I miss the old days

1579175 Still there have been some awesome storylines in recent years:
Blackest Night
Final Crisis
The Sinestro Corps War
Flashpoint
and many others.

1579189 By old days I mean everything BEFORE The New 52.

Some changes I like, but 95% I despise with a passion

1579235 I haven't read New 52. What's it like?

1579324 several things done haven't been as well executed as they should have been, although Lunar has a tendency to blow it out of proportion

That being said, I would gladly take the opportunity to break my foot off in Scott Lobdell's ass should the chance reveal itself

1579175

It's times like that, it makes me wonder...WHY THE F is Dido still in charge?

The guy doesn't seem like a good editor, lacks anything that seems like a talk with the fans, seems to actively hate the fanbase, and is only there to wack us with his "Blood and guts" wang.

I mean, say what you will about Quesada, but at least he was a good businessman and is a spetacular artist and at least he tries to keep up a good convo with the fans. I don't know about the new editor though.

1579427 'One More Day'

1579447

As I said, businessman, as a story writer the guy is a frakkin moron.

1579427 Too true. I actually came up with a pro and con list. It doesn't cover everything, but it gives a good idea on how I feel about the whole thing

Pro: New universe with none of the bad stories of the previous one

Con: New universe with none of the good stories of the previous one

Pro: Superman having a more believable way of concealing his costume in his street clothes.

Con: Superman's costume is armor.

Con: Earth 2 Superman(Kal-L) is more like Kal-El whereas Kal-El of the mainstream universe is now more like Kal-L, being rougher and holding back less. This is a complete inverse of how these two incarnations of Superman work.

Pro: Changing Captain Marvel's name to Shazam thus finally ending the decades long explanation of his name, giving a reason why he can say his name without changing, and finally the hood on his costume makes him look more mystical.

Pro: The Marvel Family(Or Shazam Family I guess I should say), now has 6 members which is a good call back to the Golden Age where they actually did have 3 extra members in the form of the Lieutenant Marvels

Con: Billy Batson is not a likable kid

Con: Shazam is not an acronym for Solomon, Hercules, Achilles, Zeus, Atlas, and Mercury anymore. Normally I'd be okay with with this, but they don't do a good job at explaining what Shazam actually is in that it's uncertain WHERE the power comes from now.

Pro: Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus with a major power boost to boot

Con: Could have been worked in without the reboot

Pro: Aquaman is still a badass

Con: Everyone in the comic treats him like crap and think he's useless when they have no reason to

Pro: Caitlin Fairchild, Grifter, and most recently Mr. Majestic, three of my favorite Wildstorm characters being introduced into the DCU

Con: Grifter's series sucks and Majestic is no longer anything like himself.

Pro: Making a new Teen Titans team

Con: Getting rid of all the original members of the Teen Titans, thus destroying one of the greatest teams in comics

Con: Removing the original Teen Titans members means removing the crucial events in their lives that shaped who they were

Pro: Superboy's telekinetic powers are more diverse.

Con: His origin is now FAR more complicated than it needs to be.

Pro: Earth 2's premise of a modern day Justice Society is highly original and interesting

Con: Massive sledgehammer to the face with regards to the original characters in every facet imaginable

Pro: Batman's corner of the universe staying basically the same

Con: Batman's entire history as well as the history of his supporting cast crammed into a 5 year time frame.

Con: This means Batman went through four Robins in just under 5 years when it should have been 10 at the least.

Con: Mr. Freeze is just another random crazy guy that just happens to have ice powers

Pro: Justice League Dark because it was the most awesome thing DC has put out in recent years.

Con: It could have easily been done without the reboot.

Pro: Red Hood and the Outlaws

Con: Starfire, my favorite female member of the Titans EVER, is just unbearable to read now and comes off as uncaring and a nymphomaniac.

Con: Lobo is no longer the universes ultimate badass and is just lame now. What happened to the Main Man?!?!??!

Pro: The New 52 is like Ultimate Marvel, having many good and interesting ideas.

Con: The New 52 is like Ultimate Marvel as these good ideas could have been worked in without the reboot and are many are only good ideas on paper. There's also no regular DC universe to fall back on unlike what Marvel has.

1580295

...Wait, they took away Mr. Freeze's interesting and character driven backstory? The one that defined him...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

Who would do that? Why? What reason is there to remove a character's motivation. What, don't like the idea that villians can more than one side of them DC? Isn't this like taking away Doom's mom?

The other stuff is just...uggh. Why? Why remove the anagram of Shazam? Why make Wondy Zeus's daught and thus make her the same as almost every other myth hero in existance, why remove anythign interesting about Starfire, why push forward the justice society, why remove the aspect of legacy from DC (an aspect I put into my own Power Ranger fanfics I might add), why shorten Batman's career, WHY WHY WHY./

Just somebody fire Dan and put in Timm already before I do it.

1580350 Yeah. Now Victor Fries is a sociopath who drowned his mother in a frozen lake and became obsessed with finding a cure for a frozen terminally ill woman named Nora, who has NEVER met him, and is likely to KILL her if he ever does thaw her out if and she doesn't instantly love him back. Yeah, great decision right there. Top notch.

And, this is the best part, they give Victor's original motives, the "Doing horrible things to save a terminally ill-loved one" to Captain Cold. CAPTAIN COLD!!! It's like they got their ice themed villains mixed up!!!!

Oh and never mind the fact that Jay Garrick, the original Flash, now gets his powers magically from the god Mercury. Yes, now Jay Garrick is 5 mythological beings short of a Captain Marvel!!

Also, for claiming to be new reader friendly, guess what they did to Huntress and Power Girl? Well Huntress is now Helena WAYNE from Earth 2!!!! Yeah and it turns out that Helena Bertinelli, you know the Huntress that has been around for decades now and is a fan favorite who had an interesting dynamic of being a teacher AND a superhero? Apparently she NEVER existed in this new universe and is now just an alias Helena WAYNE is using.

For Power Girl you may ask? Well, they have gone with the clone angle, like in JLU, which would have been interesting. They could have even had her be a Daxamite, the sister race to Kryptonians, that left her xenophobic planet and went to Earth to create some kind of female parallel with Superman. They could have even just had Kara-Zor-El arrive on Earth at the same time Kal-El did and grew up there alongside him, never meeting until he began being Superman with her as Power Girl. Nope!!!! They just stuck to her parallel universe Supergirl origin. WHY?!?!?! As much as I love the character, that part of her origin always bugged the HELL out of me!!!

So they have two major characters in their mainstream universe, with origins from a DIFFERENT universe. Yeah, something tells me that people new to comics are gonna be pretty confused on that one.

1579427

Ummm...no. Joe Casada is not HALF the business man you probably think he is.

For that matter, what do you think he was responsible for doing exactly?

1580295

Dude, you're an idiot for thinking them making Diana an illegitimate child of Zeus is a good thing.

1580566 It could have been worse honestly.

1580687

It could have, but it's not NEARLY as epic OR as Greek Mythical as her being born by clay.

1580698 As good? No, but the power boost she has now makes up for that in my opinion.

1580847

So, shallow then?

1580880 Not shallow. Besides can't get much more Greek than child of Zeus

1580895

But that's been DONE SO many times before!

That's what was so epic about Diana's story. It was like a NEW Greek Myth that was only really touched upon in their Creation myth where mankind was made from clay.

1580919 Not a new one. It was completely copied from Galatea. In other words no more original than being a demigoddess daughter of Zeus.

1580927

No, but it's STILL much more epic than just being another one of the children farted out from some woman that Zeus decided to boink on his many affairs. In other words, fuck you.

1580984 Hey being a demigod is awesome!!!! Or have you forgotten about this?!

1581007

Diana was ALREADY a demi-god you fool! Just not by having blood relations! Heck, despite "Percy" being a "demi-god", she could kick his ass any day of the week!

1581055 Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

1581087

You know how much I hate that cop-out.

1581118 Your.........................Opinion..........................Man

1581158

So, how could a Marvel and DC crossover with Equestria work?

1580447

Con: Superman's costume is armor.

It looks cooler than spandex. It also actually doesn't do a whole helluva lot since his body is already mostly indestructible

Pro: Aquaman is still a badass

Con: Everyone in the comic treats him like crap and think he's useless when they have no reason to

nobody took him seriously in real life outside of comic book fans. It also adds more depth (ha) to his character

Con: Batman's entire history as well as the history of his supporting cast crammed into a 5 year time frame.

Con: This means Batman went through four Robins in just under 5 years when it should have been 10 at the least.

For the last time...

HE WAS A COVERT URBAN LEGEND BEFORE THE PUBLIC KNEW ABOUT HIM!!! He's only been public for five years. And since he's the freaking Batman, it's more than easy to believe a bat-themed ninja can go around for 5 years without being confirmed. And THAT is canon!!!

Also, for claiming to be new reader friendly, guess what they did to Huntress and Power Girl? Well Huntress is now Helena WAYNE from Earth 2!!!!

Oh my God, Dude

Helena Bertinalli was ORIGINALLY Helena Wayne from Earth-2 before a retcon a while back. Do the research next time.

The New 52 is far from perfect, I know that, but you still have to realize that there was an impending continuity lock out, if it wasn't there already. They needed a massive retcon movement the likes of the original 'Crisis on Infinite Earth'. That means moving things around, passing around new origins (while on the topic, Superboy's origin isn't that complex. It's still 'half Super/half-mostly human. Now the only difference is that he was made to be a weapon, rather than a replacement.)

Besides, now that the old DCU is gone, they can now make a lot more different projects without stepping on continuity (mostly. I choose to simply accept that blackest night happened and not get into the details.)

1580698

It could have, but it's not NEARLY as epic OR as Greek Mythical as her being born by clay.

Maybe not to you, but it is more in keeping with her over all Greek theme, which they seem to have accentuated a lot more.

Also, I feel that the New 52 would have gone better if Scott Lobdel was locked outside of the DC office and never allowed back in ever again.

1581486

HE WAS A COVERT URBAN LEGEND BEFORE THE PUBLIC KNEW ABOUT HIM!!! He's only been public for five years. And since he's the freaking Batman, it's more than easy to believe a bat-themed ninja can go around for 5 years without being confirmed. And THAT is canon!!!

Fair enough. I'll give you that one.

Helena Bertinalli was ORIGINALLY Helena Wayne from Earth-2 before a retcon a while back. Do the research next time

Uh, no she wasn't. Helena Wayne was the first Huntress yes, but Helena Bertinelli is simply based on her in that she has the Huntress name. Also you're telling me that it's not a CRIME to replace a character with a good back story for some inter-dimensional stand-in that was forgotten about years ago? That's Helena Wayne is. A LESS interesting Helena Bertinelli. She doesn't have the same backstory or anything. She is not the same character!!!!

However I guess I should be thankful that it's not the Huntress everyone loves because otherwise they might be inclined to make her a sociopathic sadist villain. Why would they do that? Well they turned Warblade from Wildstorm, a HERO in his universe, into a villain for no reason, Rose Wilson into a villain for no reason, Grunge from Wildstorm into a villain for no reason, Raven into a villain for no reason, Omen a former Teen Titan who was always a hero into a villain for no reason....... You see where I am going with this?

Nothing they have done has proven that the New 52 was a good idea. NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and the biggest slap in the face in that regard was that Artemis Crock, a character once obscure that was skyrocketed into the spotlight thanks to Young Justice and had become a fast fan favorite, was summarily killed off upon her introduction. Yeah. It's like DC was going

"What's that? You want this character? You do?! WELL SCREW YOU BECAUSE YOU AIN'T GETTING HER!!"

1581486

Dude, go fuck yourself (and if you like it, then just drink drain cleaner instead). How is being born from the clay your mother sculpted you from in her grief that she couldn't have a child on her island and then being given life by the THUNDER OF THE GODS THEMSELVES not as epic as just being another one of the spawn of Zeus's old, wrinkly, white haired loins?

1581579

Raven into a villain for no reason,

I'd be inclined to agree with you there, only they actually do have a reason. She's the daughter of Trigon and was intended to be his herald. She's also had a bad thing with betraying others in the past because of it. Also, she did switch sides in the latest Trigon arc, so there is a precedent for that.

1581625

How is being born from the clay your mother sculpted you from in her grief that she couldn't have a child on her island and then being given life by the THUNDER OF THE GODS THEMSELVES not as epic as just being another one of the spawn of Zeus's old, wrinkly, white haired loins?

I didn't say it wasn't epic at all, I just said that it was more in keeping with Greek Myth in general, as well as having precedent in DC comics in the past.

Hercules

Perseus

Theseus

And Cassie, one of the Wondergirls (pre 52) was actually the daughter of Zeus.

Again, I'm not saying that the New 52 is perfect (I find the new Teen Titans very lack luster, myself, and it wouldn't have killed them to allude more to a previous team of young heroes... and Scott Lobdell's... treatment of Jason Todd just before leaving makes me scream in my head every time I think his name), but a lot of people complain at least a little to much.

It's like starting a new file on a video game, trying to see what you can do with it.

Also, Superman's armor looks badass

1581795

Oh great, you're one of those "badass" mongers, aren't you?

Or, as Jor-El would say, "a mindless aberration whose only concerns are wanton violence and destruction" as I believe the quote goes. You probably think Kratos is an especially deep, layered, or interesting character.

Anyways, yeah. Having Superman wear armor like that is just wrong. I agree with Lunar on that. I wouldn't mind so much if there was more yellow in his costume though.

Also, I'm glad Jason Todd was treated crappily. He sucks. You suck for liking him. And he had it coming along with you for liking that asshat. Good day.

1581795

Also, Superman's armor looks badass

Ha...... ha...... ha.... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha............. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!

So much wrong with that statement and so little time.

First of all!!! Superman wearing armor is like putting a bullet proof vest on a tank. It does NOTHING!!!! Before you make the argument that it's the same thing with Thor, I agree. However the reason it works for Thor is that Thor is a VIKING god. He is from a WARRIOR culture. For Thor the armor is just a sign that says "I'm a warrior"

Superman isn't supposed to look "bad ass" he's supposed to look like Superman. If you want bad ass Superman go to Mr. Majestic

In fact if hey had to redesign Superman's outfit, then the Earth 2 design is how it should go!!!

Or better yet the costume from the Smallville comic!!!

You see? THOSE are Superman costumes, not the needless armor that over complicates what should be a pretty simple design with armor lines all over it!!!!

1581908 Jason Todd was finally getting closure with the Bat-family. He was finally becoming a respectable character in his own right and he and Bruce finally forgave each other.

Then Lobdel came along and made it meaningless with emo induced amnesia. Totally ruined a metric fck ton of character development 'Death of the Family' gave him.

Also, I don't like Jason because he's a badass (mostly). I like him because I can't stand Dick Grayson. Dude sleeps with every one and never shuts up.

Also, I just said that the armor looks badass. I'm not a fan of the latex style, personally. And besides that, he's already indestructible thanks to his kryptonian body, so the armor hardly does anything except give him a cooler looking costume.

Kratos sucks, Dude. His only motivation is to kill everything. He's like ancient Greek Hulk... making my preference for the Red Lantern book somewhat jarring, but then again Atrocitus is fairly compelling in his own way.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was more yellow in his costume though.

He's never had that much yellow in his costume.

a mindless aberration whose only concerns are wanton violence and destruction" as I believe the quote goes. You probably think Kratos is an especially deep, layered, or interesting character.

Actually, Dude, don't be a dick. The costume is about the only thing good about Scott Lobdel's run on Superman. I especially find the current arc stupid because it's been set up for the last, what, 5 issues leading into Brainiac but showing 2 different villains that have nothing to do with each other and a completely asinine fight between him and Orion, one that was only stopped because Wonder Woman told him to knock it off. The arc's clearly been all over the place and it bugs the living Hell out of me that an 90's comic book writer is now working for DC on their capital ship franchise, giving out minimal development to Supes at all. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Geoff Johns, working on the Justice League books, has done more for his character than his principal writer.

A badass scene is useless without the setup, and Grant Morrison set it up flawlessly by having him put the suit on and proceed to kick Brainiac's metal ass and then make a grand reveal that he was there to help over the news.

So you can suck it

1582048 Interesting that that one, small sentence is the one thing you decided to pick out of that entire counter-argument, Lunar.

Or better yet the costume from the Smallville comic!!

No

He looks like a little kid, which is fine for that age, but Superman isn't a little kid anymore

I do like the Earth 2 version, however

But, if I HAD to choose a clothe costume, it would need to be the Earth-One line

Utterly simple in design, going for a more metallic blue as opposed to the typical royal blue, with the lines separating it from a slightly different shade. Even the super-briefs are tolerable with the way it's executed.

1582339
1582098
1582048
1581908
You know, with all this going on in the comics, it's probably best to stick to DC's, Live-Action TV Shows, and the Marvel Cinematic Universe/X-Men Movies...

(Although, I will say: there needs to be A LOT more of the DCAU. Especially the awesome that is Batman Beyond.)