I say it's more of what you want to do with the story.

Yes, well, to a certain degree anyways.

Personal preference or obligations to a current story being written until the canonical change can be fluidly written into the current plot.

But I am not a writer.

I consider canon very important. If you don't care about canon, what's the point of writing fan fiction?

I generally like stories to relate to canon whenever and as much as possible. However, I think a bit of an artistic license for say, the sake of an interesting plot is excusable if the writer is capable of gracefully writing around it.

Tales such as Xenophilia that are based off of canon, and add to it while being their own thing is about my favorite I think...

Of course it isn't important.

If it was, there wouldn't be any fanfiction at all. But sticking closer to canon depends on the type of writer you are and the type of readership your looking to attract.

Canon is useful only until it interferes with the story being written. It also must be followed up until the change can be incorporated into the story. Or parodized. Then it can be discarded.

It is important to keep your characters from being out of character.

I also have a rule that that if the story actually could never possibly happen in the show, then it needs to have an Alternate Universe tag.

837329
Well, I was thinking specifically about writing stories starring, say, the Mane 6. Their characters are very well developed, much is known about them, etc. To generate a painfully simply example, if you want to write a story about a farmer pony who thinks nothing of lying, you better not be writing about AJ. If you want to write a story about an honest farmer that isn't a pony, well, you're not in Equestria any more, are you?

There are absolutely stories that ignore canon to their benefit and do an amazing job of it, and stories that modify or work around canon very well. But a story that flat-out contradicts canon with no explanation is jarring and annoying, IMHO.

Canon's as important as it has to be. It depends on the story.

Most are going to pretty much require a devotion to canon. I could see some fourth-wall-bending stuff that'd be less dependent upon it, though.

837313
Canon is fun if you want to stick with it because you can pick one point of the canon to stick to and dance all around it and do whatever you want because it is already established and easy to work with.

Personally, the more,and more a story goes off canon; the more, and more I dislike it. Canon of the show is gave people the inspiration to write a fan fic in the first place. If they are going to alter the canon so drastically by not sticking to the already happened events, the set personalities of the characters, and the mood of established locations; then they might as well just have taken the time and effort to write an original story.

Now of course all fanfics are "what if..." scenarios, if they weren't, then every fanfic would just be a retelling of what has already happened. I just think it is a loosely set obligation to the writer of the fanfic, to properly represent the work of the people that have created the show, and given the fanfic writer the desire to even write a fanfic in the first place.

There are of course exceptions; like anything else. I am also not saying that I loathe all fanfics that diverge grossly from set canon. I have read several that are fun stories that alter the mane six quite a bit, and while I didn't like that aspect; I did enjoy the fic overall.

837313
Since episodes aren't necessarily in chronological order, and most are bottle 'slice of life' stories, they can all pretty much be ignored based on your characterization needs. 'Spike at Your Service' and 'Hearth's Warming Eve' could realistically and logically be ignored, for example, because nothing important happens in them, or the possible world building in them could be seen as simple folklore. At least in my opinion, the show hasn't really done serious world building, and most episodes are for characterization, so there isn't much canon to be stuck to anyways.

It's no longer fan fiction if it strays too far from canon.

837313

It depends on what you want to write, and honestly, there's been a lot of recent events in the show that might make people want to deliberately steer away from canon. (i.e. Twilicorn, Discord redemption) It's honestly up to the writer. I used to think that canon was mandatory, but my views have been changed drastically over time, thanks in part to certain fics.

837313
Yes. If you start diverging from canon all over the place, you kind of look silly. People aren't going to be going: "Wow, this guy/girl is clever." They're pretty much just going to jump to the conclusion that you have no idea about the show you're writing about.

At the very least you'll have people commenting in corrections all over the place, which will do you no favors, as they scare off potential new readers.

Luckily, we have a handy Alternate Universe tag for when you totally want to take a right turn to canon. Go wild, at that point! I love a good AU, as long as I know I'm getting into one beforehand.

If you diverge on small things... well... if you're creative enough you can justify and sell most anything. Just make sure not to skip out on explaining it.

There's always going to be a wide range of opinions on this subject. As long as stories are fully and accurately tagged, readers should be able to find stories that suit their interests.

That being said, there should be about 10 more story tags available on this site. (An opinion, of course.)

837313

Canon shouldn't really have any relevance to fan fiction; the whole point to fanfiction is to write about events that never took place. If you stayed within the boundries of canon, you'd find your options severely limited.

All I care about is staying in character. Everything else is fair game. Twilight's an alicorn princess? Whoopty-fucking-shit. I don't want her to be one, so she isn't.

A fanfic should be about 'what if', not 'what is'.

837338

I agree.

Basically, until such point that the story becomes your own, the canon is the only foundation you have. So, canon is absolutely essential until such time that the story dances to your music.

I tend to regard canon – at least top-level canon, which in this case means the show itself – as sacred, and brought down from on high. If I ever break canon, it's a mistake on my part, and I don't like it when others do it.

Now, of course, I write about stuff that would never be featured on the show. I try to keep the flavor close enough to where you can imagine it existing in the same world as the show, though. Since I do superhero, I try to keep Starforge very clearly on the Superman side of the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism, and far, far away from the Punisher end. That means that after the big brawl, everyone gets back up and goes back home.

So yes, I quite care about canon. So much so, that even if I'm writing about something completely outside the show's zone, I still try to match it to the world the show implies. I blame my love of Star Wars.

837489 Well there's ignoring canon and there's going full retard.

I ignore some pretty hefty lumps of canon in my fics in order to establish some of my own for story purposes, but the broad strokes are still the same. I go by the rule that if canon gets in the way of a good story then it can be ejected like so much rubbish.

Going full retard would be like 837352 said, turning everything on its head and ending up with not very much resembling the original. It can be done, but I think I've only seen one or two fics actually pull it off. I wouldn't be able to do it.

I'm in school to be a programmer. In every industry we have standards, specifications, etc. to ensure that software (or hardware if you're in another field of engineering) behaves predictably for others to reliably use. A C compiler that sticks to the standard, while in some sense restricted, will see infinitely more use because programers know it will behave without needing to know the internals of how it works. It seems to me that canon functions similarly to standards and codes in industry: People reading the story can feel more familiar and comfortable with the characters and events occurring, which I think helps immersion a great deal, and the author needs to spend less time explaining motivations, etc. because the "standard" (the show) exists. By the way, when I write I assume the reader has seen every episode, and that could be the topic of a whole other thread I think.
Like the C compiler, deviations from the standard will almost always exist. But the author should work to mitigate them wherever possible. Ultimately, sticking to canon takes a burden off of you, the author, even if it doesn't seem like it sometimes. It's easier to adjust a carpet than it is to build a new room to put it in.

The "Alternate Universe" tag exists to create a "fork". It overrides the implicit requirement to stick to the standard and allows the author freedom to do whatever they want. It also places the burden on them to ensure that there is still some kind of canon enforced. Scheme was branched from Lisp, and it's authors had to then rigourously standardize their new language themselves because it no longer adhered to Lisp's standard.

I'm not sure if this argument is convincing by itself, but it's another way of looking at it, and I hope some of my programming brethren find this analogy appropriate and accurate.

I will say that it also depends on what stage of the writing process you are at when new canon is introduced if you stick with that or not.

For "Krastos' Krew", written in the early part of S2 but undergoing revisions and improved in the second half, both "Dragon Quest" and "Hurricane Fluttershy" threw me for a loop. In my case, I waited for both to air and then I was able to do some tweaking as to address both new problems without any major story surgery while keeping as close as possible to canon.

On the other hand, I can imagine a writer, 90% done with a fic that a new episode completely wipes out the basis for it, to not disparage and simply finish the work knowing canon threw a left turn at them. As suggested, marking that work as AU (depending on how much of an AU twist it is) allows your reader to be aware that you're broken canon even though it wasn't broken when you started writing.

My focus and preference is that characters stay in-character, they react in a manner that has some basis on who they are in the show. Events that pertain directly to their lives can be tweaked, but outright contradictions better be the focus of the story if they are made.

Cannon is important because in fan-fiction the characters already have stories establishing their traits and personalities. Re-working the ground for characters with an already established back story means you are either repeating material that has already been tread, or you are writing a whole new character.
If its the second case then just make an OC or take an in universe character and embellish on them.
Otherwise use established cannon to your advantage.

Normally my stance is this:

1) Canon characters need to be in-character. Previous posters have argued this adequately.

2) The setting is open to interpretation. Let's me honest, the show has contradicted itself on this point (is Ponyville flat or is it on a hill? Are Fluttershy and Applejack's homes far away or within hearing range of each other?) For that reason, I don't mind if an author draws their own conclusions about Ponyville or Equestria in general.

3) Likewise, the internal logistics of the canon are open to interpretation. In canon, the characters range from behaving very cartoonishly (Twi instantly recovering from a metric ton of injuries) to realistically (Dash being hospitalized for a broken wing). So in fanfiction, its entirely in the realm of the user's perogative.

... Now, that all being said....

I hold that sometimes, it's the author's right to disregard canon and go with whatever they honestly feel is better. This NEVER, EVER excuses making characters act out-of-character, but for example, let's say an episode made a major revelation that totally destroys (or at least, severely complicates) a story you already have going, or would upset a planned story, or otherwise is just something you always felt was a mistake in canon (hey, TV writers aren't perfect either).

For example--would it be right to tell all fanfic authors that they HAVE to update their stories to account for Alicorn Twilight? Even if they hated that episode (or their story was in drafting before that episode even aired)? I sure wouldn't. That's just a major example. There are numerous minor ones.

Once again though, this DOES NOT excuse OOC. Nothing excuses that. Ever.

It really depends on where you are taking your story, as other people have said above.

837313 Well, it can vary. My own fic, Peace at last, for example, takes place in between seasons 2 and 3, with the events of Past Sins in the background. In this way, it does not directly matter if it is canon or not.

837786

How was Dash' injury realistic? A rock fell on her feather.

Other than that, agreed.

837921 What rock? Dash got hospitalized for an off-screen crash.

It's "realistic" in the sense that it didn't heal immediately, and when she stressed her wing it immediately broke again.

837978

I'll have to watch it again.

Anyways, it was really more of a subplot to have her reading, but yeah.

What makes fanfiction good is the characters. Canon takes a backseat to protagonists. Give me a good tale with characters I love, and I can say screw the canon. AU tag is best tag.

Until they give me a humanized tag, that is.

What really matters is the story's canon. The show canon is the framework for the "what if" question. If the author does the work to make sure the story's canon is consistent within itself, and adequately explains any departures from show canon? This is how excellent fanfiction is made.

838356
Yeah, internal consistency is a big thing. As NoGiantRobots1983 mentioned a bit earlier, though, the source material (in this case, at least) has a few problems with consistency on a few small things. It's no excuse for a fanfic to mess up, since you have a single writer whereas they have half a dozen, but it's something to consider.

Still, canon: it's not just a good idea.

837313 While I believe that sticking to canon is important, I believe that ultimately writing a good story takes precedence over faithfulness to canon.

837313

I think that canon is wonderful as an enabler. Most of my story ideas start by taking a point of the canon and twisting it subtly, or finding a reinterpretation for a vagueness in the established story. From there, whether or not you decide to rivet your plot to "established events" depends on what is best for the story itself.

Referring back to the canon is a great way to ground the narrative; giving the reader a recognizable position from which they can examine whatever world you've created. That said, some of the best fun I've had writing has been when I went for broke and tore up the established order to suit my own intentions.

I've always believed that there is no such thing as an absolute rule that always applies, and I imagine that this is one of those instances.

There's canon, as in, perfect fidelity with the events and characters portrayed in each episode, and then there's canon, meaning respecting the strictures and differences that make Equestria NOT our world.

Things like, no television, no cell phones, no internet. All of those would create a different social dynamic, and I believe they were purposely left out in order to create a world with more social interaction and more focus on empathy between characters. Having seen how those things have changed social interaction over the last ten-fifteen years, I think that was a great move on the part of Faust and the show staff: It creates some stumbling blocks ("I gotta find so-and-so") while creating a very different worldspace. When I think of 'canon,' I think about a story following the basic world setup, and having at least some of the spirit of the Equestria we've seen created by the show staff.

I think THAT kind of canon is important, because if you casually discard that, then you're telling a generic story with generic characters. Are there stories that break that and manage to do well? Yes, but they are much more rare than good ones that obey the basic rules about Equestria.

This is why I cannot get into something like Fallout: Equestria. It takes the basic premise of the show, shreds it, and flings it confetti-like into a scenario that is diametrically opposite to what was consciously created. It's not FiM-based fiction anymore. It's fiction that takes cute, (usually) kind, colorful horses, and puts them in a world that forces them to be something else. In fact, it forces them to be humans, since that's who the story was originally told with. Is it a good story? Multiple people have told me so. But to me, it's not really a story about Ponies anymore- it makes a lot of them act like not-Ponies, and it's in a not-Equestria world.

It's like taking Ponies, turning them into humans, and throwing them into that hive of scum and villainy known as "high school."

837373
Ha! 837455 does a good job explaining my take on it too.

837567
I love this post and your username and you.

837921
You're thinking of S2E7 "May the Best Pet Win", but 837786 is referencing S2E16 "Read It and Weep".

838893
It occurs to me that Fallout: Equestria is simply the ultimate character crucible. Good character-driven stories often throw their characters into tough, unfamiliar, unpleasant situations - Littlepip into the Equestrian Wasteland, Dash into the Grid, Rarity and AJ into the library during a storm - to see how they behave and to force them to grow.

Fo:E has many failings, but I find it hard to count what you're describing among them.

Dear 839475,
I'm glad you enjoyed my post.
In response to your comments about my username and myself,


I give you a prime number to show my gratitude: 74841581

XOXO,
Alan Smithee

839475

I don't really mean to present what I say as anything more than my opinion, but I slogged through a few chapters of it and found I had very little will to continue- the relentless grinding down of everything I liked about the show was mildly depressing.

I've had many people tell me it's a good story, and they might be right- I'm not disputing the length, complexity, characterbuilding (I do happen to like Pip), or other aspect of creating a monstrously huge work of fiction. The organizational skills needed to keep it all in order while writing is something I don't know if i could do. However, it's not something that keeps to the spirit of the canon show. I think there's a difference between a story that acts as a 'character crucible' and one that breaks the world for the sake of presenting and playing in a broken world. I've read stories that are definitely character crucibles, and what I have read of FO:E feels less like that and more like someone said, "Let's see what happens if we make Equestria a hellhole."

I fully recognize that oftentimes good stories will put their characters through figurative hell. It's just that FO:E does so in a literal sense, and to me the result was such an artless subversion of what I liked about canon Equestria that it was somewhat offputting. But to get back to my point above... I feel that, at least early on FO:E is a story that doesn't have a feeling that is unique to FiM. It's a generic post-apocalyptic tale with Ponies stuck in. That, and Ponies' heads stuck on poles and... well, I'm going to stop there, because that's just.. I'm stopping.

I might continue plowing through at some point, but it's not something I enjoyed. However, I am lending credence to the opinions of you and others and not dismissing it out of hand. I cannot dismiss my basic skepticism, but I try to be objective. Occasionally.

No, really, I do. I once ate a mushroom, even though I don't like despise loathe them with the fiery hatred of a thousand Tyrant Suns, because someone said I was giving them short shrift.

Ugh, what the hell is wrong with you fungusmunchers??

839799
That's all fair, and I also don't necessarily disagree with any particular point you've made; the Wasteland is absolutely not the show, and amusingly all of the main characters are OCs. I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who read the first half and skimmed it in its entirety while I was formatting it for ebooks, and who has absolutely no knowledge of the Fallout universe. I considered it entertaining if not particularly weighty, and thought it was fascinating to see - through flashbacks, found recordings, etc - just how the Equestria we know and love from the show devolved into such a horrible place. (I do actually think kkat did a commendable job integrating the two, and explaining within the canon of the show how it all came to be, but that does happen later in the story.)

839832

The OC-ness was one thing that made me give it a chance- despite the general disapproval of them, I prefer well-written OC stories, because they can be much more creative and allow for some real innovative character building.

I have only minimal knowledge of the Fallout world, just that its a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and that's part of my dislike: I have a deep-seated dislike of post-apocalyptic settings. Many of them seem to revel in the destruction of the world we know, and that doesn't sit well with me. Again, personal preference is affecting my perception to a high degree here.

I have no wish to denigrate kkat's work, and I want to make it clear that it's all a case of what I like and my own impressions. As I said above, I like Pip, and I'm sure there are other characters I'd like. I'm not saying it's BAD; just that the absence of show canon makes it hard for me to enjoy.

I still might be wrong, and may find my opinion changing if I read through the rest of it.

839832

while I was formatting it for ebooks

...

There's a great deal of time that I could have saved myself with The Pony Fiction Vault. Especially since FiMFiction's versions are always wonky on my ebook reader, and I have to reconvert all of them.

Good to know there's a place I can poke my head if I want to re-read some of the bigger stories though. Can spare myself precious minutes on calibre.

839799
On the topic of FoE. It sounds like you just don't care for really Dark stuff.
Could have saved yourself a lot of time by just by saying that. It's a total valid reason not to like something. I'm surely not in always in the mood for sadfics. Even if sometimes there's nothing I want more than to get all teary-eyed.

FoE was put together very well. It was linked, I believe, quite amazingly to Mane 6 and such. And it has a million and one little callbacks for Fallout fans, which strictly requiring knowing it. It followed the canon when it was written without real issue.

However, the feelings it focuses on are intensely dark ones.
Gorey raiders and such is never the point. That exists because that's Fallout canon. It's the death of hope, and the tragic end for the Mane 6 that brings the tears. And oh god does it ever do that.

I adore FoE, but I can't bring myself to reread it. So... so...

840187
Bleh, posted again when I was typing.

FoE was one of those fics where, yes, it departs heavily from the tone of the show in the future.
A lot of pains are made to explain why, in general terms, the world became as it was. I never found myself really being incredulous. It was just... a lot of horrible steps, building on one another.

It's not entirely some grimdark mess.
The heroes are real heroes. They accomplish great things. They might stumble, but they're entirely admirable. You cheer for them, and want them to succeed. And the point for them is to rebuild the world, not stomp it further into dust.

But yeah. If you dislike post-apocalyptic stuff, I doubt you'll adore anything Fallout.

839475

Yeah, just saw. I'm still bothered by the fact she strained her wing when it fell on a feather (or that feather extended so some really odd length). Other than that, yeah, a lot of MLP is inconsistent. Here's something I saw which sums it up.

840217

Yes, you're right, I don't really like dark stuff, but there are a few that I have. And if I had just said that, there wouldn't have been much to say!

But thank you for the brief review, it's given me stuff to think about.

840240 There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain (I think)

840279

at the last bit.

I believe lie is just something singular. As for statistics, numbers don't lie, but the people that handle them do.

In all honesty, if I drew that, I'd have put 'WRONG!' (complete with Kevin Spacey) instead of 'LIE!'.

... think it would be far more entertaining, don't you think?

840187
I totally understand. I went into it knowing it would be some dark, horrible thing, curious to see just how exactly it could possibly still be "pony". I do also enjoy a good darkfic. The saying, I think, is "your mileage may vary".

840217
Took me a week! Still the biggest fic in the Vault, though I don't see that particular throne being usurped anytime soon. I hope. Anyway, don't miss the "All Stories" download links if you do wander back over there.

840240
A lot of every show ever is inconsistent, so you do kinda have to look the other way for little things like that, or rationalize them. For example, the Pinkie one: no reason she couldn't have ice skated during Winter Wrap Up when she was a kid for the same purpose, but it would have been presented to her as a chore so she wouldn't have smiled during.

Honestly, that sort of thing is what I dearly love about fanfiction - fanfic authors using it as a way to explain away (perceived) inconsistencies in the show canon.

840369

Maybe. I think that kinda limits what they could write, though. I'll say this, as long as characterization is handled well (for example, differentiating characterization marches on and OOC) and spirit of the world is left intact, I won't complain too much.