Two of you might remember the little background story I thought up for Trixie's Shade Knight(placeholder). Well, I'm working on it right now but it got me thinking. Should I post it on my own account or should I publish it on the shared account?

Thoughts?

3327101 I think you can post it on your own account

3327453 Well, I guess I'll do that but before that, I like to hear your opinions on the story since it contains quite a bit of lore on the Vatican which I thought up. Here's the link by the way:

Her Silent Guardian

It's written in a purely narrative style because I wanted to follow the theme of the title, so there's not a single bit of dialogue in it.

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3328645 I am okay with you posting it from your account. A few lore questions:

I thought that all of the Vatican soldiers eventually become Shades and it's permanent, not just to fulfill some contract?

As in wasn't the Vatican mentality that they can not rest(pass to the afterlife) until all of the heretics are exterminated?

3327453 3329926 That's what Unholy's notes said. The ghosts remain bound to serve the Vatican until the contract is over or they die outside the range of a Spirit Guide.

Though I think the Vatican would have some soldiers who are so zealous that they've stayed on even after their contract has been completed, meaning there might be a number of Shades that have been fighting for centuries.

However, the thing I wanna discuss is the lore I built around Unholy's notes. The biggest one, the Eternal Legion. The ones I came up with were the 'Holy Orders' which are separate organizations with each one having specialties, such as the Order of the Dawn being a military academy for knights, who I consider as the commandos in Vatican Army.

The Order of Celestia's Light is pretty much a group dealing with any and all relating to their religion

There are other Orders but I only introduced these two so I can present the concept to you guys first before I go any further with my little project.

3329949 Okay, so that is cleared.

To be honest I like the way you've thought things up. I personally would really like to see the intnractions between the orders, more precicely how all other orders feel regarding the order that worships our beloved chaotic being~

3330002 I'm thinking of making the Cult of Chaos a sub order of the Order of Magi and the Order of Celestia's Light, because it's technically a religious cult while it's also a group of magic users that also double as executioners for the Order of Justiciars/Justice.

Which would bring the heads of these Orders into conflict should the cult cause chaos outside of their boundaries, which is a form of chaos in itself, so without even trying, Discord is trolling folks.

p.s: We'll need better names for these Orders if we plan on expanding on this idea.

3330015 Cult of Chaos? We could call it Ordo Ab Chao? (From Chaos comes Order)

Order of Magi? We gettin' Jewish here XD and I think it would be Order of THE Magi. So it's not Order of Wise but instead Order of the Wise. (In direct translation.)

But in all seriousness, if we are going to have the Shade Knight have such a backstory, he better be REAL important in the main story.

3330042 3330015 Actually we still haven't decided what to do with him.
I'm sort of voting for him getting killed while protecting Trixie when the mercenaries on the station go after the guys who brought the Khalai to them.
From chaos comes order? Doesn't really sound like something Discord would approve. Still sounds good though.

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3330042 The Shade Knight is essentially Trixie's dad who is trying to keep his last promise to his wife: Keep their daughter safe. So he's not important to the story per say, but every character has their story, I just thought I could showcase his story in a spinoff to Unholy's original.

As for his final fate, his armor could get damaged during the assault at the very least, not enough to finally send him to get his soul released into the afterlife, but enough to render him useless and unable to rescue his daughter when the CMC arrive at the platform.

Or if we go with Kriss' idea and destroy his armor, his soul could get sucked into a fragment of a nexus gem, so we can have a possible return later on in the sequel or something. I think we killed off enough side story Main Characters already anyways

Either way, Trixie would hightail it out of the orbital platform after she helps the CMC with their situation, Gilda's gonna be ticked off at both her and the CMC.

As for the name of the Order, those can be changed later. What I really want to flesh out is their culture and ruling structure along with other stuff like that.

There's already an order of knights/warriors and an order of priests, an order of law keepers plus an unnamed order of mages but what else should we add to it. Like should there be others for different roles like an order for merchants and engineers?

And as for their leader(s) should there be only one leader, namely the archmage? or a council made of the Order's leaderships or have both of those ideas mixed into one.

Granted, I don't think I'll feature those in the side story, but it never hurts to add to the lore Unholy created for lovers of lore like me

3330136 We could make the hierarchy like the Roman Catholics (Pope, Cardinal, etc). So an Archmage with an advisory of "Cardinals" who control "bishops" and so on.

3330096 Well, it means that one must have chaos to have order. So the Order of Chaos is the chaos that is required for progress. Ya feel me?

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3330042 Personally I'd rather go with the council idea. As for who the council consists of, I suggest the general populace electing members from themselves, to avoid giving single institutions too much power. But along with that we can also include a single individual, namely the Archmage, who is the actual boss of the Vatican. And the true purpouse of the elcted council is to keep the general populace happy that they "have a say in how the Vatican is ran".
As a profecional anarchistic atheist and free thinker you can say that I know a thing or two about religious leaders keeping their livestock under submission.

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Okay, Archmage is the top most leader of the Vatican with the Heads of the main Holy Orders as his council, who in turn, control their own Orders and have the authority to control or at least influence other lower-tiered Orders like the Order of Chaos which is connected to more than one Order due to their unique status. The heads of the Orders could be voted to their position by the general populace or the members of the Order itself.

Though what would the hierarchy be like for the different Orders? The only one I got figured out is the Military Order, or The Order of the Dawn(Probably needs a better name) since it's the most straightforward one. Tell me what you think:.

The Order is more or less a military organization meaning that anything that has to do with the military is under their control or influence. They probably have close ties to the Order of Justice(placeholder name) since they provide the troops to maintain the law and keep the peace.

The same can't be said for the Mage Order. Even though its the mages' magic that enchants their comparatively archaic weapons to be a match to the modern ones utilized by other factions, but the fact that a part of the mage order creates the Shade Knights makes the Order of the Dawn wary of the mages. However, since the Eternal Legion is a key part of their war against the Khalai, they put up with them.

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3330148 Not quite. I do get the idea of balance(you must have order, as well as chaos) but as a supporter or chaos I just want to wreck balance.
3330203 Well how does having a single rank system for all orders? The system is the same, but acts differently, depending on which order it is for. Here's my idea for the system.

Arbiter - highest tier, basically is chosen as the best representative (symbol) of what said order stands for.

Montenal - three individuals who rank wise come after the Arbiter, serving as his "branches" aka strings that make ties with other orders' Montenals, thus we have the tree which the orders form supporting itself.

Pilgrim - while Montenals make sure to keep the ties inside of the Vatican, each of them teaches up to (decide number) Pilgrims. Their job is to create ties outside of the Vatican, said ties depending on which order they come from. Rank wise they to be like 4-5 in row. If a Pilgrim has the "data" for it, his Montenal may suggest him as a candidate for an Arbiter. Each Montenal may present one Pilgrim for the role when the Arbiter dies(or we have a time period on which they are replaced) and the rest of the order votes on who becomes Arbiter. The reason why Pilgrims are so low in tier is so that they learn humility(apply to pony) and are not blinded by power both early on in their training and when/if they are elected for Arbiter.

Warden Prefect - Basically the guy in charge of the order's forces. He is appointed by the Arbiter, rank wise comes after the Montenals, but they do not have a (direct) say in who is to be a Warden Prefect, or how he should do his duty.

Aaaand I have no idea how the lower ranks should go.

Do you guys approve of this order rank-list?

3330152 As a Christian and a son of a former Catholic, I also know a thing or two about religious leaders.
3330203 How about we name the Order of the Dawn, Sun's Peacekeepers or Warriors of Sunlight? (Praise the Sun!) or you know, keep "Order" in there somewhere XD
Order of Justice = Way/Order of Themis (Lady Justice)

(I have to think more on this)

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You guys seem to have this under control so I will just sitt in the background and watch you

3330231 This could work.

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3330259 I'm liking the hierarchy system you've set up for the Orders, though I think there might be ranks found only in an order, like the Squires in the Knight Order. Also, what is a Montenal?

Warriors of Sunlight...is that a Dark Souls reference? Never played it before

Anyways, I tried keeping with the theme of Celestia since they pretty much worship her as their goddess and all.I guess having 'Order' in their names sounds kind of restricting so we'll keep working on that.

Remember, the Umojans may have adapted Terran Tech to their magic, but they're still Equestrians at heart, so The Holy Order of Themis ain't gonna cut it.

Hmm, how about simplifying the names like The Order of the Sword for the Knights, Order of the Sun(Celestia's Light) and so on so forth? Keeps things nice and tidy.

Until we flesh this out, I'll keep the story unpublished to maintain lore canon.

3331369 Darnit! My reference was spotted!
Darnit! My mythological knowledge is useless here! Though we could call the some elite warriors "Furies" maybe?
If we have Squires, we can have Pages! (no idea what a Montenal is)

Celestia = Goddess, ok, what would followers of her believe in? Harmony, Order, Sun, Peace....The Umojans don't seem to display any of that...well except Order...

Harmony's Crusaders. That's the best I can come up with...

darnit...

3330238 Out of pure scientific curiousity, may I ask why formal?
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3331369 Montenal is a fancy word that sounds all official and important and stuff, which I made up last night, because I was too lazy to look for a fitting word to put there.

Okay, every order along with this system can have special ranks that apply souly to it. My idea being just the base.

How about the Legion of Reckoning for the knight order?
Reason: They bring the reckoning to the heretics, and 80% of the places I have seen the hour of reckoning is assosiated with the morning/rise of the sun over darkness/dawn.

3331516 Furies? Have you sir been reading a fantasy series that has Codex in its name, and is basicaly a fanfic mixing the roman legions and pokemon which the author wrote as a challenge?

3331516 Don't worry about, we can still put your knowledge on mythology to the Dominion and the Consortium since they've adopted Terran culture so readily, though it would mostly apply the their military and associated hardware.

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Sounds good, but that would probably be for a sub division of the military, not the Order as a whole. I imagine that these 'Legions' would be kind of like platoons of infantry or legionnaires, each Legion having a unique role in the Holy Navy.
Let's take the Eternal Legion for example, their role is to clear a path for the main invasion force while maintaining the driving force of their push into Khalai territory.

The Legion of Reckoning sounds like they would probably be an occupation force for captured worlds. Their role would probably be mopping up whatever resistance is left and secure the world for the Vatican.

As for the names, until we can figure out suitable ones, I'm ripping off Fallout 3 and using these as placeholder names:
Knight Order: Order of the Sword/Blade
Scribes/Historians/Record Keepers: Order of the Quill
Mage Order: Order of the Arcane/Magi
Church: Order of Celestia's Light(can't think of anything else for this one)
Merchants/Armorers/Craftsman(basically tech developers): Order of...okay, I got nothing

3332089 The sun's wrath! - knights

3332126 Sounds like a battlecry, and a cool one at that. "Face the wrath of sun, heretics!" or "Tremble in fear abominations! For the sun's wrath is upon you!"

3332156 For some reason I am comming up with names for just the knight order. ;w;

Here's another - The Sun's/Celestia's rays

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How about The Celestial order

3332374 For which group? The knights? The Church? or The mages?
3332341 Either way, keep going, I want to try and come up with a decent background lore for the New Canterlot Vatican's history.

Will post a draft here when I'm done

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3332380 The Harbingers of Light! Dk where it would fit, but sounds cool, so have it.

3331975 NO! Furies are female spirits of vengeance sent out by the Greek gods to dish out justice to those who have done major wrong like patricide, rape, etc. When they mean "justice" they mean torturing the offender to death.

Why so formal? idk

Finally someone uses the word harbingers. Such a cool word.

May the power of Celestia compel you!!!

3332496 Oh. Because in that fantasy series Furies are elementals which can be controlled by certain people with powers(there's the pokemon aspect) to control them. Ironically enough, the main character has NO powers what so ever!

Sorry, I used the wrong word. I meant to ask, why did you say one of your parents was a "former"(haha, got it right this time) catholic?

3332539 Well, my mother grew up a catholic. (My grandparents are still catholic) My father is south baptist (I think, if you ask him, he will say he's Christian, he doesn't like all these "divisions" of Christians) My mother wanted to be more involved in her spiritual life, which catholics aren't known for. So she switched to my father's views. Her parents don't care. They say we believe in the same Christ, so that's that. I, myself, have nothing against catholics. Though, the guys in Rome can get a little too greedy sometimes.

3332579 Oh well, they haven't turned to the glory of science and Selfism, but still better than Catholic.

Roman religious leaders "A LITTLE" greedy? That's "A" way of putting it.

3332588 I don't like to get off topic, but why do atheist think that science does anything to disprove a God or that Christians abhor it? The more that is discovered through science only helps the reasoning that this world was designed instead of coming by chance. Christians don't hate science, in fact they love it. Many scientists (Isaac Newton for example) studied science for God instead of himself. It helps us learn what is around us. So Christianity goes hand-in-hand with science. History says so.

And screw Selfism. What this world needs is Selflessism.
One can have Self-esteem, but they really need Selfless-esteem. (And so do the Roman leaders)

We ALL must be selfless, atheist, Christian, or not.
Also, let's not get into an argument. We're here for Starcraft pony fan-fiction. Not religious debates. But I will tell you, I rather die believing and find out that there is no God, then die unbelieving and find out that there is a God.

3332761 Okay, okay. Just gonna throw my last argument and I'll be done with it. (BTW this conversation amuses me greatly! )

If we're talking history, try saying anything modern science has proven to anyone from the middle ages and the early renesanse and expect a positive and understanding reaction.

Actually there isn't a religion called Selfism...yet, I'm it's founder. And it's not what you think. It's about following real(as in proven of existence) things. It worships two dieties(the only real ones): Death and myself. Where myself stands for everyone being his or her own god, cause you exist, and not some invisible man in the sky who knows everything(bible proven that's not true), is everywhere, has made everything and loves us all(the current state of the world doesn't really speak in favor of that statement). Still working on the rules and stuff, but I am accepting followers.

Okay, got my opinion and shameless advertisement out of my system, now...BACK TO STARCRAFT AND PONIES!!!

So.....uh.....what has been the progress Nony?

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3332380 Yes bud, I'm really hyped to see how the story is comming along.

Also a question - which are we going to have up first - the side story, or chapter 59?
Speaking of, Gape would you kindly give it a look(unless you already have) and inform us if you think the chapter is good for posting?

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Er...hehe, I've been so caught up with creating the background lore for the Vatican that I barely touched the segment I had planned chapter 61, half of which, is pretty much a continuation of Lyra's segment. Here's a link to what I've got in case you're curious: New Canterlot Vatican

I've tried to replicate the way Unholy wrote the lore while trying to work with the few bits and pieces of the Vatican mentioned and filling in the holes with placeholder ideas. Most of it is just bits and pieces of segments that I thought we could expand or alter during discussions, but I think I'll leave it for now and actually work on the story.

Chapter 59 will go up first, followed by 60, since the Shade Knight(so are we going with this name,then?) make its debut in that chapter, followed by the side story, which will need some polishing when I continue it.

Yeah Gape, you've probably taken a look at chapter 59, what do you think of it? Also, feel free to come up with a better title than the one I put there as a placeholder.

p.s: Please reply in either Plot connections or Random thoughts, I want to at least keep the discussions on this thread focused mainly on the Side Stories, if possible

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Proofread and ready for sending! (Though I couldn't come up with a title except "two tickets to paradise" that's too corny )

3339469 Right you are good sir.
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3338052 I'll publish it as I make chapter 61.

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I just want to give you guys a head's up.

I will be gone this Sunday to late Thursday. I am not sure if I will be able to access a computer. So I will obviously not be able to proofread any chapters until then. I do not mind you guys publishing them without me.

And if you're wondering why? It's for my future career in engineering!

3339938 Worry not. I don't think that we'll be done with the next chapter by then.
Good luck on your quest sir and safe travels!

3340003 Thanks bro!

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3340003 Kriss is right, unless a writing bug hits us, I think everything will mostly remain the same when you return.

Either way, best of luck in your future career and all the other stuff Kriss said

3339938 The best of luck to you

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3344183 Welp, my story sidestory didn't make it past moderation, apparently it wasn't pony enough for the mods. Guess I'll take some time off to work on it since the main story is in Kriss' capable hands at the moment.

3659142 Huh, I forgot which sidestory that was supposed to be. Not pony enough? Huh, I think my story is hardly pony :P

3659232 I don't blame ya since it's been ages since I talked about it. It's the one about Shade Knight's backstory. I tried to submit it but the mod said it wasn't related enough to Friendship is Magic.

I guess yours passed since it features characters from the series itself, even if they aren't pony while mine only features one obscure background pony while the identity of Shade Knight remains hidden.

3659287 Ah yeah....the Shade Knight.

Well maybe if you put enough "Celestia is God!" in there it will work. I mean, since it's the Umojans, maybe the story could more focus on their backstory than the Shade Knight's?

3659464 Actually, that whole Celestia is their goddess bit is all over the place. The story is also a way for us to explore the culture of the Umojan Vatican. Here's the link to the chapter. I've edited it a little bit since you guys last saw it. There's a bit that's in the middle of editing so don't mind that.

The password is the same one we use for the main account.

3659488 I like the changes and I honestly have no idea why the mod would say this has nothing to do with FIM. Considering those chapters about the diferent factions Unholy put in a sidestory. There was way less relatedness to FIM there than in your sidestory yet it got published. Hell even my side stories had less about FIM in them and got published.