For starters, I wanted to say this isn't meant as an attack on any recent comments that have been left on the AAG comment page, so nobody freak out over this.

As countries go, unless it's in the US' national interest and depending on the administration and nation attacked, we either get involved politically or militarily. It is clear that Equestria is under assault by a "foreign power", but here's the rub:

- It is clear that Equestria (and possibly other AE nations) have been keeping the existence of changelings secret from the HE nations (in Equestria's case, it's because Celestia doesn't want to cause undue panic for humanity, as changelings might find humans, with their stronger emotions, to be a preferred foodsource.)
- It is also doubtless that the HE nations, through HUMINT (does that term still apply in a post-human world?), SIGINT, IMINT and MASINT, are likely aware of the changelings (hell,humanity might even be trying to develop MYSTINT (mystical intelligence).)
- Would the changelings, given that they have a political structure, be considered a nation or a terrorist organization, as they have no firm home?

And assuming that humanity did get involved (remember that right now, only Iran is suspected of military action against Equestria, and even that can be considered plausible deniability attributed to rogue actors)
- Would the changeling issue be solved via "liquidation" (genocide) or forced conversion (if possible) to flutterdom (and would that still be considered genocide for changelings?)
- As part of Article 5 of the NATO charter, NATO nations could get involved in Equestria (as they did in the US in real life, post-9/11), but NATO nations have sat out conflicts before (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya). What would be the political fallout, if any?
- Hell, given that the US has sometimes ignored conflicts (Rwanda is a big one), what would the results be there?

Interested to know your thoughts.

For the record, I don't think it's possible for Equestria to keep the changelings secret from HE governments, mostly because of their civilians. Everyone in Equestria knows about the changelings, so once they move over to America or Britain they'll start talking and word will get around to the governments. In addition, humans living on AE would find out about this stuff and tell their relatives across the veil about them.

It's just not something that people would be able to keep a lid on.

3198209
Instead of HUMan INTelligence... INTelligence INTelligence? You have to admit, it's easy to remember.

FWIW (which isn't a lot), my gut feeling is the U.S.would offer drones for intelligence gathering, satellites if those would work (just opening a portal in space and pushing a satellite through would not work -- the hard part of orbiting something isn't getting it into space, but getting it up to the speed to stay there). I can think of a few ways that satellites might be able to be launched into AE orbit, but aside from one (maybe Luna could raise them ) won't go into it because off-topic. The U.S. might also offer advisors -- or "advisors." The U.K. might also help similarly. Other NATO nations? Food and fuel.

Assuming complete NATO victory, the changelings can be solved by de-porting with portals. Send them to another Earth. The humans that ate poor Toola Roola might even deserve it. Though it probably isn't fair to judge an entire planet by one population... That's assuming that the changelings don't have the magic oomph to open portals back, of course.

And now for all the unnecessary detail -- read if bored:

The U.S. pretty much sat out the Falklands War for a couple reasons -- by my admittedly limited understanding. The whole Monroe Doctrine (the western hemisphere belonging to the western hemisphere) had some influence, but, (again, according to what I understand, and I may well be wrong), both the U.S. And U.K. agreed that the Warsaw Pact had to see that the U.K. could do the job alone. Similarly, the world(s) may have to see that Equestria can do the job.

If not, that'd still be a handy excuse to offer. Also, I can't imagine the pentagon or other HE nations' equivalents pushing for involvement in a war with so many uncertainties. It would be a war very much unlike any fought in the history of HE. To people who like to plan everything out, I can see a lot of sleepless nights. Mid-21st-century ulcer medications would get quite the workout.

I imagine that U.S. public opinion would be "send humanitarian ('sapitarian'?) aid only, and make sure that all sides know our people are non-combatants." Which wouldn't be a logical reaction (I don't see changelings respecting the red cross as anything but another "all you can eat" sign), but whadya gonna do. I don't see other HE NATO nations' public opinion being any more hawkish, expect maybe some of the Eastern Europe members who used to be parts of the Warsaw Pact and had decades of experience under someone's thumb.

And that the enemy -- or at least one of the big enemies -- was a threat to HE that Equestria kept under wraps wouldn't make the governments or peoples more apt to spend blood and treasure stopping them.'

Even Article 5 wouldn't necessarily mean military assistance. It requires members to "assist the party or parties so attacked" and to take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force…." But if the U.S. deems food and clothing to be what's necessary, that may be all our little ponies get.

That said, logically, some people in HE NATO governments and military planning would realize how attractive we'd be to changelings, and official policy wouldn't always line up with what actually gets done. Some of their AE counterparts would also realize how bad it would be to allow changelings to feed and breed here.

And a few on AE might realize how attractive we'd be to the changelings and that, if the portals were closed after the changelings were convinced to invade HE, AE might be safer overall. Not that I'd Blueblood name names.

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3198342 Yeah, not telling the humans about the existence of changelings wasn't a very smart move on Celestia's part. You just can't have two different worlds interacting as much as they do without word getting out about their existence. I mean, there was a time that changelings attacked Canterlot during a royal wedding for Pete's sake! An event like that is huge and would be impossible for ponies to simply forget happened. Thus, it's inevitable that human dignitaries might meet up one day and go "Hey, so did you hear that Equestria's capital city was once attacked by an army of shape-shifting bug ponies during Princess Cadance's wedding? It was apparently a pretty big deal. Wonder why their government never mentioned it?" Yeah, it would have been better if Celestia had just told them that they existed rather than wait for them to find out on their own.

3198209 The issue of whether the US would get involved in Equestria's conflicts is a tough one. AAG seems to show that Equestria and the US are pretty tight. As a Canadian, I'd like to think that because of NATO you yanks would come to our defense if we ever got into serious trouble. Likewise, I'd hope that the good ol' US of A would do the same for Equestria (but thus far in the story this doesn't seem to be the case). Yeah, I know there are a lot of variables to consider including nobody really knowing who is actually attacking Equestria, but the principle stands.

As for what to do about the changeling problem assuming humans do get involved, I don't think there's really an easy answer to that. Changelings (or at the very least Chrysalis' hive) are clearly a dangerous threat that need to be dealt with no matter what. I suppose if conversion to flutters were possible, people would take that route but even that would create its own set of problems. AAG has already shown us that there are ponies who are extremely distrustful of the flutters and would take drastic actions against them. I don't imagine humans would be much better. Either way, it's going to be an 'ends justify the means' type of situation.

"It is an undeniable and may I say fundamental quality of man that when faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable."

If the ponies won't tell the humans surely the other races will. Celestia does not have control over them.

3198209
If I remember correctly, in AAG the Changelings are the dominant civilization on AE's South America, despite their civilization being a disparate complex of city-states, not unlike Ancient Greeks and pre-invasion Mayans.
Let me think about that, but I believe that, as it stands, Changelings will be largely exterminated. This comes from the fact that Changeling civilization is unknown to the world at large, and with the only known Changeling Queen treating individual changelings as worthless pawns, so will the enemy.
Considering that ponies (and NATO) already performed Scorched Earth against Phillidelphia, it will soon come to kill-on-sight rules of engagement against any changelings.

I know it can be surprising that 'the pinko Nacho' suggests a pro-militaristic response, but this has to do with the nature of the attack: this isn't cowboys exterminating Indians jut for defending their livelihood, but more like Europeans fighting against a cannibal version of Genguis Khan.

3199273

I am not going to argue with you and go off-topic again.

3199671
Sorry.

3199679
Dön't worry about it. I was young and passionate too, once.

3198494
possibly SAPINT (sapients intelligence), as INTINT might be abbreviated as INT2, which means something else entirely (intelligence neutralization and telecommunications transcription, aka Information Warfare.)

First off: sorry about any spelling-/grammar errors, English isn't my native language.

Well, as for a possible backlash against AE nations for not telling Humanity about the changelings, there should probably be some, but I'm not quite sure to which extent. But on the official/political level it shouldn't be too harsh. After all there is probably some intell Humanity has held back from the AE nations as well (glossed over/omittet some of the more unsavory parts of our history, or maybe there are some nukes pointed at the portals, just to be safe ofcourse, stuff like that)

About the question of what to do with the Changelings once the war is over. IIRC it was mentioned, as Chrysalis started her conquest of AE's South America, that there is at least one hive at the southern tip of the continent, that has entered a mutual beneficiant, symbiotic relationship with the local Pinguin population. So apparently Changelings can be good or at least not evil even without Pony intervention. The question is, does anybody on AE outside of the Changeling hives know about this? Also IIRC Chrysalis is the only Changeling Queen that has shown any agression towards any AE nation in recent history. At least I don't remember having read anything about any other agressive hives. Which, come to think of it, might also explain why nobody told humanity about the Changelings. The Wedding Invasion was a fluke. Something that Changelings normally just don't do. So after the hunt for Chrysalis and her hive the AE nations thought the whole agressive Changelings buiseness was finished and returned to their standard MO of ignoring the Changelings as long as they stay on their continent.

As for the possible human involvement in the war and it's political fallout:
First off if NATO does nothing, even when Equestria asks for help that'd put not only a strain on political relations between AE and HE, since the AE nations would then probably view Humans as unreliable allies. But it might also put a strain on NATO itself. No offens to any Americans or Britisch intended, but the Chrysalis/Nightmare Moon Situation is way bigger then 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan or the Falklands. Even if you'd fall for the Iran diversion you'd still have an enemy with a standing army that has proven to be a match for the equestriani armed forces, who is in possetion of a confirmed WMD (Nightmare Moon), has already devastated a major city (sure, the equestrian navy burned Fillydelphia to the ground, but the city was lost and gone before they did that) and has the clear and stated intend to destroy Equestria. If NATO sits this one out the individual NATO memberstates might ask themselves what the others would do for them if push comes to shove.

Now if NATO intervenes in this war there are still a lot of possible scenarions for the extent of their help and the political backlash produced by it. There are some steps between "We'll only send supplies." and "Here are a few divisions, just point them at the enemiy." For example NATO could also provide AWACS support, field hospitals, logistics, a small contingent of troops to look after the equestrian military bases while the equestrian army is out in the field and maybe even a kind of volunteer program like the american pilots that fought for the British in WWII before the Pearl Harbor attack. And also there is allways BlackOps.
As for the Backlash. On the HE side there will allwas be those who say Humans are not doing enough, those who support the war effort just as it is and those who say waging war on the changelings is capital E Evil. On the AE side anything short of frontline troops will give ammo to the Purehooves (Obviously those filthy humans want to thin out the ranks of our finest and bravest so that they'll have an easier time taking over.) but then again, those nutjobs would probably still find a way to put an anti-human spin on things even if all the fighting and dieing was done by humans.

3278307

those nutjobs would probably still find a way to put an anti-human spin on things even if all the fighting and dieing was done by humans.

"Watch those humans fight with their unpony brutality! Be afraid of the day when there are no changelings, because they could then just turn around and start hunting us!"

So apparently Changelings can be good or at least not evil even without Pony intervention.

If I remember correctly, all the hives being taken over by Chryssy were at peace with their surroundings. The only nut was Chryssy.

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If I remember correctly, all the hives being taken over by Chryssy were at peace with their surroundings. The only nut was Chryssy.

There were a couple of hives involved with some issues with ocelots, capuchin and some other nations of the sort, but for the most part, they lived in peace - one hive had even developed a cohabiting society with puffins.