According to Wikipedia, a cliche is "an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning, or effect, and even, to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel." And I think we can all agree that the complete body of pony fanfiction has its own, unique set of cliches, copied in work after work for form rather than substance.

Take, for example, second person fics. Oh goodness, the second person fics. I can only assume the point of such a story is to make the reader feel like they're in the story. Now in theory, there can be a good story that uses the second-person trope to achieve this. I've never seen such an example on FiMFiction, though, largely because the 'me' of the story goes and does things that I would never do. So no, that guy you're writing is not me - he's some guy you'd like me to identify with. If it were me, I'd have some control over what he was doing.

So! In this thread, describe the cliches you've come to recognize in pony fanfiction, what they're supposed to do, and how stories often misuse them. I don't mean simply venting; if you're saying that something sucks, please explain why, as I've tried to do in my second-person example.

I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with!

Most second person fics are of the 'Welcome to Equestria, now go fuck something' variety.

It's a moot point now, but if I had to count the number of 'alicorn Twilight' stories, I'd reach an uncomfortably high number.

Not to mention the 'alicorn mean immortality, so lets have her mope about the past' stories.

It feels like every single Vinyl/Octavia fic goes the exact same way.

and while I'm probably in the minority here, I have gotten rather tired of the same Lyra/Bon and Octavia/Vinyl pairing, over and over.
I know they're popular pairing, but seriously?

Is it ever stated in the show that the alicorns are immortal? Or is this little snippet of information the result of speculation and mythological stimuli?

Curiosity is my bane, but any feed back on this would be just swell.

847144 847195 Well, yes... but why don't these things work? Why doesn't it work to have an alicorn mope about loss and the past, and why have Lyra/Bon and Vinyl/Octavia lost currency? Is it simply repetition, or are the newer ones missing something about what made the old ones better?

Cliche's aren't bad, though. Let's keep that in mind. Well, not ALL cliches aren't bad. Some cliches are cool.
'
I tend to notice Tavi/Scratch, I can't say how many fics between those two seem event-for-event the exact same thing.

Also, nobody ever gets Pinkie Pie right.

847203
Repetition, primarily

Also because the immediate assumption that becoming an alicorn means living forever. Do you think Cadance would have married SA know she'd outlive him by infinity? My belief is that Celestia and Luna are immortal because their duties demand they be, as opposed to any sort of 'built-in bonus'.

Sad ending HiE fics.

In trying to avoid the so-called "human can travel back and forth at will" cliche, a new entire family has been created - the "human can't travl back" or the "human dies"... collectively, the "something awful happens to the human" cliche. It bores me. Go beyond this! What else could happen? There is a much larger story after this that could be explored.

847132 Clichés? Okay, in no particular order, the things that have been overdone are:

1. Twilicorn. Seriously, experiment with this, find a way for somepony else to end up as an Alicorn, or intertwine it in a larger narrative other than "X becomes Y".

2. X is really a changeling. This is getting right up there with Twilicorn. HOWEVER, I will say that this likely has a lot more juice left to squeeze in the feels department.

3. Mopy/angsty teenage human, enough said.
I can proudly say that all my human characters, if they are angsty, have a damn good reason for it! And even then, I have them recover over a period of time that will likely be interpreted as lasting from a few weeks to a few years with the support of his friends. It's a genuine conflict, but just a small part of the larger story.

847209

I like to think I do a pretty damn good Pinkie.

847203

It's overplayed.

Seems like every Vinyl/Octavia fic plays out the exact same.

I mean, everyone gets shipped with everyone else, but I can count the number of fics that have Octavia or Vinyl in, or implied to be forming, a romantic relationship with another pony on one hand.

It just feels like the creativity is missing when it comes down to those two.

Immortals being unhappy because they live forever.

Lyra and humans.

Dr. Hooves, Derpy, that whole section of things.

Pinkie Pie is a slut. That's clopfic specifically (for the most part).

Pinkamena is an evil serial killer personality or whatever.

Also, Wikipedia is wrong. A cliche is "something that occurs frequently which I (I, in this case, meaning whoever is reading the definition at the time) find annoying."

Every mare in Equestria is a lesbian but every stallion is straight.

This is the kind of message that I've gotten from so many fanfics.

847226 Maybe Cadence will enjoy her time with Shining Armor more than her loss of him after it? She could find a new love, and that doesn't necessarily mean she'd be shallow. There are plenty of stories where a character finds a new love after their partner has died and move on.

847209
It's because in the back of everyone's mind most of us see cupcakes when we think of Pinkie at least that's what I think.

847209

actually, what annoys me with Pinkie is all the fourth Wall breaking.
She did it a few times, and now people make it take over her entire characterization.

847209 You say that "nobody ever gets Pinkie Pie right", but I don't think that's actually a cliche. It's just a failure to properly characterize her, which is different. On the other hand, some of the examples people have mentioned (like 'split personality psycho Pinkamena' or 'serial fourth-wall breaker') count as cliches because they've been deliberately used by authors.

847229 About the Changeling thing... what makes the good ones good, and vice-versa? Is there some emotional cash-in that some of them hit, and others miss?

847248 How do you call Wikipedia wrong when your definition of 'cliche' agrees with its own? The only difference is that Wikipedia is more specific about why it becomes 'trite or irritating', to use its wording.

Shipping in general.

Seriously, theirs romance starring frequently shipped couples--and thats alright--but it gets annoying when its shoehorned into a story, like when, say, Flutter/mac (as an example) is implied in a story but isn't really a driving force in the story and its briefly mentioned once.

847277
Because "trite or irritating" are entirely subjective, and the rest of the Wikipedia definition is someone trying to justify why their entirely subjective opinion is universally applicable.

To use myself as an example, I really just don't like the whole Doctor Hooves thing. So by the time I'd seen two of those stories, I was shaking my head thinking, "not this shit again." Really, there could have only been two such stories or pictures or whatever in the entire world, and I'd still be writing it off as overdone.
On the other hand, the fact that it survives means there are people out there ready to gobble it up. It doesn't become trite or irritating to them because they like it. For myself, I like Scootabuse. You can rape, beat and torture that filly all day and I'll never get bored of it.
The other problem is the word "overuse," which implies someone could have a universal knowledge of all the stories written ever. No one does, even limiting oneself to just this site, you could never read everything. So how do you know your sample didn't include an overabundance of the thing you're complaining about? Everything is new to someone at some point.

847216

You say humans can't work on the farm, but just you wait until a fence needs fixin', or a cow needs put down.

Not only is Vinyl and Octavia shipped together. Vinyl is a drug using, party hard club slut that drinks all night. While Tavi is a well refined, properly educated and prodigal socialite. Yet, for whatever reason they love each other, and are able to see through one anothers flaws. It has worked, once; maybe twice?

Lyra is a Human hungry stalker that will do anything to get in the sack with said Human.

While I openly support gay, and lesbian couples and marriage, and I also follow the rule that Equestria's mare to stallion population is ten to one. I do not buy the fact that every single mare will hook up with another mare just until a stallion comes along.

847229

Are there so many X is Changeling fics that it has become a cliche?

I've always felt that with the right buildup, and having a legitimate reason for them doing so would be enough to make it at least interesting...

Whenever others complain about cliches, I just don't get it. To me it seems like cliches ([OOC] and memes) are often hated on just because they aren't new. I mean I get the whole "I feel like I've already read this before," but is seems that people have gotten to the point where they can't enjoy any theme that's been used twice. I don't know. I really like the familiarity you can settle into from a certain repetitive theme. Like for example AppleDash, it's used, admittedly, it's used a lot, but still I can read one of those fics and just smile. (provided it's written well)
Anyways, sorry for venting. And thanks for a place to vent Have a wonderful day!

847201
It is never stated in the show that alicorns are immortal.

Here, however, is what IS stated in the show that I feel is important:
1. Celestia is definitely over a thousand years old. We do not know how, exactly.
2. Luna was sealed away into the moon. (Not ON the moon as is popular.)
3. Discord was sealed in stone for a thousand years.
4. Twilight states that age magic is only "for the highest level unicorns."

So, let's start with some basic story weaving, shall we?

Luna became Nightmare Moon, and Celestia sealed her into the moon. It can be assumed that she knows that her sister will be able to be freed in a thousand years. Lets assume that she knows that when that time comes, she will be long dead and not be able to be there to deal with the situation and/or reconcile with Luna when she is freed.

So what does she do? She uses age magic to extend her life. Maybe she only needs to do it one time, maybe she needs to continuously, every couple decades, re-cast magic on herself to revert to a younger body. Whatever the case may be, she knows she has to be there for Luna's return. If Luna is Nightmare Moon, something will have to be done. If Luna regains her sanity and loses the darkness that had a hold on her, she will have no one to turn to if Celestia isn't there.

So Celestia does it, and becomes nigh immortal for her sister's sake.

Now, why did I mention Discord? He is another being that was sealed away. Given the statue he became looks just like he looks when he breaks free, we can assume that his aging was stopped while he was sealed.

As an additional piece of evidence, look at King Sombra. He was also sealed away, into shadow. He also did not age, and he is not even an alicorn. He is simply a powerful unicorn.

So, here's our two conclusions:
1. Being sealed away stops the aging process.
2. Alicorns are not immortal.

847469
Why thank you little colt.
That was a well-thought out explanation and I appreciate it very much.
I still think Alicorns are not immortal. As far as i know immortal things tend to talk in circles; they don't see time as a then and a now and a future and a past they just see it as a plain they can explore. Or perhaps this is time travelers. Oh buck it, Aliconrs can time travel too.

I guess the idea of cryogenesis comes into play. When things are frozen and their vital functions slow down; so too does the aging process.
I am sure Discord is immortal. He is referred to as a god. God's don't tend to get old and die that way.

Only Kratos kills gods, but he's on his holidays :P

847517
When is discord ever referred to as a god? I may need to go back and check The Return of Harmony, but as far as I am aware, he was only referred to as a tyrannical ruler who was brought down by Celestia and Luna a thousand years ago.

I don't think he's immortal. Also, there is no evidence for it, but I am sort of hoping that he used to be a pony, and his body was changed by the chaos in his heart, or chaos magic he was using, etc...

It'd be interesting.

That the changelings used to be ponies is also my headcanon. That's a bit telling, probably, if you read my fanfic, heh...

Well, I think that everyone thinks that Alicorns are immortal because Luna lived 1000 years on the moon, and Celestia sent her there and saw her when she returned. But there's no real proof that they are immortal, they just live a lot longer than humans.

847591

IN the moon, IN! This is probably one of the biggest cliches in this fandom, while we're on that subject. Luna was not pronking around on the moon for a millenium.

847607

Yeah, I think of it like in Avartar the last airbender. She essentially became the moon.

847566

He's never referred to as a god, but he is a spirit. It'd be pretty hard to kill a spirit, and I'm not sure a spirit dies of natural causes.

847662
Ah yes, now I am remembering... He's referred to as the spirit of chaos, is he not? That makes more sense, for sure... Unless they were being figurative instead of literal.

847687

Yeah, the mane six were the spirits of the elements of harmony, which was figurative, but all of Discords powers considered I'm sure he is a spirit in the most literal sense.

847729
He could just be really powerful. We honestly have no idea, but I am assuming he is literally a spirit.

I still like the idea that he used to be "normal" though.

I think some of you may be mistaking cliche with error. A fanfic writer human coming to Equestria to meet his/her favorite ponies followed by the author character talking about how much Earth sucks is cliche. Luna being sealed in the moon as opposed to ON THE MOOOOOOOON-AAAAAAAAAA! is an error.

Yep. I'm being That Guy again. Anyway.

"A changeling leaves the hive, goes to live among ponies, and blah de blah friendship blah blah redemption blah maybe shipping blah."

I see these stories pop up too often; it can't possibly have that many interesting permutations. It's almost as bad as the generic HiE fics. Or the romance HiE fics. Or the adventure HiE fics. Most of the HiE fics, really.

I also agree that Lyra/Bon Bon and Lyra being obsessed with humans are both cliche. She features as one of the main characters in my big project, and I intend to use neither. Alternate character interpretation, go!

847244
Agreed, not enough Octavia with other high class ponies. Like, say... no, no. No. No, brain. Stahp. I am NOT writing an Octavia/Spitfire ship. NO. MAKE IT STOP. STOOOOOOOP!

847823

But it's an error seen time and time again, being the basis for many stories, and is seen as a cliche, regardless of whether it's correct or not.

847889
An error that's turned into a cliche, then?

847898

Exactly, my good sir!

Fan pandering in fanfics drives me crazy. Now I like fan continuity, at least the little stuff. Ditzy having a family would be one example. What I can't stand is the crazier ideas of the community getting called out in every single fanfic I read. Lyra over obsessing about humans is one. Another one I'm noticing a lot lately and is really driving me crazy is Dr Hooves being The Doctor.

You want to have a Dr Who fanfic, that's fine, but shoehorning him into a scene for no reason just takes me right out of the story. And I'm not talking about a fic that might rely on him being the doctor to advance the plot. Usually he'll just happen to be hanging around the area and make some intelligent comment. Another pony will then be like "wow, you must travel a lot to know that" and his reply is always something like "You have no idea....".

The first time it was kind of clever, except now I've read that exact same passage a dozen plus times and it's pissing me off!

Depressed teenage brony magically appears in Equestria.

848065
I see that and raise you: depressed teenage brony inexplicably appears in Equestria.

Seriosuly, someone break the freaking "Angsty teenager ends up in Equestria" and whats with all the peace in these sort of fics? If a character could travel back and forth between Earth and Equestria, don't you think people would notice eventually? Don't you think humans would find out?

What seriously needs to happen is were ponies get all self rightoues and invade Earth for some reason. Then humanity fights back (Perhaps I will do a story like that).

Also, in regards to humans falling in love with ponies, no, just no.

848175 lol yea

848276
Amythest: Princess of Gemworld has the main character travel between the two worlds. Of course, her parents quickly find out, and that introduces us to part of the backstory.

I suppose what I mean to say, is that if the author thinks about it then they can use it intelligently.

848276
"Ponies get all self righteous and invade Earth" is The Conversion Bureau. Humanity fighting back is The Conversion Bureau: Not Alone. I'm sure there's others.

847420 I guess you could say the term 'overused' is overused. But truth be told, what you've described is not what I'm looking for - I'm looking for those things whose forms are copied without their substance, thus leaving them badly done.

847517 I say that Celestia and Luna are immortal, but other, 'lesser' alicorns aren't. But that's outside the scope of this thread.

847823 Thank you. I AM looking for cliches. Not errors, and not merely things you've seen a million times.

847607 Now I'm imagining a stir-crazy Luna just bouncing around, Pinkie Pie style, on the moon's surface. Thank you.

Discord bringing violent things into Equestria for fun is a common one, ranging from C&C 3 Tiberium Wars commandos to Slenderman.

848511

847420

Because most of them are basically the same story, just reworded.

I basically avoid any fics that are "X and Y have sex", or "X ends up in Equestria cause magic".

All the derpy shipped with doctor fics in general bore me. But especially the ones that have derpy liking the doctor but the doctor not showing it intel the end it really ruins my fav doctor whooves stories

Pinkiepie is a evil mentally troubled to the extreme drives me nuts its not in canon and doesnt make sense its like pepole think she has to have somthing to hide or that she has another personality just because her hair falls down when shes angry or sad....