Since it's come up a couple of times on the forums, I thought it would be nice to have this, and I asked Lady Froey and got her permission. This thread's for asexuals, demisexuals, and grey As, people who are questioning, and just plain people to come and talk about the asexuality spectrum. People on the aromantic spectrum welcome too, of course!

A couple of handy resources:

Books:
The Invisible Orientation: An Introduction to Asexuality. Helpful introduction. Almost as useful to hand someone who is close to an asexual or who "doesn't believe" in asexuality.

AVEN: The Asexuality Visibility and Education Network. Info on lots of stuff, plus a forum.
The Great Attraction Master Post. For those of you wondering, "what does it mean? My God, what does it mean!" List of the different types of attraction: sexual, aesthetic, romantic, etc.
Hallelujah, It's Raining Labels. For the curious. May not be for the label-phobic.
Asexuality: The Hidden Orientation: An article from U.S. News and World Report.
Did you know you can be asexual and also kinky as heck? Apparently, you can.
The Thinking Asexual has some handy resources.
The Asexual Census. There's some really interesting information in here for trans people, sexual people, and just people curious about people people.
The Are You Demisexual? Test. I found this limited in its utility, because it conflates sexuality with romanticism, but it's a start.
Just for funsies, the Are You Sapiosexual? test.
The Asexual Agenda. This is an interesting general site, with all kinds of news and links.
Demi-Grey: An advice blog for asexuals, demisexuals, Grey-A, and questioning people. This blogger also runs
Demisexuality.org: a resource site, and
Demi Grey Speaks, a personal blog with interviews, etc.
Kinky Asexuals, aka "Asexuals Involved in BDSM." What it says on the can. A bigger group than you'd think, perhaps!
The Carnival of Aces. Every month, a different blogger hosts a themed set of blog entries on a given topic. Incredible variety here, including religion, family, relationship expectations, the media, etc.
Ace of Cakes. Unrelated, or is it?

I'll add more as I find 'em and have time. If you've got some good ones, I'll add those.

4190407 "So, why'd you post this, Scoots?"

Someone's gotta.

"Oh, come on. No one could possibly be interested in something and want to talk about it if they don't personally identify with it!"

I think that's bullshit, but whatever.

"Are you asexual?"

Nope.

"Are you demisexual?"

I dunno? Since no one seems to know what that even is. I've heard demisexuals described as having a low sex drive. This . . . does not appear to be the case, at least not for me. That also doesn't fit what the sites describe as demisexuality. Maybe I'm just super picky or whatever. I've also heard it described as "really just a Tumblr category that isn't real," and that sounds dangerously like a LOT of other dismissed sexualities to me. Anyway, this isn't a diagnosis, and the thread's not about answers--just a place to chat.

I really liked this post: Food Analogies to Describe Asexual Attitude Towards Sex. It takes a lot of the stress out of the topic. Here's the demisexual attitude:

So you happen to really love cheeseburgers. But you’re sort of picky about it. You won’t eat them just anywhere. In fact, you have a favorite place that serves them, a place where you have a lot of cool memories because you’re a regular. You don’t want to eat burgers anywhere else, even if they taste just as good, because you really, really like the burgers at your place. And part of the reason why you like those burgers so much is because of the place itself. There’s a whole sort of personal mystique you’ve built around this restaurant. Maybe you could get a burger elsewhere that’s just as good or better, maybe there are awesome burgers out there that you don’t even know about, but it doesn’t matter to you. You’re attached to your place, so that’s where you go. You like the way you feel when you go to your place, and that’s part of what makes the experience good for you. And if you can’t go there, then you don’t feel particularly enthusiastic about eating burgers.

Like I said, about myself, I dunno. Some of that could describe me, although I'm cool with Chris Evans and Chris Hemsworth wandering around without shirts forevermore. I just don't want to do anything about it. The point is, it's interesting sometimes, and it's also nice to talk to other people and listen to their experiences, so yeah. Go nuts.

4190407
Sorry... what's a grey A?

4190407
Wasn't expecting a thread of this kind of detail, but I hope it helps people. I myself do not have much knowledge about Asexuality other than the basics, so maybe this thread will give me a better idea.

4190500

Asexuality and sexuality are not black and white; some people identify in the gray (spelled "grey" in some countries) area between them. People who identify as gray-A can include, but are not limited to those who:

- do not normally experience sexual attraction, but do experience it sometimes
- experience sexual attraction, but a low sex drive
- experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them
- people who can enjoy and desire sex, but only under very limited and specific circumstances

4190533
Thank ye.

4190533 Thanks! Yeah, I hoped it would be helpful. I had no idea of the vast spectrum out there until I went over to AVEN for some reason and saw it for myself. So many, uh, Shades of Grey . . .

Sigh. Those would have been much more interesting books. To me, anyway. But I don't think they would have sold very well.

4191026
Nice one, I need a good laugh

(edit: whoops, the comment I was replying to got deleted!)

All grey-A is just that: a grey area. It means that someone very, very rarely experiences sexual attraction. Or it just means that they don't totally know yet, because sexual attraction to people vs libido vs kink can be confusing or overlap. Asexuality has a lot of variations, some are into kink or masturbate or have fantasies or have aversions to the very idea of sex altogether or write erotica and yes, some aces are attracted to people once in a blue moon. Because those people don't feel 100% ace (or straight or bi or pan) but still feel like they're under the umbrella, they call themselves grey. However, all of those people do feel that they are, overall, ace. Just a different kind of ace, the same as there are different flavors of cake, you know. (Because the law requires at least one cake metaphor in any asexual discussion)

If somebody doesn't experience sexual attraction 95% of the time, then what do you do with that five percent? Are they automatically straight now? Or is this a numbers game and that five percent doesn't count at all? Should we bring out the calculators and crunch numbers to figure out who's in the club and who isn't? Sexuality isn't a binary, it's a spectrum, and forcing people to fit into a binary hurts more often than it helps.

As a small aside, this very issue is why I personally prefer the broader term "queer" as opposed to LGBT. It's a bit broader and... well, frankly as an ace I actually don't feel welcome under the LGBT label. Not yet, anyway.
I rarely tell people I'm ace because people have never heard of asexuality and when they do, they think you're sick or confused or prudish or special snowflakes. That or "Asexual? I bet I can change that! lolololol"

4192599

I rarely tell people I'm ace because people have never heard of asexuality and when they do, they think you're sick or confused or prudish or special snowflakes. That or "Asexual? I bet I can change that! lolololol"

My favourite ([/sarcasm]) was repetitive experience of the following:

"I'm asexual." -me
"lol you reproduce by division/parthenogenesis?" -idiots who think they're clever

4192633

I'm actually not really a fan of the term, just for that reason, but in the absence of anything else . . .

I once had a mind-numbingly stupid conversation with a guy who kept flaming M/M stories. Apparently, I was wrong to refer to him as a homophobe, because he wasn't scared of homosexuals, and if anything, I was the one who was a-scared.

Truth be told, it actually isn't a completely accurate term to apply to all bigots who hate on gay people, but 'orientationalist' would be kind of cumbersome.

4193252

I've heard "heterosexist" as well. Still doesn't roll off the tongue quite so smoothly, though.

4193252

Further thought: I do not ever believe people who say they are not afraid and shouldn't be called homophobes. It is invariably about irrational fear, whether fear of having to put up with The Gays hitting on them (because your hatred is such a turn-on, asshole) or fear of eternal torture if they don't believe exactly what their pastor told them about gay people or whatever else.

For larger institutions, it's often a fear of losing their moral authority if public opinion turns in favour of LGBT folk, and I guess that one would be rational except that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy they themselves made long ago ("We'll lose our moral authority if The Gays get rights and recognition! Clearly the solution is to oppress them more so they don't get those rights and recognition! Wait why is everyone turning away from our preachers?!") and thus really their own fault for starting with an irrational perspective and abusive method.

Stuff like that.

4193418

I wouldn't believe someone who said that they were without fear of any kind, either. Personally, I can remember a time when the thought of being accused of being gay was a scary thought. Fortunately, today, the prospect has about as much impact as being accused of being a girl, and that kind of died in the fifth grade.

You make a compelling case for all homophobia basically breaking down into forms of fear, but it's not something that I'm simply going to assume for each and every case.

In the spirit of staying on-topic . . .

4190407

I've known of asexuality for a while now, but many terms, such as 'demisexual', are things that I had not heard of prior to joining the former incarnation of this group.

I feel like we keep adding on letters to 'LGBT' for the sake of inclusiveness, but I think that we're really just scratching the surface on how diverse we really are. That acronym's gonna get mighty cumbersome real quick, if you ask me.

I could sit here and think about which is which is which in terms of whatever romantic tendencies I subscribe, be it aromantic, romantic, demisexual, etc, but I'm pretty content in not over-analyzing whatever it is that I am. I know that I like women, that I'm not interested in being in a relationship, and that my libido isn't high enough that long bouts of celibacy is a problem for me.

I'm probably just boring old straight, but whatever.

I personally wouldn't have any usefulness for a label, but if it could help someone figure out what it is that they're after, or to combat ignorance, then more power to it.

Let me say right out that people's feelings vary on whether asexuality "belongs" with LGBTQ+. It can get very heated. I'm not taking a position either way.

4193541 Well, there are a variety of reasons people use labels. One is to "diagnose" other people (I'm not a fan.) Other reasons include the relief of "phew. THAT makes sense. There are other people out there who feel the same way."

I had a more personal response to this written up, but chickened out.

4190457

So you happen to really love cheeseburgers. [...]

This is so close to home... I really like French dips, but only one place seems to make them any good around here.

Seriously, though, it probably is what I'm feeling like. I'm just currently waiting to find that one restaurant, so to speak, that actually works.

[A sociology teacher noted that statistically there are actually about 30,000 people at any one time that could fit all of the qualities someone defines as being "the one".]

4194114

Let me say right out that people's feelings vary on whether asexuality "belongs" with LGBTQ+.

Can still be an ally.

4194129 I only just got up the confidence to say to well-meaning friends, "I'm glad online dating worked for you, but it does not and will not work for me." I'm not going to meet a total stranger and feel "the spark," and the idea that I'm there explicitly to be sized up for future sexual purposes puts me right off. It's a waste of everyone's time. If I'm absorbed in another activity and becomes friends with a person doing that activity--that works. Sometimes.

When it comes to burgers, though, I'm a total slut, and I'd be even worse if I could still eat cheese.

4194114

Well, there are a variety of reasons people use labels. One is to "diagnose" other people (I'm not a fan.) Other reasons include the relief of "phew. THAT makes sense. There are other people out there who feel the same way."

I cringe every time someone tries to diagnose themselves. I've had more than one person tell me that they were a sociopath, when it was clear that they were not. In regards to other people making the diagnosis/uneducated assessment, I've heard some pretty stupid things. I know someone who's bisexual, but could probably be convinced by others that she is, simply because she does lean more towards the male side of things. Without any party having any knowledge of sexual orientation being more of a spectrum, misinformation can be reinforced quite easily.

I had a more personal response to this written up, but chickened out.

Well, it's the Internet, and the things that you say, don't really go away. I'm probably a little more free with personal information than I really ought to be.

4193262 Kind of a late response, but I've heard and used "heterosexism" to mean something other than homophobia, or something more subtle. It can be as simple as assuming everyone is straight, and making social and work arrangements accordingly. Simply ignoring anything other than cishet orientations, refusing to see non-heteosexual families and people, thinking of including GBLT families in school as "teaching about homosexuality" without recognizing that the default isn't neutral, but is "teaching about heterosexuality": those things are heterosexist.

There may also be a homophobic element to it, but sometimes it just comes from the ignorant position of privilege: "I am a cishet person and never have to think about this stuff, so why are you bringing it up?"

4190407
I've heard of demisexuality as someone experiencing sexual attraction only after they've formed a strong bond with their significant other.

I think I'm most likely demisexual, or some variant.

4190457

"Oh, come on. No one could possibly be interested in something and want to talk about it if they don't personally identify with it!"

This is a question I ask myself a lot is: "Why did I even join this group in the first place?"

According to that survey we did a few months back, about one fifth of the people in this group are straight, including myself, so point disproven.

4193418

I agree. If 'phobe' means 'fear,' then they'res no point in calling someone a 'homophobe' if they're not afraid.
However, I think that most anti-gay attitudes stem from simple fear of the different/unknown, and the prevalence of fear tactics in anti-gay propaganda proves this.

Is this going to be the official asexual thread? If so, shouldn't it be stickied so it doesn't get buried by newer threads and subsequently forgotten?

4333316 I'd be happy to see it stickied, but that's up to Lady Froey.

This... is a very interesting thread. And possibly personally relevant?

I don't know. But that's why I find it interesting, since asexuality is something which I know next to nothing about and have always considered as having no sexual interest period. The fact I'm surprised to find there's a spectrum might explain a lot about me.

The point is that a stickied discussion thread with resources is something that strikes me as a good idea, if only because it puts those resources in a position which can be easily found and won't get lost so.ewhere in the shuffle of threads.

I've added to the resources on the front page. I hope people enjoy them and get something out of them. This month's Carnival of Aces is going to be on one of our favorite topics, labels. Keep an eye on Becoming A Person for those posts.

4352255 Welcome to the group of people who are willing to ask questions about themselves and listen to others! That's a tiny, tiny group, from what I've seen, but it's always worth taking the trouble, I think.

I'd offer cake, but I don't think I'm authorized to quite yet.

4350296

Okay.

OK, folks, I've added a WHOLE LOT of links and resources in the top post! Explore and enjoy. You'll also notice that I've added "romantic spectrum" to the thread title. There's another dedicated discussion thread on the subject, but I wanted to be clear that aromantic/grey romantic, etc. folks are more than welcome to come and talk about their experiences here!

4358100 I like that very much--and it's a nice explanation for those who don't understand. And the artist is right: sooner or later, everyone is in that boat. Multiple times, even.

4358100

I read and appreciated that link. I do think I understand more now, despite that I'm a very very very romantic person (maybe not in all of the stereotypical ways) in relationships. Very nice!

4190407 New book: The Invisible Orientation: An Introduction to Asexuality.

It doesn't claim to be the final word or a super-comprehensive study: just a good basic book for the library, a handy book to read, and a helpful thing to hand someone when they say "asexuality isn't real."

4190407
So today is the start of Asexual Awareness week. Linky.

4791110 Thank you! I've been tempted to repost that on Facebook, but since I'm a teacher, anything that comes close to talking about my sexuality feels weird. On the other hand, asexuals, like bisexuals, tend to be invisible, so I'm going to rustle up some gonads and do it.

4791148
Heh, best of luck.

In honour of Ace awareness week, I'm back and I come bearing Topical Cake...

I was never sure about my Ace status before really, but... I broke up with my ex and yeah, I'm definately demisexual or grey-A.
Hormones probably don't help, my t levels are pretty low now. not really sure that makes a real difference though.

4808568
Hey! Welcome back, was wondering if you would come back around.

Also nice cake.

4808568 I love the cake!

I've had low T levels, too, and have been treated for it (even women are supposed to have some). It damps your sex drive, but you can be asexual and still have a sex drive. You just aren't primarily sexually attracted to other people. For me, the ace in the hole (if you'll excuse the expression), was realizing that I didn't have the same reactions to "hot" people, or sex scenes in movies. I don't like watching HBO because my primary thought is, "aren't you cold?"

4808801
It's almost a year since someone did a post here, and I was reminded recently it was Asexual Awareness Week.

Soooo, yay.

5589661 And what a reminder it was, with one person flipping their shit and accusing another person of making a fashion statement.

5590330
You know, I really don't appreciate it when people put words in my mouth. If you're that bloody upset about it, then take it up with me personally. PMs exist. Stop being passive-aggressive all over the group, though.

5590395 Happy Asexual Awareness week to you too!

Hope you get to witness the lovely dress sense the pride people wear when they go on their parades!

5590422
Rose, we are all trying to be a friendly community here, that includes you as well. Please stop stirring up shit with other users on the group.

4190407
Don't know if I'm greysexual of asexual or anything like that. I'm probably too young to tell. But, really, the idea of sex just seem kinda disgusting and immoral

I am an Ace, through and through. Like, I might have sex, but only to have kids. Is this along the lines of grey?

4190533

- do not normally experience sexual attraction, but do experience it sometimes
- experience sexual attraction, but a low sex drive
- experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them
- people who can enjoy and desire sex, but only under very limited and specific circumstances

Lady froey that all just sounds like varying degrees of low sex drives. Which occurs natural in some humans . The reason for the lists above are down to some humans having lower or very low hormone levels. Which as a result affects their need or want for sex. I really struggle to see why it is part of the LGBT. It is neither a gender nor a sexuality. I would get gay asexuals or transgender asexuals but just asexual/ gray A, seems out of place.

5951447

5951458 Look. If you disagree with me then say so. Put forward to me an argument that I can either reflect on or maybe even change my point of view on. Help me amend an ignorant view point if you see it as such. Allow me to become more open minded. Or at the very least have a civilized discussion with me over it. Simply putting a frowny face does not do anything.

I know this may come as a surprise. But not every comment that is negative is done with the intent to cause harm or offend people. it is said due to a lack of understanding and can in most cases be resolved via simply having a conversation. I stand by my point but am not afraid to have that point challenged.

5951447
Well, for one, you're quoting a two-year-old post about gray-A's, which straddle the lines between sexuality and asexuality. For another, many asexuals deal with a different, less flamboyant, but still exclusionary ridicule for their sexuality just like the LGBT community does. Some have to deal with the dismissive "you haven't found the right person yet" or friends and family trying to hook them up. Some are just looked down upon or even told they're broken inside. Don't those sound like things at least the L, G, and B of the community could relate to? The sense of community we have together is in part to help each of us realize that there's nothing wrong with embracing your sexuality, even if your sexuality is none at all.

5951559 It has nothing to do with what we can relate to. Blacks are still marginalized in parts of America, Whites are treated like shit in areas of South Africa, Muslims and Jews still discriminated against each other. So by your logic they should be part of the group as well. The LGBT is to help people that are discriminated against for their sexuality or gender. Their are groups for people that are marginalized by racists. And groups for people that are marginalized because of their religion. We have a group for people that are marginalized because of their gender and sexuality. A low hormone count does not meet either of those criteria.

"you haven't found the right person yet" or friends and family trying to hook them up. Some are just looked down upon or even told they're broken inside. "

A low hormone count has never resulted in anything more than at most schoolyard bullying or maybe strange looks from there parents. Also Asexual is not a sexuality. It is a freak accident with nature where the body did not produce enough hormones which results in the person not being very interested in sex or not wanting sex full stop. Regardless if they face "similar" problems to the LGBT they are not LGBT. LGBT as a movement is to help lesbians, gays, bisexual and transgender people. It is not to help everyone that might have problems. I know LGBT is more than happy to partner with other groups as we saw with the BLM which sadly went tits up in the end. But if we keep adding letters and keeping adding more and more all we are doing is diluting what we can do to help. Instead of focusing on helping transgender people who are still years behind the rest of the LGB in regards to rights. We would instead have every group fighting over which group should have priority.

Every time a group gets too big and has too many branches we see this happen. In fighting destroys the group. Look at Atheism plus, look at modern feminism, hell even the MGTOW is riddled with in fighting. Because rather than everyone unifying under one banner. Everyone tries to split up. So you have groups that think black lesbians or black gays should have their own letters on the LGBT, you have people that think the letter placement is problematic and should have queer or trans at the front because they are the most oppressed.

I have been in several LGBT groups before even fim was created and what happened was people ended up eating each other because of this kind of thinking. By all means asexual's should be considered allies friends. But they do not face the overall struggle that the LGBT members do. may good strike me down if this ever comes true. But I have never in my life heard of an Asexual being turned down for a job. Christ they would get preference. A person that won't take off time to start a family, fuck a college and won't take time off to start a family is a more sound investment for an employee than someone who is not.

To sum it all up. I am not saying that Asexuals will not encounter problems from people that are maybe unfamiliar with the term. But it is comparing apples to oranges when it comes to them and lets say transgender people. Put bluntly Transgender people need the LGBT Asexuals in my opinion are not a marginalized group.

And asexuality is not a sexuality. It is a lack of sexuality which was kind of my point.