The True Brew Café used to employ two part-time waitresses, one each for the morning and afternoon shifts, overlapping for the lunchtime rush. One had quit in disgust at all the changelings, and she had been replaced by Mixitkl. However, Custard Tart had been happy to continue on in her morning shift position, especially since the growth in business had also meant an increase in the hours worked, and therefore her take-home pay. Of late though, her pay was not the only thing increasing. The earth pony mare was quite gravid, and not long due to give birth. Actually, only her sturdy nature had kept her on this long.
This morning, Frothy was a little surprised when Custard walked into the shop in the company of an Orange Changeling. Typical of its kind, the changeling was small and almost cute-looking. The carapace was slightly darker than average, but the smile was just as bright as ever for those from that hive.
Custard called out a greeting as she trotted over to him.
“Good morning, Custard. Who’s your friend?” Frothy asked, unsure if he had seen this particular changeling before due to their similar looks.
“This is Parva, a friend of mine who’s looking for a job. I’m ready to go on maternity leave, and I suggested that he might like to take over from me.”
Frothy noted the use of ‘he’ in reference to Parva, but he also knew that despite the gender preference, there was essentially no difference between him and Mixitkl – both being essentially sexless. Personality-wise though – that remained for him to find out.
“So, Parva, what makes you think that you’re suited to the job?” Frothy asked.
“I’ve been here before and seen Custard at work, so I have a fair idea of what is involved, and I believe my skills are up to the job.”
“Have you worked at any similar jobs before?”
“Not as a waiter, although I’ve done some customer service jobs. I’ve only had some temporary employment so far because I’m fairly new to being a harvester in Canterlot.”
“How did you get to know Custard then?”
“She was a customer at the shop where I was working. We got to talking when she mentioned that she worked at a café that was popular with changelings. It was her suggestion that I try for the position here.”
“Why leave your old job though?”
“Primarily because the opportunity to fulfill my task as a harvester would be better here, but I also do not like that job.”
Custard interrupted, “He’s being too polite. The store owner has been taking advantage of him. She’s figured out that the new undisguised changelings are rather desperate for jobs, and she’s been overworking and underpaying them. Parva is hardly the first, and probably won’t be the last to be used this way.”
Frothy grimaced in distaste. “I can’t stand business ponies like that. How can they expect to get the best out of their employees if they treat them so badly? I can see that eventually laws will be enacted to prevent this kind of thing, especially if the princesses get involved.” He snorted in annoyance, and then smirked. “Of course I do seem to have a fairly direct line to one princess in particular. It might pay to drop a word in her ear.”
“That would be appreciated, Mr Brew.”
“Seeing as Custard is recommending you, I’ll give you a trial. If it looks like you’re suited to the job and you like the work, then I’ll take you on permanently.” Frothy turned to Custard and continued, “He’s your responsibility. You know how I like to run things, so get him up to speed as soon as possible. When do you want to go on leave?”
“I was thinking of finishing the week. That should be enough time for Parva to get a handle on things.”
Frothy thought about it for a moment, then nodded. “That works for me. Who knows – if he’s good enough, he might do you out of a job.”
Custard snorted in amusement. “Fat chance! When the new section opens, you’re going to need to hire more staff, not less!”
Frothy chuckled. “You got me there, Custard. So when will you be starting, Parva?”
“I’m ready to start right now, sir.”
“Oh? What about your old job?”
“I already quit that.”
“Were you that confident of getting this job?” Frothy asked with an arch of an eyebrow.
“Fairly confident, but mostly I hated working for that tightwad mare.”
“Fair enough. Go grab an apron from over there and get Custard to show you where to start.” As the changeling started to move in the direction that Frothy had pointed out, he added, “And the name is Frothy; not ‘sir’; not ‘Mister Brew’. Understood?”
“Yes sir, Mister Brew!” Parva replied with a cheeky salute.
Frothy smirked. He was going to work out fine.
* * *
Parva had indeed worked out. In fact the Orange Changeling’s hive specialty was a major asset as he entertained the customers as much as he served them. Frothy had noted that Parva did tend to put extra effort into serving ponies over changelings though, which was not surprising considering that he was also passively harvesting their emotional energy, whereas the changelings could give him none. It amused Frothy when he realized that he could use that to tell which of his pony customers were actually disguised changelings because Parva unconsciously favored the real ones with his best efforts.
Despite the fact that they were from different hives, Parva and Mixitkl got along quite well when their shifts overlapped. Because the lunchtime period was so busy, there were always enough customers for both of them. Frothy did not realize how well they got along though until he found out that Mixitkl had shared her experiences with the traders’ meeting, and Parva requested to be part of the next.
Frothy looked at Parva in surprise. “Why do you want to come?” he asked bluntly.
“To give Mixitkl some support in dealing with them. Plus I might have something more to offer that hasn’t been suggested as yet.”
“You do realize that some of them are hostile to the presence of changelings, don’t you?”
Parva shrugged. “I have to play my part in this. It would be easier for us if we kept to the old ways, but our queens have decided that integration is the future of our kind, and so we all must do our best to bring it about. My feelings about this don’t matter.”
“Of course they matter!”
“That’s pony talk, Frothy. Despite our similarities, we still differ in some important respects, and my duty to the hive supersedes how I feel about it.”
Frothy scowled, but nodded reluctantly. “I suppose so, but I don’t have to like it. Anyway, you can come, but I can’t guarantee that you’ll be allowed to participate. Mixxy managed to get involved from the beginning, but I can’t say that they’ll let you get away with it also.”
“That’s all I ask.”
* * *
Parva’s presence definitely was not appreciated by some of the traders, but when it was moved to have him excluded, they were outvoted. Parva elected to sit quietly with Mixitkl, occasionally whispering something to her, allowing her to speak for them both so as not to rock the boat too much. Unfortunately, that wasn’t completely effective when it came to Blue Steel, the local smith who had just joined the trader group. The trouble was that although his business should not have been unduly affected due to the fact that changeling citizens needed his goods just as much as ponies did, he just plain hated them with a passion, and refused to deal with them.
“An’ why should I?” he demanded. “Sneaky, deceivin’ bugs! Ya think they’re really yer friends? Ha! They’re liars, every one of ‘em. They never woulda shown their faces if’n it weren’t fer that queen bitch tryin’ ta take over Canterlot. Now they’re makin’ nicey-nicey with us, pretendin’ ta be our friends after deceivin’ us for years. They’re still doin’ it! Ya know half of them are still pretendin’ ta be ponies. Fer all I know, some of yous are bugs too.”
Frothy had to admit that despite his bigoted rant, Blue Steel had one thing right – there was at least one disguised changeling in their midst. Mixitkl still refused to tell him who it was, and he had not figured it out for himself as yet. What disturbed him though was the point the smith had made about deceiving ponies. With all the good will in the world, he still had to concede that a changeling disguise was a deliberate attempt to deceive ponies in the long term. Even so, this would not have bothered him too much if it were not for how intimately changelings had gotten entwined with his family.
Efficacious Remedies sighed and said, “Please, Blue Steel, this group is supposed to be discussing business strategies in light of the changeling demographic, not an excuse to rant about them. Some of us have had modest success implementing suggestions put forth by Mixitkl, and regardless of other possible motives, that is why she is part of our group.”
Frothy’s opinion of Effy had gone up over the past few meetings. It was quite obvious that she still did not like changelings, and yet she did her best to be moderate and fair in dealing with them. This was good because she was a strong-willed pony, and she managed to push through otherwise unpopular ideas. Frankly, if she had not, Frothy would have stopped having these meetings at the café because they would not have been achieving anything.
Blue Steel just folded his forelegs over his chest, scowling but shutting up, and the meeting proceeded without further incident.
* * *
That evening as he prepared to go to bed, he abruptly asked, “Cherry, how do you feel about all those changelings who live here disguised as ponies?”
His wife gave him a quizzical look. “How should I feel about them? They’re a fact of life, and my opinion won’t change that.”
“It doesn’t bother you that there are probably hundreds of changelings in this city, deceiving us into thinking that they’re ponies?”
“You already know several like that; do they bother you?”
“All of those have proven themselves, but they’re only a hoofful in comparison to the number that must be out there. How do we know that they are all like that?”
Cherry sighed in exasperation. “What’s brought this on all of a sudden? I thought that you had gotten over your dislike of changelings once and for all?”
“It’s not a dislike,” Frothy replied in a defensive tone. “I mean, not all ponies are good, so why shouldn’t I suspect the motives of changelings when what they’re best known for is their ability to disguise themselves as ponies? They know we know now, so why do they continue deceiving us?”
“Yes, we know that now, and yet you haven’t thought about it in those terms until now. Why the change?”
“Cherry – our daughter goes out with one regularly, and usually he’s disguised as a unicorn. Aren’t you even a little bit concerned about that?”
“No, I’m not. I have faith in Peach’s judgement, and my impressions of Red Archer backs that up.”
“But that’s the point – changelings are adept at disguising their true nature. Isn’t it possible that we’re only seeing what they want us to see?”
Cherry rolled her blind eyes. “I think that you’re being overprotective of Peach, and letting Blue Steel’s rants fuel your fears. So I suggest you get it out of your system and talk to Guiding Hoof about it at your next counselling session. Or better yet, have a heart to heart talk with Red Archer. Perhaps he can give you both answers and reassurances.”
Frothy thought about that for a moment before nodding. “I think I’ll do just that. It’s about time that he and I had a good talk anyway.” He climbed into bed with Cherry and kissed her on the cheek. “It’s time we found out how serious their relationship is also.”
Cherry snuggled up to him and said, “You’re a good father, dear, but a horribly nosy one. Don’t be too hard on the poor colt.”
‘That’s the problem,’ Frothy thought to himself. ‘He’s not a colt.’
* * *
The next afternoon when Sterling’s squad came in for their usual break, he pulled the sergeant aside.
“Could I ask you to have Red Archer stay behind for a few minutes? I need to have a talk with him.”
Sterling frowned a little. “Can’t it wait until after the patrol? He has duties to perform, and he comes here often enough in his own time to see Peach.”
“Peach is part of the reason that I want to talk to him, so I would rather not try to pull him aside when he comes over. It would be… awkward.”
Sterling considered it, then said, “As a favor to you, okay. However, try to keep it as brief as possible and have him re-join us immediately.”
“Thanks, Sterling. Your next coffee is on the house.”
“Corporal Archer, front and center!” Sterling barked.
The surprised changeling jumped up from the table and came over to the pair. “Yes, sir?”
“Frothy wants to have a word with you. Re-join the squad when he’s done,” Sterling commanded, and then left them to finish his break.
“What’s up, Frothy?” Archer asked in puzzlement.
“Grab your coffee and come with me, please. Mixxy, keep an eye on things. I’ll be with Archer next door for a while.”
“Okay, Frothy,” Mixitkl replied.
The bemused changeling followed Frothy next door into the partially renovated shop. While the major structural changes had been completed, it was still awaiting the fixtures to turn it into a functioning business, so for the moment it was mostly empty. Frothy gestured at one of the few tables that were there. “Have a seat, Archer.”
Red Archer put his coffee on the table and sat down, but then ignored the brew, preferring to wait for Frothy to tell him the reason for this oddly timed conversation.
Frothy sat opposite him and got straight to the point. “How many disguised changelings are there in Canterlot?”
The question surprised Archer, and he replied uneasily, “I… don’t think that I can answer that, Frothy.
“Can’t, or won’t?”
“A bit of both, actually. I’m not privy to every bit of information, but even if I did, it might not be my place to tell you.”
“Then give me your guess,” Frothy insisted.
“In a city this size, with harvesters from five hives, a couple of hundred probably,” Archer replied uncertainly. “Why do you need to know?”
“Why do they remain disguised if you want to be open with us and be a part of the community?”
“I can’t explain the motives for all of them, but I assume that it’s because it’s their identities, and they’re reluctant to let them go.”
“But isn’t that deceiving us? You’re asking us to accept you, but basically hundreds of your kind are lying to us on a daily basis.”
Archer frowned, getting irritated at Frothy’s accusations. “You talk about it as if it’s malicious, but changelings have always done this to blend in harmoniously with ponies.”
“But it’s still a deception,” Frothy insisted.
“Of course it’s a deception, but one that is of mutual benefit. You know this already, so why are you getting so heated up about it now?”
“Because now I can’t be sure of your motives with regards to my daughter!”
“Ah, I see.” Archer thoughtfully took a sip of his coffee before going on. “Have you thought to question your daughter’s motives with regards to me?”
“Huh? What do you mean?”
“What do you think she does when she goes with me?”
Frothy frowned. “I’ve been told that you go to concerts, dances, and other events. Are you telling me now that that this isn’t true?”
“Of course it’s true, but do you think we just do those things and never talk? Or we don’t stop by a restaurant and have dinner without leisurely conversation? Do you even realize why she agreed to go out with me in the first place? It wasn’t just my handsome good looks!”
Archer was still in his natural form, so his slightly smug smile made Frothy’s lips twitch with a hint of a smile before he said, “Okay, I’ll bite – what are her motives, and what do you talk about?”
“Anything and everything, just like most ponies do. However, what we most talk about is changelings. Peach has a nearly insatiable appetite for learning about us, and she uses our dates as opportunities to learn more. It just happens that we have many other interests in common, so we enjoy going out together. The point is though that she asks the questions that need answering instead of standing back and wailing about how little they know about us. Frothy, she wants to understand us better. How many other ponies can you say that of?”
Frothy mulled that over, then said, “So you talk about yourself a lot, but that still doesn’t cover the ones who stay permanently disguised as ponies. You have put yourself out there in public, but those others specifically don’t. What have they to hide? Why can’t they show that they aren’t really ponies?”
“Aren’t they? These are changelings who have made complete lives for themselves in the pony community. They have taken the forms of pegasi, earth ponies, and unicorns, and immersed themselves in pony culture to effectively become one. In a way, they are deceiving themselves as much as real ponies, because to be a harvester, you have to empathize with ponies, to work with them, relax with them, share your lives with them. To ask them to reveal themselves as changelings to everyone is to strip them of their identity. How would you feel if I demanded that you bare yourself to the world without a shred of privacy? That’s what you’re asking of the disguised changelings.”
“I’m not asking them to tell everypony everything about themselves; I only think that they should be honest enough to admit that they are changelings.”
“Seriously? You don’t think that that one little admission wouldn’t totally change their lives? Now you’re being unreasonable.”
“Am I? We’re not the ones who have been hiding for centuries.”
“No, we’re the ones who have been peacefully coexisting with ponies for centuries. The fact that our existence has been revealed to everypony doesn’t change who and what we are. It’s your ignorance of that though that drives your fears. The difference is that some ponies choose to learn about us and dispel their misconceptions, while others embrace their ignorance and let their fear rule them.”
Frothy mulled that over while Archer took the opportunity to drink more of his coffee. The silence stretched on for a minute before Frothy said, “I suppose this is where I should start asking you to tell me more about changelings; specifically how it relates to Peach though. What should I know about a changeling going out with a unicorn? What is she to you? And more to the point, do you have feelings for her?”
Archer put down his cup before replying. “Going out? Not much different from two ponies, really. What she is to me? So far, just a very close friend. As for my feelings – we changelings feel the same gamut of emotions that ponies do, and for mostly the same reasons. Just because we feed on emotional energy doesn’t mean that we can’t feel the same emotions. However, there is one thing that we can’t do – while we can love, we’re incapable of falling in love with somepony before they fall in love with us. We are in some ways a mirror to the emotions of our companions, so if they have no interest in us, neither do we have any interest in them. However, I admit that I would not mind it if Peach did fall in love with me. She’s a beautiful person, and I would feel privileged to be the object of her affection.”
“You can’t fall in love? That sounds like a cop-out to me.”
“No, it’s a fact. Let me give you an example. Do you remember Whirring Cogs, the Blue Changeling that Princess Twilight brought around?”
“How could I forget?!”
“Well, because I was intrigued, I found out a lot more about him afterwards. Did you know that he used to work at the Cloudsdale weather factory before the invasion? He and his best friend used to spend most evenings socializing with mares, but he never formed a relationship with any of them. However, after the invasion he met his future wife in a small village. They formed a relationship and she fell in love with him, but only then could he return that love. It took less than two weeks for him to go from an independent changeling, to a committed partner. Why? Because being able to experience love is one of the most powerful things that can happen to a changeling. That’s why we harvest love energy as a high priority. It gives us the most energy, and feels so good when we consume it. However, eating it pales before actually experiencing it, and I would very much like to do so. Thus, if Peach ever does fall in love with me, I would do my utmost to ensure that she never has reason to stop loving me. In the meantime, I will continue to be her good friend. Have I answered your question sufficiently?”
Frothy found it a bit hard to wrap his head around the concept of being unable to fall in love without being loved first. “I... think so,” he admitted. “But now I’m wondering what else about changelings is so different from us.”
Archer smiled. “Now you’re thinking like Peach, instead of like a close-minded pony. So many of you tend to think of us as weird-looking ponies, but we’re not, and we’re very different in several ways. Yes, we enjoy most of the things that you do, we feel the same emotions as you do, eat much the same foods, but we aren’t ponies. Let me ask you something – you hear me referring to ourselves as harvesters, but doesn’t that imply that there must be other types of changelings?”
“I thought that just meant that it’s your job.”
“It is, but it’s also what we are. Although all drones are capable of shape-changing, only harvesters are capable of making a sophisticated alter-ego and blending in with the pony population. Others in our hives are soldiers, or tunnel builders, or nursery attendants, or gatherers, and so forth. What we are defines our job, unlike ponies who choose their career.”
“But our cutie marks define us in a similar manner,” Frothy objected.
“Do they? Instead of a owning a café, could you not have been a coffee importer? Or perhaps a grower? You could have been working just as a barista instead of owning your own shop. Your cutie marks are a very broad guide, but for us, we’re bred to a task.”
“So you never really had a choice then? That’s awful.”
“Not really. Being bred to a task means that we are also very good at that task, and enjoy doing it. However, how we accomplish that task is still up to us to choose. Like many others from my hive, I chose the Royal Guard because that best fit my personality, but there are Reds in many other occupations. So while we’re very different from you in one way, we do have something in common there also.”
“I see. So where are these other… breeds? How many do you think there are in Canterlot?”
“None,” Archer said with finality.
“None whatsoever? Are you sure of that?”
“Almost certainly. Most other breeds either never leave the hive, or keep close nearby. Soldiers guard it and look out for possible dangers to the hive. Gatherers get food such as fruit, roots, fish, and umm… various sources of meat,” Archer said as delicately as possible. Even so, Frothy looked a little queasy at the thought. “However, even gatherers won’t stray too far from the hive. If they meet any ponies, it will be by accident, and they won’t hang around. Interacting with ponies is the job of the emotion harvesters.”
“I’m pretty sure that I’ve met some of those soldiers,” Frothy said sourly.
“During the invasion? Yeah, probably, but that was an aberration. I know that there aren’t any Red Changeling soldier types here, and I’m virtually certain that’s true of the other four hives also.”
“Peach was fortunate that she was visiting an aunt out of town when the invasion happened, so she never had to see what they were like. Hopefully she will never meet any.”
“Oh, she met some when she visited my hive.”
“She WHAT?!” Frothy shouted, jumping up and staring accusingly at Archer.
The changeling swallowed nervously and said, “She… didn’t tell you about that, did she?” When all he got was a furious glare from Frothy, he continued, “I don’t think I was supposed to mention that.”
“And why shouldn’t her father know what crazy ideas get in her head?” Frothy demanded.
“Hey now! It’s not crazy at all. If there was any danger, I would never have conveyed her request for an interview with Queen Carpacia.”
“Why did she do that?” Frothy asked incredulously.
“I told you – she wants to learn all about us. Our queen agreed to the interview because she has heard about all the work that Peach has done to try to improve pony-changeling relations. It’s quite an honor for Peach. Very few ponies have ever gotten to visit the hive. Princess Twilight Sparkle is the only one to have been more than once.”
Frothy sank back to the floor with a groan, laying his head on the table and covering his eyes with one foreleg as if he could make it all go away by doing so. He realized though that it was pointless blaming Archer; his strong-willed daughter would probably have found another way eventually.
“Look at it this way, Frothy – you were concerned about changelings hiding things from you, but your own daughter is uncovering those very things, and far from causing any problems, she’s earning a great deal of respect in the changeling community.”
“Is that supposed to make me feel better?” Frothy mumbled.
“Yes, it should. We changelings excel at some things, and one is looking after our own. Peach has earned that honor, and whenever there’s a changeling nearby, she will always have a protector. She was not the first though. A few others have been declared honorary members of the hive.”
“Oh? Do I know them?” Frothy asked dully.
Archer grinned. “You should know at least one. You’ve seen him every time you’ve looked in a mirror.”
Frothy’s head shot up from the table. “Me? But why?”
“Don’t downplay your role, Frothy. While perhaps not a total success, your acceptance of changelings as normal citizens of the community at the True Brew Café made a big leap forward in our relations with the pony citizens. Certainly there’s a lot more work to be done, but it all had to start somewhere, and with someone. Some ordinary citizen rather than a Princess or ambassador, and that pony was you.”
“I only ever wanted to treat you with the same respect that I give all my customers,” Frothy protested.
“And that’s all we ever wanted from ponies – respect and acceptance for changelings, whether they be hidden or out in the open like myself. While we may differ in many ways, we are all citizens of Equestria, my friend, and proud to be so.” Archer finished the last of his coffee, and then got up and picked up his helmet telekinetically. “I really must get back to my squad now. If you wish to talk more about this later when I’m off-duty, let me know.”
Frothy wordlessly watched Archer leave, his mind awhirl with mixed emotions. He was still trying to sort out what he had learned and how he felt about it all when his wife came looking for him some time later.
Cherry’s horn glowed as it sent out magical feelers that touched on the various objects in the room, enabling her to unerringly navigate the room despite her blindness. She came to a stop by Frothy and asked, “Are you alright, dear? We were getting concerned when you didn’t return.”
Frothy snorted gently with wry humor and nuzzled Cherry reassuringly. “Darling, you’re never going to believe who is an honorary changeling…”
* * * * * * * *
oh jeez... this is really quite a revelation for him, innit? I really must know, though... does that apply for ALL changelings, or just the reds?
His and our minds are now blown.
5164178 It was a unanimous agreement between the hives.
Seems like a bit of a copout answer when it comes to the deception. Benevolence does not excuse the deception. The same as a Benevolent Tyrant is still a Tyrant.
The answers they've given is pretty much avoiding answering the key detail, namely that prejudice came about not through their own actions, but that the deception came about as another nation attacked. Had they introduced themselves earlier it would have made things easier to actually integrate, but now things have to come about they have to deal with those who still know of them as "That species that invaded and basically gave PTSD to a nation", and having done so they are only doing this to avoid being lynched. This is not benevolent good will to show themselves, this is a publicity stunt.
And as a result, many never would have been revealed, just still a second life to themselves, and many of them hidden if they commit crimes can escape by using said deception as well. Ponies can be identified as they'll never shift away as such, but if a Changling commits a crime of such a caliber they can easily cause deception to get away, as has been shown many changlings can't tell other changling hive's as well, so even they wouldn't be able to help in said situation.
Not a huge surprise in my opinion. The new detail is that they have the concept of declaring someone an honorary member of the hive, once we have that then it makes sense that Frothy would be chosen give all the work he has done for them with the cafe.
It does bring to mind a few questions, though. Is this just the red hive specifically? Or all of them? And how do the hives and/or the queens choose who gets this honor, does it have to be unanimous?
Apparently Cherry is a changeling as well, since she morphed into Peach halfway through the conversation.
Peach has been a busy bee.
thats a little creepy
i think you meant cherry
why must everypone be so god damn FABULOUS~<3!?!?!
5164423 That's a big oops on my part. I have a bad habit of putting in the wrong names. Fixed now, thanks.
5164580 Umm... yeah.
5164292 Actually I showed that changelings CAN tell which hive the other is from. As for the rest, I think that you missed the point that changelings think differently from ponies, and what would make sense for a one species, doesn't for the other. There's never going to be a perfect solution anyway because it is no more reasonable to force changelings to be exactly like ponies, than it is for ponies to be exactly like changelings.
...this sentence reads a bit oddly. Should it have been:
5165543 True. I finished this late last night before I went to bed, and didn't quite polish it up properly. I'll fix that now.
need MOAR
I imagine that more than a few changelings become the disguise. There is a quote that I don't remember the author the gist of it is look at the people that you surround yourself with. In five years you will be just like them. Saw it happening all the time growing up. Nice friends that I saw their other friends were jerks and sooner rather than later they became jerks themselves.
5165501
Sure you can think differently, and that's fine with that...But you're trying to seem 'normal' and expect everyone to treat you normally while your treating them without the medium of respect the changlings expect for themselves in a city whose laws they are benefiting from.
If someone's been two faced and expects me to treat them with anything regarding respect, they aren't going to get much in the way of it because if they aren't going to treat me similarly, why should I respect them?
Just food for thought really, of course I just hate two faced deceivers but still.
I like this story, I really do but there's something that's been bugging me about it for a while and I think I've finally pined it down.
The changelings are too boring. Consistently all the changeling characters have always been calm, collect voices of reason. Not once have any of them gotten angry, upset, noticeably excited, been stubborn, shown signs of aggregation, insulted anyone, acted wrongfully or made a significant mistake. I think the most that's happened is they've gotten mildly offended, the only one I recall so much as raising his voice was Cogs. It's unnatural and makes them feel quite dull. You said right here in this chapter that they can feel the same range of emotion so why not show it? That needs to include the darker and more proactive ones. How things are? They're starting to feel too perfect to me.
It also makes the ponies look like a collection of idiots and ass hats. Not once has a pony and changeling been in opposition and the pony been in the right and changeling in the wrong.
On another note, I'm fairly sure you're planning to address this in the future but your going to need a good explanation as to why they can't fall in love before some one else falls for them. It's also going to have to be a good one otherwise something that significant is just going to, like Frothy says, feel like a cop out and contribute to that too perfect vibe I'm getting from your incarnation of changelings.
There, hope that wasn't too harsh but this has been rubbing me the wrong way for a while. Hope I've been helpful and not come off as condensing. I look forward to how things progress, best of luck with it.
5165900
Seconded. While I like changelings, it rubs me wrong way that they're not even once were wrong, mistaken or looked like a fools. Its always pony who does this. That's racist
And it does look strange.
5165900 The story so far has been concentrating on the attempts to integrate changelings into pony society, so of course you're seeing the positive side of things. As I get my thoughts together and progress with the story, I intend to show the bumps in the road when things don't go to plan, and yes, the changelings will be in the wrong.
As for the falling in love bit, I wanted to make that a quirk of their nature, to make them significantly different from ponies. You're asking me to justify it in pony (i.e. human) terms, but they're not ponies (humans).
5166750 Sorry, the inverse does not necessarily follow. However, the point is moot because as I made pains to point out, Frothy was not completely drained of his negative emotions.
5166211 A whole hive invaded Canterlot - how fallible and in the wrong do you want them to be? The other hives are desperately trying to prove that they aren't all like that, so they're showing their best side. Eventually things will normalise.
5165681 Is it really two-faced though? Ponies assume that other ponies are changelings, it's not the job of changelings to dispel every fear that they have.
Yeah, there will be a disconnect as long as changelings continue to disguise themselves, but it really is a sense of identity for them. This is someone they've been their entire lives. A self that they created that soon became truth for them.
Look at Cogs, he truly became a pony. And he had an extreme fear of outing himself because that identity became a part of him. He didn't want to stay hidden to hurt anyone, but because he was terrified of what would happen if he didn't.
And let's not forget the reactions that one could expect from ponies. Many 'Lings have pony friends and families that they would hat to lose, and that's a huge fear to deal with on a daily basis. They realize that many see what they've done as a deception and betrayal of trust. And they're not willing to risk losing that.
5166797
That never happened in your story. It is comething of 'what was before story starts', fact that you mention, but never explicitly write out. But bigotry and stupidity of ponies you do write out - but nothing of the sorts from changelings. So, we see ponies that always look like they are wrong here and oh-so-good , oh-so thoughtful, caring changelings that always logical, always calm, rational, acting like they are single cloned being. That's really boring.
Yeah, they are 'trying to earn respect', but do they show respect to ponies? Do you?
5166578 Yes I want you to justify the quirk but I don't get what you mean by in "human" terms. There is a significant difference and so far we have no good reason for why they work that way other then 'it's just the way they are'. I'm sorry but that's just not good enough for me. There has to be a reason why they are inhibited from feeling certain deep emotions and why they can only be triggered in such a way.
5166823
So they continue to lie and deceive in order to keep up what they want then? That's the problem, they aren't really showing anything at all and the ponies have to suck it up and take whatever they want to give.
5167259
Kinda like a whole race of ghandi's so far while Ponies end up with the villain or idiot ball because all these oh so loveable changling's aren't doing anything wrong because every single one is such a good person.
5168047 What do they have to look forward to by being honest? Places like True Brew are few and far between. You have more ponies like Blue Steel, who let their emotions and paranoia run their lives.
Is it right that they hide? No. But it's fair and, more than that, necessary.
5168100
Considering that everyone was forced to reveal after a rogue hive basically made their entire race look like a festive emotion sucking bunch of leeches, had they actually shown themselves off long ago rather then in the necessity that they do so else everyone doesn't play "Burn the Changling" they would have allowed themselves for far better integration, rather then after a war and a sudden paranoiac discovery that oh hey that guys a changeling!
Also, blue steel had quite a few good points that never did get shot down, and yes many will care but at the same time it's for the good of both of them. Hiding what they are was what caused this entire issue to blossom forth after all.
Well then, wasn't that a revelation. Yay for more information! You can never have too much information.
Unless you know what your parents are doing behind closed doors. Or their parents.
AAAAAAAANYWAY
Lovely chapter, the character interaction was great, and I really like the way you reveal the way you made the world to be
5167259
5167700
The thing is though, we're only getting one setting: The Cafe, where the changelings are mostly accepted and are trying their hardest to keep themselves from acting just like the more extremist characters on either side. There may be times where the changelings get just as angry as the ponies, but we're not focusing on those places, our vision is centered on a Cafe that has pretty well-adjusted harvesters and ponies trying to get along.
If the story perhaps centered more on the evolving changeling relations than the cafe then I don't doubt we would see stupidity and calm from both sides. But it isn't designed that way, I'm sure that if someone asked Goldfur if they could do the side-story that focuses on the evolving relations between both sides then we could see more of a balance of bigotry and stupidity on both sides.
5168116 True, the situation may have been avoided had certain steps be taken in the past.
But I'm looking at the here and now. The problem at hand is the attitudes towards changelings as well as the attitudes of changelings. Ponies refuse to accept changelings as members of their society due to a bias they have. While Changelings want to be accepted for who they are. Meaning the majority don't want to change their ways.
We're at an impasse that both sides refuse to back down from. What needs to happen now is for ponies to let go of the bias and at least try to see things from the 'Ling point of view. While the changelings need to accept the fact that certain sacrifices need to be made to live in Equestria v. their respective hives.
5168554
Which would be an excellent point...Except my only issue thus far is that everything has been hamhandedly in favor of the Changlings within the story, even the resolutions to help things have been rather for them as well, such as that one pony not really loving her husband so losing it simply just made them better off..
Not to mention it's gotten rather obvious who we should dislike, even ponies that don't want to deal with changlings at all will toss out a few speciest remarks while the Changlings have been perfect within the story, while we don't really see a viewpoint of ponies who actually have legitimate concerns against changlings either, with exception of those who deal with pony bias because of changlings coming near..Which just makes it still Ponies Bad, Changlings good..
5168447 I understand that but with a story of such length it all starts to feel very one sided without such contrast or background actually in the story. Such an attitude may be sufficient for a one shot or a story a couple of chapters long as it's expected that there's a lot more going on in the background. Here with a much deeper and comprehensive story it leaves the atmosphere lacking and deducts from the story. All it would need to fix it is a few details, such as Frothy walking past a protest with a heated argument going on, a news paper clipping of a pony and changeling arrested for brawling, a changeling that stubbornly dismisses most ponies as xenophobes or other small miscellaneous things to give a better sense of the big picture.
5168632
5168678
I think the story may be taking a direction into the violence and explosiveness that you guys are looking for. Last time we saw her, Mixitktl snapped at Effy and many of the other ponies. And I get the feeling she won't be the last. We're now hearing Parva complaining about his job.
The direction the story seems to be taking may be getting close to the nastier side of the changeling movement.
5168678 And I would completely be happy seeing something like that. Background details like that do make the story better, but the characters we see in the story themselves still have to act like they are designed to.
5168963
I'm not asking for explosiveness or even violence, I just want a more balanced viewpoint. Even the viewpoints you just mentioned were because of 'bad ponies' rather then as a result, and may make it seem justified for any changeling attack because all the ponies are assholes and deserve it. As I mentioned, "ponies bad and irrational changlings good and sensible. "
5169188
5168963
Gotta love your Discussion. Mind if I join?
True the Changelings end up looking like the "good guys" and it is clearly that they are the ones here depicted as troubled. However, they are creatures of image, and though they do show feelings and express opinions their way of dealing with them is different from the ponies. To quote Parva:
One of the things that really clash here is the Changeling's culture. For Celestia knows how long they've been living in secrecy among ponies. In that regard they aren't so different from everypony else: "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
In other words, while some might have felt that living disguised wasn't the best approach, customs, culture and policies worked against them. Remember the Changelings keep referring to their old ways, like it was some sort of near perfect system.
While the bad among Ponies are left rather obvious. That among Changelings are more between the lines. We don't "meet" the "bad" Changelings as readily as the "bad" Ponies, because if the bad Changelings were the slightest obvious, it be bad talk for the hives. (Not saying that a "bad" Changeling won't show up, but it'll likely be a queen and hive void one.)
5169188
I didn't mean you were warmongering or anything. I meant that I think we soon will see the angry and distasteful side of the changelings soon. A side, that I agree, hasn't been prominent enough for us to analyze. But I just wanted to point out that their is a valid reason the changelings continue to hide, as their is a valid reason for ponies to fear/hate them. However, fear on both sides seems to be a large reason for both party's misgivings.
5169373
Not at all, jump right in.
To add to that, the other hives have been peaceful and helpful for the most part. I'm sure outliers exist, but it is in the best interest of the 'lings to have ponies happy. Plus, it was the work of one hive that caused the invasion, not all the hives.
I think it's fair that there is mistrust after the invasion, but I think both sides need to be willing to change and make the sacrifices necessary to move on.
5168963 I'm not really wanting 'violence and explosiveness' just a realistic verity of character. Maybe your right but I'm not convinced it will get so heated as to be called such. That's just my speculation though.
5168988 Unfortunately the changeling characters are all acting the same way more or less and are painfully devoid of any character flaws. Overall it makes them feel flat and uninteresting and I especially worry because these are key ingredients to the dreaded Mary Sue.
finally got to the updated point of your stories and find myself wanting more ^^ I like how you write, it does not feel contrived, and instead flows with a lucidity I don't often see in fanfictions. please keep up the good work ^^
I'm thinking this should make Official status and get a Graphic novel series of its own. This story never ceases to both entertain, and make one feel and think about real-life issues. *Salutes*
5170354
Well, where you see Mary Sues, I see a bunch of 'lings who have an ingrained ability and practice in playing their roles. You might say they play the part a little too well.
Remember that all those 'lings who does decide to go forth "unmasked" have a huge pressure from all sides to always appear on their very best behaviour.
Actually, the only changeling characters we've really been given any insight to, is the soldier type Archer, and Mixkitt.
One of which has shown that there is a limit to just how far "her" patience goes. She works as a waitress, that got to take some patience.
5176057 I don't see Mary Sues. Not yet anyway. As for the way you see thing well that's good. However for me the story failed to properly communicate any stress or pressure they may have been under leaving them as flat and uninteresting as I feel they are.
There were also a lot more changelings then that included in the story. There was the physiologist fellow and also green changeling that was Frothy's friend from before the invasion, unfortunately their names escape me but there have been more introduced through out the story. The sample size isn't big but it's by no means small either, I would have expected some greater variation in reaches character by now.
Anyway, nothing personal but I'm getting rather tired of harping on like this. I think I've said my fair shear and I hate having to chew apart a story I really like just to defend my critique so no more from me on the topic.
5176141
I like a good discussion, and I get where you're coming from.
So lets park this thread and just enjoy a great read
5176166 Yeah, I like a good discussion too however I fined it gets a bit encroaching when it comes to debating an authors work in his own comments section.
So yes, lets do that.
Frothy sighed, "Well, I didn't think they did, what with so many ponies having jobs that didn't match their marks, like Hayseed Turnip Truck and Cheerilee. Buuuuut, then Magical Mystery Cure said that our cutie marks basically control our minds or something and we cannot disobey their compulsory mental commands."
Archer huhs... "Well, my point has just been defenestrated."
That's what MMC is telling me...
5186406
My theory / headcanon on that episode is that the incomplete spell didn't just swap their cutie marks, but also swapped, scrambled, and swiss-cheesed their memories as well. Rarity's memories of being a seamstress, for example, got swapped out with Rainbow Dash's memories of being a weather manager, leading her to think she's a weather pony – but the swap was incomplete, leaving her with her underlying personality (her "passion for fashion") and skills (her eye for aesthetics and artistic sense) with Dash's memories patched haphazardly on top of it, which is why she can't actually do the things her memories insist she's supposed to be doing. Had her cutie mark remained the same, it might have occurred to her to wonder why a weather pony had gemstones for a cutie mark, and clued her in that something was amiss – but since her mark became that of a weather phenomenon (cloud and lightning), it was "telling" her that her mistaken belief (due to her swiss-cheesed memory) that she was a weather pony was correct despite her obvious inability to actually do the job properly. Pinkie Pie's memories got swiss-cheesed, and the holes filled in with pieces of Applejack's memories, leading Pinkie to think that she's an apple farmer because that what she remembers being; and because the trio of apples on her flanks confirms what she (erroneously) remembers, she doesn't question it, even though her personality and skill set (her "true" special talent, which has been masked by the memory-scramble) is completely wrong for the task. And so on.
So, "what my cutie mark is telling me" wasn't so much "what my cutie mark is forcing me to be", as "what my cutie mark seems to be confirming that I am, since it matches what my swiss-cheesed memory insists that my special talent is."
It could even be argued that the memory swap caused the cutie-mark swap, and not the other way around; if the memories that got scrambled and patchworked on top of each other included their cutie-mark epiphanies, then the reason Rainbow Dash ends up with Fluttershy's cutie mark is because her swiss-cheesed memory remembers having Fluttershy's cutie-mark epiphany, not her own.
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it, anyway.
5207767 Problem is, the rest of the town didn't seem to recall what jobs they held either. It implied that Twilight was the only one whose memory wasn't scrambled. That gave the spell immensely powerful psychic effects and, by virtue of that, implied that the Cutie Marks themselves directly affect the mind.
5211823
Honestly, they fast-forwarded through the events of that episode so quickly (it really needed to be a 2-part story), I'm not sure it's possible to say for sure whether anyone else in Ponyville remembered anything or not.
5213385 That storyline required so many changes to the interpersonal dynamics AND the social order of the nation, it could have taken all of Season 3 to flesh out properly.