Why Fanfiction IS Literature... · 7:50pm May 4th, 2013
...and How Can We Encourage Authors to Be Better
A rhetorical question for authors: Why would you choose to write fanfiction instead of your own ‘original’ story?
Is it because you find it easier to play around with pre-made characters and settings? Or perhaps they simply inspire you to write more of their adventures? Maybe you just need to practice to pursue a career in writing?
Whatever your reason, you have sat down and pumped out presumably at least a thousand words for your first chapter (or prologue, which happens to be a different thing, but I digress). And then you send it over to be published.
Now, you are one of two types: You care about what you wrote or you don’t.
If you care about what you write, you will (hopefully) take encouragement from honest reviews, constructive criticism and also inspiration from other good works. You will endeavor to improve, but even then, you might be assaulted by the same doubt that presumably can affect those that don’t care: is it worth it?
If you’re the second case, then you might have reasons for not caring, although one has to wonder why you should spend time writing something you don’t appreciate and expect people to read it, but I am digressing again.
Going back to that. You don’t care. Or you might think it’s not worth the effort in the end. Why? Is it because you think fanfiction is not worthy of a real effort? Contrary to what you might think, I can see why you would think so. Really.
Fanfiction is constantly assaulted and condemned and mocked by people who apparently know better (but more often than not can’t write a story to save their lives.) You are incessantly bombarded with remarks about how ‘unoriginal’ it is, and how you should be writing your own, ‘original’ stories instead.
What these people fail to understand is that fanfiction is Literature. It is original, in its own way, and it certainly is creative. Sure, it definitely is derivative (which doesn’t mean it’s automatically unoriginal) and you’re playing around with other people’s ideas.
But that’s the story of fiction and Literature in general. This isn’t even a matter of what is original or not. I’m not going to rely on that long-abused statement that ‘nothing is original’ (which is bs anyway).
All works of Literature are derivative in some way. Parody and satire being the most obvious examples. Some are nothing more than retellings of old stories, long part of our literary cultural identity. Journalistic novels are little more than an in-depth, sometimes fantastical, mostly fictional, account of something that happened in the news. Biographies are hardly original, nothing more than pointing out the day to day experiences of a famous person, and the odd little exciting thing that happened to mold them into what they are today.
Does that make them any less? Of course not. Is it any less original in the grand scheme of things? Nope. Because originality is not in the bottom line of the story; it’s on how you tell it. That little twist that only you can give it.
It’s all fanfiction. Really. fanfiction about a political situation? Satire.
Fanfiction about yourself? Biography.
Fanfiction about vampires, ghosts, werewolves, and all other critters? Supernatural Horror
Fanfiction about the police and CSIs? Mystery/Police.
Fanfiction about historical figures? Historical Fiction
Self-insert fanfiction about myths, mysteries and conundrums? The Da Vinci Code
So what’s the big difference?
The big difference is that in your case it’s not professional. And that means, that you don’t get paid for it, although taking commissions for fanfiction does open a new can of worms about that. If people are willing to pay for it, does it remain a fanfic? Or does it become a professional work?
Anyway...
Fanfiction is literature with a tragic, often-misunderstood name to the point that people have made movie deals out of simply editing their fanfics and changing the character names. Just take a look at this list: http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/21872.Pulled_to_Publish_Fan_Fiction
It’s not even about quality, really. ‘Fifty Shades’ is hardly good literature on any level. Hell, it’s not even a decent fic. However people will buy it and be amazed and gasp at just how daring it is! Wow. Look! He tied her up! Sexy.
What does that teach us? That people will buy anything and read anything under the pretense that it’s actually original.
How many people do you think would read Fifty Shades but be dismissive about Twilight fanfiction? I would bet a huge margin of them. If I had the time, I would actually do interviews to people that are reading the series just to see how many out of a hundred would read fanfiction.
Where does that leave the original authors, their protected rights, the freedom of writing fics and the status of fanfiction as an actual example of literature? There are paranoid authors out there that feel that fanfiction deprives them of money they would be earning otherwise. They are completely dismissive and contemptuous of fanfiction as something not worth pursuing and little better than theft... but of what? Their intellectual property? Couldn’t we argue that the fact that they see fanfiction as a threat is an indicator that they perceive fanfiction authors as equals?
Of course, it is somewhat silly to fear that fanfiction will steal money from them, or that people will confuse their intellectual property. fanfiction by definition acknowledges that it is a product derived from the original material; that it is NOT in fact approved, or even recognized by the original author.
Seldom does the fanfiction author have any interest in pursuing something more than a ‘what if’ that is ultimately inconsequential to the original author’s idea, but we are viewed by some as intellectual thieves of the worst kind, abusing character archetypes—I mean, original characters, by giving their unique names and attributes to half-thought, often-abandoned works of authorial adoration.
Because, really, the fanfiction author who believes herself to be Anne Rice has more pressing issues to deal with than whether the real Anne Rice approves of writing fanfiction about her stories or not. (Hint: it’s the type of issue that requires treatment.)
But, exploring that fear... that indirect acknowledgement of the powers of fanfiction as a medium to tell stories and create scenarios and draw readers, we can surmise that there is more to it than what the general populace, and we, the fanfic authors perceive.
Fanfiction IS Literature. And like all the books out there, there are jumps in quality that make you ask yourself what the hell the publishers were thinking when they allowed a particular work of fiction to be published.
Fanfiction is dismissed because the bad wins the war of attrition against the good. (It’s exactly like the Romance section in the bookstore.) Chances are, if you read a random fic, it’s going to stink. From plot to grammar, from dialogue to description. You have to be very, very lucky to hit the ‘good’ fic just like that. And unlike published books, it’s hard to find reliable recommendations to help you skip the crap... unless you’re already involved in the fanfiction community. It’s a bit of a Catch 22, really, you’re screwed either way.
With no measure or guarantee of quality; with no reliable ‘unbiased’ critics, the average person will find themselves lost in a veritable ocean of literary refuse. Waves of half-assed efforts will crush them with the exponential weight of misused words, cliches and paragraphs upon paragraphs of offal.
It would be beautiful if it were not so detrimental to Literature in general.
The sad truth is, such filters don’t exist with a consistency that will safeguard the casual web surfer from a horrific encounter with something that will make them stay away from fanfiction forever.
There is no Borders (RIP) employee that will caution them to the questionable contents of a particular story nor is some of it required reading at school.
It could be said that places like Equestria Daily, which does NOT focus on fanfiction and yet publishes some ‘approved’ and ‘pre-read’ stories are a good place to start... if you’re into ponies that is... and yet, sometimes it seems like the actual prerequisite is that the grammar is pristine... regardless of how inane or cliched the story itself is.
No system is infallible, and the pre-readers of any site that archives stories for free will all agree that it is impossible to find a real standard of what a good story is, especially for such an ungrateful job that is done for free. However, thanks to their efforts, the chances of finding something that is not—at the very least—offensive on all levels, is increased.
Even the relative ‘fame’ of a story is deceptive: sometimes mediocrity is celebrated to the extent that authors are encouraged to keep writing what amounts to drivel for the enjoyment of people that simply have no taste.
Stories with no correction or effort are hailed as shining examples of the genre by individuals who cannot capitalize the beginning of a sentence.
Plots, used, reused and most certainly abused are produced en masse by unwitting beginners or experienced underachievers who feed a horde of what amounts to empty-minded buffoons the exact, same, crap the other wannabe authors did.
Cliched nightmares of little-to-no content are used as comparison points to stories that actually have effort put into them.
Individuals that have no intention of even correcting their own grammatical and stylistic mistakes are honored by the words of equally grammatically-inept readers who leave several comments praising poorly constructed stories... getting ‘the feels’ because a character lets loose a single tear in an otherwise emotion-sterile scene.
People who feel that a constructive comment or review is an attempt at ‘trolling’ them and think that they are being attacked or their freedom of speech questioned because they believe they have no responsibility to what they write.
Some even claim that writing is a lesser art; that they only do it because they don’t have the talent to draw or create music, and therefore, their lack of effort is justified in their eyes. And this opinion is fed by the perception that fanfiction is nothing to be proud of.
These are the people that create the illusion that fanfiction is not literature. Even the ‘original authors’ that try to dismiss it treat it with a wary fear and respect. But when they suggest users to play in their own yard to become ‘real authors’, they don’t address the fact that thinking of writing as an ‘easy art’ is detrimental for all literature.
You cannot become a ‘real’ author if you aim for mediocrity and it is a fact that what you write on the internet pretty much remains there ‘till the end of time. Years might pass before you look back on what you wrote and then you’ll cringe. Or at least you should, if you never attempted to improve.
The mission to better fanfiction in general is not the author’s responsibility alone, though.
The one advantage we have over professional fiction is the amazing amount of interaction we have with our readers, but they also need to be more discerning about what they choose to hail as ‘great’. A story doesn’t have to be perfect to be ‘good’ or ‘enjoyable’ but mediocrity and lack of effort should not be encouraged.
Honestly, there is a lot of people who are unwilling to take advice or to listen to constructive criticism even if they don’t do anything about it. But you, as a reader, should not conform to substandard writing. The less you glorify mediocrity, the less it will come up, because those authors that can’t be bothered to try and improve will not have an audience that will put up with it.
If you find a story with potential, but the grammar, composition, characterization and everything else (other than the potential) sucks, you should tell the author both things. Tell them the good: that their story seems original and has promise, but don’t forget the bad: that they NEED to step up their game if they want you and other readers to continue following their story and any future efforts.
You don’t have to be rude about it, but you should be able to be direct. Don’t mince words to the point that they lose their meaning just because an author says it’s ‘their first story’. First stories are there to be destroyed, most of the time. It’s the lessons learned from them that will make those authors great, not the empty compliments of incompetent readers.
Authors need a thick skin. It’s a fact of life, and being too kind in the comments and critiques is damaging to an author.
So readers... learn to read. Learn the actual, honest difference between a good story and a bad one. Learn. To. Read. Dammit.
Don’t tell a person that has one chapter of utter nonsense that he’s great. That’s not helping them or you. You want better fanfiction? Well, step up your game and recognize what is crap and make sure you don’t support that. Don’t give praise to a story simply because you like the theme. That’s not a good enough reason if everything else is absolute hogwash.
Again, fanfiction is literature! So don’t forget that quality is just as important as what you would get in a book you purchased. Helping raise the standards is not a bad thing, and while new authors might not have amazing writing skills, your honest and—more importantly—educated opinion can do wonders for them.
Fanfiction can only be respected as far as you—author or reader—respect it. There are works out there that honestly surpass published material and people treat them as worthless.
For the last time: fanfics are Literature and should be treated as such. Just like there are crap books out there, there are crappy fics that should have never seen the light of day, but that doesn’t make them any less valuable than an original story attempt, because they are original story attempts.
So think about that next time you sit down to read or write your fan fic, and ask yourself this: are you treating it with the respect you afford other written works?
If not, it’s about time you do.
Well, I for one write plenty of other stuff about ponies, and I think fanfiction is just as important as real writing. As a published author, I know there is a bit of a difference between serious writing and fanfiction, but it's not a big difference. Fanfiction and serious writing are both done because WE LOVE TO WRITE. We write because WE ARE GOOD AT IT (eh, with exceptions.)
I'd love to share more of my non-pony writing, but unfortunately can't find any good sites like this to post it on (especially since I'm a bit protective of my work).
I do both fanfiction and original works, actually. I find that writing one compliments and enhances my writing of the other.
1054346
le gasp. you're everywhere.
Wow... that was one long and good text...
I don't really have anything else to say because you pretty much said everything that was needed. Damn D, "u gud dood".
Edit:
Writer: "Wait! I have something to say!"
Main personality: "Oh ok, go ahead..."
---
I have written small novels and little essay-styled "shorties" enough to know, that writing fanfiction is hard. Sometimes even harder than original stories. It's really hard to make the character be like he/she/it would really be, unless the character happens to have some sort of mental break-down and starts to wreck yo' shit and so on...
But in original stuff... oh man I could come up with an original idea right now, it just would not be that good because I'd still need time to design the scenery etc. ya know... all the stuff.
I am not a writer really, but my imagination is all I need to create some actually pretty good stuff. That's why comics are my ace, telling the story with pictures is more simple to me, and actually to pretty much everyone.
---
Main personality: "Done?"
Writer: "Yuh..."
pfffffffffhahaha
Also, all of my this to this post. Fanfiction is great because I love seeing all the different ways people take the same story and the same characters and develop them further, especially in this fandom. It does suck to see people write and post crap, get comments praising the crap (that they immediately respond to positively), but the minute a comment with crit appears they freak out going WELL I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT, IT'S JUST A FANFIC, BLAH BLAH. Why bother, indeed.
All in all, excellent post.
1054354 Ditto on everything Dancer said.
If anybody gives me excuses as to why they won't improve, I'll just link them to this.
FINALLY, somebody realizes this!
Everything is fan fiction, whether it's called that or not.
In my English class recently, we got into a discussion on how most stories borrow from the same ideas. A good example of this is the idea of the "Hero's Journey," which is used in the Oddysey, the Bible, and more recently, the Matrix. No, seriously.
This theory is also called monomyth, and it was coined by Joseph Campbell in the 1940's.
Indeed, these are true words. Giving feedback is extremely important, and it would help if people would give honest and respecting feedback. Instead of a 'good work
!' Anyways, I'm glad you took the time to buff out a general guideline for both readers and writers. Although how many do you think will actually start doing this?
To be fair, the reason fiction authors are sometimes paranoid about Fanfic is because there HAS been legal trouble with it in the past.
Fanfiction authors have sued in the past over "stolen" ideas. I don't know if any of them won, but it doesn't matter since a legal battle means the author lost something anyway. Ultimately, if something LOOKS like it might infringe, you have to fight it, otherwise you can lose your copyright on something. Fanfic isn't usually a problem, but you really can't blame some of the authors for being paranoid, especially if they have a good thing going.
The best examples I can think of as to why come down to old, old authors.
H.P. Lovecraft: Allowed the publishing of derivative works willy nilly, never made a damn penny.
Arthur Conan Doyle: Defended Holmes legally as much as he possibly could, kept a stranglehold on his property. Died wealthy.
Sire, you have my "Damn that pavé is supremely inspiring!'
The problem does owe a lot to professional/amateur snobbery, true, but it also combines with the misconception that writing itself is the easiest of the arts: after all, we use language all the time, so why shouldn't it be? Trouble is, it sure as heck isn't easy, so people are engaged in a massive delusion: thinking it's easy to write, belittling those who can't even do it right as though they were extraordinarily incompetent, and denying or suppressing any information that suggests it isn't as easy as they thought.
Sir Terry Pratchett on the subject of writing:
I think this is why fanfiction, alone among fan works, is singled up for opprobrium. If someone's not good at drawing, then people would just seek out those who are good at it and acknowledge that not everyone - themselves included - can draw very well. But a bad writer of fanfiction is treated as though they were given a lower standard and then failed to meet even that, because the critics think virtually anybody can write - themselves included - which is simply incorrect.
Thank you, Deleteh, for writing this. Now if only we can show this to the people who don't care and FORCE them to read this...
Did you read this? I've been spamming it everywhere for a while, it wouldn't surprise me if you had seen it at least once.
But yes, fanfiction is literature and, when you get down to it, literature is all fanfiction of something that came before. There are crap writers, there are good writers, the only way to find the good ones ultimately is word of mouth and that requires us to read. If we want good literature we have o read, even if it means letting our eyes wander over the occasional stinker.
Damn, 'twas good.
Ever since I found Fimfiction, I think I've read more Pony fics than I've read actual books. I have been spending a hellova lot of time here, and i intend to spend much more time here.
Art is, to me, an expression of thought and emotion; showing your ideas and tidbits of your mind to other people through whatever medium you choose to use.
Art - A picture can be simple and incredibly powerful, telling a story with nothing but the difference between where the colours are black and white, and where the colours are red, blue, green and more.
Music - Of all the mediums perhaps the most simple, but not the easiest as all are equally difficult. The tune of a single note, high or low, can affect the mind of a person. It can invoke sadness or happiness, epic feelings, joy and hope.
Words - Looked down upon by many, but sometimes the most powerful of them all. The happy thoughts can be mixed with heart wrenching sadness, make anger course through our body and make us jump from sheer expectations as we wait for the next chapter of our favourite story. It is the longest and most time consuming of the three here, and one I believe deserves more respect than it currently receives.
Fanfic authors are as much artists as the ones animating pictures or composing songs. We have only chosen a different way to express ourselves.
I'm glad that I can usually pick out good stories to read. I've had remarkably few bad experiences. The most notable exception being "The Party Hasn't Ended", which was 56,037 words of pure drivel. The sad/depressing part is, it has a ratio of 679 to 24 (I'm actually proud to say that I'm part of the 24.) I really wish that I could've posted some sort of constructive criticism, but... I was far too angry. Just thinking about it now, I'm getting mad at the colossal waste of time. On the up side, it somehow managed to inspire an amazing song...somehow.
I have but one thing to say to this blog post: Amen!
This blogpost just earned you some major respect from me. I feel at times you have been a bit too... canterlot noble-ish when it comes to fan fiction (no offense), but I have always respected you as a writer. Reading this however, has helped me to understand why you feel the way you do, and why it is important for us to demand higher quality from the writers we follow. It lets me know that I'm doing the right thing by bringing to light some of the mistakes and shortcomings of other people's stories, as well as accepting criticism of my own.
I have always tried to be very polite with my criticism, most people accept it willingly, some get offended. I have honestly felt bad about some of the more sensitive writers whose works I have given light suggestions on... so I started becoming more complacent with my criticism. It's nice to know that someone out there will take a stand for fan fiction, and do what they can to help us all improve the quality of the writing we share on this website, and others. I'm also happy to know that I am one of those people, and we can make a difference. Thanks for posting this one up D, it is nice to see there are folks out there who have a passion for what they do.
Good post, D. I made a similar point on a podcast a week or so ago about John Milton's Paradise Lost, which is considered one of the staples of English literature and among the greatest poems ever written.
It's also pretty clearly a straight-up Bible fan fiction. I'd go so far as to say it's a cliche fanfiction.
Think about it. Milton decides he wants to write the tragic backstory of a villain who was banished by god for attempting to rebel. He gives the villain noble motives, and traces the story of his rebellion and eventual defeat.
Does this remind you of anything? Perhaps a thousand or so fanfics about Luna's rebellion against Celestia?
So anyway, fanfiction can clearly be literature. Every time I walk past a Christian bookstore, I'm walking past millions of words of bible fanfiction. The Lightning Thief? Greek mythology fanfiction. Grass for his Pillow? Japanese mythology fanfiction.
The distance between what we write, here on FimFic, and what gets published for the mass market is mostly a question of quality and subject. For quite a few authors, there's no difference in quality, just subject.
Can I make a confession? My original reasons for writing MLP fiction were entirely mercenary. I watched a few episodes and decided I liked them. I went to EqD and realized what a huge, huge market there was for MLP fiction. I remembered that I enjoyed writing, but it was always tough to find readers.
Suddenly, there was a solution. My first MLP story, Maiden Flight, was a 4k slice-of-life story that's rather amateurish by my standards today, but within 24 hours of appearing on EqD had more views and comments than anything else I'd ever written put together. I guess you could say I write MLP fanfiction for the community.
The fact that it's given me an opportunity to hone my writing skills is a nice side benefit.
I never really thought of vampire/werewolf stories to be fanfiction of horror, neither did I think of the other examples you put up there. An interesting thought though, quite an enjoyable one too.
All in all I think it was an inspiring read Wanderer, and with that I am done lazing about for now, far too many days I just skip writing anything at all. About time I start trying to fix that I figure.
I read through all of this and enjoyed the hell out of it. I, however, have two things to address:
First, as an author, I'd be very prickly about anyone making fanfiction of my particular ideas. I appreciate the compliment implied but will forever resent that my ideas are being diluted through the work of someone who may not understand them or simply doesn't care to. To take an example from my more well-known and widely-read work on FimFiction (which recently got a new chapter, yay), I'd get very twitchy about someone trying to write the character of Spite without bothering to understand her place in the wider universe, her past deeds, and her relations to other major people in her universe. It's like a gifted painter having to watch the work they spent 10 year on copied, chopped up into random pieces, and put in a "modern" art installation glued in a random fashion to a length of pipe. It does no damage to the artist or their original work, but it's painful to see control over their ideas ripped out of their hands and used in a way that humiliates them because people might recognize the wreck of their work in the other "artist's" trash.
The second thing I'd say is that I will never have the level of respect for my fanfiction (and even less for the clop I may try to write sometime) that I do for my original work. The fanfiction will always be a tribute building on the work of someone that's not me, and the fact of the matter is that it'll always be a collaboration of sorts between me and someone who may not even know who I am, and may not want me playing with their toys (the last concern is why I asked your approval before starting Game of Worlds, Wanderer D). As such, I can never honestly claim to have created it or exercised any particular skill in making it my own; the only possible way i could is to distort and twist the original author's work so much that it bears no resemblance to their piece of fiction. Granted, I do that if I want to entertain myself by putting a work through my mental shredder and utterly remaking it in my own image, but I would never publish such a thing because it's malicious vandalism to amp up my abundant schadenfreude. In other words, I respect my work and recognize that fanfiction isn't entirely my work.
I write because as time goes on, ideas take form in the form of dreams, or more often than not, nightmares. I write stories of my own grandeur, however, to put it bluntly, they suck.
I use Fanfics as a way to get my writing skills up for when I decide to write REAL novels. I aspire to be a novelist one day, and I hope that maybe people will enjoy my original works as well as my ponywords.
Amen.
You certainly know how to make a come back.
You literary blew the joint here.
I love you (homo, non-homo - whichever you prefer).
By Starswirl's beard, so many points in there, so many observant remarks, so many theses I agree with (and, of course, a few which I don't
).
I have to admit that I haven't read a proper essay (or do you call it a short treatise in English?) since high school (which I don't even remember how long ago was
). It sure brings back memories. 
Thank you.
Most of it seems to be cheesy romance, though I guess that kind of makes sense since a handful of them used to be Twilight fanfiction.
TL;DR
My input: I try and take the world I'm in, and make it my own. Expand on the universe, or do other such things until it can still be recognized as copyright, but you can have a unique footprint.
Although I haven't written anything yet. My outlook is that almost all ideas are derivative of some inspiration. With fanfiction we can write directly within our sphere of inspiration without the need to transition that inspiration into an equally derivative, but more detached, work.
The way I look at it is that you can write whatever you wish for any reason you want, but when you publish something you are now writing for an audience and have an obligation to that audience. It's like Trixie. You can perform for your own ego or whims, but performing for others requires you put entertaining the audience first to be successful. Getting sidetracked into performing selfishly results in failure.
I agree with this so much. I love EqD and respect what they do, and praise them for getting it right more often than not. But in all seriousness, I would rather read a great story with acceptable grammar and writing than a mediocre story with perfect grammar and writing. These are stories not essays and I am disheartened every time I see a fantastic story that would be a boon to the fic community to have featured yet is rejected solely on mild technical issues that in no fathomable way detract from the experience of reading the story.
Just wanted to object here. I know what you mean but the way this is phrased make me feel the need to point out that there is a distinction between a mediocre effort that is and is not entertaining. I have read several fics that, while they could be improved with more time and effort, and the plots are less than inspired, they have high entertainment value despite these shortcomings, even thought their "literary appeal" is borderline nonexistent. Because I may be a discriminating reader, but I am here to be entertained, first and foremost.
Now I know you address this later in teh post but I should also point out that "mediocrity" is variable. Some authors write rather well with little effort and simply don't bother to have their work proofread. Others write rather badly even with immense effort and simply do not want to put that level of effort into something they wrote for fun. Neither of which I agree with, just illustrating the point.
See, this is why, when I comment on a fic, I place absolute emphasis on whether my opinion is a subjective one, based on how I related and felt about what I read, or an objective one, based on detached observations of what was written and how it was presented, backed by how I genuinely reacted to these things.
Most readers likely do not bother making this internal distinction. Automatically assuming a story is "good" if they like it and "bad" if they do not, determining that any issue that did not directly impact their enjoyment is not one worth addressing.
On a 2nd note, one of the most disheartening things I run across are fandumb readers who actually attack other readers' comments which contain critical tones or criticism.
I cannot count how many times I have engaged in a critical debate with an author (regarding anything other than simple typos) and been jumped upon by other readers and called a whiner, a hater, or told to keep my opinions to myself and just downvote and move along if I didn't like a story. Seriously. Not helping.
See, a lot of the stigma is actually due to not just the quality, but the content of the stories. The perception of "Most fanfics are about taking 2 characters, shipping them, and then writing them into a cliched plot with lots of sex." Which is not 100% accurate but not 100% incorrect either.
1054369
Well there is a big difference between allowing others to profit from your IP and allowing others to "play" with it.
1054377
This is completely true and something I have lost sight of occasionally myself.
However. It is incredibly difficult to, from an outside perspective, determine if an author has written badly because writing is hard and they tried their best but are not very good at it, or because they refused to bother making an actual effort.
1054432
Yes well there is obviously a difference between offering objective constructive criticism and berating an artist.
But there is a difference between drawn art and literature. If someone critiques a painting, it is something you can take to heart and apply to future projects. If someone critiques writing, it can be tweaked and edited on the spot. You can make far far more immediate use of criticism as a writer than as a painter.
But as I mentioned above, your motivations for creating art are your own, but when you publish that art, you are now serving an audience, and your personal motivations are, unfortunately, irrelevant at that point.
1054501
Nothing you ever write will be entirely your work. All inspiration is derivative of something. Fanfiction merely allows us to create something directly within our source of inspiration without detachment.
@Wanderer D
That's quite the outpouring of words you have up there. I have to say that it comes quite close to being a rant. Which is to say that I think it could use some more structure in the service of conveying your point. At present, it feels a bit like a jumbled collection of semi-coherent thoughts.
1054346
Pfft. Fanfiction is as much real writing as anything else. If anything distinguishes them from each other, it is, at the least, the fact that what a paid author chooses to write tends toward what will make money not just what they want to write. I can't imagine what kind of soulless, braindead person would write something they don't want to write when there is zero compulsion for them to do so.
P.S.
I think there is something inherently wrong with an author proposing that a fanfiction is "stealing" unspent money. from them. It's not their money until someone gives it to them. If someone is more interested in fanfic than the original, what does that say about the author of the original? ( note: that's kind of an open-ended question). It's awfully controlling to expect people to grant you full control over what they read and any particular basic idea. It's not like the fanfic author is copy-paste'ing your actual work and reselling it as theirs or without having an agreeement with you; at least that isn't the case in most cases.
1054361
There's a problem with your thinking; the Bible is not a story in the same sense as the Odyssey, or the Matrix. Further it was not written to be an epic or a fanciful retelling. As an aside I find it funny that 'bible' means book -- http://etymonline.com/?term=bible, and in German it would be 'Heilige Schrift' for 'holy writing'. I won't go into it here, but much of it is history, focused thought it may be on certain events. I emphasize 'much' because there are some parts that appear to be poetry and psalms (the book) is quite clearly not entirely a literal history. It also predates both the Illiad and the Odyssey and is not intended as myth.
You should be careful when you say 'used' about a theory which describes what appears to be a common structure in various texts. Just because examples of a concept can be seen in a book does mean that it was used. If I tell a story, that happens to be true, and later someone determines that it exemplifies their theory it doesn't mean that I used some technique.
Thank you for saying this, D.
1054795
"Used" is ambiguous as far as whether a device, technique, or concept was consciously or unconsciously deployed. People use their stomachs to digest their meals, even if they have no idea what happens to food after they've swallowed it. Depending on Tech Specs' meaning, your critique is either valid or invalid.
Also, at the risk of starting a flame war, the Bible is not mostly history. It is an anthology of stories, treatises, letters, and poems of varying quality, written for various purposes, which were accumulated over several centuries from various writers and compilers, and few of which have a particularly strong claim to being historically plausible recountings of past events.
1054572
Not from a one-off, natch. The more works produced, though, the more obvious either trend would become over time. An earnest writer can only be told so many times about a recurrent flaw before it starts to stick, but a lazy one is not going to improve much, if at all.
I agree. Everything you said is correct.
Actually, I didn't read more than like five paragraphs into it, because it seems like the same rant you've been on like ten times before. Except I already agree with it, so I don't really need to be convinced.
TLDR: Cool story, bro.
i.imgur.com/FA0Cw.gif
Fanfiction is Literature indeed. I tip my hat to you D! Great post!
Oh, and welcome back. I hope you got done, all you needed to do.
1054900
First, with respect to 'used': You can't "unconsciously" deploy a technique, device, or concept. If you did so before it was codified or without knowledge of it you have found the notion yourself in a way. I'm not sure that analogy works, but then I'm not entirely certain I follow it.
I'm certainly not going to start a flame war over this, and I hope to leave it at this. Put simply, I disagree. I'm not sure how you define history, because a significant chunk of the old testament is history -- in the sense of a retelling of some event. Just because it doesn't convey every single detail or come at it from every possible angle does not make it not history. Feel free to clarify what your definition of 'history' is, preferably by PM (since want an endless comment dispute here would be even further off topic). That it's books were written by various writers is, on it's own, irrelevant, because humans don't live forever. I'm not sure what these various purposes are that you obviously believe there to be... Really I'd have to ask whether you've even read the book. Anyway, I'll leave it at that.
The type that wants to be popular and liked.
The type that wants their story to be successful in their fandom.
The type who wants to entertain people rather than just themselves.
The type that wants to learn to write marketable fiction.
The type who understands that once you publicly publish something for an audience you are now responsible for upholding the trust and expectations of that audience.
I think it can be a matter of taste. Some people like an IP but with a tweaked setting or characterization they like it more.
Then again there are people who legitimately enjoy grimdark, shipping, and clop fics over the original show. It's not that the fic authors did better than the show writers, it's that these people have eccentric tastes.
LIke more =/= better.
I want to show this to my English teacher.
"Fanfiction is not a real medium of writing and can not be used for a book report" my arse.
I actually wrote one for Fallout Equestria and she refused to accept it even though she took one from a guy who wrote one for grade school level picture book!
Fan-fiction is a new way of reading and writing. It's not just stories; it's an infrastructure and a community. Readers and writers interact in a way that has never happened before.
In print, you spend two months writing a story, a month workshopping it, four months sending it around to magazines, four months waiting for it to be printed, and three months later, if you're lucky, someone somewhere will write a one-paragraph review of it. More likely you will never hear from anyone who read it, and will never know how many people read it or whether anyone other than the editor who bought it liked it.
Fan-fiction lets authors be in touch with their readers for the first time. You can get an idea on Friday, post it on Sunday, and have thousands of views and a hundred comments by Tuesday. You'll probably get more readers. (The # of people reading fim-fiction is about the same as the number of people reading all science fiction magazines combined!) You can see how many people read each chapter, how many of them liked it, & what they thought of it. You can change it & see the reaction. We learn much, much faster than authors can in print.
My friends ask me why I don't submit to print magazines, and I say, with all those advantages on the side of fan-fiction, and nothing on the side of print fiction except for a measly few hundred bucks a story, why on earth would I want to publish in print instead?
We're going through a transitional period, where fan-fiction is the ugly stepchild. But literary fiction is going to become more like fanfiction, not the other way around. Reading used to be a solitary activity, a one-way communication from author to reader. It's not going to be that anymore, not once people have seen that reading can be not just an activity, but a community.
1054369 To be fair, H.P.'s genre of writing was not very popular at the time. In fact, he became famous AFTER his death. He didn't care about people using some of his ideas because he was part of a very small group of authors who wrote weird fiction, much darker than his contemporary competitors. The Shadow or Doc Savage were hardly remotely as dark. Now, compare it to a very accessible genre, which is the Detective Story... and there's no chance in hell.
1054377
Indeed.
1054378 You can always link them!
1054379 Yes! I love that post. I linked it here a while ago.
1054427 In the end, even if the original intent was attention, very few (if any) can argue with the fact that your stories since then are great pieces of work, and that you have improved and made the effort to achieve that improvement.
1054432 There's two things inherently wrong with that tumblr. The statement anon made, and the reply. The point is, you DO need a thick skin. It doesn't mean you shouldn't care, it just means that you should realize that there are people who will NOT like your work. It doesn't make you more of an artist if you can, but you will be stunted if you let the hate put you down and ignore the good. Which the reply completely ignores. The guy that replied just ranted away at the injustice of a harsh and possibly malicious criticism, but he doesn't address the fact that that is EXACTLY what you need to learn to ignore. When you put stuff on the internet to be viewed, you are not protected by anything. Basically, you posted your thing and now people will either like it or not. And you have to be aware of that when you do so, and you should not simply comply to haters, but you do need to learn how to ignore them if you hope to improve.
1054501
And that's exactly it: you respect your work, to different degrees, but that's fine. You don't have to see it as equal things, but the respect is there and that is what separates you from those that seek to maintain mediocrity.
1054546 That's cool, but it doesn't really have much to do with the blog XD
1054722
...but... it IS a rant.
1055065 Do it. Your professor is tied up to the old expectations of what is and what isn't Literature. This is a medium of communication and writing. That's a fact. In fact, you can just point to what 1055203 said. So much truth just in one comment!
1055561 But what if i want to Zelda them instead? Or Ganon them? I mean, it's not called the Legend of LINK. So why does everyone LINK people stuff?! Y U NO MAEK SENSE?!
Because they make bits, Fluffy. They're ponies.
Shut up, Brian, I wasn't asking you!
1055561
I guess I was a bit unclear; what I was trying to convey is that I don't particularly respect my fanfiction. What bars me from churning out utter shit when I write fanfic is that writing is a form of play and relaxation for me; I don't respect my fanfic, but I enjoy it and it's not any fun to look back on your own work (and I'm constantly re-reading what I write for enjoyment, because I like reading) and have to wade through shit. As to those that "seek to maintain mediocrity"... I don't know who you're talking about, possibly because the explanation got lost in your immense novella-sized post on the subject. I just tend to attribute horrible fanfiction to a combination of population illiteracy, and the fact that the anonymous mask of the internet makes people feel empowered to do things that would humiliate and embarress them if they did them in real life in front of actual people. On the net, you don't have to take responsibility for your bullshit, so bullshit flows easily.
1055617 Nevermind then.
1055628 Nevermind about what? The compliment from the post I was replying to, or the mention of those who seek to maintain mediocrity? If the first... sorry, man, I just don't see why I have to respect my fanfic to enjoy it and be motivated to write good work. If the second... sorry I didn't catch it, I'll try to read through a second time and figure it out.
1055203
Just had to echo how cool this state of affairs is.
1055561
Ranting unfortunately doesn't produce a nice written essay on a subject. :(
I see. Just trying to be generous, here.
Writing is writing is writing. Simple as that. What genre the work falls into afterwords is immaterial. There was a video I watched (part of the Tasteful, Understated, Nerdrage series on youtube) that talked a bit about Genre and Literature, and how 'literature' is just genre pieces that have, over time, become the works regarded as the 'best' or 'timeless'. In time, stories or writers that we take for granted, or maybe even looks down on, will be elevated to similar status.
1055203
So true. Times are changing thanks to the Internet. Sadly, the literary world is slow when it comes to change.
I love the interactions with my readers, and also sort of dread them (stupid anxiety!
) . I also take the view that stories being written in this (online, chapter by chapter) allow one to correct, adjust, and treat the story as a living document. When I was writing my first novel (unpublished) I worried a lot about what went into it in terms of story and character development becuase once it was published (I was being optimistic!
) it'd be set in stone. Unchangeable. Whatever was in it I'd have to work around in later books (assuming any were published. Again, optimism!)
Someday I'd like to be paid for the words I string together. But for now, writing on Fimfiction is worth more to me.
Too lazy to read all that. But yeah, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Still wub you.
1055203
You know, I hadn't considered it that way before. I mean, it's obvious now that you point out the two-way communication channels involved, but reading your post was like having my eyes opened.
Well, if you could make some money from it, wouldn't you at least give it pause for thought?
I think this will almost entirely be like the distinction between online homemade videos and professional cinema, though. Yes, there will be excellent material appearing online, but people are still going to the multiplex to watch the movies. Not to mention art is pretty much the breeding ground for pretentious snobbery, so the online readership committee will probably end up in a ghetto of its own even if it works hard to earn recognition.
1055010
I was thinking more along the line of how an animal might use a specific organ of its body without consciously knowing that this is what it's doing. Insects use their antennae to sense for chemical traces around them even if they don't consciously think of doing so.
As for the Bible, as much as I acknowledge your right to disagree, I think I made myself perfectly clear vis-a-vis the history part:
Unless you were making the banal claim that it's a historical document simply because it's old, then I assumed you meant it was a record of real events that happened in real history. It's not history at all for the simple reason that, even removing the load of supernatural stuff, the majority of it is unverified outside of the text.To take Jesus Christ alone: all the non-biblical references to him are posthumously made by historians who relied on hearsay and could never have met him, the only biographical accounts appeared decades after his alleged death, and the story involves nonsense such as human parthenogenesis.
As for the purposes I mentioned, while no one can determine the purposes of a long-dead author with accuracy, it's clear from the existence of a large number of contradictions (even in the theology involved) that are riddled throughout and across the books that the different authors were tailoring their accounts to fulfil certain criteria, such as to meet old prophecies (hence the contradictory genealogies of Matthew and Luke, to show that Jesus' ancestor was David, are thrown out by the news that Mary was conceived directly by God anyway and with no input from Joseph). This is also shown by contradictory passages within each book, and by passages that were later added to the gospels, such as the last twelve verses of Mark and the story in John 8.
Lastly, I have read much of it; for instance, I've read the four gospels. When the earliest written gospel alone (Mark) begins with a demonstration of the demonic-possession theory of disease and a depiction of healing hands, and ends with stuff about true believers being able to heal with their hands and drink poison without any ill effects, then it's pretty difficult to call it a historical account with a straight face.