So I've had this really extended Twidash idea for awhile now, which basically amounts to Twilight and Rainbow Dash going on one last adventure while Rainbow is on her deathbed.

I know the ending and the beginning already, and I did plan on having this easily exceed 50k words when its all set and done.

My question is... how do you write a story this long? Planning out things has never been a strong suit of mine, and in fact, I have never done much of any planning in any stories I've written here (exception being Journey to the Center of the Rainbow with the planning of each color).

I'll take any help here

3296416

Part of me wants to write a fic that reaches 100k, as I love epic adventures, and romances with a slow-burn. Most of the rest of me, however, knows that writing a story at that length, for the sake of being that length, is setting myself up for a bunch of filler and useless crap.

I've got three main projects going, with the intention of them being novel-length. With my longest one (a 54k TwiLuna adventure) I actually haven't planned things as obsessively as I have with other novel attempts.

I had an outline, but it was incredibly basic, simple enough to keep in my head, even. I knew I how it began, what the main conflicts were going to be, and how I wanted it to end. With that, I just started writing.

I've taken an extended break to do other things, but when I was still writing it, I'd try to devote time every day towards writing, running a marathon against my own attention-span. Sometimes I would write 1500 words, sometimes I would only write a hundred.

For this fic, I've murdered my inner-editor, and have permitted myself to write like a third-grader. I'll cross the revision-bridge when I get to it. For now, I keeping up the momentum and the ideas flowing is important. I'm finding that as I write, I keep coming up with ideas. My outline is still simple, but it's grown while I've written.

With the way I'm writing, subplots and themes pop in and out of existence. I don't entirely know what I'm doing . . . yet, but I will. As the fic mutates and evolves of it's own volition, Im going to have to go back and revise for consistency and coherency as soon as I'm finished with the draft. I could never write this way if I were posting chapters as I wrote.

Rather than focusing on a word-count, I'm concerned with getting to point A, to point B. I didn't even separate the fic into chapters, until just recently. There are about fifteen, so far. I never really expected it to be this long at this point (I'm about 2/3rds of the way in) but I think the scope of the main conflicts, both the romance and the adventure, dictated that it would be so.

If a fic like this ended up being smaller than I expected, I would read over it to make sure that I got the pacing right, that I wasn't missing any sort of development somwhere--I've read stories that seem to skip right to the part where two characters are inexplicably in love with each other. I was worried about doing this, myself, but everything seems to check out.

Another thing that one might look out for, is a lack of description, or exposition wherever it's needed.

3296416
You do it by slicing. Even though I haven't written anything that long, I have been working on a story that is 20k in length and that just covers the events of two days.

So what is slicing? Thats taking when you insert an event between two other events (approximately at the 50% time between these events) and you keep going until you have enough events to cover the time you want to cover.

[beginning] | [end]
[beginning] | [Event_1] | [end]
[beginning] | [Event_2] | [Event_1] | [end]
[beginning] | [Event_2] | [Event_1] | [Event_3] | [end]
[beginning] | [Event_4] | [Event_2] | [Event_1] | [Event_3] | [end]
[beginning] | [Event_4a] | [Event_4b] | [Event_2] | [Event_1] | [Event_3] | [end]

As you can see, your story will grow as you lay out key events. And it's none linear too. 4a and 4b are basically an expended event that got expanded because there was more to tell.

This pattern also works well for other things. It might be hard to pick up on but the pattern used here is similar in design to a binary search tree (for the CS majors out there).

3296720

until you have enough events to cover the time you want to cover.

I'm not familiar with your method, in fact, I'm probably misinterpreting your entire post, so I can't say anything for, or against it. However, writing 'enough' events sounds eerily familiar to something I used to do, and even if this isn't what you meant, it's something that I want to address anyway.

When I first started to attempt to write novels, I did so with the assumption that I couldn't write anything novel-length without adding scene after scene after scene. I would create an outline--which is normally a good thing, but then I would pile on as much events as I possibly could, just because I wasn't sure that I had enough to reach a particular word-count.

I realize that you could have also meant, 'enough events to logically go from one main plot point, to another'. If I'm going to write a scene, and keep it, then it has to be important for the development of the characters, or the plot. Purposely finding ways to meander, is just going to bore readers. I wouldn't write to fit a specific time-frame either. Not every day, or even every month is going to be important enough to tell, and sometimes, a single day could span multiple chapters.

Really though, we may only differ in the method in which we arrive at the same result. Things happen in-between the main plot-points that I set down, but I don't plan them, they happen as a result of me trying to get to the next plot-point.

Overall, I'd have to strongly recommend ignoring word-count. The kind of story that you're telling should dictate the size of the fic. If it's too long, or too short, then that will come out in the pacing.

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3296720
Just don't do what I did. I'm still in the middle of writing my first story, and it's at about 39k if memory serves. It's terrible, and I don't understand why anyone likes it...

...Bassie, am I doing my job right? I don't know how to admin.

3296825

Just don't do what I did.

Which is?

It's kind of hard to avoid a pitfall, if we don't know what that pitfall is.

Have you gotten responses telling you that it's awful, or is this your own observation? If so, why is it awful? What is it about the fic that you don't like? I'm not one to believe that something can't be fixed, if the problem is identified.

I've written other things, but my first fanfic was a Zero no Tsukaima fic that I ended up putting on hiatus after 25k and three chapters. I put on the breaks due to not being able to keep up with an update schedule, and after realizing that I didn't have things worked out as much a I thought I did.

The problem? I shouldn't post chapters until I have a finished product. Revising the chapters as I write, doesn't cut it with me. I need to edit the story as a whole.

A little more research on war and politic during the renaissance era couldn't hurt either.

3296416
I hear that it helps to start with the end and work your way backwards to find out how the characters got to that point. When I wrote 'Miss Sparkle', which ended up clocking in at just over 68k words, I had a vague outline that I followed to a point but I adapted the story after I finished each chapter; that way events flowed more naturally. Your beginning and your ending are good starting points, but don't be afraid to throw them out if it'll make the story better.
Slicing seems like it could go either way: it could help events flow more naturally, but if you're not careful it could result in a lot of filler. As for the other, I also started out writing 'Miss Sparkle' as a whole before separating it into chapters. In fact, the first chapter I posted was only meant to be a teaser for the rest of the story before I realized how big it was getting!
I suppose my only advice for now is to write what happens naturally, and to make sure you don't force the story to meet your goals. If the adventure is eventful enough you'll meet your goals easily; if not, at least you'll still have written some quality Twidash.

My question is... how do you write a story this long?

I'm not really sure. I just kind of DID it.

3296825

am I doing my job right? I don't know how to admin.

Yes. You're doing fine.

3296831 Read it and you'll see. Your eyes will burn from the first chapter paragraph sentence.
It was my own observation. After reading both Surry's and Bassie's works, I felt... inferior, to say the least. After re-reading some of the stuff I wrote for my story, I actually saw how bad it was, but decided to keep it as a reminder that I can improve.
Reading the first chapter and then the latest, it's pretty obvious that I've improved...
...but it still sucks.

3297990 Hey, that's what I love about your story. It may not be a huge masterpiece, but it is a source of inspiration for me. I remember facehoofing during one of your earliest chapters, the one where Rainbow saw what she thought was Ditzy and the Doctor kissing. It was so amateurish that I couldn't help but laugh at it, and yet, I still loved reading it. Now, I am pretty close to comparing your stories later chapters to those of TDF's in TiM. It's so inspiring that it's actually part of what drives me to write my own story. I'm only in the first chapter still, and I'm moving very slowly, but I'm still writing.

3298008 Yeah, that moment was intended to just be for the lolz. Looking back, I honestly don't know why I even mentioned it. Maybe I'll change that when I rewrite it. Maybe it won't suck as much.
...But it will STILL suck.

3298036 I say keep it. As a novelty. Something to look back on and laugh at. I've heard of writers getting rid of their earliest work under the mindset that, since they've grown and are much better, they no longer need the work from when they weren't a strong writer. But later on, they'd look back and wish that they'd kept it. It'd be like throwing away or rewriting your childhood.

3298045 What annoys me about doing that is, someone will read the first chapter and dislike, never to set eyes on it gain or even give the other chapters a chance.

3298053 That's a valid point. I guess all comes down to who you want to appease with the early stories. Do you want it to be memorable to you and inspiring to those who chose to read on, showing your growth? Or do you want it to be a story worthy from the get go of more readers, at least in their opinions?

3297990

If the first paragraph, or the first sentence isn't too your liking, then that suggests that it's just a simply matter of editing for grammar and awkward phrasing. That's small potatoes in my eyes. 90% of everything is shit, 99% of fanfiction is shit, and all first-drafts are shit. No exceptions. (Okay, maybe there are a few exceptions, but those writers are freaks of nature who should donate their brains to science on death.)

Comparing yourself to other writers probably isn't always a great idea. Different people have different styles, and one does not have to be the best writer, for their writing to be worth reading. I occasionally find myself floored by prose writers who double as poets, or who are otherwise exceptional when it comes to aesthetically-pleasing writing, but that's not the kind of writer that I am.

I aim to tell a story, with writing that isn't intrusive, or doesn't otherwise make the writer's eyes bleed. I look over and revise my work obsessively, but I'm not looking for ways to make my writing 'on par with that really poetic writer who has a large vocabulary'. I'm looking for grammatical errors, awkward phrasing, or things that would make the reader stop on a single sentence. In short, I want the words to convey their point while still remaining invisible.

I've only read the first paragraph, and it was the third sentence, not the first, that caught my attention. I think 'snoring softly' should either be omitted, or re-worked into the sentence. I also thought that the tidbit of information about Scootoloo being Rainbow's adoptive daughter stuck out, and doesn't actually need to be there. You can let reader's wonder about things in the first few paragraphs; I have a feeling that something like that i going to be made obvious, soon enough, or that a bit of exposition would be more appropriate elsewhere.

I might have revised the sentence to something like this:

"The only thing stopping her from literally screaming at herself was snoring softly in the other room."

I also noticed that you have Dash's thoughts in bold. I'm all for experimenting and bucking conventions in fanfiction, but I don't think it pans out here. With the way you do thoughts, I think it would be more appropriate to use italics instead. Some would vehemently argue that this is 'wrong', but it's becoming more and more conventional.

Personally, I pass thoughts into the narrative. I use a subjective narrative voice to tell the reader what the character is thinking, but to each their own.

In any case, we're really only discussing how words are used, which I don't think really pertains to this topic. You've basically come into the thread and have told to op to "not write like I did," which has nothing to do with writing a novel-length fic . . . unless you are also criticizing your own pacing and consistency, or something along those lines. Problems with writing longer fic than one is used to, are normally going to come in the form of a story falling apart mid-way through, which isn't something that's going to be readily obvious in the first paragraph, or even in the first few chapters.

Requiring ourselves to produce an absolute, literary masterpiece is simply setting ourselves for not writing anything at all. There's a quote on a forumgoer's profile that especially sticks out for me:

Ever tried? Ever failed? No matter! Try again, fail again. Fail better.

Samuel Becket.

Instead of telling the op that you're embarrassed by your own writing (here's a little secret . . . we all are!), and that they should avoid that, you should be telling them that they should write, regardless of awful they think their writing is.

3297990 Quit putting yourself down.

3298140 This is why I followed you.

3298245

Quit putting yourself down.

You managed to say what I was thinking, in far less words.

3298258 It's something I've learned through my stories. Sometimes, less is more.

3296559 I've started a simple outline for the first few chapters so far, but not much more than that. The idea of writing without worrying about editing is something I considered, but I don't think I'd be comfortable writing like that.

Writing everything as one giant chapter and splitting it up is an idea though.

3296720 Interesting, never saw a technique like that before.

3296825 Hey now don't put yourself down like that. Take pride in your writing, even if you do think you can do better. You managed to put together a 40K word story and counting which over 200 people seemed to enjoy. That says something doesn't it?

3297435 Yeah I know my beginning and ending, its the middle that is the challenge. I should just sit one day and brainstorm a bunch of ideas on what I want their journey to be like.

The key here is that it will only be Twi and Rainbow on this adventure. At this time, the only constant I know is that throughout the story, you're going to watch Rainbow slowly break down physically (bless my heart as I write this).

3299139

The idea of writing without worrying about editing is something I considered, but I don't think I'd be comfortable writing like that.

I strongly recommend trying. It's difficult enough trying to pull our thoughts out of our heads. killing one's inner editor is advice that I've heard from countless 'pantsers' and 'planners' alike. You can always go back and fix sloppy writing. I didn't believe this at first, myself, but I seem to always prevail when it comes to turning childish prose into something that's readable.

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3299139

I'd like to back up what DH7 said. I am currently somewhere halfway between pantser and planner. I'm finding that I like the planning aspect, because it lets me get the entire story out and look at it in essentially summary form and see how it all works together. If the pieces seem to fit, I start filling in the spaces between the pieces.

Of course, a lot of my planning lately has been focused on characterization, histories, and the like, but there is a small thing that I'm using to plan out the very basics of my planned stories now. Five items.

Opening
First Plot Point - This is where the antagonizing force takes over and pushes the characters hard enough that all they can do is react.
Midpoint Shift - This is where the characters reach a turning point in their journey and stop reacting and start to actively push back against the antagonizing force. Not always directly.
Second Plot Point - This is the final turning point of the story, when the final twist, bit of exposition, bit of story, falls into place. The race is now on for the final confrontation. The protagonists are at their strongest. The antagonizing force is also at its strongest.
Ending - The final showdown.

Bear in mind this is an overly dramatic description of a simple four act structure. The acts fit neatly in between each of the five points. it's similar to the three act structure, but breaks the middle second act into two parts - the struggle and reaction, and then the fight back.

For a sad fic where the endpoint is death, I think that this would be Twilight's struggle to accept Rainbow's impending doom. Whether she fails (or succeeds,) and follows Rainbow, or succeeds and is able to continue living is what I see as her dilemma. Then there's her life after Rainbow. Will she let the death haunt her? Or will she find solace in the company of her friends, letting them try to fill the hole in her heart? Or will she become more reckless, going off on dangerous adventures and trying to find her doom so she can reunite with the lost love? Or will it be quiet, with some pills and a stiff drink before the long sleep?

Or is there a happier ending? Does the adventure lead to a cure of some sort? I think I'll believe that... I need a happy.

3299493

I can't argue with your four-part plot, but it's alien to me. I'm so used to three parts, if one is so inclined to be so particular on structure.In my mind, three-part plots are essential to something like an MLP episode, but fly out the window when it comes to novel-length works, Then again, the parts of a story that I'm used to from highscool, happen to be introcuctiion, rising action, climax, and conclusion, which is in four parts.

Regardless of the structure you use, I think it's important to keep from doing something like writing multiple climaxes. I can't think of a story that does this, off-hand, but I remember a Zone of the Enders 2 trailer that lasted longer than it's welcome. Just when you think its finished, it keeps on, an then again, and again.

3296825 You're doing just fine as an admin, Sweetie.

As for your story, it doesn't suck. It's true, your grammar and flow in the beginning left a lot to be desired, but your story was so cryptic and captivating, that it kept us reading. In time, as your confidence and knowledge grew, your writing style improved as well. It's still improving, but we all are improving. Honestly, it's amazing how much you improved in that one story, and it's not even complete. It took me several stories to get to the level you're at. I must say, I'm a bit envious of just how quickly you've grown as an author. College writing classes most likely help with that as well, but it's still exponentially faster than either Surry or I am growing. Your story has always been excellent. It was the execution of the idea that needed help. All that means is you're in the same boat I am. I intend, when I finish the third one, to go back and do massive rewrites of the first two Twixie stories I wrote. You could do that as well for your first chapters. Do not belittle your story. It's wonderful.