Since the addition of the Black Cauldron thread, there has been some recent talk regarding the "true" villain of the Chronicle and whether or not he could turn out to be a potential Bigger Bad in the world of the Disney Chronicles. That villain is Arawn Death-Lord, the "king so cruel and so evil" as mentioned in the film itself.

For those of you who have not read, or even heard much, about the original Chronicles of Prydain, Arawn Death-Lord is the true antagonist that Taran and his band of compatriots fight against in all five books, and that the Horned King, the "official" villain of the Disney film itself, was in fact a champion of Arawn himself, who only appeared in The Book of Three, not in The Black Cauldron. However, for reasons unknown to the rest of us, Arawn had become unused and unmentioned for those of us who haven't read the series, only receiving a mention in the film's prologue and his face on the damn Cochran itself, and I believe I speak for all of us die-hards that Arawn, like the film itself, could be done to better justice.

To that end, I have constructed this thread so that we may discuss a proper introduction for the being who practically deserves to be an official Disney Villain, and not the Horned King. Here, we will discuss, debate, and design Arawn to perhaps become not just a worthy Disney Villain, but perhaps the greatest Disney Villain ever devised by fans~ My hope is that together, we will make Arawn the ultimate opponent to our Equestrian heroes throughout the series, like Thanos to the Avengers, Ra's al Ghul to Batman, Sauron to the Fellowship, etc...

UPDATE 1: Here is the rough illustration of Lord Arawn, courtesy of Jen Seggio who drew this on my commission. She also takes commissions for others, so feel free to contact her.

UPDATE 2: With DM's approval and blessing, I have created and uploaded a document, regarding Arawn's biography and profile.

Source link: Lord Arawn by WottaGal0505 on DeviantArt

And don't forget the unused monster from the Godzilla franchise known as Bagan.

Sorry. Wrong group to be talking about the Godzilla franchise.

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I'm just using him as a reference.

Right. Anyway, this thread is for questions, that include but are not limited to:

1. How do we properly introduce, or build up to properly introduce, Arawn?
2. What would Arawn look like, as his physical appearance is rarely mentioned in the book or film?
3. What makes Arawn tick (his motivations, personality, etc...)?
4. Is it possible to make Arawn the Overarching Antagonist for the Mane Six and the Disney Chronicles?

1. If we can ignore the continuity of the books, instead focusing on the lore of the Disney film and forming a connection to 'The Disney Chronicles' then I think there is a way to work towards a possible introduction. If we recall during the movie, though the witches agreed to the bargain to give Taran and his friends the 'cauldron' in exchange for the sword (Which was a pretty dumb trade to be honest), there was a catch: The Black Cauldron cannot be destroyed, only it's power can be contained through a living sacrifice and up until their capture the Cauldron was pretty much useless. Now, let's go further to when the begrudgingly agreed to the Bargain to take 'back' the Cauldron in exchange for Gurgi's revival which initially they deemed it 'impossible' (They only 'agreed' seconds later when they were called out for not being as 'powerful' as they made themselves out to be). At this point you must be asking, 'Dramamaster, what are you getting at with this?' Let's consider this, every bargain must 'always' have a catch I'm not thinking Gurgi's revival would only be temporary or if he's bound by some contract thus limiting his freedom, nope that's not what we are talking about. But you'd have to imagine if you will... If Gurgi was able to be brought out of the Cauldron... Who's to say he was the only soul to get out?

2. I've tried to do some research on Arawn for possible designs and there's barely much to find. Every time I look for Arawn I see a bunch of those skeletons in relation to the 'Cauldron Born' during the climax of the movie and other pictures show some guy wearing a helmet made of a skull, though a concern for that is that he may look like his champion 'The Horned King'. So that's going to be a slight bit tricky to pull off. Appearance wise, I think a rough idea would be that he 'appears' alive... Yet 'not' alive just the same, if that makes any sense.

3. The most we know about Arawn as he's barely mentioned in the movie was that he was so cruel and so evil, even Gods feared him. Which leads us to believe that Arawn won't hesitate to destroy anyone or anything even if they don't pose a threat to him, if only to prove that he's an all powerful king whose power cannot be challenged. That perhaps he's one of those kings in which everything he's built can never be enough and he's constantly seeking to grow his power. And probably if he were to appear in the 'Disney Chronicles', having spent a lifetime in the bowels of hell with his soul trapped within the 'Black Cauldron' the last thing he wants is to go back. Now I'm not saying he'll be the kind of villains who hide in the background and let someone else do his battles for him, though it would be smart, but if he were to be in battle again he cannot afford to underestimate anyone or get overconfident because that last time probably cost him his very well-being.

4. At the moment, under all things considered, it is 'possible' if not 'probable'. As someone with a knack of finding potential in elements that could benefit for story development and such, I think Arawn would be such an unexpected villain to incorporate into the 'Disney Chronicles' because if no one has ever read from the books they would not know that he was the real villain apart from 'The Horned King'. Now, 'The Horned King' can keep his status as the villain for this movie but if we seek for Arawn's return then 'The Horned King' would merely be a warm-up for the ponies for the 'real' threat even when they are dealing with some of Disney's best villains sometime after the events of 'The Black Cauldron'. Now I wouldn't know at some point 'when' he'd make his presence felt, but just as Grogar and his 'Legion of Doom' are setting the stage for what's to come later this season then it surely stands to reason the same can be said for Arawn at some point.

Though I think since it'll be a long ways before we even get to the Bronze Age, I would think the ponies would be dealing with other 'arcs' while the series is still 'young' so to speak though what those may be remains to be undetermined or if deemed absolutely necessary.

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1. Well, the idea of the unintentional release of Arawn's spirit from the Black Cauldron is a valid and possible way, but there is the problem of how to make it possible for Arawn to regain physical. Still, another idea would be to introduce an original character who serves as like the surprise character. In this case, perhaps it is possible that Arawn, having foreseen his own imprisonment, somehow found a way to magically eject his very spirit from his body, leaving it along with the magic he possessed behind (since it is clear that he somehow had command over the dead, and the fact that his inspiration is the actual Welsh god of death itself). That being said, like all spirits, he would need to find a human host to perfectly merge with but lay somewhat dormant within (the host being unaware of this spirit), until the Cauldron itself is undone, releasing the power stored within (especially if we can follow the logic from Twilight's Kingdom that magic "cannot disappear into thin air", as Celestia put it. So it is remotely possible that Arawn's power would have to reunite with a proper recipient (the human host that Arawn would possess) and as a result reawaken the dormant spirit within~
2. While the idea of being undead is interesting, I'd like to point out that those drawings could also be early designs of the Horned King himself (due to the strong similarities between the two). If that is the case, then perhaps there is more room to discuss his physical appearance, though I would actually see him as fully human and intact but with the touch of death on a corpse (pale skin, cold touch, longer hair and claws, blood from the mouth, etc) but still have the physique of youth, like muscles and chiseled features.
3. As for personality, I agree with some of what you think. However, given his supposed magic (and given that he is often called "Death-Lord" for good reason, it is possible that Arawn could have an obsession with Death itself, that perhaps he could be more of a fanatical overlord who worships the idea of Death like a deity and sees himself as its prime prophet, seeing it as the most powerful force in existence~ And after hearing about this "friendship magic" being more powerful, perhaps that in turn is what would ultimately drive him to conflict with the Mane Six and Equestria itself for boasting of a power stronger than Death, seeing them as "true adversaries" in his self-styled war against life, and as a result friendship~
4. As previously stated, if he did possess sorcery that allowed him to conjure the Cauldron-Born before imprisonment in the Black Cauldron, it would also make sense that he could somehow have the ability to draw forth allies from different worlds, even worlds outside the Book like Equestria or the EQG world (if desired), forming a small group that would go forth and gather allies for his newfound plans of war against friendship~

Anyway, I do agree that this is too early to settle, but I think it would be wise to let others have their say, IF we can encourage more into participating rather than have the two of us being the only ones discussing this.

1. Then again, if we were to add a surprise character to serve as a 'vassal' for Arawn, would it have to be human? At least until Arawn is able to regain his power to restore himself to his former appearance, wouldn't some other form be something hardly anyone would expect?

2. It's possible to incorporate those elements if a decision is made to have him retain a human form, at least even for a spiritual form. Like maybe it was how he last appeared shortly before his demise. Or if that is how he would look if he regains his humanity, I could see him stuck in between life and death so to speak.

3. I do believe that could work.

4. It would make him a formidable adversary for the series I should think so. Since it would be implied he takes great interest in death, it may be possible for him to resurrect the greatest Disney Villains of all time to fight under his command whether they would want to or not. He'd practically have them against the wall, at the end of their ropes, that if they want their revenge on the ponies (And friends) for interfering with their stories they must obey Arawn or risk going back to the depths of hell.

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1. The idea is actually that perhaps the human host is himself unaware of Arawn's spirit and with his own personality and thoughts, yet is also subconsciously guided by it, like a sleeper agent (i.e. the search of the Cauldron and a fear of the Enchanted Sword itself), but all the same having all those memories locked away. And then, by releasing the power within the Cauldron itself, the spirit and its power would reunite within the human host, thus overriding, or at least suppressing deep inside, the body with Arawn's essence and thoughts.

2. The initial form of this character (the human host) would be heavily armored or clothed at first, to hide the "deathly" traits that came from being possessed. Reason being, sometimes being possessed by a spirit will often form on your body indications of wounds or traits that the spirit has endured in life. Anyway, Arawn would not want to use a body that it has already been recognized by in the past. It would therefore suffice to use the new form (the human host) as its current form. But in the end, the form would appear to be humanoid, but yet not be human, like how Voldemort making the Horcruxes made him less and less human. Arawn's obsession would have made him less and less human.

3. Of course. Like I said earlier, I often think of Arawn as similar to Ra's al Ghul~

4. And not to mention, he could use his power over Death to threaten currently living Disney and Equestrian villains into joining under his banner~

1. Sounds like a plausible argument in my book.

2. Makes sense to me.

3. I'm starting to get the picture.

4. For sure, that could work and prove that he'd be a threatening villain for the 'Disney Chronicles' compliments of the person who agreed to bring him back to life through this series (If he sees merit in it).

I can also imagine that much like Ra's al Ghul, Arawn would be the type to primarily use 'swords' aside from any form of sorcery he could come up with (If we're comparing the two characters of course). Almost makes you wonder if that mysterious sword Taran found in the catacombs could be implied to have originally belonged to 'Arawn' or someone else. I don't think that part was ever made clear.

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Well, in the book, the Enchanted Sword is in fact Dyrnwyn, the blade which was enchanted to be used for justice and, what's more, for the sole purpose of fatally wounding Arawn~

In fact, there is even a warning engraved upon its scabbard in the series: "Draw Dyrnwyn, only thou of noble worth, to rule with justice, to strike down evil. Who wields it in good cause shall slay even the lord of death." So, just as only Samurai Jack's sword was the only thing to fatally harm the Master of Masters, Dyrnwyn (the Enchanted Sword) is the bane of Arawn himself~

What's more, the king whose castle the Horned King took over was likely a reference to King Gwydion, one of the Sons of Don, a ruling house who liberated much of Prydain from the rule of Arawn~

What's more, since the sword's power was conjured for the sole purpose of destroying Arawn, as long as the sword retains its magic, its purpose has not yet been fulfilled~ Not to mention, Dynrwyn appears to have a mind of its own, as it can easily discern those it deems unworthy of its power or not yet ready for it, from either refusing to be drawn to burning the attempted wielder.

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Which all the more proves to me why trading the sword for the cauldron had to be the dumbest move Taran has done... The dumbest thing 'any' Disney protagonist would do. So long as the Cauldron didn't have an undead body to sacrifice to make it work, the pot alone is about as useful as a gumbo pot without shrimp or sausage to cook. Meanwhile, this sword being so powerful could defeat armies add to the fact it somehow has a life of it's own. And by giving up the sword to the witches, if in case 'Arawn' was considered to be created for 'The Disney Chronicles'... They just gave away the only power that 'could' destroy Arawn physically and spiritually if possible.

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Well, such a thing can be improved, like perhaps finding a way to trade the sword back, but that will have to be a topic for the other thread to discuss.

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Indeed it would, wouldn't it? Well we still have a long ways to go before we get to that movie. There's plenty of time to go over a concept or two.

Yes, but I would want more than just the two of us to bounce ideas off of.

More people will come into this conversation when they decide to, not because they 'have' to. Me, if it were up for me I can debate about this topic for hours. Because unlike those lengthy meetings at my office job, this subject is something more fun to talk about and it's more up my alley.

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1. How do we properly introduce, or build up to properly introduce, Arawn?
Maybe when the Equestrian Heroes are called into the Black Cauldron story, Twilight begins having these dreams (or premonitions) that warns her of the Arawn's approaching resurrection. And we could have one of the Equestria heroes get captured

2. What would Arawn look like, as his physical appearance is rarely mentioned in the book or film?
How about we don't describe the details of his appearance and leave it ambiguous for the readers? Leave the question unanswered. Kinda like how Stephen King did it with "He Who Walks Behind The Rows" or Pennywise's "true" form. To me, it kinda fuels the nightmare because we don't know exactly what kind of evil we're dealing with, and we don't know if we even want to know.

3. What makes Arawn tick (his motivations, personality, etc...)?
I'm thinking maybe, like Yen Sid and a degree to some of Walt Disney's characters, Arawn is also aware of the Book of Disney. And the fact that his champion, the Horned King, practically "usurped" his role as the leading villain, while he was forgotten, motivates him to regaining his full powers locked away in the Black Cauldron, and then rewrites all the stories in the Book of Disney to his own liking.

And while the Horned King is still the main villain of the Black Cauldron story, he's still under Arawn's control.

4. Is it possible to make Arawn the Overarching Antagonist for the Mane Six and the Disney Chronicles?
Probably.

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1. A premonition huh? In a way, that could be an effect on being an alicorn just as we've seen with Celestia (Something to which Luna knows very well). It may seem like a nightmare for Twilight but the truth being is that what she's experiencing is a villain. She may not know where it's going to happen, how it's going to come true, or when this moment will happen, but it will all the more make Twilight very worried.

2. That's actually not a bad strategy. Since we really don't know much about Arawn anyway and given we barely have a description for him, it wouldn't be so terrible if his true form was kept in the shadows for the most part. Arawn could generally be anybody, hence why it's been discussed on the possibility that his very spirit could possess a character (Particularly an OC) as a way to sustain himself even though the effects of the possession could be noticeable. Course, it would hurt if the figure's overall appearance was kept hidden by a long cloak, some gloves, clothes that cover every part of his body, and a mask/helmet to cover the entire head. This way it would help to keep the readers guessing yet scared when they do get to see the villain in action.

3. That's actually not a bad idea. While the Disney Chronicles has made a slight effort to bring in a few 'forgotten' characters cut from the original product as a means to improve them in a sense, Arawn himself would've been bitter that his spot as the main villain was taken by a guy who used to be 'his' servant. If Arawn is well aware of the 'Book' itself, he'd want to be able to find a way to escape his story and capture the book so he can rewrite the tales in his own image. Hence thus Yen Sid pressing the importance of keeping the book safe to the Mane Six and their friends, knowing that there is always a chance that an evil force will try to do harm to the space-time continuum written in the pages. And while it would be easy to suspect all the major villains more popular in the Disneyverse, no one would 'ever' suspect a villain who never got to have his chance because it was taken away from him.

4. Which all the more stands to reason Arawn could have 'potential' to be a villain solely for 'The Disney Chronicles' if it's decided it's worth taking a chance to do so.

We should see what Dino thinks of it.

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If word of this hasn't reached Dino by now, he'll definitely want to hear about it for sure. There's no guarantee he'll accept the idea even if there's promise for what it could for 'The Disney Chronicles'. But given this has grown into a rather fascinating topic to some degree, I think the potential Arawn's presence can offer beyond the 'Chronicles of Prydain' and in turn granting him a spot in something 'Disney' related, of which he was initially rejected the first time, could very well demonstrate what was proven to be a mistake to miss out.

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1. True. Plus, it would be something she would end up obsessing a bit over, even after The Black Cauldron, whether or not she is part of the group that enters the story.
2. DM and I agree that we should at least give Arawn a physical form to work with, like an OC. However, I don't quite agree that Arawn is anything like a Lovecraftian horror (i.e. Nyarlathotep, IT, He Who Walks Behind The Rows, etc...) In the original series, he was depicted as being a mortal man who studied under an enchantress who was back then Queen of Prydain, learning all of her tricks and mastering a few (such as shapeshifting). So maybe while his true form could be up for discussion, Arawn's ability to shapeshift could be useful in recruiting villains and unknowing heroes. And even without his shapeshifting, it IS still remotely possible that perhaps Arawn could have magically split his spirit, leaving his power behind until the spell on the Cauldron was lifted, and found a human host to use (for the time being) until his power is restored.
3. The idea of Arawn being aware of the Book of Disney and wanting full control over it would fit in with my idea of Arawn being like this religious fanatic towards Death, as the Book would allow him control over the lives of everyone in it. However, I think bitterness about being forgotten is only but a small part. There is still the question on how the Equestrian heroes would show more of his personality. If anything, I would say that he becomes obsessed with them once he fails to possess any of them once freed, having to resort to using a human host, while making him question what kind of power could be stronger than his~
4. Agreed.

1. I should hope Twilight enters 'The Black Cauldron'. After all, she and her friends are the main characters of the series. I would think it be most unfair to let her be left out. But if we're talking Celestia's ability to have visions... Then yeah, she would be worried because Arawn is not the kind of villain they've ever encountered. Though it's difficult to say, there's the slightest chance he may be stronger if not equal to Grogar.

2. Careful research is needed especially on a subject as complex as Arawn. We know his roots, we knew how he learned his skills, and some of his abilities could prove useful. Why there was this guy who made an insane list of OCs to fit each of the movies that were listed (Though it's going to be awkward to tell him some films were removed from the line-up) and with his permission... Perhaps each of those forms (Some of them at least) could serve as a form for him to take on occasion (Even if he doesn't give us permission to use their names).

3. It is important to consider the big picture when it comes to Arawn. He may not be the kind of villain who wants his name to be remembered, but he does seek a near impossible goal: Complete control over everybody. The ponies may prove to be more interesting to him than someone like Taran and his friends because whenever the ponies are around, even if the stories follow as the movies do they've caused some 'slight' yet 'significant' changes that for him wouldn't go unnoticed. Somehow the ponies and other visitors that come into the book have left an influence, both good and bad, and so he's going to want to get as close to the 'mane' group as possible. And if he cannot seize control over the 'Elements of Harmony', not even Spike, then he's going to need a host 'nobody' would ever suspect. Someone 'else' created 'just' for this series, perhaps at time giving us a Jekyll & Hyde or even a Sam Raimi's Green Goblin so to speak.

Still, if anyone was to know an artist who could do a commission for Lord Arawn, I can easily work out a description for him, and commission the reference myself~

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Then I'd definitely be the wrong person to ask. My artistic skills are so terrible, a kindergartener would do better than me.

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I was only asking if anyone knew of anyone who could commission him. I never said that a person in this group had to do it.

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Well... I do know a person who is a fan of 'The Black Cauldron', I recall she did a review of that movie sometime ago (Not sure fi she follows the books). She's known as 'TheITinFIT' on YouTube doing all those comedic skit videos, but she also does reviews on her own wordpress page. Her name is Jen Seggio, she happens to be a friend I keep in touch with now and then. I don't know if she'd be willing to commission for an artpiece but she's the one person I know and respect.

I certainly was not going to mention by old writing partner, even if he's a fan of the original books (But he wouldn't do it for free).

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Well then, perhaps you can inquire to her about the commission. Even if she does not do the art herself, perhaps she knows of a fan art who she can trust to give out the kind of commission we would be looking for in designing Arawn~

I'll see what I can do at this point. Even if she's busy with other projects (I hear she's putting together a book), she'll definitely know some people. I'll definitely need to ask.

And fortunately Theo, I think Miss Seggio would be very interested in performing the commission piece. If you seek her out on facebook, she's the pretty lass with the Mickey Mouse headpiece. Hopefully there aren't too many 'Jen Seggios' on there. Or to make it easy, look for 'TheITinFIT' on YouTube there are tons of contact information you can find on her page.

For Arawn, anyone have any suggestions in terms of a template actor (voice actor) to best fit Prydain's Lord of Death?

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Hmm...

Idris Elba... Benedict Cumberbatch... Josh Brolin...

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Hmmm...I'd be all for Cumberbatch...but I would also add Luke Goss (Nuala from Hellboy II), Jason Isaacs (skekSo from Age of Resistance), Ron Perlman, and David Warner (DCAU's Ra's al Ghul) ~

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Hmm... yeah I can see that. Granted I'm not too familiar with all those guys, but I do know about Ron Perlman. Course, he's often portrayed as an anti-hero but he can make a solid villain.

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Yeah, I sort of imagined Arawn to having a broad range of tones that vary on the mood:

- A smooth, almost dulcet low tone for when he is calm, contemplative, or in malaise
- A loud, piercing, and deep shout for when he is angry or in denial (usually whether faced with failure or in denial about his own demise), especially when making an example of someone
- A gravelly and perhaps rasping voice that comes almost like you just came back down from an intense heart attack, usually following Arawn's bouts of rage and accompanied by coughs, as if he is reminded briefly of his own finite life
- A clear, commanding, and almost charismatic flair when motivating his own "allies" and soldiers

Basically...I imagine Arawn to be the man who, despite his philosophy of "death over all", is in denial of his own end, and is likely to conceal his own fear of what lies beyond his own existence. So he will either conquer death and rule everything or, if necessary, take everything out with him, much like Voldemort and the Skeksis~

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Hmm... yes... that does scream potential I must say. Makes me want to see Arawn in the flesh of 'The Black Cauldron'.

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Jen Seggio came through with the artwork for Arawn Death-Lord. Mind you, it's a rough concept, but it's at least something to jump off from~

https://i.imgur.com/PBsLpLe.jpeg

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I think the link's broken. I can't go into it. So I'm just going to imagine that it looks promising.

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Try this~

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Can't get in. No rights to look at this. I think security on this link is tight.

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Well, the original is a JPG file that's 149 KB. Is that too big? Or how do I add a picture from downloads to the channel again?

I'm just going to hope that Seggio can post the picture on her deviantart page or something. Maybe I'll see it then.

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Ah okay... now I see the sketch right now. And actually... it's not half bad. I see what Mrs. Seggio did with this. That even looks like the sword Taran found.

Check the first post for an update on Arawn and his story~!

I've personally reviewed the work he made on Arawn before his posting, and I do believe there's some potential in all this. He's got a big thing going on.