Swift stopped by the door by the pair of guards, giving it a single knock before opening it, letting me inside before closing it behind me.
It didn’t take long for me to the alicorn in the room. She was wearing a set of armour, reminding me of Luna's. Just larger and golden instead of silvery.
“Looking good,” I commented to her, giving Heavy Hammer a nod on the way as he passed me, carrying her helmet.
Celestia smiled slightly, “Five hundred years since I wore it last. Still fits.”
“Now that’s impressive considering the food in the castle,” I commented before I frowned slightly at her, “Do you think you’ll need it?”
She shifted her wings and sighed softly, “I… I hope not. I heard you and my sister managed to make contact with the Storm King?”
I nodded, “We did,” I said as I sat down, looking up towards her, “He was less than receptive. But we’ll check in another week and see how things have changed. I did send a message to the border guards to be extra ready in case he decides to move. That’s the riskiest part.”
Celestia nodded and spread one wing to allow Heavy Hammer to start fitting it with the flexible cover plates along the over side, “If we can avoid war, that would be preferable.”
“Couldn’t agree more,” I said, “But if we can’t, I prefer if we stomp them so hard into the ground nopony would dare try it again.”
Celestia sighed softly and tried folding her wing before extending it again to allow him to make some adjustments, “You sound like my sister once did.”
“Well, considering the fact that nopony else had attacked Equestria in a long time, it seems to have worked,” I said as I watched the armour being fitted. That was a clever way to protect the wing and still make flying possible, if not easy.
“One of the reasons,” Celestia agreed and folded her wing again, allowing Heavy Hammer to work on her left, the earth pony expertly manipulating the straps and such necessary, “but I would prefer if it didn’t come to that.”
“Sometimes the only winning move is not to play,” I said before I shrugged my wings at her look, “A saying from back home. But sadly it only applies when both sides see that it’s true.”
Celestia nodded slowly, “Wars don’t have victors. Only those that lose less.”
“And we’ll do what’s necessary to make sure it’s not Equestria,” I told her, “Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.”
She nodded again and folded her other wing before picking her helmet up in her magic, putting it on before she turned to me, “I want you to go talk with Commander Tempest. Anything she can tell you could be useful.”
“Okay,” I agreed, “I can give it a try at least.”
“Thank you, Page,” Celestia said and then took her helmet off, “And thank you, Heavy Hammer. This works nicely. Dismissed.”
He bowed slightly and left the armoury before Celestia turned to me,
“Is there anything from your old world that could help us?
Fire.
The sky on fire as the clouds rose up to meet space... Liquid fire clinging to beings. Humans dying in the thousands in muddy trenches from gases eating them alive. Soldiers charging into steel rain.
Not here. Never here.
“No, I’m afraid not, Celestia,” I told her, “While humans have some advanced weapons, none would work here from what I have seen. They all need infrastructure that we don’t have any in any case, I don’t have the expertise needed for any of them.”
Celestia nodded and gave me a small nuzzle, “...Perhaps it’s for the best. Go speak to our prisoner.”
I gave her a small nuzzle back before I turned to leave. I really, really didn’t want any of that stuff to come to this world.
Ever.
There were enough monsters in this world without putting ponies on that list too.
Swift joined up next to me as I walked outside, “So, where to?”
“Dungeons. I'm going to have a talk with Miss Berrytwist,” I told him, “but we’re stopping by the kitchen on the way.”
He frowned, “The kitchen?”
“The kitchen,” I confirmed.
Good gods, man! It's seven in the morning, go back to sleep!
Hmmmmm...... COnsidering how much emphasis was put on Page not wanting human ware technology in Equestria, I can't help but wonder if that will be a plot point at some point in the future. Still waiting for Clear Skies' return.
Celestia nodded slowly, “Wars don’t have victors. Only those that lose less.”
so very true
The sky on fire as the clouds rose up to meet space... Liquid fire clinging to beings. Humans dying in the thousands in muddy trenches from gases eating them alive. Soldiers charging into steel rain.
Not here. Never here.
the thought alone is enough to want to keep it away from this world
We're getting some food from the kitchen. The castle kitchen. the kitchen that belongs to the castle the castles kitchen the kitchen for the princesses that kitchen
Thank you so much for this. I love it when we're reminded that Page is/was (honestly not sure which) human. Little cultural references just aren't enough, Pinkie or Dissy could do those. But, omnivorism, "my little predator", and flashes of a distinctly human world really sells it for me.
9918170
I'd like to think Celestia saw in his eyes that he knew things that could help a war, but also realized that it was far better for the world that he didn't share them. I also find the image of him suddenly getting a thousand-yard-stare at the question both dramatic and amusing.
9918182
Page is a human turned pony, so 'was' is the right descriptor
Why do i see a white phosphorus scene from spec ops the line in front of my eyes? Why is my imagination so strong?
You and I both know that the airship, Gatling gun, and howitzer are a match made in hell. The question is, is Equestria going to win fast enough that Page doesn't compromise on "never?"
9918187
Indeed
9918199
I'd love to see storm king's fleet versus a few super fortresses. . .
9918219
9918199
Guns, tanks, planes, our technology is for humans, designed for humans
Some things would just not work, aren't compatible
Better to create equipment and technology for ponies and changelings that are supposed to be made for them
Maybe spears that shoot a magic blasts/projectiles for example
Crossbows with magic explosives, magic projectiles something like Bowcaster but magical
Swords, blades that are enchanted to electrify or heat up when wanted
Stuff like that
9918282
A Howitzer and a Gatling-type gun are not specific weapons that only humans can use. A large caliber, breach loaded artillery piece is the most deadly weapon on the battlefield, and putting it in the sky just makes it more so. There's enough in canon about cannons to know they're not a foreign concept to ponies, either. A Gatling gun is nothing more than a simple machine gun that is capable of a very high rate of fire, which has excellent synergy with flying machines where the amount of time a given target spends inside of your firing arc is going to be limited.
Page and Celestia may not want to bring human ways of waging war with all of it's terrifing effectivness, but progress is unstopable. Someday, some other creatures will start developing some of these techs and Equestria will have no choise but to develop them too. Or Equestria will met enemy so powerful, that there will be choise between bringing hell to the war or allowing to be forever defeated.
One thing that is good, that Page, if he know decently history, may warn princesses, when there will start appear events similar to these on Earth's.
Industrualization (may avoid all of this worker abuse by setting proper laws from beginning and destruction of nature), some ideologies and social changes can be stopped or properly tempered. So he can save a lot of lives in future with this.
9918285
Human wars are different
Humans couldn't fly everywhere like pegasi and changelings
Couldn't use magic like unicorns and changelings
That's an example that should give you an idea that their wars will be different with means different weapons, technology and tactics
9918340
I think you'll need to compensate for my failure of imagination. The fundamentals of warfare problem solving don't seem any different in Equestria than they do on Earth.
A smart move there Page. Equestria isn’t a place where warfare is needed. It’s smart to deny ponies the power of human tech. If they ponies want the tech, they must invent it themselves. So that they can gain respect for that technology as well.
.
.
.
.
What would happen if the Nobles found out about all the technology inside of Prince Page’s head off war did arrive?
War.
War never changes.
Tear gas...... that is all :)
9918340
Magic is just another factor, that could be applied to these weapons. Rifles and artilleries can be magically enchanted for better balistic parameters, planes for being faster, lighter and more agile, tanks for being tougher and more reliable, explosives for being stronger. Magic will not replace these weapons, but simply allow for making them even more effecient. Swords will never compete with weapons, that's kill you from behind of horizont.
In this chapther was missed oportunity for telling Celestia about human warfare and asking her, if she want this here NOW.
- It's hurt to hear about such developed cruelty, Page...
- Celestia, it never was about cruelty. During war you should, MUST, find any way, tool, idea that will give you egde against your enemies, to save as much of your peoples as possible at best or to be able to save them at all at worst. If you don't do this, your enemies will do this, but without counter from your side. Even good ones sometimes must do terrifying, unspeakable acts to save themselves and their ideas, like you burning thousends earth ponies or these yetis for unsarcastically better future. Because goodness and honor of these who lost is just footnote in history books of victors, sometimes even isn't this.
9918343
Don't get me wrong, guns would be useful for ponies but not our guns and in a different way
For starters, no bullets and gunpowder but magic bolts, charging for example from crystals
Maybe even crossbows like Bowcaster but powered by magic
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a9/Bowcaster_DICE.png/revision/latest?cb=20151106043017
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/c/cb/Bowcaster-SW.png/revision/latest?cb=20150827052655
Also for tactics example:
Pegasi could be grenadiers, they can fastly fly over the enemy group while throwing a couple of grenades, like mini bomber
derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/7/13/673987.png
9918378
These kinds of tactics really aren't any different than what's already in practice in real life militaries - the only difference is that you're doing them with creatures that can fly unaided. Using magic as a substitute for gunpowder doesn't really change the nature of a firearm (or should that be mana-arm?) but probably reduces the efficiency since it adds a variable that is difficult or impossible to control: the skill of the individual spell caster. It's far more difficult to organize and command an army that uses non-standard equipment. Storing mana is likewise an interesting question, and could be a non-trivial problem. Chemistry and firearms both benefit greatly from standardized mass production, giving them, in my opinion, the same edge over magic that factories have over artisan's shops.
Part of this chapter felt like a facebook feed of Motivational Posters.
But Page is right. Even just introducing the ideas behind our weapons of mass destruction might lead to the development of magic alternatives. (hello Balefire Bomb)
Swift: You sure you want to go to the kitchen? They are busy right now making around 1200 pies.
Page: Why are they making 1200 pies?
Swift: To use as artillery for the upcoming war.
Page: ......what? Well tell them to stop! Who in their mind uses pies as weapons?!
*Every pony in Applelosa sneezes at the same time*
9918370
Page recognizes the opportunity, else he wouldn't have even thought of it.
He is simply deciding that he doesn't want any of that in Equestria.
He's not even going to ask Celestia if she wants it; he's keeping that decision to himself.
I agree with him, even if it makes a couple of things a bit more difficult.
Is it just me or are the first two paragraphs written horrible awkward?
I’m glad there preparing airing for the worst as the Storm King didn’t register so high on the smart cookie scale in the movie.
9918340
9918343
9918370
All of you have good ideas, but all of you are still thinking of warfare in human terms when considering the potential that magic gives each side. Bobbles has the right of it as being the primary issue: imagination.
Sure, magic can make cannons be more effective, explosives be more powerful, armor stronger, your war industry be more productive, etc.
But magic CAN ALSO make someone wielding a sword quite competitive to long range ballistic weapons.
Just think how effective an assassin can be if he can create portals through which to stab his targets. And if his skill is good enough, he could kill without even leaving a visible wound on his victim. Or battle plans could be just as quietly spied upon. Using magic to engage in acts requiring finesse may not be as flashy as magically created nukes, but finding and chopping off the heads of an opposing army miles distant can be pretty devastating in its own right. We've seen on the show that even magic has to account for how much power is put into the resulting effects, so making nuclear-sized detonations appears to be using more effort than opening a doorway through space.
And, of course, one has to guard against those sorts of subtle attacks, too.
Just how imaginative can each side be?
Think of Kirk's explanation of the game of Fizbin--
now just imagine that game as being real--
now, imagine it being moved to a battlefield situation!
9918182
Yes. I agree, though not all of us would be capable of steering a Manehattan Project to fruition. Oppenheimer's toy has no place with the ponies.
⚛
Me to what to the alicorn in the room? I'm sorry, but somethings missing.
9918221
I've already worked out how an alicorn could effectively nuke something. The process is quite simple, use magic to fly faster than the speed of sound, teleport over the target area, and let physics do the rest.
As for advanced weaponry, changelings could mimic mecha armor, and rail guns by using their magic to push a projectile. All Page would have to do is impart the form and function to the lings and he's got himself a Gundam. With enough lings, he could even great Voltron.
So many things... but let's hope that you never get pushed enough into a corner where Page feels they become necessary
It is
Also, while I suspect she already does, it would have been cool if Celestia gave more of a hint that she could tell that he was lying
9918789
An Alicorn sized object would need to be traveling at close to the speed of light for that, and I don't think they're anywhere near that level of impervious to physics.
9918997
It might not be as big, but think about where all that kinetic energy has to go. Just flying faster then the speed of sound without a protective shell would be impossible without magic.
9919016
Changelings just smacked Shining's shield until it crumbled. I don't think relativistic air molecules are going to be any kinder.
9919019
Changelings and flying faster than the speed of sound are two different things.
Sure, all they did was repeatedly smack their heads against Shining's shield, but that was because they were following the orders of a mad queen with no imagination. At least in the show.
Changelings have magic that can be used to simulate other forms of magic such as unicorn magic, and as far as we know into any other living being. There's no reason to assume that a group of changelings couldn't esaly form themselves into something simulating a railgun by linking themselves together the way ants do and combine their magic. No single individual would be enough but with a combined effort a group could fire projectiles in much the same way a railgun does with each individual providing a little more push. There's also no reason they can't combine themselves into just about anything all depending on what limitations the writer wishes to impose.
9919115
It's not just that they're going faster than the speed of sound, it's that they're going an appreciable percentage of the speed of light.
9919146
The changelings are not the ones traveling faster than sound or anywhere near the speed of light. All I was saying is that they could propel an object. A projectile of some kind.
It was the Alicorn that was exceeding the speed of sound and converting that energy into a destructive force. Not the changelings. There is a reason no one wants supersonic aircraft flying near populated areas. The sonic boom is very destructive.
But tell me, how fast is a unicorn traveling when they teleport? Either they are disassembling themselves at the subatomic level and creating a brand new body at the other end via quantum entanglement or they are somehow traveling at light speed.
9919193
A sonic boom is not particularly destructive unless the overpressure of the wave reaches about one pound per square inch. The disruptive sonic boom that people were startled over is more in the range of a pound per square foot. Instantaneous displacement and replacement is a space-time jump that does not involve crossing over the intervening space any more than traveling through the portals do in the Portal games. You can do some clever stuff and be incredibly deadly if teleportation is one of your capabilities, but that's a spell that not many unicorns are capable of casting. They're elites, but attrition is a bitch, and if you can throw bodies at the problem, all the elite training in the world will not be able to seize the day.
9919115
I'm guessing that a changeling imitating a bullet being shot out of a gun would go very badly for them, magic or not, they'd be under incredible forces to propel them and it'd probably just gib them instead. Similarly if a changeling turned into a rock and just fell to the ground from way up, I don't think they would hit with any more force than that of their original form would
9919743
I never said changelings would fire other changelings out of a gun.
A railgun uses a magnetic field to push a projectile, and combined magic could work in the same way. Try to imagine multiple individuals all helping to push a spear down a trackway with each individual's magic causing the spear to go faster until it gets shout out at the other end with a velocity far above what a single individual would have been capable of.
9919773
Its a little more complicated, and consequently more difficult, than that.
The stomach is always good starting grounds.
Indeed.
Call me a nihilist, but these ponies are capable of just as much destruction as humans are. Example being the alternate timelines during Starlight's time travels, though Page is only partially aware of what was possible because of the new Sparkles. Another being the Crystal Empire, a society frozen in time by a maniacal king that enslaved them all, and that was 1000 years ago.
9918347
They can do nothing for or against it really.
9918451
Very nice job my dude!
9918554
'Equestria at War' mod fan i figure?
9951911
Something like that. As I said, with magic at their disposal, a roomful of unicorns could easily whip up some of those wilder ideas dreamt up by Hitler and others in the Third Reich, which would still be quite tame compared to stuff just mentioned here up in the thread above.
For example: Gatling gun + Portals + Throne Room = Really Bad Day For A Kingdom Somewhere