Maud is compared to Quiz, and some of her worst behavior would mortify Quiz.
I remember after reading Skittish when it got on EqD, I went to look at JMac's other stories and wasn't amused to see every other story had the same OC main character. I ended up not reading anything else. I don't remember if I even read any summaries, even. I dunno. I guess I have a thing against grey coated OC main characters *coughDottedLinecough*
It seems that I shouldn't have dismissed Miss Quiz, seeing as I really love Maude Pie and now the two are interacting and being compared. Maude is quite fascinating. After reading the first chapter, I find Quiz fascinating and I intend to read more. Rather regret dismissing her in the first place.
I've known a few people in RL who are emotionless voids, monotone in both voice and actions, and languid of movement. Most of them were cynical misanthropists. Some expressed anger prominently when they expressed anything. Some were actually chill, but hid the anger. One made an effort to comprehend people around her, making a few little changes here and there, finding her own little niche. She was genuinely boring though. All were social outcasts.
What can I say? It came with the territory of being gothy.
While I do find that kind of boring to be interesting, I find that it exaggerates a person's other traits to the point that those things make that person even more interesting.
I don't think so. From my own experience with people, Maud is in the same vein, but divergent. She's not snarking, dropping sardonic asides, or some loather of all things around her. She's been compared to Daria, Raven from Teen Titans, Mai from Avatar, and others who fit the trope of emotionless girl. But she's missing certain negative traits of all these characters, forgoing them in exchange for love of all things. Totally in theme with the show.
After spending time with these kind of people and seeing this type of fictional character, Maude comes off as damn refreshing and interesting to me. An emotionless character who doesn't explode in anger when they do show any emotion, but instead expresses love. Fascinating... I think that fights a bit of stereotyping. They were definately going for their own thing when they made Maude.
I wonder if there are other characters who fit the bill of Maude in other works.
Thanks for referring me to Quizzical. The story you linked had a rather contrived plot twist midway through, but I enjoyed it very much.