Princesses are Tribalist?
Recent information brings startling facts to life. Is Celestia raising the other Princesses to further repress the non-unicorn population?
It will be as of no surprise to any non unicorn the recent unfair laws and actions perpetrated by Princess Celestia this last year. From ‘toll booths and transport fees’ which charge earth ponies an exorbitantly higher rate than air cargo and even more so than teleportation array shipping or dragon express mail.
To the increased weather costs from her actions with the Weather Factory in Cloudsdale. When asked about her recently accepted laws she stated on multiple occasions, “I overlook only those laws that are truly detrimental to Equestria as a nation. For I care about all my little ponies, but I trust the lawmakers and parliament to pass reasonable laws for the betterment of our nation.”
When asked why the burden fell on pegasi and earth ponies more than unicorns, her reply was, “While some laws might seem to affect one tribe over another. I assure you that the laws are fair to all individuals.” As you may recall when Canterlot Times and the Manehatten Tribune both did stories on the increased costs that were affecting the nation as a whole. More on Celestia’s response on page A-2 about inflation being natural.
Even more damning are the problems was the Weather Factory. She claimed that “due to the Cloudsdale Charter of 362 CE, which our sources showed she had a hoof in drafting, the Weather Factory was a private business ran by the Cloudsdale government and the Equestrian Weather Bureau. The matter was out of her hooves, since it was a factory-related problem, as opposed to a natural one.
While we at Canterlot have enough EWB certified unicorns to create weather via magic. Thus stymying the costs of weather, other places in our nation don’t have it as easy, where weather based unicorns are less common, and the EWB, along with weather production companies crack down on illegal weather production.
Sources at the EWB claim said fines are to ensure the hard working ponies who are trained for their service can earn a living, rather than chaotic weather running about all willy nilly.
“What!” Twilight yelled drawing the attention of the parliament ponies on the ground below. Giving an apologetic smile she said in a harsh whisper, “What!? Of course you couldn’t do anything Celestia! The laws are almost draconian, and when you gave legal responsibility to Pegasi cities to make the weather like they petitioned, you made the EWB to ensure that the workers were taken care of, but let them be private businesses. Equestria’s first private businesses that weren’t family related. It was the biggest historical moment in the history of Equestrian Law!”
I was not grinding or gnashing my teeth. No a princess isn’t allowed to do those things. No, I was simply chewing on my thoughts before continuing to read this assault on my character. Ever since I’ve granted the right of my ponies to have Freedom of Speech, journalists have pushed what is acceptable, and for the most part, I part let them express themselves.
But that they printed such horrendous garbage against me … it had been centuries since I was dragged through the dirt; being accused that I didn’t care for all my little ponies. Even if some didn’t have horns, it doesn’t make them any less special. Although marrying and knocking up a few Earth Ponies, and a pegasi or two wasn’t necessary to prove my point at the moment. I could always make a marem if I needed to … but that always opened up a new can of worms every time. The last thing I wanted to do was give the wrong impression to Twilight and Luna.
I felt a migraine coming. I believe this is what Pinkie Pie would call, a “doozy”.. Remember Celestia eyebrows relaxed, lips slightly up … no that’s almost a grimace, you don’t want to look like you’re snarling. Remember … you have to be the perfect princess, the sea of tranquility. Negative emotions scare your little ponies to thinking you’re going to go the route of Nightmare Moon … and reminds you that you can no longer afford to show unnecessary things.
It was hard, you know? Being all smiles, and serenity. The rock this nation was built on. But alas, there was more, but my fellow princesses, just like the nation had expectations of me. I had to be strong for them. I wrapped Twilight and Cadance who were looking quite angry in my wings and gave them both assuring nuzzles. I felt them calm under my wings as I rested on my barrel, I don’t know if they had a nostalgic rush like I was, but the calming effect was noticeable.
“Why don’t you sit with us, Luna? It won’t do good for you to stand around all day.” I said all smiles.
“I don’t know how you can look so calm, Tia,” Luna replied.
Practice,”They’re just words Luna. They can only hurt you as much as you allow them to.” What was that look Luna? Pain? Regret? “What’s on your mind Luna?”
“Nothing sister. As you said. They’re just words,” Luna replied. I knew she was lying of course, she had always been a terrible liar. I thinks that’s why Honesty loved her as much as he did. Although I’m quite sad to see that Laughter has left her since her return … if only I knew how to fix it.
Nonetheless, I can’t be sad. Not in public, and not to my sister. She’s been so down these past few years. Hesitant, lost, broken … no I would not cry. I was a rock … always a rock at least into Twilight came into my life.
…
…
Sometimes I really wish my brain would shut up. Especially at times like these. But as I told Luna. Words can’t hurt you if you don’t let them. More importantly I needed to see why my ponies would be hurting to the point they wrote such a thing. Even in conjecture, and opinions. There was some truth, or at least the seed of reasoning that caused such thoughts in the first place.
Of course we Canterlotians had to look into things. After all even as hard as it has been for others, and those hardships increasing costs across the nation. A journalist must follow their leads no matter where they go. Which is why finding out our beloved ruler is a tribalist is truly shocking.
As everypony knows Canterlot was built as a unicorn city with few pegasi before the Canterhorn Pass was built a few decades after the cities construction. Not only due to the presence from the nobility who traced their lines from the unicorn royal families and aristocracy, but also from the unicorns who were flewn up to assist in the construction of the city itself.
Not long after the cities construction the most prestigious and oldest school in the world, Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns was build and the unicorn population only grew. Not only does Canterlot, our nation's capital, have the largest concentration of unicorns in Equestria of any Equestrian nation. But the school itself is the only school to be overseen, funded, and bearing Celestia’s name itself.
It also is the only school that has been hosted by her guest lectures, and all of her protege’s have been from her school. Hoof picked and raised by her to become the greatest minds of our time. History has shown that these ponies were either Flares, ponies with magical reserves far beyond normal as well as their ability to control safely. As well as unicorns of extraordinary talent, who paved the way as prodigies in their field. The only one who’s ever failed her was somepony called Sunbutt Glitter, a unicorn filly who a decade ago simply disappeared from the face of the world, and whom Celestia has repeatedly told both her family and the nation at large that she didn’t have an idea where Sunbutt had disappeared too.
Something quite unbelieveable when considering Celestia’s contribution to scrying and tracking spells. Among her many other contributions to magic.
There has been historical accounts that every era of sexual revolution followed a time where public outcry against the treatment of the other tribes happened and Celestia took a marem of earth ponies and pegasi whom she paraded around, from historical accounts in quite a flashy manner. But it's this journalist's opinion as well as noted historians this was more of a ploy to distract from the issue, mostly since the few noted unicorn relationships she had before and after were quite tame and normal for herds of the time.
Although it should also be noted that her marems during sexual revolutions were treated quite well. So even as a tribalist, she at least does respect the bodies of those she takes as lovers. Which is to be expected for gentle giant we all know and love. Which makes this piece even harder to write.
Nonetheless, we also tried speaking to the other two princesses of Equestria. Best Princesses, Princess Luna stated that “[she] isn’t ready for governance and stands by any decision her sister makes in the running of Equestria. After all Equestria hasn’t devolved into anarchy and ruin over these last thousand years so she must be doing something right.”
As for our newest princess. Princess Twilight Sparkle, the Princess of Friendship replied, “I haven’t had time to learn politics yet. I’m new to this ‘princessing’ thing, and I know that Celestia has the best interest at heart for Equestria.”
This brings to light an important question. We have three rulers, yet two of them follow Celestia’s lead, and have no hoof in our running. Are we to believe that Celestia’s tribalist views are shared by all the princesses? And if so, what does that say to those without a horn?
More on Page 2-A, B, and F]
I placed the newspaper down. Twilight and Cadance blushing furiously. If for finding out what I would rather they not, or if out of anger at what was written and the insinuations against them I didn’t know. But I had to leave … personally between the article, the memories they dragged up, and the gall to call my dearest little Sunset, Sunbutt Glitter, was more than I could stand. At least more than I could stand and retain my many masks.
“Know this … I am not mad at any of you, and we will all talk later. But I need to be alone for a bit. If you could Twilight … Luna. Get the Element Bearers, I think a nice game night like I was going to ask Twilight and Cadance before you entered is something we all could use. As well as some outside perspective.”
I didn’t even hear a reply as I left. I don’t think I could hear anything past the pounding pulse in my ears like waves breaking across the shore, and like waves eroded the shore they struck so to did that persistent pulse threaten to erode myself control. A princess can’t lose control. A princess can’t show weakness. A princess must be strong for her nation and for those relying on her. I Celestia, am a princess.
Sunbutt Glitter. Now that was just spiteful.
Also, kind of the same issue as the last one. The parts between the article sections aren't so bad, but the articles are seriously horrendously badly written. It seems like half of the sentences in those sections literally break up in the middle and are hacked into parts that make no grammatical sense whatsoever.
well her past is calling and it wants to bite her in the flank. While im interested in the rest of the article it is poorly written with grammatical mistakes through out.
6952556
6952552
Would any of you two be interested in being an editor in this fic? Honestly grammar is one of the few things I rely on editors for XD.
6952587
Sorry, I kind of already edit two and promised to help with a third. In all honesty, this is something you should also try to work on yourself. You shouldn't rely on editors for everything about that sort of thing, or you'll end up with something that's 90% someone else's writing and really only has your name tacked onto it anymore.
It's a good story, but mother of god, the grammar! It's absolutely shite, especially in the news articles. Here's an example of a particular problem that I kept seeing over and over in this chapter and the last:
That shouldn't be two sentences. It should be one, separated with a comma. I'd also like the point out that I have no idea what you were even trying to say when you wrote "as well as their ability to control safely". I think you're missing a few words there.
6952644
True ... do you know any good, free grammar checking programs / sites to run the chapters through?
6952648
Yeah ... I need to get a second set of eyes on this XD. I'll be posting up edited chapters after the first two get fixed.
6952657
Sorry, no. Grammar checking is one of those things that machines just can't really do. It involves actually comprehending what a text means and is supposed to tell the reader. They're just not smart enough for that.
6952657 I'd offer my own help, but I'm a slow worker. A site that checks for grammar only really works for spellings, which you seem to be ok with. Like wlam said, a computer just isn't capable of understanding what you meant and fixing things accordingly, especially in the very specific context of MLP. You need an actual person for that.
6952660
No problems ^_^. I'm going to look around, and hopefully I can find someone as well as get it all fixed up before I get finished with this fic and move onto the sequel. I'll be putting up *edited* next to the updated chapters that are fixed / were in need of fixing.
Hopefully the content itself is good enough until then . But it will be something that I'll work on fixing asap.
6952667
Ah ... I'll ask around then. Grammar is one of my weak points. Good on spelling, some dialects, and paragraph / dialog structure. But grammar and my sometimes weird word usage is usually what I bring others in for. Thanks for the critique though ^_^. It's been appreciated.
…So. Them marems, eh?
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Riot gear? Check.
Baton? Check.
Alright. Let's go beating up some journalist.
6952834
Yep, it was a nice thought on Tia's part ... but rather poor in its execution. That and she comes from an age where the more mates one had the more one could protect their lineage, as well as a sign of power and affluence. Seeing as having large numbers meant that you were wealthy enough to care for them and powerful enough to protect such a number.
6952854
Don't forget the about:
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I hope Twilight reads about how they misspelled poor Sunset Shimmer's name, she is her friend after all. It makes me wonder how this will all shake down during the story.
Good Grief Pony SJWs (it's Unicorns offended on BEHALF of other tribes). And yea Cadance got to avoid Score didn't she, certainly makes it convenient for the paper that they don't need to risk their position by imply the Princess of Love, an Ascended Pegasus, is a tribalist. But then like I already commented things don't need to be true to seem true.
6952941
Chapter 8 of the sequel. I'm going to have a Twilight and Cadance PoV chapter where they put their hoof down. It'll be awesome ^_^. Right now I'm in chapter 7, and decided to make Zecora speak mostly in Swahili. But yes Celestia puts up with freedom of speech because of how bad censorship can be. That and it furthers creativity and understanding ... but Twilight and Cadance are going to use that freedom to verbally Freedom Punch some fools right in the kisser.
6952879 So…did she impregnate them, or they her, or…?
6952982
She went both ways, although she was usually the one to sire. But every now and then she'd be the one to carry a foal.
*Me through the whole article:
Wow... You really surprise me!
I been waiting for days for this chapter, when thinking about what would happen next, I never would have guess you to use politics, taxes, Sunset and more!
You sir have my applause!
This might be one of the best Celestia stories on here.
6953090 I have been thinking of making my own stories on here, and seeing this has inspired me to try a journalist story like yours!
6953090
, Thanks ^_^.
6953083
6953093
Awesome, send me a link when you've published it, and I'd be glad to give it a read ^_^.
6947939
6947967 I hope this fic, and especially the comments, really dives deep on the schools issue, as well as a lot of the other issues of representation. I really like the worldbuilding in this fic, but I'm going to keep my discussions mostly tied to the canon of the show. The first half of my comment is mostly just observing things based on episodes, the second half is my actual headcanon and theories.
The fact that we've only heard about Celestia having a school for unicorns, and not the other tribes, is deeply disturbing, as is the fact that she's only ever chosen personal proteges that we've heard about from unicorns. (It does look like the main reason she was picking personal students is to train someone to be the Element of Magic, which possibly could only be wielded by someone with a horn, but that's an unknown so there's no way to tell.) Don't forget Celestia and Luna were students of Starswirl the Bearded, that certainly influenced their views on the importance of arcane/unicorn magic.
I feel like Wonderbolts academy has to be part of the government, it is run by the Wonderbolts, which we know since season 4 are definitely an arm of the military.
Finally, Maud Pie is getting her "Rockterate" somewhere, which sounds like some sort of advanced degree in earth pony magic to me. But what school is teaching this, and whether Celestia is involved at all or its just a private school earth ponies have to pay out of their own pockets, is unknown.
One thing I have to take strident issue with though: There is no evidence of an overwhelming unicorn nobility today! This is an easy one to judge on the face: There are only a limited number of episodes in the show that really show us the elite ponies in Equestria, or even Canterlot. Sweet and Elite shows us a group of wealthy Canterlot elite, but other than Blueblood we have no idea if they are actual nobles (sure seems like Rarity would have given Fancypants a title when referring to him if he had one) and there like 60% unicorn 40% earth pony, at least in her song montage! And that's in a city where the population as a whole is mostly unicorn. Also, we never actually see this group govern, they just hang around like the idle rich. Even if they are nobility, it looks like most of them don't have actual governing duties anymore. Same thing for the Galas. Watch the crowd in both Gala episodes, its roughly 45% unicorn, 45% earth pony, 10% pegasi.
But all those scenes are of only limited importance, because they show us more the social side of things than important governance. They also show us only Canterlot, which is not actually that important today. Yes its the capital, just like Washington DC is the capital of the United States, and has a disproportionately high population of African Americans. No one would suggest African Americans are the governing elite because they heavily populate the capitol of the country. Contrast Canterlot with Manehatten. Manehatten is far bigger, and seems far wealthier, and its where all the modern technology seems to be coming out of. Who seems to overwhelmingly run Manehatten? Earth ponies, from the Oranges and their elite dinner parties to the oat financiers to the fashion industry to the entertainment industry, to their official representative to.
Now, there are two episodes that give us the strongest possible evidence as to the composition of Equestria's elite: Equestria Games and Princess Spike. Here we have respectively the national elites putting in key face time at their equivalent of the Olympics, and Equestria's closest version to a meeting of parliament/state of the union address. In Equestria Games, we get to see the elite ponies of Equestria in their box seats below the alicorn princesses. Split evenly between unicorns and earth ponies, with maybe one pegasi. In Princess Spike, probably the single most government-heavy episode ever, all three tribes (and both genders, for the record) are pretty evenly represented by the delegates.
Is this evidence of tribalist discrimination: Yes, but only against Pegasi. Earth ponies and unicorns seem to share the levers of power (below the princesses, of course) at a roughly equal level nationally, with unicorns have an edge in the unicorn-populated Canterlot, but earth ponies having a much bigger edge in the much more important city of Manehatten (Equestria's version of New York City). Now, its quiet possible, even likely, that this is a relatively recent development, and before the industrial revolution the unicorns held a predominant share of power over both tribes, but we don't get a lot of evidence of what history was like between the banishing of NMM and her return.
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My headcanon/theories: I suspect, like many others, that the unicorn nobility naturally became the new governing class after the reunification, if for no other reason that with Celestia and Luna around, earth ponies still gotta grow food and pegasi gotta control the weather, but unicorns now have nothing but time on their hands, so they may as well help out the princesses. Pegasi were in charge of most of the military, which left earth ponies focused on the private sector. That meant for the majority of history, unicorns were the most powerful tribe, and probably grew fairly wealthy (even assuming that Celestia kept them from abusing their positions).
But if you have an honest governing class that is prevented from rent seeking by Celestia, the part of society that controls the factors of production will grow ever wealthier compared to the rest of society, especially once an industrial revolution kicks in (I'd guess at least 100 years ago, technological progess in Equestria seems fairly slow). And with wealth comes the ability to afford better education, hire lobbyists, finance newspapers, all means to prize a larger share of the governance away from the unicorns. I really doubt Celestia, over 1000 years, would not have come up with meritocracy for the actual function of governance, even if she has some useless nobles still hanging around doing nothing. And once earth ponies can afford the best tutors and their own private schools, a fair amount of them would compete for governing jobs.
Remember how I said it seemed like about 40% of the Canterlot Elite were earth ponies? I do believe the Canterlot elite are probably the titled nobility, though I suspect that they no longer have the ownership of vast tracts of land, and if they hold government jobs they have to apply for them like everyone else. I suspect the reason we see plenty of earth ponies mixed in with the unicorns (but not pegasi) is the same reason you saw plenty of European nobles marrying American heiresses in the 19th century: One side had a title but no money left, the other side had no title but lots of money. I bet most of those earth ponies among the Canterlot elite can trace a parent to a wealthy Manehattenite.
On the other hand, the Pegasi are kind of boned. Sure, they still fill up a large portion of military (It seems like the old EUP has been reformed over the years, with the unicorn portion evolving into the Royal Guard and letting in the other two tribes, and the earth pony version turning into the marshalls that we see today). But a peaceful Equestria doesn't need that much of a military, and Celestia doesn't want a revolt of disgruntled unemployed Pegasi, so the weather corporation is created. To me the weather corporation's total control of weather seems vastly more inefficient than just having wild weather plus good irrigation for farms and maybe hurricane control, but it does also seem like employs a huge portion of Pegasi, which is probably its main purpose. Other than weather, what could pegasi make in Clousdale? Anything else they manufactured the raw materials would have to be transported by air, and finished goods would have to leave by air. The existence of railroads probably threatens many Pegasi transportation businesses. Without government subsidy of the weather corporation, I think Cloudsdale would turn into Detroit. The richest Pegasi in Equestria is probably AK Yearling, and she lives on the ground. I think in the long term, more and more Pegasi will leave Cloudsdale to make their fortunes on the ground, but until then Pegasi will continue to be the poorest, and probably least influential tribe.
On a personal level for Celestia, I feel like she learned how to fight from Starswirl, and in practice thinks of herself as a powerful unicorn. She doesn't really know a lot of advanced Pegasi flight techniques, and practically nothing of her own earth pony magic. I think that's why she never started those other schools, because at the time unicorn magic was the only subject she felt like an expert in (yeah, she should have sponsored schools for the other tribes even if she didn't know the subject matter herself, that was short-sighted of her). I'm sure she genuinely loves the members of all tribes equally (and even the non-ponies), but yes, a combination of lots of unicorns around her, raising 52 generations of Platinum's descendants, and teaching at that school has left her with the perspective of a unicorn. She needs to check her horned privilege!
6953690
I can say without a doubt that by the end of this fic the school will be dealt with / gone into. We're actually going into the fics' history.
I never read any of the books, and Comics according to Hasbro aren't cannon. Technically so are the books, seeing as how Hasbro sells rights to X to use their product / name. But the licence buyer is who determine what X is. Since the books and comics aren't officially talked about in the show. I've simply ignored them.
But I do agree that Tia and Luna knew Starswirl (since it's show cannon that a older Tia and Luna before Discord knew of him). What really got her into leaning towards unicorns is that she's everybit the bookworm / reader as Twilight. And at the time, unicorns would be the biggest and most educated (At least until Celestia could start a public education system. After she got ponies off of subsistence living).
I misread the title at first as "I'm not a Tribadist"
6953855 The books are actually written by the show writers themselves, and the Journal of the Two Sisters has been talked about previously throughout the show (Written by Amy Keating Rogers), just not in detail to what it really has within it.
The comics are not canon however.
6953953
That's cool then on the books then. If they are all written by the shows writers.
Are there any books that fix the utter Cck-punch that the show did with Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash? I mean supposedly as said in the Crusader Cutie Mark episode with the Cutecenera we never get to see. That Scootaloo helped Rainbow Dash grow as a pony, and helped her a lot. Yet we never see this [after 2 Seasons of build up to ScootaDash sister hood. We get absolutely nothing! Other than one partial episode with one small scene.]. It'll forever remain a sore point we got crap Apple Family, cookie cutter episodes [and one with Big Mac in drag which remains one of my least favorite episodes ever] instead of those ones.
6954204 I'm not a major reader of the books, I just read the Journal and the one with Twilight having issues with being an alicorn (With the story of Cadence's ascension). So I would not know the quality otherwise or content of the others.
6954241
Ah. Thanks for the reply though .
On a separate note. I seriously hope that next season delivers on ScootaDash sister episodes. All the other crusaders got at least 2 episodes dedicated to their sisters and them. With Apple Bloom getting a whopping 7.5 episodes with her ginormous family.
6953855 I know buddy, that's why all my evidence about there not being an exclusive unicorn nobility was drawn only from show episodes.
6954451
^_^
I always assumed that it was Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns because 1) she's probably the foremost authority on unicorn magic, and 2) misapplied unicorn magic is horrendously dangerous.
6954638
Well she is the foremost living expert on unicorn magic. Was a previous Element of Magic, and uses her magic for almost everything in the show. So since resonates with them the most. Of course she'd have a school for them, and well yes. Having a nuclear war head attached to the skull that can break time-space, ravage the laws of nature, and make physics bow to your whimsey is quite dangerous if not controlled.
But any elementary school teaches it's proper usage along with the parents who're technically, somewhat responsible for them.
That being said, any school could teach it. Celestia just so happens to be the one to take an active interest in the race's magical advancement / achievements.
6953690
Forgot to mention this before. But on Element of Magic. In Equestria, Friendship is Magic. It's not unicorn magic itself that makes the Elements work, as much as it is the friendship, harmony, and unity of the 6 Bearers together that makes it what it is. With Magic being the friendship powersource that binds the other five together.
Flying High in chapter 18 [Scootaloo is EoM], and Fire Gazer's fic are prefect examples of this.
But thanks to Celestia thinking literally, she ignores the part where friendship can come from any pony, and instead focuses on the name. Element of Magic, and with her predilection for unicorns and magic. Yeah, she focused on training a unicorn for the role. Thankfully she did end up with Filly Twilight who is pure adawable. Still it's a common misnomer that it takes a unicorn to make Friendship 'Magic'al .
6954701 That's a nice theory, and it may be true, or it may not be. We've never seen a pony without a horn act as the Element of Magic. I just re-watched the old Element Battles. All six of the ponies glow with their element, but a spark always shoots out of Twilight's horn that actually kick-starts the laser rainbow beam. Maybe if the Element of Magic was a pegasus the spark would shoot out of her wings, or hooves if it was an earth pony. Or, maybe it just wouldn't work without a regular arcane magical jump-start to the process from a unicorn/alicorn, the way a car battery starts an internal combustion engine.
I agree from a thematic and narrative point of view, it would be better if any pony (or any creature) could be the Element of Magic, it would certainly fit better with the ideals of harmony. On the other hand, it also kind of makes sense to me if you think of the Elements as not just ultimate maguffins, but magical tools that have to obey some sort of rules, and are still in the same category as other magical artifacts. Ultimately, the evidence in the show is inconclusive.
I suspect Celestia isn't sure either way, and just doesn't want to risk exactly what happens in Fire Gazer's Fic, which is why she only trained unicorns to be her
living weaponspersonal students.6954799
Honestly what happened in Fire Gazer's fic is Twilight's fault. She never saw them as friends, never really connected past, "Oh look! Elements, here lets get this over with!"
But look closer in the show. It actually starts with the elements of all the other ponies glowing, sometimes they all go airborne, sometime not. Then Twilight's eyes glow white, as all of them sync up. That's where the magic comes from not the horn.
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While yes she did use magic to teleport and make the shield, and a little bit after that using the Elements for a spell. The actual use of the elements when they started up and activated, it wasn't through the horn. It was with their eyes glowing white, and from all of them a Rainbow Laser.
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Magic Mystery Cure. Twilight never used her horn to do the spell. Nor did she use her horn to kick start their powers to return the memories and cutie marks of her friends. Nor did she use her horn when she was hit with the completed Destiny Spell. All of those times no horn was used.
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Personally I see the Elements as sentient. With a limited power on the planet without a foci to channel their powers together. But that power needs for their bearers to be in harmony with eachother, and the stirings of true friendship. Since the spark we see in the show is never magical.
Rather what we see, both before and in the Box Key arc is in the eyes. When Twilight uses magic to activate the Elements. Nothing happens. But when the spark of friendship lights up in her eyes, and she truly embraces friendship (rather than hurt, and flustered, and just wanting to hury things up). The power of the Elements truly come into being.
With the box arc. After the Elements choose the key that represents the ponies element at it's fullest. It's not a horn thing that happens. Rather the elements make a rainbow glow in the eyes.
Eyes are where the power lays. Well that and if you rewatch the Magic Mystery Cure, the Elements themselves shoot out their magic as horn replacer / alternate.
6955767
That's pretty much supposed to be exactly the point. The story has now progressed to the point where they all actually admit they're friends with each other and the elements are in a state where they could actually work if used. It's not supposed to be some kind of silly unicorn supremacy statement or whatever howard is reading into it.
6953690
Holy crap, dude, you're being wordy this time even by our standards.
6955877
I know that. And I know that Twilight never thought of it as a unicorn supremecy thing in that fic.
But Celestia on the other hand, ignored the fact that Derpy makes friends with everypony (or tries to), unified the others in a way, and even now. With Nightmare Moon is a pure example of Friendship, for which the Element of Magic in it's truest form represents and draws power from (not a spark of unicorn spell casting, but the spark of magic made from the power of friendship). All because she's not a unicorn (something Celestia herself said). Which is more out of ignorance, and she herself misinterpreting the element more than anything else.
But it took time for Twilight to be honest with herself, and honest with the others that they were friends. Not just acquaintances, or ponies she was forced into being near.
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I still stand to my position that it's the Element of Muffins now and draws power from baked goodness.
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I will agree on Element of Muffins now, but rather than baked goodness. I think that Derpy is so full of goodness and is adorable enough to eat, that her sweetness powers it. And if ever fully harnessed, would power all of Equestria for a century from a single Derpy Hug.
6955767 Right in that video you posted, at 1:12, the actual firing up of the laser cannon gets started with Twilight sparking up her horn, the animators have the magic for the whole thing start there. You're right about Magical Mystery Cure, I'm focused solely on the activation of the Rainbow Laser by the Elements of Harmony, not whatever hax mod Starswirl started and Twilight finished. Certainly the magic of friendship and harmony in general doesn't need a horn to be activated, it was a bunch of northern earth ponies that powered up the Crystal Heart and murdered Sombra.
I'd say the Elements themselves aren't sentient, but they're connected to the Tree, which definitely is sentient, otherwise who's controlling the Map in season 5? But just because they are sentient doesn't mean they automatically don't need a spark from a horn to activate. Plenty of sentient magical items still need bearers to perform the proper actions to use their powers.
There's really two questions to be considered here: Can the Elements of Magic that activates the actual Rainbow Laser be used by a non-horned pony? I say maybe, maybe not, it hasn't been tested in the show, and evidence seems split.
The other question is: If you're Celestia, and you feel there is even a possibility the Element of Magic only working for unicorns and alicorns, wouldn't you make sure your personal students were unicorns, just to hedge your bets?
6955877 Man, my doorstopper essay can be summed up as: Unicorns are no longer supreme, because earth ponies control most of the wealth and an equal share of political power (sucks to be pegasi though).
It's certainly possible it will turn out in Fire Gazer's fic all they need is Twilight to stop lying to herself about them being mere acquaintances to get those elements working properly, that would be a more satisfying ending than having Twilight and Derpy swap Elements. The only thing I object to is people telling the author that the latter ending is automatically ruled out by the show's canon, when it clearly isn't.
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I can certainly agree with all of this.
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1:31 - 1:33. When the actual elements start up [not the Element bullets] from 1:12 - 1:31 [the Elements Spell]. When they activated the horn wasn't active. It actually stops when she opens her eyes and all their eyes are white. Then the Rainbow comes from all of them. Not the horn.
And When facing Nightmare Moon. The rainbow comes after their eyes are white, and the horn doesn't light up when using the Rainbow Beam.
0:01 - :18: No horn light up. Her body is engulfed in the Elements Light. Then the Rainbow comes from all of them.
4:30 - 4:36. Yes The EoM does light up her forehead where her Tiara would be does light up. While prior, and after there is no horn similarity while the others are enshrouded in magic, and the others light up. Then just like the other times. They are light up with a white light. And a Rainbow comes from all of them.
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The Elements don't seem to use a horn when doing there business.
But I will admit that Celestia was unaware that anything without a horn could use it. So she'd rather not risk it, rather than taking time to look into Friendship Magic, or the other races advancement of magic. The risk was probably to high for her to leave up to chance. So while not the negative version of Racist. It still is tribalistic / rascist. Although it's less that she's unicorn supremist, and more she's used to and comfortable around unicorn magic, and unicorns.
So for your first question:
Yes. If humans can do it. And their Rainbow Power acitvates without a horn. And the show, shows that when the they are in use no horn is used. And the Rainbow comes from all of them. Yes there are spells that use the EoH, but actual activation and Rainbow Lasers there isn't a horn used.
Then a non-horn can do it.
Second:
No she couldn't. If she was willing to look into other ponies and friendship magic. Yes she could, but she didn't and wasn't. So she did what she thought was best and the most sure chance of saving Luna. Can't really fault her that, although in the fics where non-horns are able to use magic and she's in utter disbelief, or that only unicorns can be the EoM. That's something I can fault her in a little bit.
6956168 Vs. Discord. Right at 1:12 is when the single white glowy aura that surrounds all six of them spell gets its start from Twilight's horn. I think that's the precursor to summoning the Rainbow.
Vs. NMM the first ten seconds or so of that clip is the last part of each individual pony bonding with their elements. At 0:12 The white glow pops out of Twilight's horn and connects her white glowy aura to the other 5 white glowy auras, and as soon as those 6 auras are connected the laser rainbow shoots out. It all happens extremely fast, so there is probably room for debate here.
EgQ World: Whoh whoh whoooooh, you're bringing in the movies? I thought you were a strict orthodox fan who only followed the TV shows? Nah, I'm teasing.
Much as I love EqG world, the movies seem to operate on a whole different system of magic, one where a horn is not required for anything at all. In EqG a 7th Element of Harmony can modify the power of the rainbow laser and turn it into a ghostly mecha-alicorn. A pony can ascend to alicorn status, and her wings and horn manifest as living fire instead of solid matter. Heck the other five physical elements of harmony were not even present for that rainbow-lasering.
I suspect in EqG, horns are in hammer-space, but can still be tapped for magic with exceptional difficulty. I think that's what Twilight did in the first two movies (and Sunset Shimmer in the last two), but that's supposition, not evidence.
As to the question of whether Celestia was tribalist for not taking other students when it seems like the main goal of taking personal students was to train them to be the Element of Magic: It kind of depends on whether the Elements of Harmony can be activated/bonded to at will, or whether they only worked when fired off against an alicorn/mad god. If they can work at will, then Celestia was very dumb indeed for not experimenting with groups of friends over the 1,000 years she had. She could have fielded tested a dozen different friendly/magical earth ponies and pegasi who have their own 5-man band of friends, to see if they can shoot off rainbow lasers. If for some weird reason the elements of harmony could not activate in the 1,000 years of calm Celestia had, then I guess she would need to be super sure on activating them to take no chances on her element of magic.
Actually, now that I think about it, that does kind of hint at an unconcious tribalist bias on her part, the fact that Celestia just left her elements sitting in her old castle, it suggest to me she just assumed all she needed was a powerful unicorn properly trained and everything else would fall into place. Like, why didn't she at least try to activate the elements in the intervening years, send her friendliest Pegasus Wonderbolt with 5 really good friends up against an invading dragon, with Celestia herself ready to step in as backup?
To me that suggests, at least on an unconscious level, Celestia think she just needs a new Starswirl to do what the old Starswirl did, blast powerful monsters with his singularly potent unicorn magic, and the only difference is this new Starswirl needs 5 sidekicks to power up the extra pieces. Celestia didn't really do anything to teach the other 5 ponies about friendship, she just assumed she needed
1 unicorn with immense magical power + ability to form friendships with 5 other random ponies = all problems solved.
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Light didn't come from her horn. Power wise, every time the Elements do their thing, from time they all synced up with the white aura, to firing no horn was used.
Sure there's horn glowing prior. But you have to take into account that Twilight is a unicorn. She things with her horn. After they all bond with the NMM thing. Her horn doesn't light up. She and her friends are surrounded by white. Her eyes open, glowing white. And the Rainbow actually forms, in everytime it shows up, between the 6 friends.
And with EQG, Rainbow Dash didn't have a horn, nor did the others when they went Harmony Transformation Time. And much like the show, it forms from not the Magic Bearer, but from all of them. With EoM being the one to direct the force itself.
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Although yeah, her and Luna had the Elements for ages. And even if they require a great danger / something that threatens the worlds harmony to activate the first time. I doubt that the 1,000 yrs inbetween the show and Luna's Banishment was all rainbows and butterflies.
I think that when they went innert, rather than think of reactivating them. She put it aside as a lost cause until it was time to save Luna, and as you said. Thought she needed Starswirl 2.0 + 5 sidekicks to power things up. Heck even the Guide to the Elements of Harmony is a relatively small book. I mean I'v seen self help books bigger than that. Heck lots of Sci-fi / Fantasy books as well. Which shows that either the book was second hoof data, or the knowledge of the Elements are incomplete at best.
So you're right in that part. Although I also agree that it's subconscious. What with her being more closer to unicorns than other races, what with her Special Talent, and her love of magic. And didn't she say that Twilight was like Starswirl the Bearded in terms of power in the show?
6956395 I see the light coming out of her horn, you don't. At this point we're looking at the same images/video and drawing different conclusions, so I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Like I said, EqG rules are whole 'nother kettle of fish. Ponies in Equestria don't seem to be able to sprout extra limbs and giant ears from acts of harmony, the rules are even less defined than they are in the show.
You know who would be great to defend Celestia of her tribalism charges in your story? Trenderhoof. I think he and Celestia may have the same kind of unconscious attitudes towards earth ponies and unicorns. Can't you just see Celestia, the first time she spent any alone time with Applejack, telling her "I admire the work ethic of
you peoplethe earth ponies?"6956491
I can see how you can think there's light since pics of the event show that her tiara is reflecting the light, I was seeing no horn aura. But yeah, we can agree to disagree.
And yeah Trenderhoof and Celestia have opposite ends of the same subconscious problem XD. And I can see Celestia saying that. Although I'd think it'd go something more like,
: Your tribe's work ethic never ceases to amaze me.
: Yer pardon?
: I was just saying that how hard working and steadfast to their work Earth Ponies are never ceases to amaze me. *motherly grin*.
: Ah don't know what ta say? Uh ... thank ya kindly Ah guess?
: It's quite alright. I know how hard those kinds of things can be for you hard working folk.
6956795 Well, at least Trenderhoof wanted to move to a farm and start working hard. Though he also wanted a one-pony "marem" to show his I'm-not-tribalist credentials as well.
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Well a marem needs more than one pony. He just wanted whom he saw as the hottest Earth Pony ever to be his special somepony ... to bad his tastes needs a bit of work. Everyone knows Pinkie Pie's hotter, as long as you're not prone to aneurysms brought about by seeing Reality Warpers break causality. Still beauty's in the eye of the beholder, and at least he was willing to work hard for that love, that was not meant to be XD.
6958959 I'm afraid I must disagree most strongly with your interpretation there. Detailed frame-by-frame analysis of the show over several seasons indicates that Pinkie Pie is neither blonde nor has freckles. Clearly Trenderhoof's special talent is probably good taste.