Story is here.

Vazak posted in the quorum thread asking for feedback, so I figured I'd start a thread here.

My thoughts: I'm opposed to canonizing it. More details below.

First, on a surface level, the story has a lot of grammatical problems that make it really hard to read (at least for me). Vazak has problems with run-on sentences that go on forever and exhaust the eye. From the first chapter:

Incidentally, Nightshine had also stepped toward the hole that the two had already been crowding near only for the guards to inevitably tripped over one another (as the laws of comedy could tell any creature), Shadowlane fell first with Nightshine so close behind that Shadowlane's one attempt at flying to failed instead smashing right into her and causing wing lock, as they tumbled to their possible dooms.

Seeming to hope that a change in topic would save him explaining himself, the so far unnamed stallion spoke again, “So how are we meant to get out of here; flying us out one by one?” he said, a small amount of nervousness entering his voice as his eye’s flicked around trying to observe the mostly dark cave they had landed in, only illuminated by Nightshine's spell.

A small part of Shadowlane wanted to tease him, but well she just didn't have the heart, so the guard instead fluttered over to her fellows side and patted him on the back encouragingly, “Ahh, you’d have made an awesome Red Magician. [sic]” she encouraged, not taking her eyes off the great tablet.

There's also comma issues. Not only are commas frequently missing, but he also has parts with a bunch of very short clauses concatenated together with commas. These make the writing seem somehow both drawn-out and very choppy. There are also missing words, missing apostrophes, typos (he uses 'out cropping' instead of 'outcropping' a lot) and so forth. The story definitely needs a copy editor.

Second, there are continuity issues. Gabel shouldn't be there, because RDD vetoed him from Team Tyrant. Kindle shouldn't be there, because based on his developed character, he has no reason to be here--he should be recruiting, not dungeon crawling. The stated reasons Luna can't help out (griffins don't want her on the border) don't work where the story is set (Fisher's province, which isn't that close to the griffin border). Cheerilee, not being Pinkie Pie, shouldn't be able to turn a bunch of vines into a glider. (If it was materials that were at least glider-like, like gigantic leafy plants, maybe, but vines--especially those thick and heavy enough to support Cheerilee's weight--don't fit at all). Some of these problems are minor (the location can just be moved to the DMZ between griffins and ponies), but some are more important (half of Team Tyrant shouldn't be there) and will be harder to fix.

Third, I feel this story is missing out on a lot of the point of its premise. What we know about Red Magician is that he was a spectacular magician, and he used his magic to do a lot of things (and was convinced he could use his magic to do things better than experts in those things). If this is his dungeon, magic should be a big part of the adventure -- what it is, what mastery of it means, how to use it, and so forth. So far, it really isn't. Most of the traps so far have been brute-forced--outrunning fire, kicking through stone, etc. This not only makes Red Magician look weaker (when Raindrops can literally kick through his traps, for instance), but it throws out what could be a good opportunity to study magic a little bit. Red Magician is supposed to be one of the greatest magicians in Equestria (according to the guards in the beginning). His traps should be strong enough that they take some ingenuity and magic to defeat. That not only shows us more about Trixie and whoever Team Tyrant uses as their magician, but it makes for a more interesting story. Similar to how shoehorning in the Lyra/BB proposal into DwtF would have been kind of a letdown after all the buildup, I think if this fic is going to use Red Magician, the magic expert who thinks Magic Is King, it's a letdown if all that magic gives us is traps that can be walked around or punched through without any magic aid.

So... I'm opposed. If the story was thoroughly copy-edited, the continuity errors were fixed, etc., though, I'd probably reconsider.

2605748

First, on a surface level, the story has a lot of grammatical problems that make it really hard to read (at least for me).

That is, in general, my biggest problem with vazak; having said that, that's just a cleaning problem, for the most part.

Second, there are continuity issues

Agreed; I like the basic premise of the story, but I think he needs to do a ground-up rewrite while keeping in mind the changes to canon that have occurred.

Third, I feel this story is missing out on a lot of the point of its premise

This is my smallest problem with the fic, but I do agree that it is a problem. It should feel like a trip through the Tomb of Horrors or something.

Having said that, though, everypony there should have a way to contribute; the story shouldn't be "Trixie and her friends get through a magical dungeon thanks to Trixie and maybe Lyra." So as much as the magic needs to be re-emphasized, it needs to be done in such a way that each member of the L6 can have a moment to shine.

(This could be justified by Red Magician, valuing spellcasting above all else, underestimated how useful pegasus flight/weather control or earth pony strength/stamina could be at certain points in the dungeon - but on the other hand, I agree that the dungeon should emphasize magic above all else).

2605907 : Agreed that everyone on team L6 should contribute, and I like your idea about maybe being able to circumnavigate/beat some traps by utilizing pegasi/earth pony magic, while still keeping the focus of the dungeon as magic above all else.

As for voting, for now I'd say noncanon barring a rewrite to take these issues into account.

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The grammar and continuity don't really concern me at the moment, but like RDD said most of that is cleanup work and such.

Admittedly, Vaz probably should have put this through the writer's workshop first before bringing it to the Quorum, but he's been sitting on this for a long while now, cycling through multiple revisions and re-revision and so I can understand his desire to just finally get it out there. As far as a canonicity vote goes though, I can't vote either yay or nay right now because I don't think that's what here is in anyway indicative of a finished product.

(This could be justified by Red Magician, valuing spellcasting above all else, underestimated how useful pegasus flight/weather control or earth pony strength/stamina could be at certain points in the dungeon - but on the other hand, I agree that the dungeon should emphasize magic above all else).

That was exactly the idea that Vaz and I discussed when I story edited the original version for him months ago. That many of the traps would be nigh impossible for any unicorn short of a Twilight caliber prodigy to pass, but that due to his own arrogance in assuming only a unicorn would ever be trying in the first place, RM failed to account for flaws that could be easily exploited by the other two tribes. Furthermore, RM presumed that like only someone like himself would even try, so he also failed to account for a team effort.

Cheerilee, not being Pinkie Pie, shouldn't be able to turn a bunch of vines into a glider. (If it was materials that were at least glider-like, like gigantic leafy plants, maybe, but vines--especially those thick and heavy enough to support Cheerilee's weight--don't fit at all).

This is a topic I'd really like to address more fully with the rest of the quorum. Our setting is supposed to be a world of high fantasy and so as such need not be bound by mundane plausibility's where it is dramatically more interesting to exploit the extraordinary. Given that Cheerilee is already our pony of many inexplicable skills, I see no problem with adding the occasional MacGyvering to what she can get away with.

2606234 : Sorry, but Cheerilee being able to build a glider out of vines while dangling off a cliff and while some nutjob is trying to kill her breaks my suspension of disbelief. If she were on level ground and had access to more supplies, even more plant-y supplies like leaves, sure. I can see her being able to rig up a glider in that case. What I can't see is her being able to do it in these conditions, especially since she has about five seconds to do it. It reads as incredibly contrived

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Admittedly, in the context of this exact circumstance, you have a point, but that's not how you originally phased the complaint. Still, as long as you willing to accept the idea elsewise, I guess we have nothing to argue about. Though it might be fair to better explain to Vaz what part of the scene was problematic.

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I'm gonna side with Grass here, somewhat. Though I do think Cheerilee should be allowed to MacGuyver up something, and not necessarily something realistic. Just, more realistic than a glider.

2606384 : Sure. I'm fine with her MacGuyvering something cool; that's a very Cheerilee-esque thing to do. It's this one instance of it that didn't work for me.

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Is it just me, or are you and I arguing less lately?

...though now I've probably gone and jinxed it.

2606418 : I certainly hope it's not jinxed. I like that the boards are less contentious these days.

2606418 Well we haven't debated Siege of Stalliongrad...

2619257 : I'd like to finish it, first, before getting into that. If only because there's a lot of 'stuff isn't what it seems' going on.