I'm So Tired Of Grammar (Kinda Ranty) · 8:33pm Feb 3rd, 2014
Seriously, does it ever end? I feel like I work and work and work on it, and there's always more rules. Always some new reason my stories get rejected.
I don't mind the rejections all that much. If a story isn't up to scratch, then it isn't. But it would be nice to feel like I'm making progress. I never do. I feel like I'm just as lost in the grammar sea as I ever was.
And it's all well and good to say that I shouldn't care about acceptance, but that's just not how I'm built. Not only does it keep me motivated, but almost everything that I've written would be unknown if I hadn't have tried to get it into some sort of "exemplary pony fiction" site or group. Most of my stuff had maybe a hundred views before it got onto EQD. It does not sit well with me at all to spend weeks and weeks writing something to have eighty people read it. It doesn't work for me at all.
So I've worked to try and get better, and I have. My stories are much, much better. But my grammar somehow isn't. It probably has to do with my nature. I hate confinement and rules, and I feel like grammar is a tool by which mathmatical people try to understand art. It can be quantified. It can be measured. It has definite rules that can be put in a book.
But grammar is a tool to help make sure that the written word is understandable. It's supposed to help the reader, and I'm good with that. Where I start getting angry is when it's used the other way. The knowledge of grammar is actually taking these readers OUT of the story. If they had no knowledge one way or the other that zig-zag wasn't supposed to have a hyphen, they wouldn't care. However, they DO know that, so they get irritated by it. Or the misplaced comma. Or the smart quote facing the wrong way.
So I will begin again. I will dig back into the rules, read them, and hope to comprehend. But each time I do this, I lose a bit of love for what I'm doing. It's not fun at that point. It's work. But I'm trapped by my own personality, and since I'm not a writing super-genius, it's what I have to do if I want to reach my goals. I just wonder why my goals and my happiness aren't in the same place. If I try and choose one or the other, it ruins both. It's tiring, and I'm starting to feel very worn down.
Weren't ponies meant to be fun? Where did I lose that? I'd love to go back to when I just wrote whatever, but then I see The Carrot Dog Fight of there with its small viewership and I hate that I'm not doing everything I can for it. It represents a lot of work. Not just by me, but several other people. I hate not seeing it thrive.
Maybe I just need a writing vacation.
I think you should just keep writing the way you want to write.
If they can't see a good story for what it is, they shouldn't be reading.
~Skeeter The Lurker
I don't notice grammar errors most the time. Most readers don't. Stories should be entertaining or say something. That is all.
Honestly, I think it's just a matter of concepts. The idea is interesting, but not especially new or bold compared with, say, taking on the challenge of writing Discord's reform from Discord's perspective or having a lot of fun throwing Cheerilee into a bunch of truly horrible dates. You also need to understand not all of your stories are going to be hundreds of likes and thousands of views strong. It's just a writing thing. As for writing grammar, it's not your job to have perfect grammar. That's your proofreader/editor's concern. Your grammar seems more than adequate for what you have to do at this stage in the game.
1792251 Yeah, but I don't see it that way. I think the story is at least as good as Easy as Pie or A Door Jam, but it hasn't been seen. Maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell. However, I have greater faith in that story. It's better than sitting at the bottom of my heap with A Periodic Tale of Elements: Generosity.
If I hadn't of pushed and pushed, that's where almost everything I've written would be, so I have faith that the story is better that middling.
English grammar is a joke that most people miss the punchline of. There are half a dozen schools and a hundred different ways of applying it, and they all have contradictory rules.
Shakespeare made English his bitch and since his day there has been no single 'proper' way of doing it, but that doesn't stop stuck-up arseholes from trying to force their opinionated version of it on others.
EqD is really bad for that disease. Really, really bad...
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Thanks, guys. I don't really mean to be pissy about this stuff. I honestly don't think my stories deserve special treatment or anything. I just believe in them, and I feel like I'm held back by stuff that has nothing to do with what I'm actually trying to accomplish. It's very frustrating.
Grammar is sort of the litmus test of judging amateur writing. If a writer cares enough to have something edited enough to be at the 99% error free state of professional writing, then it's a good bet that they've put a lot of thought into their story.
It's not strictly true, and I'll agree that most of the reviewers out there in the MLP fandom get lost in the grammar sometimes to see the story, but it is as good a place as any to start.
My suggestion would be to get together with someone who does have a good grasp on grammatical rules and iron them out before trying to submit anything anywhere. As annoying as it may be that they place too much emphasis on grammar (and english grammar rules are far too annoying as it is), if you hand them something error-free, there's a much better chance they'll see the story itself.
I also wouldn't stress out too much about numbers on Fimfic. The fandom gets more and more diluted as more and more people try to pile in and publish their fanfic. New stories just plain take longer to build up numbers with more competition out there (regardless of the quality of that competition).
So your tired of grammar huh? Well, I tell you this: try and write fanfics whit English as foregine, and don't even finished 8th grade, then you feel like your drowning in grammar!
I agree with Skeeter and Seether
1792305 somepony has a bone to pick with the english language...
1792309 It's not points, really, though I know it seems like that. I don't care about being famous or that I'm in the top ten or whatever. It comes down to effort. I don't like spending a month writing something, only to have seventy people read it. Maybe that's vain, but it makes me angry. I feel like I wasted my time.
And my issue is that I've been with LOTS of people who are "grammar experts." They comb through my stories and then I send them along to EQD. What do I get back? Five pages of grammar errors and a strike. That isn't hyperbole. That's what I got back on my second strike with A Door Jam. I've played that game many times. I honestly don't know who to trust. I've tried the editing groups here, but they've been a total bust to me.
1792329 I can't even imagine doing that. I'm bad enough at English.
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well, thats what I do, and ir actualy do wonder for my grade in engkish! Bug it becom irritatibg when your supposed to write a story in Swedish!
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A lot of people who claim to be "grammar experts" are not, unfortunately. I would trust the feedback from EQD more, and find someone who can live up to that. Which is not to say that the EQD prereaders won't make mistakes, but in my experience so far, they have stuck to well established and well published rules of grammar.
If in doubt about a grammar rule, google it and get a sampling of several publications on the subject. There were a few grammar rules I couldn't wrap my head around until I read some examples and saw how they fit into a pattern, now they're automatic for me.
1792396 Yup, that's what I need to do. I'm a much better example person. I'll work on that.
1792357 The language is needlessly complicated, backwards, and generally rubbish in terms of grammar. It does produce some of the greatest poetry and emotional imagery, so long as most of the 'rules' are ignored.
Grammar nazis should take up French or German if they want rules that are written in stone.
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iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-lol-no.gif
They once tried to tell me I needed to fix a "run on sentence" by adding in a comma splice. They once told me I needed to decapitalize the "Princess" in "Princess Celestia". Any decent proofreader group is every bit as trustworthy as them without half the pretentiousness.
1792299 I honestly felt like those stories had a bit more to them, character-wise. Maybe it's just because of their interaction aspects. I also found them more relevant to canon. This story feels more like "What Happened To The Orange Frog", a funny, slightly random add on. It was not bad by any means, but it also wasn't relevant to the show to that large of a degree. The best part by far was Spike thinking of how Rarity would want him to act in that situation. Maybe that would be the big thing there? I dunno.
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Of course, man.
I do what I can.
~Skeeter The Lurker
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Like I said, I don't trust them not to make mistakes any more than I trust anyone else not to make mistakes. The key is not to follow their (or anyone's) advice blindly, but to look at what they point out, figure out if it is a mistake, and figure out what the best way to correct it is.
THIS. This this this this this. I'm going to post links to this a bunch of places because it explains exactly how I feel.
1792617 I'll agree to that, just not to them being the best source of grammar. I have never gotten an EqD submission back from one of the authors I edit for without a grammar error being suggested in place of the proper grammar. So while they do give some good advice, it's usually not worth the being sneered at.
1792721 "Being sneered at" is so apt. I've gotten some really great feedback from EQD, but man, have I also gotten some that made me want to punch the living shit out of the person who sent it.
Firstly, it is really tiresome to check grammar errors and see one after the other no matter how many times you go over the darn thing.
Secondly, i agree this squabbling amongst ourselves does ultimately impact our enjoyment of the fandom.
Thirdly, if they disallow a story for grammar problems, then they are not supporting the medium. doubt EQD was that picky when it started out. The hall of fame there is honestly boring. FIM is frankly bigger for avid readers!
I'll try editing. You know I caught a lot of stuff last time :D
1793440 I think I have all the hyphen sorted out. What I'm struggling with are coordination conjunctions and subordinate conjunctions.
I'm planning on printing these out tomorrow and trying to hammer this stuff into my brain, I honestly cannot stand it. I'm trying to turn my attitude around on it, but the other part of my brain is screaming "What the fuck does it matter?! Everyone understands the sentence!"
But if you want to take a look at it, be my guest. I'll take any help I can get.
I've turned on comments here, so you can note anything that you see.
The Carrot Dog Fight
Did you look at the 'Royal Guard' ? They're doing the exact same thing EQD is... so I'm not even gonna try anymore.
Also? The way the system is set up now means that there's no chance for your story to get featured a second time if it's younger than mid 2013 for some reason... so this is going to make things even more reliant on those kind of groups... Which will probably see me forgo writing for the fandom any longer. I hate all of them, and refuse to be told what I can and cannot do if I can write stories that even non-bronies seem to enjoy.
1794825 The Royal Guard is where this last rejection came from. It caught me totally off guard because I thought their whole mission was to put the story FIRST, rather than the grammar. But then my story got rejected with this big list of tiny grammar errors that don't hamper the story in the least. At least, no one has reported previously that they have. But yeah, huge list of errors, not one word about the actual story. It's pretty disappointing. I thought they were trying for something different than EQD, but it appears they are trying to be the same thing, only with more pre-readers.
I have six stories on EQD with the grammar that I've used in this story, so it means the The Royal Guard is even MORE focused on grammar than EQD is...
1792671 Well, I'm glad I can express what you are feeling, but it sucks that you are feeling that way, too.