Celestia fans rejoice. Our Princess finally gets some decent screen time and some good character development. The new ep can be found here.

5907379

While this is a far cry from a "Celestia episode," with her just bending an ear for Twilight for the first 17 minutes, it's still better than I was expecting. I enjoyed her surprise at being an expression, and the proof of "Chessmaster Celestia" in that she had specifically picked out Ponyville for the five special friends.

More than anything else, though, I love to death the possibility Twilight inherited her neurotic tendencies from Celestia.

A niche role in MLP episodes is to be the character with common sense who the others end up listening to. Having Celestia occupy that role was a step up for the old mare, so I'm pretty happy with it.

I'll say it was!

I'm just glad they managed to make a Celestia episode without destroying my headcanon.

5907379
I haven't seen it yet, and to be honest I was like "wait new season starts now?" when I saw the news. From all the comments I've seen, it might not the be episode we've been hoping for, or the one we wanted, but it was the one we needed. Thank God the fandom has matured, because I still fear the early days and what it would have thought then.

5907379 And it only took them six seasons. But I can't complain. I'm just too happy with it. Amazing episode, both as a fan of the cartoon as a whole and as one of Celestia's fans. I think it's analogous to Sleepless in Ponyville, and as such, not really a "Celestia episode" but definitively something to be happy about and it did a HUGE amount of good to cover the hole I think is where Celestia ought to be.

Man... Celestia's laughter. What a difference from that scene in Make New Friends But Keep Discord. I'm gonna sleep happy tonight. It's funny... I went in with no expectations and I was sure that if I had expected Celestia to do anything, I would be setting myself up for disappointment. So I expected Celestia to say a few words and be done with it. The whole scene with Twilight's "simulations" had Spike in his usual (and best) role as voice of reason and I kept waiting for Celestia to take part in it, but what they did blew my expectations to pieces.

The whole episode was good for me. From the start with Spike distracting Starligh Glimmer and Luna struggling to give Thorax his condecoration. I laughed at that particular scene. So the episode was already gold from there, and with Twilight's imagination of Starlight Glimmer and Ember. But Celestia turned this episode to platinum.

I can't wait to see what else they have in store for our Celestia this season. But if there's nothing more, though disappointed, I'll be happy.

5907379 Yup! Celestia pretty much made this my favorite premiere!

5907546 Don't worry my Paladin friend. The writers did Celestia some justice in this episode. From what I can gather. When it comes to the early days. The only jimmies this ep seems to have rustled were those from the NLR. The rest of the fandom have warmed up to Celestia a lot over the last few seasons. At least since season 4.

5907404 It might not quite be that key character centric episode but it's one where she finally got some good character development and some great moments.

5907559 Twas a good episode indeed for our best pony!

5907573 Amen!

5907647 Wait...the NLR got their jimmies rustled? Seriously? We've had 2 Luna episodes and they get angry because we get HALF a Celestia episode? (Don't get me wrong, I love Luna) WTF is wrong with this fandom?

FINALLY! Character development for Best Princess! It took them long enough, but I'm happy.

5907647
5907761
I think Light means the really deranged Luna fans, the ones that thinks she can do no wrong and it's all her sister's fault.

Part 1 was essentially Momlestia: The Episode. Odd to see Celestia show such a wide range of emotions, compared to her usual stately and reserved manner. People will definitely have fun referencing her line about fantasies being OK.

5907761

Try not to include NLR in 'this fandom' when you put it like that. "What is wrong with this fandom" kinda puts the bad light on all of us, when it should fall on those you're specifically questioning the sanity of.

I was there in the early days of the NLR's formation. The people going around spreading their deranged headcanon that Celestia was some sort of sadistic tyrant that abused Luna, and then locked her up in the moon for retaliating against oppression. That we didn't see more of Luna after Nightmare Moon's defeat because Celestia kept her locked up in the castle and such. They went after anyone and everyone who'd listen, spreading their ideas through groups on forums, groups on games and social platforms, just sort of trolling for new converts. Making it seem like the "in" thing to adhere to.

The artists and such were the first ones to get sucked in, and they started up with the NLR banners and the like, and people enjoyed having their own little faction, and more joined simply because the NLR looked organized/hefty and they (the converts) could deal with absorbing that headcanon, for multiple reasons (issues with authority, disliking the idea of a character who seemed good actually being truly good, etc., various personal reasons, some just for liking the night theme over the daylight theme). Problem was many of these initial numbers actually believed Celestia was a tyrant canonically, and that Luna/NMM had done nothing wrong. Despite everything in the show saying otherwise (even Lauren Faust directly saying NMM was a genocidal-level villain), they could not be convinced. And believe me, many of us tried to convince them - they were very argumentative and loud with their ideas that Celestia was 'secret evil' and that Luna was a perfect little precious flower who'd been victimized by her diabolical evil older sister. There were many arguments back in those days, and we were - as ever - always outnumbered (that disparity grew explosively over time and those who favored Celestia generally stopped entering arguments and all).

THOSE people are the type to get ridiculously angry if there's even a hint of Celestia praise. The NLR's zealot-brigade. They quieted down after 'Luna Eclipsed' back in the day but they're still around, gloating at us when Luna shows up in episode after episode, and apparently now grumbling when Celestia gets a bit more screentime than Luna. Meanwhile we here in these Celestia-centric groups tend to love and adore both sisters, unlike them.

5907904
5909315 I must admit that I am the one who brought forth that comment he was replying to. The reason I made that comment was that the Episode generally has been received rather warmly by the fandom at large. Just by observation and based on the comments that I have read were at all negative on some other brony forums came mostly from the people who appeared to be associated with the NLR. That comment of mine was mainly addressed toward Celestia's Paladin.I think I should have been more clear in my comment.

It would seem that You, Myself and Celestia's Paladin have been around the in the Fandom long enough to be around the block at least once or twice. I came in just before the height of the Celestia hate. All of that being propagated by the NLR. So many people were actually convinced that she was a tyrant and a molester among other thing. Logic and reason took hold in my head and realized that she was receiving rather unwarranted hate. One of the major reasons I took sympathy for Celestia and became a fan of her's is that she was a much more relatable character to me a bit more than Luna. Granted I do not hate Luna. But it was her over zealous following I did not like. Then episodes like Celestial advise comes out and some of them come unglued on on the episode and the like.

Though I do agree that stating the fandom as a massive extension of the NLR is an over statement in this day and age of the fandom. I would ask "What is the problem with the NLR?". You, myself and Paladin would already know what the answer to that question would be. Thank God that the fandom at large is nothing like the old days when it comes to the Celestia hating. And we have writers like Meghan McCarthy and others to thank for crushing certain zealous NLR head cannons. lol I should also mention that the people EQD have changed their attitude toward Celestia as well. They sort of were also banging the pots on the Celestia hate train as well. Considering that they were led by Luna and Trixi fan boy's. lol

5907917 We both know that line will be blown out of proportion in certian ways. Lol

5909315
5909392
Alright, I'm sorry. It's just that I've been seeing so much stupid negativity from the fandom in general. But you are right, the NLR are not the whole fandom. And damn I didn't know they were so extreme and obnoxious!
5909398 it's already been

5908354 There's nothing wrong with being thankful. Keep in mind that the writers don't owe you anything.

5909496 All good man! When you patrol some of their groups you'll know what we are saying.

5909315
5909392
Light you said it, that's why I took up the mantle as her Paladin, at the time I thought if no one else will protect her then I might as well.

5909575 Oh no, not another argument about McCarthy
Look, Meghan doesn't have a problem/something against Celestia. Remember Lesson Zero? Yup, that was written by Meghan. Remember To Where And Back Again? Yup, that WASN'T written by Meghan. And for the record, Celestia (and the other princesses) wasn't defeated in Twilight's Kingdom; she sacrificed herself. Self sacrifice is NOT defeat. Didn't you also see her reaction when she heard Tirek's footsteps? She raised her head. She wanted to stay strong even in her weakest moments. Just because she didn't blast anyone away doesn't mean she's weak. And just because you can be defeated, doesn't mean you're weak.
As for A Canterlot Wedding, Shining Armor's love for Cadance was simply that strong, plus Celestia wouldn't go Super Saiyan on Chrysalis when the hall was full of innocent ponies, because Celestia was in the air shooting downward, while Chrysalis was on the ground shooting upward. Letting loose would've been dangerous.
As for Princess Twilight Sparkle, the plants were made by Discord. Discord! That doesn't need any explanation. Besides, it was necessary to make Twilight feel like she was the only princess left so that she could step up and be a leader. She had to face the her fear of losing her only guide in the time she needed her the most. Celestia and Luna simply had to disappear in that episode, there was no way around it.

Does Meghan have a problem writing the princesses? Maybe, I can't judge yet. Is her return the doom of Celestia? That's a huge exaggeration. Keep in mind that Celestia isn't the main character, and sometimes the story would require her to step aside for the main characters to shine. Granted getting Celestia defeated has become overused, but it's not the end of the world, nor is it a deal breaker for me even though I love Celestia. Plus, people do get better, and they do learn from their mistakes, so lighten up.

5909315 It's been a long time since I last seen Celestia-hate. And good riddance too, it was one of the most divisive opinion war that I remember seeing in this fandom.

5907559

It is so weird to see you being happy and positive.

I adored how she was characterized here. Like, she acts like she's Twilight's quirky older aunt who's caught in limbo somewhere between cool and silly. It's just such a sweet and innocent way of depicting her interacting with Twi. Not patronizing, but also not like she's some soverign god-queen.

And, considering this is the biggest leap we've gotten for her, I'm happy they did so with an episode highlighting her helping Twilight with a humble, realistic, and relevant problem in a wise but not 'godly' fashion, whilst also setting up a bit of her chess-player side (we now have confirmation that Celestia had a full plan in place against NMM and it succeeded exactly as she planned, which is nice counterargument to the 'she got her ass beat by nmm and saved by twi' argument).

(Also, Celly as a "silly older aunt Uncle Iroh character" is nice and close to how I depict her, which is refreshing)

5910268 I second this.

5910268
5910270
I third this.

5910270
5910281

You two are basically my FimFic entourage at this point.

5910284 Or your demons. Oh, oh! Which sin do I get to be?

5910256 I'm happy now because it's not a schtick. I'm not doing a "internet persona". I get genuinely annoyed by what I think are bad things in the cartoon and get happy about good ones. It's been a while since I've been happy with Celestia in the cartoon and it'd be a bit off-topic to come here and talk about my fanfic or about Trixie and Starlight Glimmer or other things that I like on the cartoon that aren't related to Celestia.

I constantly praise episodes on other places and you have no idea how much of a positive person I am. Again, it's just that I can't come here and talk about weird stuff at work, for example.

There's also the fact that English is not my first language and I probably choose weird words all the time.

5910268

Like, she acts like she's Twilight's quirky older aunt who's caught in limbo somewhere between cool and silly.

Now I really want a fic where she tries to be super awesome in front of Twilight's friends, but her definition of awesome was formulated in the 1980's and it's just tremendously embarrassing for the poor Book horse.

5910268

That said, we've never canonically seen her in the god-queen persona or light, and it's something I'd eventually like to see. Drop the Worfing and all that, and show us the pony that carved out a place at the top of the world for Equestria, creating and keeping peace, defending it from all manner of terrors quite likely on her own for a thousand years. Show us the pony Twilight adored and worshiped through her life, and the pony that an entire nation owes their everything to, and revere. Some days it feels like I actually -need- this at some point.

5909856

Sadly, I still see it, and still do my level best to try and enlighten people sucked in by bad headcanon. But the core issue a lot of people who hate her have is the aforementioned trouble with a character seen as 'the authority', and their inability to reconcile a good-themed character being an actual good person and not some flawed, hideous mess masquerading as a good person. Then some who feel offended by the existence of such a character that ISN'T full of all of humanity's worst character flaws and is a better person than they are. I'd guess inferiority complexes bring about that last bit, especially considering their reactions to a few of my attempts. (I'm no saint myself, and I've got a temper, but come on...)

5909582

I went full Solar Empire/Church of Sol Invictus devotee and never looked back. I love Luna but she gets a disproportionately large amount of attention and 'can do no wrong' sort of thinking, while Celestia gets relegated to 'old mentor' or 'fat, lazy tyrant who makes Twilight do everything' by some of the kindest ignorant-folk who aren't on her side. So I am certainly glad for comrades like you. There's not many of us, especially with the dwindling numbers of the veterans - a lot of us gave up during the thick of it, the sheer oppressive force of their numbers and bad attitudes drummed many Celestia-centric supporters out of the fight and indeed out of the fandom.

5909392

I agree with all of this. It's odd, even more recent hated characters had hateboners eventually going flaccid before the collective hate for Celestia even started to wane. Like, Brad and Glimglam received more defense and support initially - and then saw gradually more acceptance by the fandom despite being extremely hated before Celestia started to see any real hints of acceptance at all. All these seasons of either having to fight people -in- the NLR, or those led about by the nose by them, or when you're feeling too outnumbered and stressed and beat down - having to keep your head down and try not to draw attention to yourself because the moment you speak up and say something good about Celestia you get swamped by 5-20 people all telling you how you're wrong and stupid for not kissing Luna's hooves every five seconds.

They will literally defend your right to choose Best Pony... from ANY group of ponies. But the moment it comes to the Royal Sisters it's Luna or get out before we trash you or belittle you, demean you and talk about you like you aren't there because we have a big group and you're practically alone. In all my years in this fandom I've never seen a group so abusive and caustic that still called themselves bronies except NLR fanatics and some 'critic'/popularity cliques here on Fimfic.

5910336 Guess I see what you mean, but really I prefer to see Celestia as more a Jedi than a Goddess, personally. That is to say, I prefer to see her as a powerful, mythical being, but not one that cannot be potentially bested by a worthy foe. I like to imagine Celly's strengths lie in her great wisdom, compassion, and willpower, and less by any arbitrary raw power thrust upon her.

That's not to say i don't like nor discredit Godlestia headcanons. Simply not my preferred way of characterizing.

5910294

"But Twilight, I'm hip!"

5910346

The good news is that her unironic use of the words "tubular" and "radicalness" would impress at least one of the friends.

5910281

The motion has been passed.

5910336

That said, we've never canonically seen her in the god-queen persona or light, and it's something I'd eventually like to see.

People want to see Celestia fight and be a badass, which is understandable as the series has become more action oriented, but is that actually a good idea? There's more ways to be strong than physical confrontation and violence. They did show her blasting Sombra's soldiers on the AU snowy battlefield.

Luna showed off her magical prowess in the Tantabus episode. A situation where Celestia shows off her magic while the main characters complete tasks could be a good compromise. I would love to see Celestia and Twilight embark on a little mini-adventure while Celestia tells stories or elucidates her philosophy (I believe the Celestia/Spike comic was like this).

Celestia was impressive earlier in the series, like whenever they showed her raising the sun, or in Lesson Zero when Celestia came down in a beam of light and effortlessly reversed Twilight's brainwashing spell, or in Magical Mystery when she guided Twilight through the heavenly dimension and assumed a glowing angelic pose.

Speaking of Meghan McCarthy, she had that good Celestia/Twilight scene in the Princess Twilight Part 1 episode, the one where she looks at Luna through the window. Also McCarthy's episodes have a lot of Celestia/Twilight hugging, which melts my heart.

EDIT: I wonder how the MLP movie will treat the non-Twilight princesses. If Celestia, Luna, and Cadance get captured they should probably go down fighting, or helping their subjects escape, or something like that, instead of disappearing off screen.

5910294

That would be a cool idea!

5910712

While we know she's had to have performed amazing combat feats, guarding Equestria for ten centuries without the Elements or a second alicorn as backup, I never said that we should only see her in that light. I'd be fine with anything that reversed her Worf status irrevocably. I mean, the Flurry Heart episode had the movers of the heavens getting pushed back by a STORM.

That's a fucking disgrace of writing right there. Ugh.

5910489

I really want to see this now. I just get this sort of feeling:

5912352 It wasn't an ordinary storm in universe in the first place. Also they were at a place where deadly storms would happen if it wasn't for protection magic coming from the Crystal Heart.

5913839

Regardless of the conveniently OP clouds, showing the same pony who can do this having to resort to shooting lasers at the storm (and having an incredible hard time doing it) is just sad.

5913839
5913934

Name hits the nail on the head. Regardless of how 'powerful' a storm is, using what the lore plainly suggests are the two most powerful ponies of all to show that 'storm = bad' is terribly lazy Worf Effect writing, cheapens their characters, doesn't fit with the rest of the lore and the very short leap of deductive logic it takes to get an understanding of how powerful they literally have to be in order for Equestria to still be standing and this peaceful into the modern era.

They, of course, do this during the same episode as it's revealed what is possibly only the third natural alicorn birth in history created this decidedly off-model abomination which happens to probably be stronger than every other pony present to begin with, including the Sisters, Cadence, and Twilight. So it's a double whammy of 'wow the big girls kinda suck at this whole thing'* in one episode and part of the reason for my general ire towards Flurry Heart and why I've disliked 'baby episodes' in shows for decades to begin with."Though you know, Luna at least had the Tantabus episode and that was pretty powerful looking. Celestia on the other hand..."

As Name also points out, they just... pewpew lasers at it. They are the oldest spellcasters we know of, Celestia was the previous Element of Magic. They just throw pointless... what appears to be telekinetic blasts at the clouds. No fancy spellwork to show that they're competent and supremely capable, that they're knowledgeable and well-learned. They could have had the storm overpower them the same way it did in-canon but made it look like they were really experienced and knew what they were doing besides throwing horn lasers uselessly around. Heck, it would have made the storm seem even MORE threatening that it was winning.

Making the Sisters look derp and weak in the face of the storm just made the storm not feel all that epic to begin with, hurting the entire reason they used the Sisters against the storm in the first place. Really just wish they'd handle them better, and that they'd stop using Celestia to measure every new threat against. "Oh no, Potential Threat #3714 is a Real Threat because it took down Celestia! Again! For the third time this week! And it's only Tuesday!"

5914098

Y know I never actually saw any NLR post anywhere so I don't really know about them, but from what I heard in this group it feels like they were either there for the lulz or had some issue themselves. I wouldn't really take anything they said seriously.

5907379

I actually dropped down dead from laughter when Celestia remarked being unaware that she was an expression. (Don't ask how I was ressurrected)

This episode definitely made onto my top fav, especially the portrayal of Celestia.

5914033

As Name also points out, they just... pewpew lasers at it. They are the oldest spellcasters we know of, Celestia was the previous Element of Magic. They just throw pointless... what appears to be telekinetic blasts at the clouds. No fancy spellwork to show that they're competent and supremely capable, that they're knowledgeable and well-learned. They could have had the storm overpower them the same way it did in-canon but made it look like they were really experienced and knew what they were doing besides throwing horn lasers uselessly around. Heck, it would have made the storm seem even MORE threatening that it was winning.

This is a problem not just with the Alicorns, this show, or even pure magic. Even in Star Wars when it's time to show off Yoda's prowess with the Force, it's him throwing rocks. Writers seem to have a shockingly hard time coming up with anything beyond blunt trauma brute force when it comes to paranormal powers. I would love to see more variety than magic missiles and beam wars.

5914988

Precisely! How hard is it to create some 'spell effects'? We do it for games all the time. Sparkling mandalas, mystic circles, mysterious runes, a bright flash of light and things start to change in the area. I'm not asking for AAA+ content here, just... something more than fucking pewpew laserbeams.