Sitting here, patiently waiting for reactions to Celestia in this episode before I invest my time on it...
Also, willing to discuss it after watching...

5955258 One word: Daybreaker. That alone was one of the high points.

5955267 Not really convinced... She raises the sun... Big deal. Did they give her some "cool power" like Luna's that justify her place in Equestria? Or she still just "the princess"?

5955285 Oh trust me, it is definitely worth the wait. But as River Song always says... Spoilers.

5955285 Not…exactly. They gave her Luna's powers, temporarily. Because apparently that's how Cutie Marks work. Somehow. AND she needed Luna's encouragement to actually use them, because…friendship? Celestia's "power" is apparently smiling, but she does essentially do all the princess-y, diplomatic things we would expect; she keeps the kingdom running and ensures the happiness and protection of ponies in their waking hours, as Luna ensures their peace and mental well-being in their dreams. However, Daybreaker does give some support to the idea that however powerful Celestia really is, she's holding back, so there's that?

Violence and explosions!
...wait. Did anything actually explode or did she just light stuff on fire?
Guess I have to go watch it again.

I am not happy about this split release thing, and the way that half of the people around are treating it like a regular release (Knighty's episode thread) while the other half aren't (EQD's Saturday morning episode streams). I woke up a bit surprised to see that E10 was on today's docket (pleasantly), got excited, went to EQD, and found out that E7 is actually today's episode.

Do I search out E10? Or do I try avoiding all spoilers for the next month in order to catch E10 when it actually comes out?

Yeah...

Let's post that again.

5955335 Yeah. Thanks.

I've heard that the episode description was slightly inaccurate. I hope that's true.

5955258

Daybreaker just... casually kick Nightmare Moon flank? In one freaking spell?

I get the feeling that the writers for Season 7 have a serious case of writer's flu.

Some of the fanfictions I've read over the years handled Celestia and Luna's sisterly relationship much better than what was presented in A Royal Problem (perhaps as some kind of middle finger to us fanfiction writers).

this

5955258 , Might be waiting a while for my reaction. That episode still hasn't aired yet where I live.

Oh, and one thing... If Celestia in Full Battle Mode fight with same spells and abilities as Daybreak... Then if she back in season two go all out on Cryssie she would more or less cook everyone inside a castle alive?

So, knowing that I wouldn't like the episode, I decided to watch it. Here are my thoughts on it, as a I put on EqD...
Well, it's long and sad.

I thought I wouldn't have liked this episode, but I actually did. I liked this episode. It's actually Celestia that I hate in it. I think this episode did two terrible mistakes, but first what it did right.

Starlight Glimmer and Twilight are at the top of their form. They were funny, understandable and entertaining.

Some of the visuals were great. Not outstanding, but great. I like that they tried to make Daybreaker's magic impressive, but a flash is... Not gonna cut it after the cartoon has already done.

The voice acting was great. Nicole's lines as Daybreaker AND as Celestia were very good and it must've been one hell of a recording session.

What I think is the first problem is how childish the two sisters are. Problems that people have daily become a threat so that the map sends someone to fix it. Why? Compared to dragons, hydras, crazy yaks this is ridiculous. But Celestia is the worst. I can't understand how Celestia's fans are praising this episode. (I'm not judging anyone here, it's just... well, you'll see.)

I think it was a terrible decision to switch their places. Instead of seeing the two working together and learning, we see the two being awful at each other's job. Everyone ended up looking bad and it's just mean spirited and wasn't even funny. But the real problem is that Celestia's job was too childish. Even for the cartoon. Of course DHX couldn't show real problems of ruling a country because that would've been too political. But then, if you can't tell a story, tell another one. Celestia's job is smelling flowers, talking to ponies, smiling... And that is tiring for her. C'mon... Even children know that real rulers, especially monarchic queens (something that Celestia isn't...) deal with real tough decisions. The episode has nothing worthy of Celestia's rank to show. No outmaneuvering of political opponents, no use of her powers to help someone in need (something Luna does daily), no court hearings, listening to the little pony's problems. No hard government decisions. And Celestia simply has no magical power like Luna's dreamwalking or Cadance's love magic. Or Twilight magical prowess. Why did they leave Celestia so bare on that? What even IS her talent? Just moving the sun around? That ponies in the past have done anyway? She's supposed to be some badass spellcaster, in their own story, a very powerful being. DHX couldn't think of anything for Celestia? Nothing relating to the day, or light? Healing powers? Blessing crops? Giving her subjects good luck? Blessing weddings? Curing diseases? Figuring out the best job for each pony? Nothing? Why? They made Celestia the most pathetic sun-related character I've ever seen in my life. Why are ponies impressed with her to the point they swear on her name?

In contrast, Luna's job is exactly what we've seen in other episodes. Except we've seen Luna doing it and being damn good at it. It just made Celestia look incompetent. It was sad that Celestia sucks so hard at anything other than smiling. I do that everyday, working in a clinic and it's not even part of the job. Most people I know do that. Why did they do it to Celestia?

The second problem is the whole Daybreaker thing. I feared the notion of showing Celestia as the villain, because I knew the cartoon would mess it up. I loved it in the cartoon and even made it myself in fanfiction, but in the episode, it's just Starlight Glimmer's dream, not even Celestia "dealing with something internal", like Jim Miller likes to put it. And them she started fighting Nightmare Moon... No! It should've been Luna and Celestia fighting it off in a safe environment, not two non-existing entities that Starlight Glimmer's mind created.

Then there is Daybreaker's line about how powerful Celestia knows she really is... No! It's Starlight's dream! Not Celestia's inner demon! Why DHX?! Why?! And don't call Celestia powerful. She's not. She folds like a wet tissue whenever she needs to fight. And also don't say how terrible it would've been to have Celestia go all out when another episode showed that Luna's Nightmare Moon was doing just fine by herself and no pony even cared. Why?

I'm glad a lot of people liked it, but to me it just put another nail on Celestia's coffin. What a shame. Someone call me when Celestia gets called by the map to fix a problem. Maybe them she'll get some justice done to her.

This is pretty much exactly why I haven't been fond of the idea of a Celestia episode. It certainly wasn't half-bad in execution, but the premise was as trivial and foolish as could have been expected.

5955800 I can see your point but here what I think the episode was trying to do. You remember that Luna how says how perfect she is , I mean has been part of Luna's jealous for the longest time. But as we see from this episode Celestia has act perfect all the time wheather she likes it or not because if she doesn't the ponies fall apart. Remember, earlier how Twilight acted when she heard the princess had problems , yea and she has not time to think her guilt or anything and Luna has time to consider. Celestia doesn't. And yes Daybreaker did come from Starlight but why Celestia so afraid it because I can't help but feel she does secretly think what if it was me.

5955800
Not sure why you're always so impressed by Luna's powers, considering she's doing something that Equestria did just fine without for her thousand year absence. Her job is pretty much a luxury, helping ponies sleep soundly isn't all that important in the long run. I was actually really hoping they would say something about it. She has 2 jobs one of witch is at best a nice luxury and the other of which Celestia can do herself just fine (hell she even said raising the moon was easier.)
Also that list of Celestia's job was hilariously long and they only showed a fraction of what her duties are.

5956190 Not impressed by Luna's. Underwhelmed by Celestia's. The point is that Luna is the only one that can do hers. And Celestia is just lacking.

Yes, the list was hilariously long. And also pointless. It said nothing about how well Celestia actually does HER job.

5956156 I understand what the episode was trying to do. I just think that it did it poorly.

5956071 The problem isn't that it is a Celestia episode. It isn't. The problem is that I think it was poorly executed on Celestia's part. Though I have to admit that it lowered my hopes that I'll ever see a nice Celestia episode. Because the cartoon just doesn't care.

Good Episode.

5955258

HOLY SHIT THIS IS THE MOST AWESOME THING EVEEEEEEEEEEEER!

Ehem. Aside from Daybreaker totally rocking, I generally enjoyed this episode. It was really nice to see more Celestia characterization, particularly dropping the serene facade. Plus, she apparently makes her own breakfasts, just for fun. That was a nice detail.

It was also interesting to learn more about how Equestria is actually run - Celestia apparently dealing with all the administrative stuff, which does make sense when I think about it.

5955800

What I think is the first problem is how childish the two sisters are. Problems that people have daily become a threat so that the map sends someone to fix it. Why? Compared to dragons, hydras, crazy yaks this is ridiculous

Actually, the issue being so minor made sense to me. Celestia and Luna wouldn't have considered it a serious problem because to them, a serious problem is usually the kind of thing that results in war and chaos on an national level. So, they both just resolved to bear it, even though it was enough to strain their relationship.

And while that would be trivial for most ponies, well, they're not most ponies. They're Celestia and Luna. This was exactly the kind of thing that created Nightmare Moon the first time. Bad communication is actually dangerous with those two.

And Celestia simply has no magical power like Luna's dreamwalking or Cadance's love magic. Or Twilight magical prowess. Why did they leave Celestia so bare on that? What even IS her talent? Just moving the sun around? That ponies in the past have done anyway? She's supposed to be some badass spellcaster, in their own story, a very powerful being. DHX couldn't think of anything for Celestia? Nothing relating to the day, or light? Healing powers? Blessing crops? Giving her subjects good luck? Blessing weddings? Curing diseases? Figuring out the best job for each pony? Nothing?

Well, it has previously been somewhat implied she has some kind of clairvoyance or prophetic power. (Having a vision of Tirek being on the loose.) I've always assumed that's her special ability: She is the light that illuminates Equestria's destiny. If you think about it, that explains a lot about the way she dealt with previous threats to the kingdom. (Apparently knowing exactly where Twilight needed to be to stop Nightmare Moon, knowing ahead of time that something would attack during the royal wedding, seemingly risking Sombra's return just to test Twilight, etc.)

It only comes into play during serious incidents, though, so it wouldn't be something Luna would experience during an ordinary day.

I wanna punch whoever wrote the description for A Royal Problem, they gave me intense anxiety for TWO weeks for nothing. Cuz' this episode was GOOD!
You guys have no idea how flippin' happy I am right now!
THEY DIDN'T FIGHT AT ALL! It was just a little spat that Twilight and Starlight blew out of proportion!
Some people will probably hate Starlight because of that, but I love her for it!
This was so much better than Friends Forever #38!
I love that Star and Twi were the ones blowing things out of proportion. Maybe they're the ones who wrote that inaccurate episode description?
I think Celestia and Luna eventually would have decided to switch jobs on their own. I'm sure they could do that spell too. Starlight just sped up the process.

A thought on Daybreaker - given Celestia's lack of experience with Luna's dream magic, how do we know for sure it was just her dream Daybreaker was in? For all we know, it could've been Celestia's nightmare bleeding over into Starlight's. Losing control of a restrained and carefully controlled power so you don't annihilate the world seems a very real concern.

5956237 People have been telling me that ll over. Serisouly, find me the line of dialogue that mentions this is true and I'll give you an upvote because it would REALLY improve the episode for me.
5956209 That does look nice.

5956243 No line of dialogue does. It's just a theory.

5956195

The problem is that I think it was poorly executed on Celestia's part.

Really don't understand why you think that it was poorly executed. This episode more or less stated that Celestia does all the important things in the country while Luna just as unimportant as ever.
And in general... Celestia is a ruler, not a goddess. She teaches how to fish, instead of giving fishies around.

5955800 Sorry to be like that but: Do you really need a frikking stat-sheet to understand what Celestia is all about? her entire job and life is about putting up a veneer of perfection, so much so that even a heartbeat of letting her mask drop can impact innocents to a damning degree. And she has no time or chance to correct things after passing since there are already 12 other things to do. Seeing some dumb magical light show would have just detracted from what this was about: Celestia suffers for her people and there are no magical tricks to fall back on. Her daily strife isn't solved with a glowing horn but through sheer patience, cunning and charisma.
Sure, it would have been nice to see her magical potential, but that simply isn't what her daily grind is about. She is leader. She kept Equestria peaceful and prosperous for 1000 years and that's not something you do with spellcasting.
(And healing the sick? She builds hospitals! Blessing crops? Ever heard of farming subsidies and irrigation systems? Because those are things that last!)
Seriously, this was a great look into Celestia's daily grind and a very interesting suggestion of what her evil form could be about (Nightmare Moon was about chaining her subjects to her whims, Daybreaker is about breaking her chains and leaving only ashes behind).

5956244 Shame. I really like that theory.
5956254 The intention was to say that. I'm not complaining that she rules the country. I'm complaining that the episode did a terrible job of showing how important that is. And I can't believe no one else cares that Celestia is just a bureaucrat. We don't even know how good she is at her job. Also, it's a cartoon about fantasy. All of the princesses have some magical ability. Luna, for example didn't have hers until they gave it to her in season 3. What about Celestia? Nothing? All she does is ruling the country. By smiling. Fine. How good is she at ruling the country? Don't know. Not important. Don't care. Finally, why does this argument about "goddess" always pop up? I'm not asking that Celestia be that... Though no one is complaining that Luna certainly fits that. Not to mention Cadance and her love magic. Comparing to Celestia's smiles... Oh, please.
5956296

her entire job and life is about putting up a veneer of perfection, so much so that even a heartbeat of letting her mask drop can impact innocents to a damning degree. And she has no time or chance to correct things after passing since there are already 12 other things to do. Seeing some dumb magical light show would have just detracted from what this was about: Celestia suffers for her people and there are no magical tricks to fall back on. Her daily strife isn't solved with a glowing horn but through sheer patience, cunning and charisma.

Is that what happened in the episode? No. Luna screwed up her... Smiling... And all she got was a headline in the newspaper. Off the top of my head: Luna had to keep her smile while talking to some foreign envoy, and the then the headline is "Equestria on the brink of war because Princess Luna disrespects XXX". Even with that smiling bulshit this is better.

Even if we're supposed to think that Celestia is so good at smiling that she manages to solve any situation, it's still not what the episode told us. It told us that Luna is bad at it. And this is why I didn't like the switching cutie marks idea to begin with. This sort of thing makes both characters look bad without showing how good they are at their job. Except Luna is damn good at her dreamwalking. Celestia is bad at it and I don't know how good she is at her actual job.

She kept Equestria peaceful and prosperous for 1000 years and that's not something you do with spellcasting.
(And healing the sick? She builds hospitals! Blessing crops? Ever heard of farming subsidies and irrigation systems? Because those are things that last!)

How do you know any of that? How do you know that Celestia is a good ruler? Equestria is a mess because the cartoon needs it to be. How do you know that SHE built any hospital when cities have their mayors? How do you know that Celestia implemented any sort of farming subsidies? Applejack never said anything about that in her farm. And those were examples. It could've been anything. Even that smiling lazy BS if they had done it right.

Seriously, this was a great look into Celestia's daily grind and a very interesting suggestion of what her evil form could be about (Nightmare Moon was about chaining her subjects to her whims, Daybreaker is about breaking her chains and leaving only ashes behind).

I wish. Suppose I can rule Equestria, as I'm pretty good at keeping a smiling face and get job done day after day. I bet most people here could. And then there's Daybreaker. Starlight Glimmer sure has good imagination.

5956209

It only comes into play during serious incidents, though, so it wouldn't be something Luna would experience during an ordinary day.

Because Chrysalis and Discord weren't serious. In the one event she had warning, she goes with the worst possible plan. But people defend this brain fart out of McCarthy as if the cartoon always meant Celestia to have prophetic powers. Good amount of nothing it did with Starlight Glimmer, for example, or the second time Chrysalis captured her.

This group needs to change it's name. It should be "Damn the cartoon actually doing something with Celestia. We like our headcanon."

5956635
No offence, but after reading all of you post I get a feeling that you don't want a "Celestia the Ruler", "Celestia The Wise" or "Celestia The Competent". You want a "Celestia The Cool" or a "Celestia The Extremely Frigging Powerful". You want her to crash the party and start to kicking asses and taking names with horn blazing. And you disappointed that canon Celestia unable to live to such expectations. And I'm almost one hundred percent sure that she never live to such expectations (well, maybe with exceptions of Daybreaker).

...maybe I'm wrong, but it's a feeling I get from your posts.

5956727 Read them again. I'm complaining that the cartoon fucks up the one thing that Celestia is supposed to be doing. It's true that I'm complaining that she also doesn't have any signature magical power, but that is just because "social skills to rule a nation" is so damn unsatisfying. I could do it. It doesn't make her special. It just lazy. All of the princesses, except Celestia, have a special magic related to their talents.

Even if i was asking that Celestia went out kicking ass, I don't see the problem. The other princesses do it. She is the only one that doesn't. Kicking ass could also be her actually being good at her job instead of simply sucking at Luna's.

It's also because the cartoon plays with the idea that Celestia could be very powerful inside (though I'm not supposed to expect that Celestia has a inkling of magical power, according to you guys), but that is just Starlight Glimmer's dream. The episode fails at half the things it tries to show.

And I'm done talking about this frustrating episode.

5956748

I'm complaining that the cartoon fucks up the one thing that Celestia is supposed to be doing.

No, you complain that she not cool enough. Episode practically shoves into our throats that Celestia rules the country. She meets the dignitaries up to a night, she has a ridiculously long list of jobs, and we see that even a single and small fuck up on her parts could lead to long-lasting consequences. It's you who latched on a single phrase that you rip out of context and start moaning that "she only smiles, it's lame!". We really see the same episode? I'm not sure.

The other princesses do it.

Who? Twilight without Elements, combined power of all princesses or Rainbow Powers barely able to handle Starlight. Candance? Who she beats? Chrysalis? Sorry, but no. It's not her, it's a "power of love between her and Shining". Luna? The only thing that she beat are Tantabus and considering that it's happening in a dream (and she didn't even actually beat it)... By your own definition, "it's didn't count".
So... What princess "kick ass" by herself?

And I'm done talking about this frustrating episode.

And I don't see any point in arguing with you any longer.

Outwardly I was laughing and squeeing over the entire episode.

Mentally I was going . "Note to self, never, never, never, EVER EVER EVER PISS OFF CELESTIA!!!"

Also Celestia said, "You'll never exist again!" I realize she could be referring to Nightmare Moon.... but the way she kept reacting to Daybreaker....

I don't care if it's headcanon territory, Celestia went nuts once and is now forever holding back her powers because she is afraid of going nuts again... that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

5956978

Also Celestia said, "You'll never exist again!" I realize she could be referring to Nightmare Moon.... but the way she kept reacting to Daybreaker....

I caught that too! I feel like there's something beneath the surface there... I don't think Daybreaker (best name) is entirely from Starlight's psyche. Celestia felt the need to confront it like a Persona Boss and deny its words. If it was entirely from left field, I think the reaction would be more, "Starlight, WTF did you get this from?"

5956237

I generally assumed Daybreaker was actually a bit of Celestia's subconscious manifesting in the dream, rather than something Starlight's brain came up with on it's own.

I mean, Daybreaker was speaking directly to Celestia, going like: "I'm totally what you could become if you weren't such a wuss, and you know it!" And Celestia didn't really seem to question that very much.

5956635

Because Chrysalis and Discord weren't serious.

Like I said, Celestia somehow knew something was going to go down around the time of the wedding, and I doubt the changelings tipped her off just to be good sports about it.

As for Discord, most likely he went to work the moment he escaped. But more importantly, even if Celestia had a vision the moment he did, it wouldn't have mattered because she can't do jack to him. That's not to her detriment, because Discord is practically invincible in a straight magic fight. The only thing she could do was summon the Mane Six and have them bust out the Elements, which was exactly what she tried.

In the one event she had warning, she goes with the worst possible plan.

It was really more of a high stakes gamble - a matter of weighing risk vs reward. Discord was by far their most powerful ally so he legitimately had the best chance of finding and beating Tirek. Note that having him use his powers for the good of Equestria was the entire point of rehabilitating him in the first place. Celestia decided to trust that he'd come through for them, because she deemed Tirek so dangerous that she thought it was worth the risk if they could defeat him quickly. Unfortunately Discord relapsed at the worst possible time, but hey, hindsight is always 20/20.

Hiding all the alicorn magic in Twilight was basically a desperate move to buy time. They were basically out of options at that point because they couldn't take on Tirek or Discord, let alone both at the same time.

Good amount of nothing it did with Starlight Glimmer, for example, or the second time Chrysalis captured her.

Twilight had things covered both times Starlight was causing trouble, so there was no need for Celestia to get involved. Notably, the first time she was just running a bizarre cult in the middle of nowhere due to a personal trauma, which is not quite as serious as say an invasion of shapeshifting emotion-vampires or a megalomaniac sorcerer who literally eats magic running amok. And the second event practically didn't even happen from Celestia's perspective since it all occurred in a time loop.

As for the second changeling invasion, well, we don't really know how exactly that went down, just that they somehow got the drop on all the princesses. Which I'm fine with, honestly, because that season finale kicked ass and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Like, do you seriously want Celestia to show up every single time there's a problem and deal with it personally like some kind of superhero? If she's clairvoyant, it's clearly rather limited for the purpose of maintaining conflict, and that's a good thing.

This group needs to change it's name. It should be "Damn the cartoon actually doing something with Celestia. We like our headcanon."

Well, still better than "The Group Where All We Do Is Complain That Celestia Isn't Portrayed Exactly The Way We Want Her To Be When The Writers Finally Bother To Give Her Some Damn Screentime And Characterization Even Though We Claim To Be Fans Of Hers Because We're Kinda Entitled Like That And Probably Tend To Project Our Insecurities A Bit To Much."

I don't know about you but I signed up here because this group claimed to promote canon-accurate depictions of Celestia in reaction to frequent fandom mischaracterizations of her as a manipulative, corrupt totalitarian pervert, not to rant about some idealized theoretical version of her that only exists in my head. But I swear that sometimes I've felt like this place can be almost as bad as the Spike group when it comes to transmuting appreciation of an admirable character into bitter negativity.

5956209 That was badass! It was like she created a temporary dwarf star! That and she can BREATHE FIRE!

5957373 Well stated man.

5957373 So we're cool with this canon Celestia.
A Celestia needs constant attention to get anything done, a Luna doesn't even get any sort of magic from her or even struggles to raise the sun (omitted from the episode) and doesn't have that hard a time to deal with Celestia's tasks and when she fails it's played for comedy. The episode doesn't call Luna on her lack of knowledge about anything that Celestia would need to have to run an actual government and this can't help Celestia at all in her part of the episode.

Guess this group wasn't for me. Enjoy your equestrian Donald Trump.

5960462 You do realise that this is a Celestia fan group. The only difference is that this group promotes the canon portrayal of Celestia instead of Trollestia, Xenolestia, Molestia and Tyrantlestia. We're not sheep, we just enjoy something you apparently don't. Let us enjoy an episode that we wished for years.

6113041
Not pondering the fate of the other princesses...

6113293
We all know that the other Princesses got auto worfed for the main plot of the movie anyway.