http://www.fimfiction.net/story/44650/five-weeks-till-nightfall

"It began with a tragedy, a massacre unintended. From a terrible event, a war has expanded to fill the entire world and a decade, the cause shifting from a massacre and a war over resources to a crusade; one side wishes to end a war, the other side wishes to end one pony. For the longest time, it was a war of soldiers and of ordinary weapons, each side racing for the best advantage. But the combination of innovative brilliance and tragic desperation stemming from the best of intentions has turned the war from one of soldiers and machines to one over which the dread shadow of apocalypse looms. With a sudden positive turn in the military fortunes of Equestria, that shadow has advanced to inevitability.

It is five weeks to nightfall, and the time is slipping away."

As noted on the introductory page of the story, "Five Weeks Till Nightfall" is an AU of an AU, specifically the AU that contains Kkat's epic "War And Peace" length story "Fallout Equestria". It supposes a scenario in which the second-tier officials at certain of the Ministries undertake an initiative to pursue three separate war-winning "Manhatten Project" level projects in an attempt to bring the Zebra-Pony War to a quick end before a recent positive turn in Equestrian military fortunes makes the zebras desperate enough to resort to their recently-acquired megaspell arsenal. This is set five weeks prior to the simultaneous megaspell attacks on Canterlot, Manehattan, Fillydelphia, and all over what would become the Equestrian Wastes.

The general story centers around two major OCs, a Ministry of Morale black ops engineer named Verde Tin and her half-zebra cousin Astraylzenica, as they go about trying to personally attend to the success of the three projects and find themselves having to try and put out other fires as they go, all the while aware that they're operating under a ticking clock whose end they don't know. There are other OCs that are mentioned and have an effect, although the reader rarely if ever meets them, and minor OCs that are part of the story but drop in and out as needed; I've got backstories and descriptions for them if needed.

Verde Tin is the only daughter of one of three Undermares in the Ministry of Morale. She has a serious gear-head bent and tends to be extremely technically-minded, although a little less focused on the world and general social interaction than she is on her technical notes and blueprints. Her specialization is extreme magical precision, whether tinkering with a device or inscribing extremely delicate runes on an object to give it magical properties, and she isn't particularly powerful. In keeping with her love of precision, she carries weapons that have been accurized and specialized for sharpshooting.

Astrylzenica (who generally goes by the name "Astra" or "Zen", depending on who's addressing her) is the daughter of a now-retired zebra soldier (who served prior to the current war) and the head of the Ministry of Wartime Technology's weapons R&D branch under Mare Applejack. Astra's mother is the sister-by-mutual-adoption of Verde Tin's and so, they're technically cousins. Where Verde is gifted in technical things, Astra is more of a "people person" and does good service as a spy siince there is no visible difference between her and a full-blood zebra.

Hope that's sufficient to the moment; I'm practically always on so questions and comments will never take more than 12 hours to be addressed.

Holy text, Batpony!

Meh, I love you, and I'm the one who unleashed you on this poor, unsuspecting group of idiots, so I suppose I'm obligated to take the job. If you want extensive edits, talk to me about it. If you want just general commentary (if you write fic anywhere near as well as you write arguments, you shouldn't even need me) then the threads will do you just fine.

Mainly what I'm looking for with both stories is general commentary. Answers to questions like:
What is missing?
What seems slow or overly drab?
What do you think could be done to make it more itnteresting?
Is a certain character OP or Mary Sue-ish?
And most critically and most importantly of all:
How do you suggest that the problems you see be addressed?

I naturally hunger for commentary on my work because I can never get much in the way of unsparing criticism; my magnum opus, on a different site, has gotten about 5 comments for each of the 20 chapters and every comment is pat on the back instead of helpful commentary.

659826 Hooooooolly fuck. As much as I would absolutely love to, I don't know if I will be able to find the time to really dive deeply into a story of this length right now. The idea certainly sounds interesting and I'll probably start reading either this or the other in another day or so. As I said, you write incredibly well from a technical standpoint and Id imagine you're capable of telling a compelling narrative, too, so... I'll give it a look and let you know what I think.

I'll try to be as quick as possible, but it might be awhile. If there are any specific points, scenes or anything you want me to specifically look at, let me know. I'll hit those first.

663910 No worries. I've been waiting literal years for feedback on "Expedition" and will wait years more if that's what it takes. So even a few months to get some hints on this work would be water off a duck's back. Naturally, it'd also be cool to get the same kind of help for "Game of Worlds" but if you are daunted by "Five Weeks Till Nightfall", "Game of Worlds" would be the apocalypse because it's 3x longer so far and growing as fast as I can write chapters. Because popularity is oxygen to the fire of my ambition and more people care about "Game of Worlds" although it was far more "heh, I might as well write this" than "I really care about this story and want to write it".

663949 Just bagged the first chapter of Five Weeks, and I'll offer a response now because I'm not going to be able to
read the rest right now. I'm hoping to kill it off by tonight, or at least get to the halfway point, but we'll see. Lots of
stuff to do today. Anyway, the characters look good and the story's interesting, although I'm confused on a couple points. Mostly who the aunt is, the general layout of the world, and some other things which I assume are taken from the setting you're borrowing here. I'll admit I've neither read nor plan to read Fallout Equestria, and since I'm in the minority on that as far as your fanbase goes you should be fine. However I would like to see at least a very basic description of what the hell is going on for those of us who are unfamiliar with the source material. Especially consider the reason we're unfamiliar with it - it's hugely famous and highly recommended and easily accessible to everyone, and those who have managed to avoid absorbing any knowledge of its setting have done so by choice. I don't like technomancy, trying to fuse a technological world with a magical one, and the relative seriousness of Fallout being applied to a world like Equestria completely repulses me for a whole variety of other reasons. I don't want to read this sort of thing, but the way your description was worded I probably would have given it a chance. Then the second I go in I get mired in pages and pages of people discussing the specific points and actions of characters I've never even heard of. Megaspells? Ministry of Peace? Fluttershy? What's going on here? Basically all my worst fears about the genre have just been proven bang-on correct, and if I'd not been reading this as an editor I would have quit long before reading all the way to the end of the first chapter. So... maybe some light narration rather than putting ALL your exposition into dialogue (more on that point in a minute), which suffers from the problems of requiring a reason for the characters to talk. That said, once the story actually got rolling, it did genuinely pull me in. There's enough general world exposition which paints an interesting enough picture to overcome some of my knee-jerk reaction to the technomancy idea, and even if that wasn't the case I'd read this just because I like the characters. So really the only problem I have is with the cold-boot beginning that just dumps us in the middle of a debate about the finer points of a world I'm totally unfamiliar with, which does very little to draw me in. And, considering how I AM in the minority here, it's not even all that big of an issue. So, yes, that thing I just wasted two paragraphs whining aout doesn't really need fixed if you'd rather not do anything about it.

There is one thing unrelated to my own (diminishing) prejudice against this universe, however, and that's all the blatant world exposition. I don't know if you watch Nostalgia Critic videos, but there were literally scores of lines of dialogue where I was fighting hard against the urge to just start scrolling because I could just see that little Casper ghost singing "Exposition, exposition, rush it out A-S-A-P..." Obviously your format of embedding it in dialogue makes for some more exciting reading, versus sitting there and just banging it out in narration, but there's a real struggle with pacing it properly. The stuff about the war makes sense, as in DIRECTLY RELATED TO the war, like the bit explaining the zebras' motives, was fine. But then I get to parts like "why do the changelings live in a wasteland" and it just goes off on a tangent... I really get the feeling that the characters are being forced to talk about these topics instead of letting them flow naturally. Give this another read and consider shifting some of those blocks to later in the story (if such a thing is possible; I've still not yet read anything beyond the first chapter) - I foresee a scene where some characters are on their way to see Chrysalis, and THAT would probably be a good place to have one character bring up the reasons for the changelings living there. It just is too much (interesting) information too fast, a rather annoying contrast when the beginning left me stranded without any idea what was going on and no reason to keep reading except because you asked me to.

This is especially troubling when the chapter finally reaches its climax as the machine turns on, and in one paragraph of action it's all done with. That could have been really awesome, but before I even knew what was happening it was over with. When the chapter's as long as it is, and then I look at words spent talking about exposition that as-of-yet has no bearing on the plot compared to words spent watching a machine blow up a building... it's completely out of order for my tastes.

Summary of first chapter recommendations for improvement:
-Beginning's unfriendly to FOE virgins
-Too much plot exposition, too little descriptive action scenes
-Dialogue mechanics: "Words," she said <--the "she" doesn't get capitalized - you usually miss this.
-The ranks - you only drop them once or twice, and it was just enough to confuse the hell out of me. The incoming stallion's a Major, and he refers to Zen as "corporal" (FAR lesser rank), and then says "commander" and "boss" when talking to them, and in general acts really deferential. Make sure that you've given them the proper ranks and aren't missing anything there. I was the confuse.

Still... I'm looking forward to reading more, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for any other story I've come across in the Fallout Equestria universe. Your writing style is great, and for everything I dislike about it there's plenty of things I like. I'll hold off the praise until later, though; this comment's long enough as is.

681240

I'll admit I've neither read nor plan to read Fallout Equestria, and since I'm in the minority on that as far as your fanbase goes you should be fine. However I would like to see at least a very basic description of what the hell is going on for those of us who are unfamiliar with the source material.

How would you suggest that I prove this description? A giant author's note? The first chapter devoted to explaining, author to reader, what's going on? I'm always giddy about telling a story but since you don't like the exposition-in-dialogue as much, I'm not sure how to provide it outside of a big explanatory document.

I don't like technomancy, trying to fuse a technological world with a magical one, and the relative seriousness of Fallout being applied to a world like Equestria completely repulses me for a whole variety of other reasons.

It's probably not relevant to the review, but I'd be interested in knowing why this repulses you and why you don't like technomancy. Like in a PM or something, if you feel like telling me.

Then the second I go in I get mired in pages and pages of people discussing the specific points and actions of characters I've never even heard of. Megaspells? Ministry of Peace? Fluttershy? What's going on here?

You, sir, have just asked the question people always ask when they read my stories: "why are you dropping me into this story with 50 years of history and a gazillion metric tonnes of context and not telling me any of it?" Answer is... because I don't know how to provide these things. I have all of them in my head but no idea how to put them into the story for the perusal and edification of a very lost and confused reader.

So... maybe some light narration rather than putting ALL your exposition into dialogue (more on that point in a minute), which suffers from the problems of requiring a reason for the characters to talk.

What you mean by "light narration" and how to accomplish it would be awesome because it would solve so many problems. :)

So, yes, that thing I just wasted two paragraphs whining about doesn't really need fixed if you'd rather not do anything about it.

But I do want to do something about it because I regard it as a major weakness of mine.

But then I get to parts like "why do the changelings live in a wasteland" and it just goes off on a tangent... I really get the feeling that the characters are being forced to talk about these topics instead of letting them flow naturally.

I clearly need to work harder on making it more obvious why the topic is coming up then.

Give this another read and consider shifting some of those blocks to later in the story (if such a thing is possible; I've still not yet read anything beyond the first chapter) - I foresee a scene where some characters are on their way to see Chrysalis, and THAT would probably be a good place to have one character bring up the reasons for the changelings living there.

I'll do what I can with that, but because the story is written up to chapter 5, it'd unfortunately require doing a major revision of the "going to see Chrysalis" scene because I have it set up so that the two characters on the train remain separated the entire time, thus making the conversation between the character that knows (Verde) and the character that doesn't (Astra) not possible.

This is especially troubling when the chapter finally reaches its climax as the machine turns on, and in one paragraph of action it's all done with. That could have been really awesome, but before I even knew what was happening it was over with.

I'd love some suggestions on what to do with the scene to extend it more. Or at least some idea of what kind of action and events you'd like to see come out of the situation being described.

-The ranks - you only drop them once or twice, and it was just enough to confuse the hell out of me. The incoming stallion's a Major, and he refers to Zen as "corporal" (FAR lesser rank), and then says "commander" and "boss" when talking to them, and in general acts really deferential.

He acts deferential towards Verde because she's the top-ranked officer in the room and towards Zen because Zen's her younger cousin and she's protective of her. And unless I'm missing something, E-4 (corporal) and O-4 (major) are equivalents of the two officer "tracks" (non-commissioned and commissioned respectively). I admit that I'm not familiar with how ranks work though, and would appreciate having it explained to me.

Still... I'm looking forward to reading more, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for any other story I've come across in the Fallout Equestria universe. Your writing style is great, and for everything I dislike about it there's plenty of things I like.

You're kind to say so, thank you. But as you've pointed out, there are definite places where improvement is needed.

681676

How would you suggest that I prove this description? A giant author's note?

I hate plugging my own work, but since I don't have the time to really read much fanfiction for my own enjoyment, and in this case I don't remember anything that does what I'm about to recommend, I guess I'd have to point you at my own. The description doesn't have to be intense, and explaining the background behind every single thing you say. Say... New Vegas. Somebody makes a quip about President Tandi, and the Fallout newbie goes "who?" - you don't have to explain every action she undertakes through FO1 and FO2 in order to make it work. You can just say "the first NCR president," or even let that particular quip slide. Actually, New Vegas did exactly this. I recall a quest where an NCR citizen gave your character a "citizenship test" to determine if you were worth giving resources to, and he starts asking questions lifted largely from Fallout 2. The answers to these questions were specific, and probably difficult for a non-FO2 player to get without reading the Wiki articles for the game at least. That test doesn't HURT you, it just doesn't let you get a few extra ammo clips or whatever he was handing out to NCR citizens. For the purposes of FNV, all you need to know is there's this big power from California trying to rebuild America exactly like it used to be. One sentence.

When I use the phrase "light narration," this is what I'm talking about. Something akin to the speech about War Never Changes that comes at the beginning of every Fallout game. A few snippets of the bare basics. When China and the United States blew each other up with nuclear bombs in the year 2077. Don't say it started at 8AM on October 23rd, just say 2077. Don't explain how China captured Anchorage and we invaded them and then we were fighting over resources and then we annexed Canada and disbanded the UN and then finally it all culminated in war. Couple basics. That'll do. I tried to establish my AU in Unlikely Story by providing the catalyst for the change (a parallel universe being created at the moment Nightmare Moon was defeated, and the story sticking with the alternate rather than the one the show picked) in a scene, and then having the Doc explain the bare basics of the history afterwards. That obviously won't work here at all because you've got an excellent bantery dialogue scene which shouldn't get messed with, but you could expand off a line where there's a relative lull in dialogue and just provide some of those absolute basic elements. Having characters say "hey, you know how we've been at war with China for the past few decades?" is clunky because it doesn't feel like the characters would want to talk about these things - it's common knowledge. This is where audience surrogates come in, but since those can get annoying and you certainly don't want to ruin the scene by adding one, I think the best thing to do is find some way of expanding off this with narration.

But honestly... I guess it is pretty much impossible, with the world being what it is and with the way you're writing these scenes so well I don't want to ruin them. It's not crucial to the story of Fallout whether or not you know that the United States had been divided up pre-apocalypse into 13 Commonwealths, but it is kinda crucial to know what Ministries are and who's fighting this war and what megaspells are and... everything. I'll read the rest and see if I can get a better grasp of this to figure out what else you can do... all I can do until then is advise you to try and stick one- or two-sentence (simple sentences, no 200-word ramblers) descriptive bits explaining the absolute, rock-bottom basics of the world wherever you can find a place to put them. Even that's probably nigh-on impossible without breaking up the flow. Which means... FOE virgins just gotta stay away, but if they're anything like me they'd be doing that anyway.

I have it set up so that the two characters on the train remain separated the entire time

Off the top of my head, I could think of her overhearing someone else mention something ignorant, like "good thing they keep that changeling queen locked up in the wastes," and then she goes on sort of an internal rant:

Verde couldn't believe their ignorance. The western end of Equestria was vital, and Chrysalis had been given the position because of the warm relationship... I don't remember the rest of the line... such baseless hatred of different types of creatures without even bothering to consider their redeeming points was the very reason they were fighting this war in the first place!

E-4 (corporal) and O-4 (major) are equivalents of the two officer "tracks" (non-commissioned and commissioned respectively)

Where'd you get this? Corporals aren't officers. Not in the US Army, which seems like the best thing to base your version on since a) Equestria is actually very similar to the United States in terms of its city names and basic geography b) Equestria is taking the role of America as it appears in the Fallout setting. Officers are command ranks that order squads around and stuff. They're in battle, too, but they learn an entirely different skillset from what enlisted men do. When you enlist, you go to boot camp, you get your ass kicked, you do physical stuff all the time to make you a one-man killing machine working within a group of other one-man killing machines that collectively forms a squad, a platoon, a company, a division, eventually just a whole big blob of warfare and mechanized death. When you're an officer, you go to college and learn strategy and tactics and shit. You learn how to play chess, while enlisted men learn how to be chess pieces. Corporal is a decent enlisted rank, which you get after getting promoted up from Private, but a Private will never become a Major nor a General nor a Major General (I'm very, very sorry...).

Anyway, in practice, a Major is superior to a Corporal by quite a bit. Maybe I read the line wrong where he says "Boss." If he was talking about Verde, who is the "commander," then I retract what I said (although I would point out that "commander" is a strictly naval rank, while "corporal" is a strictly an Army/Marines rank - here, it's dangerous to randomly invent shit alone, so take this!).

If you really want me to go off on a rant about what I don't like about the concept of FOE... I'll write one.

Oh, one final thing - the way you used this story as a vessel to vent your rage toward Pinkie Pie... please tell me that becomes at least a minor plot thread. I need to see this happen. It is too awesome and sadistically pleasurable to me. <emoticon chosen purely for ironic humor value

681676 Also I should mention that the suggestion I made about Chrysalis isn't the only thing I got. You could do it all in narration. "They were on a train to the wastes to see the sexiest motherfucking pony in all creation (anyone who says otherwise is wrong). On the surface, it might have seemed odd that the changelings were still kept alone out in what was essentially a wasteland, despite the warm relationship with Equestria, but because of [reasons] it was deemed okay to let them host tea parties there on alternate Wednesdays, and besides Chrysalis is fucking sexy and you can't have her too close to your capital or the whole army would just go salivate all over her instead of guarding your shit, and that'd be prettybadnewspony. Plus... uh... well, I just started thinking of Chrysalis's sweet, sweet ass and my entire train of thought derailed into gottaplowthatshitville, but anyway that's where she lives and that's where this train is going and Chrysalis is hot as fuck."

681952

But honestly... I guess it is pretty much impossible, with the world being what it is and with the way you're writing these scenes so well I don't want to ruin them. It's not crucial to the story of Fallout whether or not you know that the United States had been divided up pre-apocalypse into 13 Commonwealths, but it is kinda crucial to know what Ministries are and who's fighting this war and what megaspells are and... everything. I'll read the rest and see if I can get a better grasp of this to figure out what else you can do... all I can do until then is advise you to try and stick one- or two-sentence (simple sentences, no 200-word ramblers) descriptive bits explaining the absolute, rock-bottom basics of the world wherever you can find a place to put them.

Do you think that the author's notes section would be useful for this?

Where'd you get this? Corporals aren't officers. Not in the US Army, which seems like the best thing to base your version on since a) Equestria is actually very similar to the United States in terms of its city names and basic geography b) Equestria is taking the role of America as it appears in the Fallout setting.

Corporals are officers. Non-commissioned officers, but officers nonetheless.

Maybe I read the line wrong where he says "Boss." If he was talking about Verde, who is the "commander," then I retract what I said (although I would point out that "commander" is a strictly naval rank, while "corporal" is a strictly an Army/Marines rank - here, it's dangerous to randomly invent shit alone, so take this!).

He's talking to Verde. I tend to use the term "commander" as a general way of addressing the commanding officer in a given situation. Verde's rank would be Lt. Colonel, right above Pale Ribbons in rank but still distinctly higher in rank. I also chose the rank of "corporal" for Astra/Zen because it's in the same slot (E-4) as the rank of "specialist" which is a more accurate description of the role she plays in a military sense. But because "specialists" aren't non-coms, I went with corporal.

If you really want me to go off on a rant about what I don't like about the concept of FOE... I'll write one.

I do! Your rants, based on how you handled Pinkie Pie, are both enormously entertaining and thought-provoking because (again, based on Pinkie Pie) your grievances aren't unreasonable.

Oh, one final thing - the way you used this story as a vessel to vent your rage toward Pinkie Pie... please tell me that becomes at least a minor plot thread.

Unfortunately, the very best (although sadly short) anti-Pinkie rant comes on page 900 or so of Ascension which is told from the perspective of a unicorn (who's a stand in for the "Vault Dweller" of FO1 and FO2) named 'Littlepip'. Jhesiara is Pinkie Pie's successor in the Ministry of Morale (and is an alicorn, long explanation).

Her expression tightened with anger. “If only there had been a Ministry that took upon itself the responsibility of keeping a close eye on bad ponies hiding in our midst, we might have tagged him and caused him to suffer a tragic accident.”

At the last part, her sarcasm was blatant and her voice became deeply bitter. “But no, it was far more important to spy on loyal ponies and train unicorns to rip memories from their minds. Who had time for bad ponies when you could hurt good ones?”

“It sounds like you thought Mare…”

"Don’t call her that!” Jhesiara snarled, the green of her irises flaring. “That… bubbly, stupid, empty-headed drug addict so tarnished her title and the name of my Ministry that we are still regarded as the dark and evil Ministry that comes to rip foals from their families and drag them away to a dungeon to be tortured for information. The Black Watch raids a slaver stronghold, slaughters the slavers, and cares for the victims and it’s just one more overreaction from the bad ponies at the Ministry of Morale. Clean out a nest of raiders? Murderers. Firmly suggest that a little city in the wastes avoid associating with slavers? Bullies. Build a heavily-fortified fallback tower in case the nearest MAS hub, filled with civilians, is overcome and needs shelter? Thugs. We could spend every hour of every last fucking day rescuing kittens from trees and it wouldn’t make a Goddess-damned bit of difference.” She turned eyes full of hate and rage on me, causing me to shrink before her instinctively, and clenched her teeth. “Don’t. Call. Her. By. My. Title.”

681980 Dammit... where's my ROTFLMAO icon when I need it?

682100 I... can't...

Okay, I actually have to be somewhere in about 20 minutes so I can't fully respond, but two quick things:
-Wasn't aware corporal fell under the banner of NCO, but, I'm almost positive you get there by enlisting and then demonstrating leadership ability. Officers and Enlisted is a better way of thinking of the military, as far as I can tell. People who go to a special school (like West Point, if you're in the Army) and learn tactics on the battlefield more than how to shoot a rifle, I call them officers. People who learn how to shoot rifles and throw knives at faces and somehow eat MRE's without dying, those I call enlisted. Because...they are. I've actually got a friend who's shipping out with the Marines...soonish... and I don't know for sure but I think he's managed to work his way up to Lance Corporal or even Corporal just because he recruited a bunch of people; Uncle Sam calls that "leadership ability" and ranks him up. Regardless, it doesn't matter. If you're a corporal, a Major has authority over you unless you're on special orders from the President or something.

Also that Pinkie rant is absolutely glorious and if I could reach through the internet and hug you I would.

More coming later tonight; I got a hot date with Chrysalis and I don't want to be late.
I'd sell my fucking legs to be able to say I wasn't lying.

682394

If you're a corporal, a Major has authority over you unless you're on special orders from the President or something.

Which is entirely true here but since there has not yet been a situation where Pale has given Astra orders, we don't really see the practical application of his authority over her. That, and things can get a little weird when you work for one boss but secretly take your orders from her second in command.

I'd sell my fucking legs to be able to say I wasn't lying.

I hear ya, man, I hear ya.

682100 Okay, actual response time:

Do you think that the author's notes section would be useful for this?

I'm not sure how to feel about that idea. Everything I know about proper writing says to put all your actual story in the story; if you're not good enough to make the story stand for itself, you shouldn't be writing. BUT, there really doesn't seem to be any other way. Maybe it is best to be somewhat light on the details, and leave some things vague.

The way it starts out is enough to give us the basics of the war. Maybe elaborate on the line "nobody likes war" with "nobody likes this war with the zebras." Or other little things like that, where you can just slip in a simple sentence which doesn't sound all that out of place and yet provides invaluable background information. Next, though, is where things get tricky.

“Hope.” Astra pulled back from the nuzzle and chuckled bitterly. “The Mare of Peace hoofs over the framework for a weapon of mass murder to the enemy and we are still supposed to have hope. The Ministry of Morale follows the lead of a drug-addled monster and we’re supposed to have hope.”
“She’s not a monster. She’s…”
“The only thing between my father and the Ministry ripping his thoughts out of his mind is your mother, Verde.”

That first paragraph is just fine; it's a rant, it's full of historical information we need, but then the later two lines get confused. Obviously we're talking about Pinkie Pie here, but a rewording could help. Maybe add another sentence afterward giving a brief followup, like Zen really emphasizing the point. Hell, even name Pinkie Pie here if it won't screw up the rest of the story: "My father knows [things]! If Mare Pinkie Pie had her way, she'd [do stuff] to get [those things]!"

The Major's intro scene is fine. But the mention of Nightmare Moon is another confusing point for the virgin. I take it the zebras want to kill Luna because they're scared of what she did, but the ponies know that Luna's not evil and are fighting to defend her or something. Maybe put a line in there, "every time I hear it, it sounds all the more absurd. Everypony knows what happened wasn't entirely her fault, and that was a long time ago anyway, and [stuff]! Honestly, what do they think she’s going to do? Love them to death?"

Beyond that... the more I read this, the more sense it makes. I'm going to chalk up a lot of my earlier complaints to the fact that I read this while distracted, because you do a decent job of saying what needs to be said. There's just a couple things which are confusing or under-explained, and because I'm mentally asking myself "why?" as I continue onward looking for answers, I sort of miss some of what follows. Add all those "why" moments together and then consider the bits and pieces of the well-written description bits that I missed when I was scratching my head in confusion, and by the end of it I have no idea what's going on. That's pretty much what happened. All you've got to keep in mind in a chapter as description-heavy as this is that every time you leave the audience asking "why?" their heads aren't fully in the game as they proceed, so your subsequent description has to be less subtle and more direct, unless you're like me and would prefer just making the first case abundantly clear.

Also the changeling scene is kind of too much. At that point, when they go off into another thread of discussion, I go "okay, come on, actually do some stuff now." Patience to sit through pages of description is limited, and by the time the changeling bit rolls around it is most certainly exhausted. I maintain that it'd be better saved for the following chapter and possibly embedded within narration.

As for the action scene I didn't really address, just put more description into it. Actually describe how the shield destroys things; does it vaporize them a la Aperture Science Emancipation Fields? Is it just a rapidly-expanding solid mass which shoves everything out of its way and thus destroys a bunch of stuff? Also,

She didn’t give Pale or Astra a moment to obey, grabbing them in telekinetic bubbles and dragging them down the ramp along with her, getting to the level of the generator just as the surging shield energy fused the projection breakers shut and the artificial imitation of an alicorn bubble shield exploded outwards, wiping out consoles, roof, and walls with the solid wall of magical energy, the shield remaining on for a split second before the sudden lack of power shut it down.

That's all one sentence. Holy shit. Bust that thing up into pieces!
-A sentence or two of them running. Images of hooves banging on metal or whatever material they're running down, Verde's magic and its effects on them; are they trying to run, but being dragged along by the telekinesis? That sort of thing.
-At least two or three sentences about the bubble expanding, and how exactly it destroys stuff. Show specific cases, and describe how individual objects (not the collective "consoles, roof, and walls" but actual, individual consoles) get wiped out.
-Another sentence or two showing the bubble shutting off as it reacts to the consequences of its own damage. Let us see it blowing up the stuff that cuts its power, then let us see it fail.
-THEN you can move on and describe the aftermath. Ideally by this point you'll have a pretty decent paragraph or even perhaps two paragraphs of description of the action, so the aftermath should be separated from the action instead of following immediately afterward as it does here.

Let me know if there's anything you'd like further clarity on. I'm going to try and read a few more chapters of this sometime today.

684775

Maybe add another sentence afterward giving a brief followup, like Zen really emphasizing the point. Hell, even name Pinkie Pie here if it won't screw up the rest of the story: "My father knows [things]! If Mare Pinkie Pie had her way, she'd [do stuff] to get [those things]!"

I'll work out a way to do that although I think it's hard to beat the impact of what's there. I can't think of a better way to convey the fact that the MoM is completely out of control than to have a character remark that if not for [person], their father would get hauled away and have his memories ripped out of his head for no other reason than the fact that he's a zebra. Perhaps I need to state that more directly?

But the mention of Nightmare Moon is another confusing point for the virgin. I take it the zebras want to kill Luna because they're scared of what she did, but the ponies know that Luna's not evil and are fighting to defend her or something. Maybe put a line in there, "every time I hear it, it sounds all the more absurd. Everypony knows what happened wasn't entirely her fault, and that was a long time ago anyway, and [stuff]! Honestly, what do they think she’s going to do? Love them to death?"

Well, that's the thing: in this universe, Nightmare Moon and Luna are two different ponies and exist concurrently. The zebra issue is twofold: they don't recognize that Nightmare Moon is reformed (in the way that's described in Pen Stroke's story "Past Sins"), and they don't recognize that Nightmare Moon is a totally separate pony from Luna. So it's two flavors of religious-fanatic crazy for the price of one.

All you've got to keep in mind in a chapter as description-heavy as this is that every time you leave the audience asking "why?" their heads aren't fully in the game as they proceed, so your subsequent description has to be less subtle and more direct, unless you're like me and would prefer just making the first case abundantly clear.

Yes, and that's why I need reviewer help: because I know all the answers, all the headcanon, everything that's going on, the entire background... I never ask "why" and thus can't see where a reader might ask "why".

I maintain that it'd be better saved for the following chapter and possibly embedded within narration.

You've hammered this enough that I think it'd be wise to work out how to move it into a different place.

As for the action scene I didn't really address, just put more description into it. Actually describe how the shield destroys things; does it vaporize them a la Aperture Science Emancipation Fields? Is it just a rapidly-expanding solid mass which shoves everything out of its way and thus destroys a bunch of stuff?

It's a shield, so it does the second. I'll work on making this clearer.

-A sentence or two of them running. Images of hooves banging on metal or whatever material they're running down, Verde's magic and its effects on them; are they trying to run, but being dragged along by the telekinesis? That sort of thing.
-At least two or three sentences about the bubble expanding, and how exactly it destroys stuff. Show specific cases, and describe how individual objects (not the collective "consoles, roof, and walls" but actual, individual consoles) get wiped out.
-Another sentence or two showing the bubble shutting off as it reacts to the consequences of its own damage. Let us see it blowing up the stuff that cuts its power, then let us see it fail.
-THEN you can move on and describe the aftermath. Ideally by this point you'll have a pretty decent paragraph or even perhaps two paragraphs of description of the action, so the aftermath should be separated from the action instead of following immediately afterward as it does here.

D00D... I can feel the L33Tness emanating from you...
Thanks much!

Sorry this is taking me so long. In addition to my standard busy schedule and long list of things to do, I've been a bit of an emotional mess for inexplicable reasons I can't explain, and those times I had time to read this coincided with times I was really upset, and I figured it made more sense to wait until I actually had a level head before weighing in on this. Few points from last chapter:

I can't think of a better way to convey the fact that the MoM is completely out of control than to have a character remark that if not for [person], their father would get hauled away and have his memories ripped out of his head for no other reason than the fact that he's a zebra. Perhaps I need to state that more directly?

That's sort of what I was saying. You don't say "for no other reason than he's a zebra." I assumed he actually had some kind of knowledge. So yes, a more direct statement which actually explains why this is ridiculous would be much appreciated.

they don't recognize that Nightmare Moon is reformed (in the way that's described in Pen Stroke's story "Past Sins")

Can I get a synopsis in one or two sentences? I've never read Past Sins and the amount of hatred that people I respect have for that story has convinced me I'm best staying away. At best it'll probably be a waste of my time, and at worst I'll have ANOTHER ultra-famous fanfiction that I despise, so... I'm not gonna get involved, but I'd like to know the gist of what you're talking about as it pertains to your story.

I never ask "why" and thus can't see where a reader might ask "why".

Always ask "why." Every single time you introduce something, question yourself. That's about all I can really advise.

Re: chapter 2, the pacing's a lot better and even though it's still all talking and exposition, I didn't get bored halfway through. Maybe it's because your portrayal of Chrysalis is above and beyond the call of awesomeness, and I desperately want to have sex with her. If that's TMI then fuck you Chrysalis is sexy.

I really don't have much to say about ch 2 - the characters are interesting and the descriptive stuff didn't get on my nerves this time. I'm interested in seeing where this goes and I'll try to read more soon. I really hate having so little time.

659691 Chapter Three! There's some stuff here to be worked on. Mostly big enormous sentences that are confusing. Like:

The fact remained, however, that his life was in danger if his unicorn beloved ever tried to use magic like an ordinary unicorn because changelings draw upon their reserves of absorbed love to power spells and my connection to him would inevitably replenish me at his expense.

Sort of strange science, since you just got done explaining that her connection is no longer parasitic. If he nourishes her by loving her, then she's getting fed without hurting him. Since he loves her, she should be able to replenish her spell reserves with non-parasitically-obtained love energy, no? I could see if it was a particularly taxing spell that took everything she had and her body instinctively resorted back into parasite mode, but... hm. The logic behind that doesn't make any sense to me.

Also the sentence rambles. It needs to be broken up at the "because," or at the very least given some commas to indicate pauses.

The only way I could find was the mysterious, semi-aware power of the Elements of Harmony: I had Evergreen expose me, knowing that the natural reaction of Celestia and her court to finding the primary villain of the invasion would be to overreact and the ultimate overreaction was to have the Bearers of the Elements unleash their power on me. The manipulation was successful: they thought me permanently destroyed and the Elements altered what I was, such that I could nourish myself in the normal pony manner, had an ordinary pony lifespan, but was stripped of my changeling powers.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. The Elements trapped Discord in a stone and NMM on the moon. I really don't understand what the hell kind of magicscience is going on here... the Elements have always done exactly as they were asked. What reasoning is there for them to fail? How could Chrysalis anticipate NOT being defeated and destroyed? You're really playing havoc with my suspension of disbelief with this one.

“The connection would not be parasitic anymore,” Astra surmised. “Food nourishes you and you have your own reserves of magic like a unicorn does. Your people can, and do, enjoy ordinary loving relationships with anyone they wish because ultimately, they can choose to be the same shape as whomever they’ve fall in love with.”

Aww. Disney ending for Chrysalis? Sad. Worse, I don't see any need for this to happen yet (maybe it'll be explained later) - if she, an old-fashioned changeling, was able to love and be loved and receive nourishment from it, why pull the plug on the entire thing that made Chrysalis such a compelling and sympathetic villain? She was taking over a country...in the interests of her own people. She was trying to save the lives of her own kind, forced by necessity to cater to simple biology. Learning to love and be loved for who they are rather than forming parasitic loves, THAT is a good way of finding a medium that Chrysalis would have been blind to. I'm just really skeptical of the things you're doing with the changelings...I wonder at what you've got planned for the future, because there's some really strange plot holes in your explanation and I don't see any reason why they should be here.

You mention that Verde and Astra are family - how? Is she half zebra, or...what?

A jagged horn became smooth, extremities were repaired, a stringy tough mane became silky and luxurious like that of a pony, and soft fur overlaid chitin.

You ruined her! Nooooooooooooo

See? Fine shapeshifting control, right down to being able to alter my voice to precisely imitate the voice of another.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but... couldn't she already do that? I'm pretty sure she did this in the s2 finale. The only differences were her mannerisms and horn glow color.

Night snorted. “Fond isn’t quite the word. I liked her—what pony wouldn’t like a perpetually cheerful filly that’d practically kill herself trying to make you happy when you’re sad—but I had to tolerate her and her all-in-good-fun insanity more often than not. It’s just… wearying when you have to practically reduce her to tears before you can get at the side that made all the exasperation worth it. And oh, did I get tired of hearing it explained as ‘it’s Pinkie Pie being Pinkie Pie’.”

I really do hope this whole thing isn't just people talking. That gets old after while when literally the entire thing is just conversation into conversation into conversation and there isn't any sort of action in between. I'm not bored yet, but every time the topic of conversation swings to something new and still they go on talking, part of me goes "come on...do something already..." and that little voice is growing stronger and stronger as I go on.

More like, no desire to see her spontaneously combust with outrage when we get her gorgeous clothing torn to pieces crawling passed barbed wire under fire

You tease me with these images - where are these scenes?? Also it's "past."

The only thing that’s been in it besides your muzzle has been blood, mud, and sweat. It’s been an exciting month.

Less pseudo-incestuous lesbian innuendo! More gunfire and explosions!

You’re her daughter.

Okay, how the fuck does this family work? Maybe you explained it to me once before, but I'm like the king of nonconventional relationships and I'm at a total loss on this one.

“Religion is, and always will be, inexplicable,” Verde mmm’d with enjoyment. “Especially when your gods and demons are unreal. At least for us, the Princesses are very real and can be touched and conversed with and there’s no need to guess their will or their natures.”

Exactly why I worship Akatosh and the Nine Eight Divines.

Hang on, I'm out of time. I'll add a general description shortly.

690124

So yes, a more direct statement which actually explains why this is ridiculous would be much appreciated.

Done!

Can I get a synopsis in one or two sentences?

I've personally never comprehend the antipathy people have towards the story but... here goes:
A cult of ponies dedicated to the worship of Nightmare Moon returns her to life in her own body but she ends up a filly without her memories and is adopted by Twilight Sparkle, who knows who she is and calls her Nyx. Eventually Nyx gets all the Nightmare Moon memories back, goes through a rough patch trying to be the evil queen of the night, fails because she's unhappy being N.M. when she could be Nyx and have a mom and friends, and eventually gets returned to being a filly with Twilight as her adoptive mom. Cutie Mark is a kite shield because her act of recompense for her mistakes is practically killing herself defending Ponyville from a hoarde of Everfree Forest monsters.

For the purposes of my story, she's an adult, Princesses both treat her as a sister and equal, and she has a personality pretty similar to Twilight Sparkle, albeit more directly combat-capable.

Maybe it's because your portrayal of Chrysalis is above and beyond the call of awesomeness, and I desperately want to have sex with her. If that's TMI then fuck you Chrysalis is sexy.

Thanks.

692901

Sort of strange science, since you just got done explaining that her connection is no longer parasitic. If he nourishes her by loving her, then she's getting fed without hurting him. Since he loves her, she should be able to replenish her spell reserves with non-parasitically-obtained love energy, no?

Argue with Anonymous Pegasus; what I'm having Chrysalis describe is the situation at the time according to the A.P. story "Transcend" from which I plucked this version of the object of your desire.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. The Elements trapped Discord in a stone and NMM on the moon. I really don't understand what the hell kind of magicscience is going on here... the Elements have always done exactly as they were asked.

Once again: this is not my fanon, it's Anonymous Pegasus'. I performed a slight switcheroo as to the ultimate end of what the Elements did (in his story, the banishment of her changeling nature is permanent, not linked to the life of Evergreen) but that they pulled the old "interpret commands literally and creatively" trick is not my fanon.

Worse, I don't see any need for this to happen yet (maybe it'll be explained later) - if she, an old-fashioned changeling, was able to love and be loved and receive nourishment from it, why pull the plug on the entire thing that made Chrysalis such a compelling and sympathetic villain?

In adopting Anonymous Pegasus' fanon for the purposes of the story, I'm adopting his explanation of how changeling love-eating works. I had to create an explanation for why A.P.'s side effect (the pony being fed from eventually becomes gaunt, weak, and suicidal even if the love is given freely) no longer applies and the Elements of Harmony are the most glorious deus ex machina ever--and I'm not the one who came up with them, so I feel no shame.

You mention that Verde and Astra are family - how? Is she half zebra, or...what?

This is covered in all over the various chapters but to summarize, they're cousins but not by blood. Astra's pony mother is Verde's aunt but their mothers have no blood relation; they adopted one another, and a third mare named Silver Rose, as sisters and everyone thinks of them as such.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but... couldn't she already do that?

When she looked like Cadance, she sounded like Cadance; when she looked like herself, she sounded like herself. Here, I'm giving her the ability to precisely imitate voices without having to shapeshift into the pony they belong to. I didn't remember this being something she could do before.

I really do hope this whole thing isn't just people talking.

Well, seeing as this is a train ride across an open desert, there's not much else to do with them. So I give exposition.

Also it's "past."

Oh, OK. I've never been entirely clear on that point because I thought "past" referred only to the passage of time, not the movement of two objects in relation to one another, or one object in relation to a stationary object.

Okay, how the fuck does this family work?

Viridian Rain, Verde Tin's mother, is Pinkie Pie's second-in-command, the Undermare of Morale. Scarlet Knife, Astra's mother, is head of weapons R&D for the Ministry of Wartime Technology. Silver Rose, the aunt of both Astra and Verde and the sister-by-mutual-adoption of Viridian Rain and Scarlet Knife, is a highly-placed official in the Ministry of Peace. Eventually, this is all revealed by the story (part of it is revealed in future chapters that I have planned) but since you asked... does that help?

Exactly why I worship Akatosh and the Nine Eight Divines.

What about Merida? She's awesome, and she gives you this kickass sword for helping her out. And the batshit crazy one gives you a batshit crazy staff. And the creepy one in the house gives you a mace that eats souls. And the tentacle monster makes you totally raw by giving you general upgrades to your awesome with a book. And Namira gives you a ring that increase your awesome (and lets you be more awesome if you eat your dead enemies). And Sanguine gives you a staff to apologize for you waking up from a drunken escapade saying "what the fuck?" And Nocturne is hot and gives you a cool spell ability. And Methrune Dagon gets his traitor on and gives you a dagger which OHKs for the win. And the one that's all about treason and betrayal gives you armor that upgrades your invulnerability. And the other give you stuff of varying degrees of win and awesome.

So why Akatosh and the Eight Divines? They don't give you awesome toys. I like the daedra lords because they give me stuff.

692952 Hmm. Well regardless of who came up with it, I personally find that whole Chrysalis aftermath and redemption stuff to be complete and utter bullshit. So there's no fixing that. Not sure on the whole Past Sins thing either, but since I still haven't had the whole thing explained to me, all I can really say is it sounds copiously boring. But really... those are the only real problems. I hate the source material you're pulling from and its interpretation of Equestria. Doesn't necessarily mean the story's going to fail; it's still got strong characters and appears to be moving in a direction I like. Provided Chrys and her annoyingly plot-hole-ridden backstory don't come around to center stage in this piece... I'm still interested.

My Akatosh thing was more of a joke - I wasn't expecting you to be so familiar with the games that I could throw an honest and specific reference in. Plus, I've used the Elder Scrolls in religious debates before, so I'm conditioned to pull out the Nine whenever religion is discussed. I also disagree with some aspects of them - they were basically cobbled together from existing Nordic and Elven mythology and basically renamed versions of gods from past "religions," so even though they do exist it's questionable if you're actually worshipping Akatosh or Ysmir, or what deity gets what prayer. If I was actually in the Elder Scrolls universe, I would probably be in a cult devoted to Hermaeus Mora, or Peryite (though I confess only because Spellbreaker is best shield). Can't wait until I have time to play the Dragonborn DLC because Hermaeus Mora is best daedra and this pack focuses on him extensively. Also Sheogorath, for just being an all-around badass and having perhaps the coolest plane of Oblivion (with the possible exception of HM's Apocrypha - another reason I desperately want Dragonborn). Nocturnal is sexiest daedric prince, I'll give you that. And I do like the idea of how she operates and deals with the souls she gets. Same as Hircine. Truly, if I was in either of those guilds (Thieves/Companions) and they said "time to give your soul to Hircine/Nocturnal," I'd have no problem with it. Although, to be fair, Sovngarde is pretty fucking cool.

693041

Provided Chrys and her annoyingly plot-hole-ridden backstory don't come around to center stage in this piece... I'm still interested.

It won't; it's just background flavor. Chrysalis is in the story for the amount of win she adds by being her. Honestly, I did all of that out of a sense of polite obligation. If I'm going to take Chrysalis as she was presented with what is actually a well-written bittersweet story, I feel that I ought to at least give a nod to the author's world. Still, your argument for traveling further away and creating a more satisfying backstory for how she went from taking-over-Equestria to trusted with a vital part of Equestria's defenses is very compelling. I'm sorely tempted by it, especially after I invented my own changeling backstory for "Game of Worlds".

Incidentally, I'm sorry for making her more pony than you'd like; I made a judgement call that extremely long-term feeding off of love from one specific pony would have secondary effects like making a changeling gradually be altered to look more like said pony. Also, I tend to think a not-as-jagged horn is mildly more convenient.

I'm suddenly feeling that this is turning into a giant lesson about the merits of DIY over borrowing heavily...

Can't wait until I have time to play the Dragonborn DLC because Hermaeus Mora is best daedra and this pack focuses on him extensively.

Returning to the basic world of Morrowind with my badass turned all the way up to 11 (fully augmented dragonbone armor, double-enchanted dragonbone sword, double-enchanted bow, double-enchanted crossbow, shit ton of skill-aug) is fun as hell. :D I think I may have gotten Spellbreaker and stashed it in favor of my dragonbone shield tho...

Nocturnal is sexiest daedric prince, I'll give you that.

Yanno, the way they call both male and female daedra "princes" reminds me of a young-adult series I read in which both male and female dragon monarchs were called "king". That book series is the only other place I've ever seen where the title remains masculine no matter the gender.

Truly, if I was in either of those guilds (Thieves/Companions) and they said "time to give your soul to Hircine/Nocturnal," I'd have no problem with it.

I totally gave my soul to Nocturne; unfortunately, she wasn't interested in anything else I would have offered her. I really rushed to get rid of the werewolf thing, though, because it was highly inconvenient and annoying for me from a gameplay perspective. *makes sweet, sweet love to my ranged weapons--which can't be used in werewolf mode*

I'm suddenly feeling that this is turning into a giant lesson about the merits of DIY over borrowing heavily...

I just hate that whole backstory you decribed. Like, on par with Pinkie Pie right there. It just has so many thousands of things I find wrong with it, and essentially resolves to something that totally doesn't even need Evergreen to exist at all. Take a page from my argument, your argument, and a character in this story's argument - I hate when things are described as "just the Elements being the Elements." Adding side-effects and contaminating the commands issued to them in a manner not unlike a nerfed monkey's paw, THAT is cool. I did a similar thing in my story - Nightmare Moon uses the Elements to write a spell which replicates sunlight so plants can grow in the endless night she creates, but in doing so (since the spell was created by the Elements) she allows the unicorns using the spell a tiny fraction of control over the Elements. Kind of like buying a tractor to plow your fields and then hiring someone to run it; they may be at the controls and their time and energy gets invested, but the tractor is the object doing all the work. And if they suddenly decide "hey, I really don't like you, I'm going to drive this tractor through the wall of your house and run over your television with it," then...they can. And they do, in my story.

The difference is, the Elements were told "write a spell that emulates sunlight." They then did this. There was a side-effect which eventually fucked NMM up the bumhole, but they did originally do what they were told. If Chrysalis is exposed and Celestia/Mane 6 tell the elements "destroy her," then... they're going to do so. They banished NMM to the moon - but let her come back after 1,000 years. They put Discord in a stone - but that enchantment broke once the caster was cut from the Elements. They wrote a sun-spell - which outsourced a fraction of their power to those who cast it. So they kill Chrysalis - [insert side effect here], but that still leaves Chrysalis dead.

Again, I just really hate the backstory because I find it full of holes. Maybe in the original work it made sense and worked okay, but... I really hate how it's put to use here. I think you'd be much better off writing something of your own creation which isn't so convoluted and pointless.

That book series is the only other place I've ever seen where the title remains masculine no matter the gender.

Fun Fact from the Cartwright Encyclopedia of Bullshit Hypergeek Knowledge: Daedric princes are neither male nor female. They are genderless beings who exist above mortals, and their perceived gender is just what they choose to manifest as most of the time. If somebody made a mod swapping Nocturnal in her Thieves Guild scenes for Sanguine or Sheogorath, you couldn't techically say it's lore-breaking because they can manifest themselves however they choose. They could even manifest as giant hermaphrodite were-foxes who fire lasers from their eyes if they wanted to. Pretty neat stuff.

Ch 4 - MOAR TALKING!!!!! Fucking damn, dude, there's a LOT of background exposition here, to the absolute exclusion of everything else. Granted, some stuff finally happens here, and I'll address that in a separate comment because (as usual) I'm doing this over a period where I don't have an overabundance of time. But... Christ, dude, it takes four and a half chapters before a single goddamn thing actually takes place in this story. 20,000 words to test a shield, get on a train, explain the situation to Chrysalis, get on another train, and realize that the zebras are invading. Give us something exciting that happens somewhere in this story, because...to be honest... I lost just about every ounce of interest I had in this thing when they get off the train, say "holy shit, the zebras are seriously invading. We are literally under attack right goddamn now, and action scenes are on the horizon!" and then launch headfirst without a single thought of hesitation into ANOTHER GODDAMN THOUSAND-WORD EXPOSITION CONVERSATION ABOUT THE WAR. I'm really...just...exhausted at this point. "We're black ops! We blow stuff up and crawl through the mud!" "The first chapter had a whole building explode - there IS going to be action in this story somewhere!" "They blew the switch with an IED and are trying to invade the Barrens, right now!"

"So, wanna talk about my backstory some more?"

I understand you have to establish the world. I understand you think it's awesome and exciting to launch into these lengthy talky bits - and I do like them for what they are. But SOMEWHERE we need to actually see these characters DOING something for once. You NEEEEEEED some vague semblance of balance in this thing.

The worst part is, I can't even really offer much advice, because...the way you've written this story makes it almost impossible to add in scenes. I guess I can advice you just start slashing the absolute fuck out of these talking sections, and either save the things they talk about for later or (preferably) just axe the bastards entirely. You said Chrysalis's backstory is irrelevant to the story. Why's it here, then? I'm sure there's other stuff which doesn't really contribute much of anything to the eventual plot arc but yet inexplicably finds itself taking up thousands of words of exposition and talking. Why.

Ugh. I'm just frustrated. I can see such potential for awesomeness in this story, and I keep saying "next chapter, it'll pick up; this one pretty much had to be all talking, so I understand why you did that" over and over and over, and sure enough the next chapter is just more rambling bullshit. Why does Chrysalis ask THEM for war news if she's the spymaster? Why do they have intricate tactical knowledge of the zebras, yet have to rely on Chrysalis to explain why they'd conquer a city in a war (because, you know, everybody knows you don't conquer cities in a war!)? WHY is all this in here, and why the metric fuck should any of us care?

Sorry. I'm venting pent-up rage at a whole bunch of things. I hope I don't hurt your feelings too much. It's still a good story, as evidenced by the fact that I'm still reading it. I just find myself really struggling to not just give up and start scrolling until something actually fucking happens for once.

Couple other things.

Uncle Zoast

Two things. One, if Zen hates her zebra family, why did she get so upset earlier when he was in danger of being ripped open by Pinkie? I get it, he's family, even if she doesn't like him...he's still her father. But...what? She openly seems to hate her father, so letting him get opened up by Morale doesn't seem like something this version of Zen would overly object to. It's kind of confusing.

Second, is this a reference to Zoroaster? The name kind of reminds me of it. If so, then that's something we share - including obscure references to Zoroaster/Zarathustra in our writing. Props, if that's what you're going for.

It’s like… love mixed with… I don’t know.”
Astra eyed Chrysalis. “Mixed with… devotion? Hate? Like, what you’d imagine religious fanaticism would taste like?”

This, I like. Gotta love the religious commentary going on in this story, despite my other problems with it.

I want to actually read the actiony bit in the second half of this chapter in really good depth before I comment on it. I'll get back to you ASAP.

693113 Should have probably replied to your comment last time so you'd actually notice my response. Which was rather shouty. Sorry if I offended you. But I stand by what I said. If you're going to tease us by saying "THE ZEBRAS ARE INVADING RIGHT NOW" and then this shows up:

“Yes, dear,” Verde replied sweetly. “By the way, since we’re speaking of family Chrysalis, did you have any?”
[COMMENCE EXPOSITION]

It kind of makes me want to kick you in the dick.

That said, once you finally take the advice of all those fine people, the action scene (relatively speaking; it's still not a battle or anything, and even this is mostly dominated by talking, but Jesus Fuck am I glad somepony finally gets shot, and something actually finally happens in this story...) is pretty awesome. I love badass moments like this, especially when Chrysalis is involved. It almost makes the memory of all that exposition hurt even more, because THIS is the sort of thing you're obviously capable of and should be making greater use of.

I mean... I really don't have much beyond praise to say about this scene. Chrysalis issuing commands from a weakened position, then actually backing it up with force and turning the tables like the true ultra-badass she is. The officer breaking her cloak field and proud of her cause even though she's been defeated. So much win. It's just a horrible shame that we had to sit through 20,000 words of bullshit and rambling uselessness in order to get here.

Really the only thing I can even think of pointing out as "bad" is that I see a potential for some proper religious mindfuckery you don't take much advantage of. It seems like the zebras, being proper religious nuts as you portray them to be, wouldn't really be able to fathom how Astra is voluntarily going against "her own people." I personally would have put a few more lines of back-and-forth there to the effect of "You [Chrysalis] take one of my people as a slave, and have it recite your blasphemous propaganda for you? The ways of Equestria are more monstrous than I imagined. Blah blah look at me I'm a religious nut."
"No, I have free will, you whore. Don't call me one of your people. I hate you people because you snuck into my house and hid the remote. Seriously, global thermonuclear armageddon is one thing, but... have you no dignity??"
"Brainwashing? Well I've half a mind to bring this up before the authorities, I have! I'll call the Bureau of Lengthy and Utterly Pointless and in No Way Related to the Plot Whatsoever Exposition on you!"
"NO!" [headshot]

I got carried away a little bit there, but maybe you get the idea. Having Astra just kind of say "nope I'm an Equestrian" and then they all just shrug it off for the most part... it seemed like you were missing an opportunity to provide exposition into the zebra mentality... in a way that doesn't require a five-hour train journey and debates over whose family makes the best cookies.

But seriously. If the first part of this chapter made me lose all interest in reading any more of the story (it damn near did), the back half made up for it. This is good stuff.

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Maybe in the original work it made sense and worked okay, but... I really hate how it's put to use here. I think you'd be much better off writing something of your own creation which isn't so convoluted and pointless.

It works in the original work because it's a background event; the real important things happened before and after so it's merely a convenient device to get from point A to point B.

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I understand you have to establish the world. I understand you think it's awesome and exciting to launch into these lengthy talky bits - and I do like them for what they are. But SOMEWHERE we need to actually see these characters DOING something for once. You NEEEEEEED some vague semblance of balance in this thing.

What kinds of things qualify as "doing something" for you? What sort of things would you like to see the characters be doing? Because for me, expositing qualifies as "doing something" although it's painfully boring for you.

The worst part is, I can't even really offer much advice, because...the way you've written this story makes it almost impossible to add in scenes.

When I fuck up, I fuck up with some real style.

Why's it here, then? I'm sure there's other stuff which doesn't really contribute much of anything to the eventual plot arc but yet inexplicably finds itself taking up thousands of words of exposition and talking. Why.

Because I'm an extremely exposition-heavy writer by nature. I love babbling about my world, and the situation is perfect for that: you have two ponies diverted off the war to do something sort of mundane that may actually have a major effect on the war. By its nature, this is going to be a slow and dull thing. For the most part, the Manhattan Project was a very dull process that led to "I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds"; this segment of the story is more or less back-to-back Manhattan Projects with ponies, backstory, and lots of running around. Until there's an invasion. Which, as I'm reading your comments, is probably also going to bore the shit out of you. >.< Because there's jack two ponies and Chrysalis can do about an invading army, no matter how awesome Chrysalis is. I do toss in an artillery battle between a monitor and a shore battery, though.

Why does Chrysalis ask THEM for war news if she's the spymaster?

Because a spymaster's job is only to see the trees, so she's asking about the forest.

Why do they have intricate tactical knowledge of the zebras, yet have to rely on Chrysalis to explain why they'd conquer a city in a war (because, you know, everybody knows you don't conquer cities in a war!)?

That's not what was going on. They were surprised that the zebras, who are implied to be less numerous and rely greatly on stealth and agility, would enter into a battle where they're essentially stationary. Chrysalis is pointing out that battling for a city actually makes sense for them because the confined spaces allow small numbers to have a much greater effect. They know why the zebras would want to conquer a city, they just aren't sure why they risked so much for just one city. This is here to put down a marker; why the zebras wanted Stalliongrad specifically is a minor plot point for later.

One, if Zen hates her zebra family, why did she get so upset earlier when he was in danger of being ripped open by Pinkie? I get it, he's family, even if she doesn't like him...he's still her father. But...what? She openly seems to hate her father, so letting him get opened up by Morale doesn't seem like something this version of Zen would overly object to.

You got it in one: she despises her father and his side of the family but he's still her father. As much as she hates it. she wears a vivid reminder of who her father is wherever she goes. That, and the threat to her father is representative of the threat Morale poses to all zebra citizens of Equestria.

Second, is this a reference to Zoroaster?

Not deliberately. I was wandering around looking for a name that started with 'z' that was sort of exotic-sounding and ran across Zoroaster. I wasn't really aware of who Zoroaster is, just that the name sounded cool.

This, I like. Gotta love the religious commentary going on in this story, despite my other problems with it.

It's bound to keep coming up considering that its the sole reason for the war continuing: the zebra religion holds that the stars themselves are evil and they regard Nightmare Moon as a representative of the stars--and make no distinction between her and Luna. So essentially, they're at war to bring down an evil Princess... when neither Luna nor Nightmare are the least bit evil. Moreover, this would be readily apparent to anyone who'd ever met either one but like any fanatic, they operate in a state of willful ignorance and indifference to the true facts.

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Really the only thing I can even think of pointing out as "bad" is that I see a potential for some proper religious mindfuckery you don't take much advantage of. It seems like the zebras, being proper religious nuts as you portray them to be, wouldn't really be able to fathom how Astra is voluntarily going against "her own people." I personally would have put a few more lines of back-and-forth there to the effect of "You [Chrysalis] take one of my people as a slave, and have it recite your blasphemous propaganda for you? The ways of Equestria are more monstrous than I imagined. Blah blah look at me I'm a religious nut."
"No, I have free will, you whore. Don't call me one of your people. I hate you people because you snuck into my house and hid the remote. Seriously, global thermonuclear armageddon is one thing, but... have you no dignity??"
"Brainwashing? Well I've half a mind to bring this up before the authorities, I have! I'll call the Bureau of Lengthy and Utterly Pointless and in No Way Related to the Plot Whatsoever Exposition on you!"
"NO!" [headshot]
I got carried away a little bit there, but maybe you get the idea. Having Astra just kind of say "nope I'm an Equestrian" and then they all just shrug it off for the most part... it seemed like you were missing an opportunity to provide exposition into the zebra mentality... in a way that doesn't require a five-hour train journey and debates over whose family makes the best cookies.

I felt compelled to quote this in full because of the awesome and funny. ^_^ That's advice I'll seriously take into account because I myself thought there should be more to the scene than they meet zebras, talk to zebras, and then shoot zebras.

But seriously. If the first part of this chapter made me lose all interest in reading any more of the story (it damn near did), the back half made up for it. This is good stuff.

Well, thanks. :) I wish I could think of a good solution to that forward half and all the other expostiion that's driving you totally batshit.

699852 I'm not going to get into a lengthy argument on the finer points of who's asking what right now. I still take issue with a spymaster having to ask for war news. She literally has no idea what cities are being held by what side, and that... that's incredibly jarring to me. Couple other things that also sound out of character and incredibly forced, but... fuck it, there's a bigger issue to talk about here.

But first, this.

You got it in one: she despises her father and his side of the family but he's still her father. As much as she hates it. she wears a vivid reminder of who her father is wherever she goes. That, and the threat to her father is representative of the threat Morale poses to all zebra citizens of Equestria.

All she does in that scene is damn him and say he's useless, though. I get the impression she'd kill him herself if she had the chance. I don't get why she'd sort of defend him in the earlier chapter. It's mostly a minor thing, which I only started bitching about because of all the other shit that was going on. I needed specifics, but since most of it was so boring I fell asleep this was about all I could remember.

What kinds of things qualify as "doing something" for you?

I'm an extremely exposition-heavy writer by nature. I love babbling about my world

You're going to have a damn hard time getting readers if ALL YOU DO for 20,000 words is babble about the world and what it looks like. There's battle scenes we hear summarized! We could be there for those. we hear about special ops missions the characters have been on. We never see them. It's just
"Here, I'm going to share this long story about my backstory and stuff. Intricate detail, a truckload of plot holes and Elemental bullshitfuckery, and essentially resolving to something that could have been summarized, with no loss of effect, in about two sentences."
"Will any of that ever come back to impact the plot in any significant way whatsoever?"
"Nope."
"Well, then. How about *I* share a bullshit story of no importance?"
"I'd be saddened if you didn't."
"I get dibs on next bullshit story after her!"
"Then me!"
"Settle down, girls, this story will drain plenty of time out of its readers' lives for ALL of you to share all the bullshit you want! In fact, go get Droso in here, and have him bring like six random changelings. I want to ask them about the life story of their pet goldfish."

Now, that's not to say we don't have any interest in the talking sections whatsoever. But... balance! Something OTHER than explaining the history and world setting. This could be a battle scene. This could be somepony cracking under pressure and needing to be consoled by somepony else. This could be a flashback or cut to some other area of the world which is significant - if it were me, and I knew that the majority of my primary plot arc was going to be talking and diplomacy, I'd let the readers relax between talking scenes by jumping over to the front lines and creating some kind of story for a soldier/officer there to have. Ideally it'd eventually tie into the main plot somehow. Or, just pop out of dialogue, describe a scene firsthand (keeping 3rd person), and then go back. Sex scenes would qualify as something, though I've yet to see a place where one should go. Really, if they're talking about something other than history and actually advancing the plot, you're fine. Just stop spinning your wheels talking about bullshit and do something. This world is actually interesting, and there's things you've done here that poke holes in my hatred of the entire genre! But shut the fuck up about it unless it's significant!

I'll take an example of what I consider the story's strongest point yet and weakest point yet. The point where I said "this is so full of shit, if I wasn't editing for this I would put it down, unfavorite it, and actually probably even downvote the thing," and the point where I said "I'm glad I kept reading, because THIS is what the author is actually capable of." I've already mentioned them before. It's the first and second halves of chapter 4.

I'm going to quote some shit, and try (it's going to be hard) to take yourself out of the author position and actually read this as a story. Predict where it's gonna go.

“Deepest apologies Your Highness, madame Royal Guard, companions, but there’s a problem ahead,” the overhead PA blared in a way that somehow managed to be extremely polite, startling Verde out of her nap. “The diversion switch seems to have been damaged so we’ll be unable to switch tracks and take you all the way in to Hive Station. We are very sorry but it appears you’ll have to walk yourselves in.”
“Damaged switch? That’s… odd.”

someone with high-grade explosives got to it

They’re not defensible without a very large army and there’s no way to get one here

“They’ve industrialized their stealth technology?”
That brought Chrysalis up short and occasioned a frown. “Not… out of the realm of possibility,”

“Do either of you have a spare weapon?”

“Truth be told, it would be somewhat unusual for even soldiers to carry the sort of explosives they’d need to smash the switch. They’re typically enclosed in armored boxes to protect against heavy wind-blown debris and even balefire… wouldn’t…”
Chrysalis came to a halt, staring, and Verde quickly cast her magelight cantrip to see what the changeling was staring at. The switch was gone. In its place was a gaping crater that still smelled strongly of conventional high explosives despite the fact that it was clearly hours old.
“That… looks like a mortar shell hole,”

“Of course it would be here… Droso’s been telling me for years that if invasion came, it would be here…

I don't know about you, but I am seriously fucking pumped to watch a good battle scene right about now. I've been reading through lots and lots of exposition, some of it necessary and a lot of it pointless, and now, out of nowhere, I'm getting the awesome battle scene I wanted. But:

“By the way, since we’re speaking of family Chrysalis, did you have any?”

FUCK YOU AND ALL YOU STAND FOR.

Obviously I skipped pretty far ahead, but I didn't skip a battle scene. I skipped the bullshit exposition leading up to the bullshit exposition leading up to that line, which leads up to the most bullshit exposition YET, which then, FINALLY, leads into the battle scene. Never in a million years did I think the scene in which they leave a train that they know is going to come under attack soon and the scene in which they are actually attacked would be separated by several hundred or perhaps even a thousand words of conversation about Chrysalis's siblings. But, here we are.

Now, to be fair, talking about plans to make alicorns is important. That battle scene about Colthav is important. We should get to see those. But not here. Not when you just spent pages getting us teased and ready for battle, and now they're off the train and FUCKING TALKING ABOUT THE GODDAMN WAR AGAIN. SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SHOOT SOMETHING ALREADY, OR I'M ROOTING FOR THE ZEBRAS. Really, that line was the point where I gave up, scrolled down, saw that yes, zebras do in fact play a role in this story, and continued giving the story a chance. But had I not been trying to help you with this... I'd be downvoting just based on the fact that there's so little evidence you know how to properly pace a story... it's really sad when you can execute a scene as well as what I'm about to discuss in a moment.

How about axing Chrysalis's backstory conversation up above and replacing it with the one about her family? How about saving it for when/if they get to the hives themselves? How about talking about Colthav on the train, or at the dinner, or somewhere other than here? Move this fuckery around so it doesn't come between "we're about to battle" and "we are currently battling." God motherfucking damn it. The pacing of this story pisses me the fuck off so much I can't stand it.

Do I need to say any more about this? Can you at least TRY to meet me halfway on this, find some way of cutting out some backstory exposition or moving it around or doing SOMETHING with the story? I don't know your characters half as well as I know the world. They haven't done anything for me to judge them on, since all I've seen is talking about the war.

Now look at the scene I like, and specifically look at this:

I felt compelled to quote this in full because of the awesome and funny. ^_^ That's advice I'll seriously take into account because I myself thought there should be more to the scene than they meet zebras, talk to zebras, and then shoot zebras.

Well, if you like the way I put it and want to take it into account, then focus your attention on this little segment of my statement:

it seemed like you were missing an opportunity to provide exposition into the zebra mentality... in a way that doesn't require a five-hour train journey and debates over whose family makes the best cookies

In a way, this is a poor example, because I DO think that Astra should get at least one or perhaps two scenes before this "battle" where she explains her animosity towards her zebra origins. But I can't say that about many of the other things you have them talk about, so I'm still using this.

You've got a place here where, through action and things actually taking place, you can have Astra explain her hatred of zebras. Except having her argue with a zebra about whether or not she's brainwashed or a slave or whatever... that's infinitely more exciting than "so, on the subject of family, Astra, how's yours?" "Well, you see," she responded, taking a sip of tea, "my father was a zebra, but..."

It's full of emotion, it's an argument, we see both sides. We are hit from all directions by:
-zebra religious nutcase syndrome, refusing to believe ANY zebra could ever agree with ponies - ALL zebras are the enlightened race, after all.
-Astra's personal struggles with her family history and origins
-perhaps Verde's speaking on Astra's behalf, defending her and shouting at the zebras for insulting her cousin? Reinforcing the family bond between them?
-Chrysalis denying she's enslaved or brainwashed Astra, defending the honor of her race, perhaps saying something about (refuting) the possibility that Astra is a changeling in disguise?
-defense of Luna as benevolent, and argument with zebra ideals
-perhaps Chrysalis saying something about the taste of zebra love

And I could go on. All this crammed into one scene, which has all the power and impact of your multi-dozen-paragraph, thousands-of-fucking-word-spam, except with the added benefit of being:
-shorter
-more interesting
-directly related to the plot
-exciting and upbeat
-not 20,000 words of history lessons

Look for ways of doing that. We don't need to know the minute, tiny little details of every single thing that happens. If you can safely cut stuff down and burn an entire scene of straight talking in favor of letting all that stuff pop up in an actual scene... DO IT.

Still, like I said, I think at least Astra's backstory should get a straight discussion scene, but there's other stuff you can definitely cut. I'm not going to point at specific scenes because you've got your own reasons for wanting them there and anything I say you're going to argue against. I will point at moving Colthav and artificial alicorns elsewhere, and doing SOMETHING with Chrys's family, but the rest I'll leave up to you with the same thing I've said a billion times over: Don't just bullshit about the war for 20,000 words - nobody wants to read that shit. DO SOMETHING.

Never in a million years did I think the scene in which they leave a train that they know is going to come under attack soon and the scene in which they are actually attacked would be separated by several hundred or perhaps even a thousand words of conversation about Chrysalis's siblings. But, here we are.

The train was never going to come under attack. It just can't take them to Hive Station because the switch that would allow them to divert the train to the tracks leading to that station was blown up so the tracks are locked going in a totally different direction.

How about axing Chrysalis's backstory conversation up above and replacing it with the one about her family?

I shall now do precisely that.

How about saving it for when/if they get to the hives themselves?

There'll be... other things to do when they get there.

How about talking about Colthav on the train, or at the dinner, or somewhere other than here?

Seems like something to introduce after the "Chryssy's family" segment, yes?

God motherfucking damn it. The pacing of this story pisses me the fuck off so much I can't stand it.

That's why I asked you to help. I clearly need someone to yell at me a little and you're the first person I've been able to get to do that.

Do I need to say any more about this? Can you at least TRY to meet me halfway on this, find some way of cutting out some backstory exposition or moving it around or doing SOMETHING with the story?

I'd be a real asshole if I asked for your advice and then totally ignored it. I have every intention of trying to trim the fat, it's just a matter of figuring out how.

In a way, this is a poor example, because I DO think that Astra should get at least one or perhaps two scenes before this "battle" where she explains her animosity towards her zebra origins

I'll look into that. In the middle of explaining why it wouldn't work, I realized that there's some real possibilities. In fact, I should go and do those possibilities right the fuck now before I forget...

Don't just bullshit about the war for 20,000 words - nobody wants to read that shit. DO SOMETHING.

Bullshitting about the war is doing something. Besides, the amount of stuff directly related to how the war is going is so short that if that was all the exposition there was, you probably wouldn't be bothered by it.

..I suddenly and abruptly realized why the exposition bugs you so much. It's getting in the way of the cool stuff.

The train was never going to come under attack.

Picky, picky. They're prepping for war, but what passes for war doesn't come until after those three conversations. My point still stands even if I didn't exactly match specifics. You're impossible, you know that?

I clearly need someone to yell at me a little and you're the first person I've been able to get to do that.

So long as my rage serves a purpose, then it is good rage. And I hope you're laughing at at least some of it. I enjoy allowing myself to really flip a shit because most people find it funny.

Bullshitting about the war is doing something. Besides, the amount of stuff directly related to how the war is going is so short that if that was all the exposition there was, you probably wouldn't be bothered by it.

Again, you're nailing me on the specifics. Like I said, the actual war stuff is the stuff that needs kept. I just found it more convenient to say "bullshit about the war" instead of "bullshit about family history" and so I typed that some of the time. Also, in this specific case, bullshitting about the war IS a problem, though the problem's more in WHERE you do it rather than IF you do it. That Colthav scene's just misplaced, is all. One of the side effects of Ally Cartwright rage - sometimes I fuck up the specifics and mislead you. I'd hope you're intelligent enough to figure out the gist of what I meant by it. The REAL problem I have with this chapter is the fucking "do you have any family, Chrysalis? Now's a good time to talk about it, seeing as a horde of zebras just blew the fuck out of a rail switch and are probably coming to snipe us right now!" War expo, when you do it directly, is usually good expo. It was nice interrupting that scene in the first chapter with Stalliongrad news. The description of Colthav is pretty awesome, and the whole time I was reading it I was like "this is horribly placed and has no business going here, but at least it's entertaining for once!" So yeah, war stuff is good stuff. The story's ABOUT the war. It should have war stuff in it.

But, that said, it should have war stuff. Meaning it shouldn't all be talking and diplomacy. War stuff also includes fighting, emotional stuff, and dying stuff. And ideological stuff. Not just family history stuff. And certainly not family history stuff BEFORE fighting stuff, when we'd already been promised fighting stuff before.

..I suddenly and abruptly realized why the exposition bugs you so much. It's getting in the way of the cool stuff.

Only took me pretty much directly saying exactly that...five(?) times, eh? You catch on quickly.

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701872

This post will probably serve 0.000001% of help to your story, but first, I want to get this out of the way.

This thread is fucking hilarious, probably the funniest in the forum. 59caddyel ranting about your story, no offence, sounds like the Nostalgia Critic flipping out about a Bat Credit card. Made my day.

I did begin writing a long, in-depth explanation on pacing, but hey, 59caddyel finally got the point across, so no point for an echo. Instead, I'll just link a video to the pacing curve, and you can check it out yourself.

Handy Dandy Video Link

Just a quick summary of the video, use the pacing curve EVERYWHERE in your story. Here's a short list to help you keep track.

1. Kick off an amazing action or dramatic scene, capturing the reader's attention and forcing them to want to read more of your story.

2. Slow things down with some exposition. Set the stage, describe the characters, all that good stuff.

3. A spike in intensity and drama draws the reader back to your story, keeping their attention instead of becoming bored with the details of the world.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3, with each peak and valley always higher and more dramatic than the one before it, until you reach the climax.

By splitting exposition with action scenes, you maintain your reader's attention instead of having them believe they're reading a history book than an exciting fan fiction. It's simply a matter of alternating between describing and action. Unfortunately, not everyone enjoys hearing about an entire world for 20,000 words straight with no action. They want to see some action! They want violence, some adrenaline pumping! Not someone's backstory all of the time.

Just a side note, but also you can apply the pacing curve to individual scenes and action.

For scenes, perhaps you hear a scream within a building, and you're scrambling to search for the person inside. It starts with an exciting beginning that intrigues you, then the fluctuation as you run into empty room after empty room, while still hearing muffled cries of help or banging perhaps. The climax then hits when you find the person, bleeding, choked, and held at gunpoint perhaps. Because you're super-awesome leet, you kill the person that's holding him/her at gunpoint, then reaches the resolution as you discover why she ended up like that.

Actions themselves can also take this curve. Take the drawing of a gun, straight from the video. You draw the gun, the exciting beginning taking place as the weapon clicks as it's released from the holster. The reader now knows shit's about to go down. The gun then raises in place as it's aimed down the sights, the action dying down as you take a breath in. The climax then hits when the trigger is pulled, with the resolution blowing the smoke from the barrel.

Pretty much it. I hope it helps!

Only took me pretty much directly saying exactly that...five(?) times, eh? You catch on quickly.

Actually, I believe you've mentioned something about too much exposition, too little action scenes, bad pacing, at least... once every paragraph of text you wrote.

702208 Actually, that's a major help. Someone to provide the same thing I was trying to say except from a neutral, non-rage-fueled, helpful perspective. Thanks much.

Glad my rage is good for something. I usually try to make it funny, so people can kind of join in the rant about their own story rather than just making them feel bad about themselves. At least, that's what I go for. If it ever gets too harsh, DualThrone...lemme know and I'll try and dial it back. Although considering we met and became friends through an argument where both of us were trying to hurt the other (or I was, anyway)... I think you can probably handle and even benefit from my worst. And that earns you many respects in my book.

702215

Actually, that's a major help. Someone to provide the same thing I was trying to say except from a neutral, non-rage-fueled, helpful perspective. Thanks much.

Oh, no problem. It was an excuse to procrastinate my Algebra 2 homework, so that isn't too bad.

Glad my rage is good for something. I usually try to make it funny, so people can kind of join in the rant about their own story rather than just making them feel bad about themselves.

I can see your point. It's a lot easier judging something from a critic's viewpoint rather than reviewing something that you created. Also, it gets pretty hilarious at times, so that's always a bonus

At least, that's what I go for. If it ever gets too harsh, DualThrone...lemme know and I'll try and dial it back. Although considering we met and became friends through an argument where both of us were trying to hurt the other (or I was, anyway)... I think you can probably handle and even benefit from my worst. And that earns you many respects in my book.

Always good to remember about words: They're just that, words. They only hurt you as much as you allow them to. I have heard my share of terrible critic reviews that put off authors for years, and perhaps, sometime's is justified.

But those that can look past their pain, that frustration and take something constructive from the experience (as cliche as it sounds), those are the ones who would really succeed.

702069

Picky, picky. They're prepping for war, but what passes for war doesn't come until after those three conversations. My point still stands even if I didn't exactly match specifics. You're impossible, you know that?

I wasn't trying to be. I thought that you'd gotten the impression that the train was being attacked and wanted to correct that.

And I hope you're laughing at at least some of it. I enjoy allowing myself to really flip a shit because most people find it funny.

It can be, but I'm not laughing at it because it's the packaging the useful advice is coming in.

But, that said, it should have war stuff. Meaning it shouldn't all be talking and diplomacy. War stuff also includes fighting, emotional stuff, and dying stuff. And ideological stuff. Not just family history stuff. And certainly not family history stuff BEFORE fighting stuff, when we'd already been promised fighting stuff before.

It's a big story despite the limited time frame it happens in. The first glimpse of real serious war stuff comes in the in-progress Chapter 6 with a gun duel between a coastal battery and an Equestrian monitor (think the U.S.S. Monitor from the American Civil War, but with more and better guns). And it'll have some ideological stuff too. And per your raging, I'm running through the original document and seeing what family history stuff I can ax easily... and I'm using your comments as a guideline as I go.

Only took me pretty much directly saying exactly that...five(?) times, eh? You catch on quickly.

There's a difference between understanding it and getting it. Until I stated out loud that my fic about a war going on doesn't talk much about the war going on, I didn't really and truly get what the problem was. Now I do.

702215 I'll just say that compared to a long-time very good friend, your most angry frothing-at-the-mouth rage is small potatoes. When you're in the middle of a live text chat and so enraged that you've grabbed a chair and started breaking things with it, then you're raging like a pro. And yes, this friend does precisely that from time to time, usually in minor arguments with me.

701872 Finally done! That only took an astrological age!

Anyway, this was a seriously good chapter. Once again, it's a lot of talking and junk, but this presentation actually makes things more interesting than before. The introduction of a new character who's interesting and compelling, people do stuff, there's a pseudo-sex scene. I love scenes where people are doing something romantic while occupied with serious conversation, and/or doing other stuff in the background. I'm vaguely reminded of one of my favorite scenes in all of video gaming:

I caution you somewhat, because I said the same thing in chapter one - "these characters are interesting, so just having them talk is good enough to drive the plot for now." Fast forward a little bit and I'm spitting plasma at you because of how catastrophically boring you've made the narrative by essentially doing the same thing over and over and over. At least most of the talking directly relates to the story this time - there's a couple lines about Pinkie Sense I was millimeters away from raising hell over, but mercifully that's cut short by the lead-up to battle.

Still, this goes in my "more like this!" pile rather than my "stop doing this bullshit!" pile. But when you write further chapters (after a hefty revision of the existing stuff, plz), DO NOT, under any circumstances, have them follow up this teaser for battle by continuing their discussion about Pinkie Sense. They need to fight shit. Soon. We've tasted blood. Pinkie Sense doesn't matter, even if it directly relates to the plot. Shove that fuckery somewhere else.

Um... I don't have much else to say about it. I already said what an idea chapter format would be like and explained the whys and hows, and... you've done the proper thing here.

Oh, I can think of one more - why can't Chrysalis fly? She can fly in her normal body, right? I could understand if changelings were non-magical, and shifting into a unicorn didn't grant them magic because the horn was purely decorative and had no magical capabilities, but... wings are just mechanical/biological constructs that work because of science and physics. There's no reason for them to just... not work. Fire breathing, absolutely, that wouldn't work for her. But flying? Hell, I'd even argue that she should be able to shift into proper dragon scales, but... I'll not nitpick too much because these are just things I dislike about your world.

Speaking of which, I'll write up a technomancy rant. Not right now, but soon.

702208 I appreciate your effort and the expertise of this video but a formulaic approach is totally unworkable for me. And I'll add that I don't have the slightest notion of how to artificially create the spikes and valleys they're describing.

702798

I appreciate your effort and the expertise of this video but a formulaic approach is totally unworkable for me.

I can see your point. Something as full-scale and developed like this would take some major reworking to conform to the falling and rising action (and something that you may not want to do).

It's simply one approach for writing a story, in a universe full of millions.

And I'll add that I don't have the slightest notion of how to artificially create the spikes and valleys they're describing.

Simply put, it's just an alternation between action and exposition. Excitment and drama to bring up the tension followed by periods of rest and explanation.

702783

But when you write further chapters (after a hefty revision of the existing stuff, plz), DO NOT, under any circumstances, have them follow up this teaser for battle by continuing their discussion about Pinkie Sense. They need to fight shit. Soon. We've tasted blood. Pinkie Sense doesn't matter, even if it directly relates to the plot. Shove that fuckery somewhere else.

Next chapter = monitor and shore battery shooting at each other. And they decide that hey, what if we got together and cleaned the zebras out of the shore battery so the monitor can come close and fuck their shit up? So no headfake this time.

Oh, I can think of one more - why can't Chrysalis fly? She can fly in her normal body, right? I could understand if changelings were non-magical, and shifting into a unicorn didn't grant them magic because the horn was purely decorative and had no magical capabilities, but... wings are just mechanical/biological constructs that work because of science and physics. There's no reason for them to just... not work

They work just fine. It's just that Chrysalis normally flies by beating her wings rapidly, like an insect would. She can even manage pegasus flight because her aerodynamics, weight, and body are still quite similar to her normal form. But a dragon is dimensionally very different, it wings work differently, it has a long snaking tail that needs to be accounted for, and its aerodynamics are very different. If she found an actual dragon and learned from them, she could fly just fine but at the moment, she has all the equipment without a knowledge of how to use it. A pilot who flies a dinky crop duster would at least need some education before they were handed a Boeing 747.

But when you write further chapters (after a hefty revision of the existing stuff, plz)

I've revised Chapter One a bit (I can't find a way to move the changeling bits out of it, though; they just fit too naturally into the conversation) and Chapter Two now has some of Astra expressing her dislike of being half-zebra, although I kept it short and just laid down a marker for things that will come up later. Chapter Three is next on the block.

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Something as full-scale and developed like this would take some major reworking to conform to the falling and rising action (and something that you may not want to do).

It's not a matter of wanting or not wanting; I couldn't do it even if I was starting with a blank slate. Stories just don't flow that way for me

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Until I stated out loud that my fic about a war going on doesn't talk much about the war going on, I didn't really and truly get what the problem was. Now I do.

Don't you hate that? Realizing the work you're defending actually has problems, whether it's a fanfic story you wrote or a childhood favorite movie... that hurts almost as much as the moment when you're arguing about something really passionately and you suddenly realize that you are wrong. God, does that sting like a bitch.

A pilot who flies a dinky crop duster would at least need some education before they were handed a Boeing 747.

This actually makes sense. This would be something interesting to talk about. This sort of exposition is good sort of exposition because it's interesting and it's answering a question we have. When we read this story, we DO ask the question "wait, why can't you fly?" but we DON'T ask the question "what's your entire life story and that of your family?" - so answer the right questions with exposition.

Stories just don't flow that way for me

Rise-fall, rise-fall. Blow something up, back off. Blow something bigger up in a more spectacular fashion, back off. Slowly build to a climax.

This is the format everybody uses in some way or another, at least when you want people to stay interested. You don't have to follow it exactly, but putting in this story at least some evidence that you have a vague awareness that pacing does indeed exist is going to be crucial. Look it over again and measure excitement. The war stuff - Colthav, Stalliongrad - those are exciting even though they're exposition. A character ranting and raving about zebra heritage or Pinkie Pie or... whatever... that's exciting. "Do you have any family, Chrysalis?" is NOT.

Something to keep in mind, at least.

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This actually makes sense. This would be something interesting to talk about. This sort of exposition is good sort of exposition because it's interesting and it's answering a question we have. When we read this story, we DO ask the question "wait, why can't you fly?" but we DON'T ask the question "what's your entire life story and that of your family?" - so answer the right questions with exposition

Having laid down the marker in Chapter Two, I don't feel able to not talk about how Chrysalis went from the invader of Canterlot to a trusted noble in the court of the Dual Thrones. It's still there, but truncated (I surgically removed 1/3 of it) and is interrupted by Astra going off about her father. I'm about to transition the narrative into Colthav; the real question is whether to make it a flashback (which will give the audience some combat jollies for free) or just a more in-depth discussion about the war generally. And when Chryssy goes dragon, I'll put in the discussion about why she can't fly.

The war stuff - Colthav, Stalliongrad - those are exciting even though they're exposition. A character ranting and raving about zebra heritage or Pinkie Pie or... whatever... that's exciting. "Do you have any family, Chrysalis?" is NOT.

Arguably, "Do you have any family Chrysalis?" would serve as an interesting valley in between the peaks but there's no real need for it, apart from giving Chryssy a touch of depth.

Something to keep in mind, at least.

And boy howdy, am I keeping it in mind... for which I thank you.

I'm not going to take a part in this

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704237 Sorry for late reply - didn't realize you'd actually said some stuff I want to respond to.

the real question is whether to make it a flashback (which will give the audience some combat jollies for free) or just a more in-depth discussion about the war generally. And when Chryssy goes dragon, I'll put in the discussion about why she can't fly.

That's entirely your call. I think the way you had it before is pretty cool. A flashback would only make sense if it was a realy super-significant thing, either to the overall plot arc or a subplot related to one/several of the characters. I think the original version was just fine; the placement of it was really the only thing I disliked. Re: Chrys flight description... YES. That would help bunches.

Arguably, "Do you have any family Chrysalis?" would serve as an interesting valley in between the peaks

Yes, but not where you put it. Between peaks, not "75% of the way up to a peak, we suddenly change gears and retreat back 17,000 feet towards sea level for no apparent reason, sit there for awhile, and then leap back up to the summit and expect the audience to still give a fuck." The build-up to the battle isn't one peak with the battle being another peak - they're part of the same event. The build-up is the slope rising upwards, and we expect it to eventually reach a peak. Imagine what you'd think if you spent days climbing Everest, and right as you were about to reach the summit you suddenly found yourself in rural Kansas. You'd be pissed the fuck off. And if, an hour later, you suddenly warped to the summit of Everest, you wouldn't really care anymore. That little detour to the flatlands ruined any sense of enjoyment you could have taken from cresting that peak naturally after building your way up to it.

Save Chrysalis's family for later, or get it out of the way earlier. Zen's going to talk about her family plenty, Verde's bringing hers up a little here and there... there's other places to put it than where you've got it now. But I've gone on about that more than enough.

I've been trying to come up with points to explain why I hate the idea of technomancy, but it all just keeps coming back to personal preference, I guess. In a setting like MLP where we're used to seeing a world which lacks advanced technology and then you suddenly impose some tech on it, I guess it actually does make sense. They've still got all their magic stuff, so they wouldn't just dump it all out the window. Just like humans try and exploit natural resources to do what we want, so might ponies exploit magic with technology. So for the purposes of this story, it's not distracting or anything and I can understand why it's done. Personally I think I still prefer just leaving things in the old ways and not getting all crazy about it, or (I have to address steampunk, since I'm writing one) have technology adapt along its own lines. You still use coal-fired steam boilers to power your airships and trains. You use weapons which fire gunpowder, and all the machines operate mechanically. Magic might be present in the same world, but I prefer they stay apart and don't intermingle with one another.

But that's just it - it's preference. Stories which add tech to an already magical world... I can grudgingly tolerate. Stories which add magic to a technological setting, or are created from scratch with the presence of both... I have to ask "why?"

Consider: why the hell would you take the time, as an author, to come up with a big intricate and hideously-complex shield projector (taking your example, though this isn't meant as an attack on you), explain that it has all these wires and tubes and crazy technological stuff, and then have the driving force powering it be "magic"? What, a nuclear reactor was too much of a leap for you? Computer programming isn't quite good enough to explain how it's controlled? You just HAD to go and stuff in magic runes. That kind of shit really pisses me off.

So, at least MLP technomancy is tolerable in my eyes. You're just saying "hey, ponies who can make this shield spell aren't numerous enough to protect the country, so we need to do it mechanically." That's... alright. It sets off some annoying thoughts, because just the whole idea of a giant machine powered by magic runes still pisses me off, but at least we're seeing characters develop technology to suit the natural world they live in - which just happens to include magic. So, yeah. I can't poke holes in technomancy like I can Pinkie's awfully-written character, because the only thing I can really point to about the genre is that I find it unnecessary. Pick a side of the fence - write a sci fi story, or write a fantasy story. Or, in this case, add science fiction elements to a fantasy setting, and do it responsibly. I kind of get it.

As for Fallout... the idea of ponies living in a wasteland, the idea of it being a sort of Fallout-inspired world... I really do like the concept. Fallout's one of my favorite game series, and there's definite potential in what can be done. BUT, a lot of things about it just rub me the wrong way. Not the least of these is how so many people just line themselves up to bow at its feet as the greatest achievement in modern literature, which I think is annoying for any story, no matter how good.

I think most of why I just have this utter apathy towards its existence is because I really can't make up my mind on whether I like it or hate it. The world's clearly technologically advanced - why don't they just use nukes? The fuck is "radiation" coming from if it's a magical attack? Once again, it just sounds like typical technomancy bullshit. I need to blow something up in a massive explosion, destroying an entire city in one shot, and it needs to leave behind radiation and contaminants for centuries. No, not a nuclear bomb, you idiot, that'd be too easy! This has to be magic So there, replacing one of the biggest and most important aspects of Fallout, the fucking nuclear weapons, is a slap to Fallout's face in my eyes. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND the world is a magical one, and so it makes sense that their technology would be based on magical power. If you told a pony "this thing can destroy an entire city," they'd say "it must have powerful magic," not "it must be a big fucking bomb." BUT ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND if the whole idea behind Fallout's setting is to take something idealistic and then smash it with something ugly, to kind of show that mankind can't be trusted with the technology that could destroy the world, then isn't that even more reason to have ponies build nukes and blow themselves up with them? BUT ON THE OTHER OTHER OTHER HAND nukes were the creation of man, and the undoing of man. Ponies are much more in tune with magic, so... wouldn't they just create really powerful magic?

It goes like this back and forth a bunch of different times. I'm caught between two worlds I really like, and rather than falling in love with the way they're meshed together I can't stand how magic and technology are being juxtaposed. It's bang-on true to Fallout canon one minute (Stable-Tec) and then fucking around in its own bastardized MLP world the next (megaspells) and then inventing entirely new stuff that doesn't make any sense, like the Ministry shit. The hell is that from? George Orwell? WHY. I just don't understand why some of these choices were made.

I remember I actually started reading it once... at the time I think it was still in development. I certainly admire an author willing to write 620,000 words on a single fiction, but... I just couldn't get into the thing. Maybe I'll try again over spring break, knock down a chapter or two a day and see if doing that actually gets me invested in what's going on. But as it stands, it's too true to Fallout in some areas and too distant in others, and the end result (as I understand it) is just... no.

Underground fallout shelters? Blue jumpsuits with yellow trim? A government-funded company which is the name of said fallout shelters with -Tec added on the end? A hidden science experiment going on the whole time, since the shelters weren't actually intended to save anyone in the first place? You're plagiarizing Fallout here, and I don't have a problem with that in itself. But then you totally change how the government works, turn resource competition into a holy war, swap the fucking nuclear bombs for magical spells, and... fuck everything else up.

But, again, I don't know if there's any way to really fix it. Part of me says "if you're going to rip off Fallout, rip off Fallout!" while the other half says "no, Fallout in an MLP skin is just going to be terrible. If you're not going to incorporate elements from both worlds, then don't bother with a crossover." Part of me thinks the Vaults should have been less of a Fallout clone, part of me thinks that anything other than blue jumpsuits with yellow trim is just a slap in the face of everything Fallout stands for.

So... I guess the only thing I can say for certain is there's things about FOE I like, things I absolutely hate, and things which I don't understand. I tried reading it once, couldn't get into it, and was left with an overwhelming feeling of apathy. Maybe I'll try again some day.

I still hate technomancy.

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That's entirely your call. I think the way you had it before is pretty cool. A flashback would only make sense if it was a realy super-significant thing, either to the overall plot arc or a subplot related to one/several of the characters. I think the original version was just fine; the placement of it was really the only thing I disliked.

Well, dagnabbit. I've now just spent lots of effort creating an 8-page flashback to replace most of the exposition and I log in to FimFiction to find that you actually recommend against it. >.< Story of my life.

Consider: why the hell would you take the time, as an author, to come up with a big intricate and hideously-complex shield projector (taking your example, though this isn't meant as an attack on you), explain that it has all these wires and tubes and crazy technological stuff, and then have the driving force powering it be "magic"?

Personally (although I know that you weren't criticizing me with this), my solution to the inherent questions was to use magic as a force that can be used like electricity but with different properties.The shield generator, for example, runs on electrical power, which is why it has things like fuses and breakers. This electrical power in turn used to be created by burning coal (until the war with the zebras cut off their supply) and then they devised a way to use gemstones (which are very plentiful in Equestria) in place of coal for electricity and to generate the power for locomotives. They also have a way to convert between electrical power (measured in watts) and magical power (measured in hornpower) which is how the physical phenomenon of the shield is created.

That's... alright. It sets off some annoying thoughts, because just the whole idea of a giant machine powered by magic runes still pisses me off, but at least we're seeing characters develop technology to suit the natural world they live in - which just happens to include magic.

The magic runes don't create power. More or less, they're a form of magical instruction that replicates the properties of a particular spell. For example, using the shield generator, they feed raw magic converted from electricity into the inscribed gems and these gems turn the magic into a shield spell with all the properties that the instructions give that spell (for example, permeable to air, water, and natural sunlight but not to any of the particles or physical effects of a megaspell explosion).

Not the least of these is how so many people just line themselves up to bow at its feet as the greatest achievement in modern literature, which I think is annoying for any story, no matter how good.

I've always said of FOE that it's meritorious by sheer tonnage: it's so massively large that the largeness is itself a virtue. My personal feeling is that it happens in the Fallout universe without catching the Fallout spirit. Every Fallout game allows you, as a single person, to be an agent of great change. But I've never ever felt totally helpless surrounded by impossible to conquer or comprehend enemies when I've played the Fallout games... but this is an abiding theme of FOE: the helplessness of the main character leading to an act of hopeless self-sacrifice to salvage a barely-acceptable outcome. I can't think of any Fallout games that end on that note.

The world's clearly technologically advanced - why don't they just use nukes?

Megaspells are their nukes, sort of. A megaspell in the FOE universe is a spell matrix into which any spell can be plugged to supercharge its effects. Plug in a healing spell and you can revive an entire army from the point of death; plug in a balefire spell and you can wipe out a city.

The fuck is "radiation" coming from if it's a magical attack?

As near as I can tell, magical radiation is raw unfiltered magic that does the same thing conventional radiation does: causes random death and mutation in a living body.

It's bang-on true to Fallout canon one minute (Stable-Tec) and then fucking around in its own bastardized MLP world the next (megaspells) and then inventing entirely new stuff that doesn't make any sense, like the Ministry shit. The hell is that from? George Orwell? WHY. I just don't understand why some of these choices were made.

Nor do I, really, although the way the Ministries are explained in-story cause them to make a certain kind of sense. Since Princess Luna regards the Mane Six as peers and the ponies that saved her from being Nightmare Moon, she doesn't use them for errand-running (like Celestia) but gives them all the official power and resources they need to be her personal problem-solvers. Luna acting this way makes sense to me, as does the Ministries spinning out of control the way real-life bureaucracies do. Speaking of good ol' Orwell, Kkat clearly had "1984" in mind when coming up with the Ministry of Morale and Ministry of Image.

I tried reading it once, couldn't get into it, and was left with an overwhelming feeling of apathy.

O.O Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
I tried reading it once, succeeded, and was left with a hollow space where my soul once was. It's so soul-destroying DEPRESSING that my immediate reaction to it was to save off a copy to my harddrive and begin systematically cramming sunlight up its ass and down its throat.

I still hate technomancy.

Well, I hope you find it tolerable in "Five Weeks", at least my version of it.

Well, dagnabbit. I've now just spent lots of effort creating an 8-page flashback to replace most of the exposition and I log in to FimFiction to find that you actually recommend against it. >.< Story of my life.

Please don't tell me you got rid of what you wrote... I personally wouldn't go into a flashback unless it was significant, but having a flashback would be cool. Perhaps the solution is to go into further effort making it significant - the events of that battle come back to affect one of the characters, or the new characters we see during the flashback later become significant in some way.I was mostly trying to save you effort, since a flashback is kind of unnecessary and not worth putting time into if it's not going to matter later on.

my solution to the inherent questions was

My question was rhetorical. I meant it was a stupid choice. Writing original fiction and sticking magical devices into a technological device just seems incredibly stupid to me - why not explain it away with more technology? It doesn't even have to be exact, because of suspension of disbelief. How do X-wings hover in Star Wars? Repulsorlifts. Do repulsorlifts exist? Does the cross-sectional technology backing them have any basis in fact? Do we give a shit, as long as we get to see it blow shit up?

Imagine if X-wings were powered by "Force crystals" in the movie. Would that not seem like the laziest, most half-assed explanation ever, when the given scientific explanation of repulsorlifts, sublight drives, and hyperspace technology is essentially even less plausible? Maybe you disagree, but like I said most of my complaints are simply personal taste issues.

They also have a way to convert between electrical power (measured in watts) and magical power (measured in hornpower) which is how the physical phenomenon of the shield is created.

This sort of bullshit is what I'm talking about. No offense or anything, but... what the fuck.

The magic runes don't create power. More or less, they're a form of magical instruction that replicates the properties of a particular spell.

See my bit on computer programming. Again, in an MLP fic, my criticisms get muted by the fact that all these things like magic and runes already exist in their world, so they might as well use them. But had this world been entirely your creation... why the hell not explain the "instructions" as being part of a computer program, in the way that a nuclear missile is programmed to fire a neutron into an atom of uranium and kick off the reaction once the altimeter reaches a certain value? It's all science, and while it may be hideously complicated it's still just science and not magic. If a society is capable of building this huge enormous shield generator... why power/program it with runes? It makes no sense to me.

Megaspells are their nukes, sort of. A megaspell in the FOE universe is a spell matrix into which any spell can be plugged to supercharge its effects. Plug in a healing spell and you can revive an entire army from the point of death; plug in a balefire spell and you can wipe out a city.

As near as I can tell, magical radiation is raw unfiltered magic that does the same thing conventional radiation does: causes random death and mutation in a living body.

Again, rhetoricals. I understand, or at least I am aware of, the explanation given for these pieces. My quarrel is with the fact that they were chosen over conventional uranium bombs and gamma rays, with all the cheesy and scientifically implausible mutationy side-effects we're so familiar with from the 1950s-1960s science fiction films the inspiration for the games was lifted from.

Luna regards the Mane Six as peers and the ponies that saved her from being Nightmare Moon, she doesn't use them for errand-running (like Celestia) but gives them all the official power and resources they need to be her personal problem-solvers. Luna acting this way makes sense to me, as does the Ministries spinning out of control the way real-life bureaucracies do.

True enough. But it's not Fallout. Fallout had themes flying at you from all sides; commentary on human nature, commentary on American values, commentary on communism and capitalism and belief systems in general, commentary on religion (Church of Atom, anyone?)(Do I get points for being able to recite Cromwell's entire speech from memory?)(They also had the same thing in Tactics, if that counts for anything), commentary on every motherfucking goddamn thing you could ever comment on, MOST of which was pretty much hard-coded into our own Earth history.

This can't really be ponified successfully.
Nor can this.
Or this!

All those organizations and most of the general themes hinge on the history we know, the history of America and the world, and all those things are vital to the Fallout experience. Without a pre-existing background knowledge of specific historical stuff, especially ideological concerns and all that, there's no way that I can see that any fiction could ever capture the essence of Fallout and still take it into a different setting. What are you gonna do, poke fun at monarchies and oligarchies? Because... that's fresh and innovative? No, you poke fun at the nation with the arrogance to declare itself the greatest in human history, and the flaws and folly of democracy. You make a run at government in general, sort of implying that the way things are now is almost better than how it was before. You can't do those things when the government actually was perfectly benevolent, when the world you're using is this odd bastardization of MLP stuff and Orwell and all this other shit, when zebras are fighting a holy war instead of competing over resources and when everything in the universe is the way it's been created. To me, it looks like the format for creating this world was:

-Take things from Fallout that you like. Cut and paste them (clumsily and without thought) directly into a blank canvas. Twiddle with the names a bit to make puns, and tape some canon MLP shit to it as "justification," but leave the actual device pretty much exactly as it appears in Fallout.
-Absolutely ignore everything else about Fallout whatsoever, except for the fact that it takes place in a wasteland and wastelands are bad.
-Smear some magical mystery bullshit all over the place, replacing nukes with megaspells and radiation with "loose magical energy" and pretend like that's not a slap to the face of Fallout canon.
-Try and shove a shitty .jpg picture of Equestria underneath all the stuff you just attached to the canvas. If you fuck up and rip the image, that's okay. Just ignore the damage and shove harder.
-Put a George Orwell bobblehead in the middle of the canvas.
-See all those holes in the image that don't make any shitcocking sense, and can't be fixed by catering to Fallout or MLP? Just invent random bullshit.
-Photograph it and slide in a blue filter in Photoshop to create sadness.

Congratulations. You've created the miserable hellscape of nonsense that is Fallout: Equestria. If ever there was a wasteland, it's here. Not the aftermath of the megaspells, oh no! The aftermath of two worlds which are unspeakably awesome in their own right being crammed and duct taped together no matter how little they belong there.

What makes me laugh is when I first heard of people writing MLP fanfiction one of the first things I thought of was writing a Fallout: Equestria piece. Before I'd even heard of the real thing, mind you. I don't even know if it existed at that point (it probably did). I immediately dismissed it with the thought "no, as awesome as it would be to have ponies in Vault suits, and as awesome as it would be to write about ponies in a wasteland, I love those worlds too much to force them together." And then, someone did exactly that. And, surprise, it suffers from all the problems I knew it would.

Well, I hope you find it tolerable in "Five Weeks", at least my version of it.

Like I said. In stories where a magical world develops technology, I find it a lot more tolerable than in ground-up constructions or stories set in a technological world which discovers magic. I still think, in almost all cases, I'd rather the story just stayed fantasy (I'll confess to not liking the fantasy genre much outside of Elder Scrolls and a few other rare exceptions... I don't even like Harry Potter. *dodges nuclear warheads being thrown from all directions*). This story's interesting, I find it entertaining enough to keep reading, and the only things I have faults with are the fact that it's set in the FOE universe. Which, as I write these, I find myself hating more and more. Yet, I also want to read it. I might be wrong and love it, which would be nice considering I want to love something that combines two of my favorite things, but if I hate it it's still a victory because it gives me ammunition to use against it rather than the general "this is stupid" that I feel for it right now.

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Please don't tell me you got rid of what you wrote...

Well, I saved it all off into another text file but I'm very seriously considering trashing the lot of it since too much exposition has been your primary complaint thus far.

Perhaps the solution is to go into further effort making it significant - the events of that battle come back to affect one of the characters, or the new characters we see during the flashback later become significant in some way.

It'll have some significance because of a few things it establishes about characters and technology... at least I think so. My focus was more in replacing the exposition that was annoying with something more interesting and dynamic.

I was mostly trying to save you effort, since a flashback is kind of unnecessary and not worth putting time into if it's not going to matter later on.

Well, it is and it's not. The unexpected victory at Colthav led to Stalliongrad which led to the drive to create the shield generator and next-gen megaspell out of fear that the zebras will respond to the disaster by resorting to a combination of their highly advanced stealth technology and megaspells. So it's why the world is the way that it presently is. But the events in Colthav have no direct effect; lots of indirect ones, but nothing direct.

But had this world been entirely your creation... why the hell not explain the "instructions" as being part of a computer program, in the way that a nuclear missile is programmed to fire a neutron into an atom of uranium and kick off the reaction once the altimeter reaches a certain value?

If this world had been entirely of my own creation, I'd have come up with better magic-tech integration, taking full advantage of the inherently plastic nature of magic as well as drawing on my understanding of real-world engineering and technology. Whether it's "the Force" or chi or ki or "magic", having a mysterious supra-scientific force that you can define and use as you wish (as long as it has rules and limitations) is a fantastically fun device to work with.

This can't really be ponified successfully.
Nor can this.
Or this!

Fortunately, Kkat only tries to ponify the first one and it's... odd. He tries so very, very hard with it though.

No, you poke fun at the nation with the arrogance to declare itself the greatest in human history, and the flaws and folly of democracy. You make a run at government in general, sort of implying that the way things are now is almost better than how it was before.

Oddly, I've never gotten any of those themes out of Fallout. The alternate-history world and the post-apocalypse world seem to bear a closer resemblance to a made-up nation than historical or contemporary America. Perhaps I just overthink it.

To me, it looks like the format for creating this world was:

-Take things from Fallout that you like. Cut and paste them (clumsily and without thought) directly into a blank canvas. Twiddle with the names a bit to make puns, and tape some canon MLP shit to it as "justification," but leave the actual device pretty much exactly as it appears in Fallout.
-Absolutely ignore everything else about Fallout whatsoever, except for the fact that it takes place in a wasteland and wastelands are bad.
-Smear some magical mystery bullshit all over the place, replacing nukes with megaspells and radiation with "loose magical energy" and pretend like that's not a slap to the face of Fallout canon.
-Try and shove a shitty .jpg picture of Equestria underneath all the stuff you just attached to the canvas. If you fuck up and rip the image, that's okay. Just ignore the damage and shove harder.
-Put a George Orwell bobblehead in the middle of the canvas.
-See all those holes in the image that don't make any shitcocking sense, and can't be fixed by catering to Fallout or MLP? Just invent random bullshit.
-Photograph it and slide in a blue filter in Photoshop to create sadness.

Congratulations. You've created the miserable hellscape of nonsense that is Fallout: Equestria. If ever there was a wasteland, it's here. Not the aftermath of the megaspells, oh no! The aftermath of two worlds which are unspeakably awesome in their own right being crammed and duct taped together no matter how little they belong there.

*just sits here laughing my ass off* I don't know Fallout well enough to see in FOE what you're talking about, but it's still hilarious to hear. :)

This story's interesting, I find it entertaining enough to keep reading, and the only things I have faults with are the fact that it's set in the FOE universe.

Partly. FOE doesn't have Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, bullet trains, tanks, multiple versions of megaspells, or any of the other fun things I added with a nailgun.

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My focus was more in replacing the exposition that was annoying with something more interesting and dynamic.

Perhaps a short, simple story arc which mostly focuses on action, and really just amounts to a few basic scenes between a few new characters? A soldier or officer on the front lines of battle, who goes through some simple personal journey and at least has some point in everything. It'd let us see pretty explosions firsthand, told between a couple basic characters that don't have to be all that well developed or anything. Just enough to make us care slightly about them. Call of Duty characters. Compared to the great classics of literature, they're cardboard, but you let it slide because bullets are flying out of helicopters which are exploding. And even though they are simple, they get our emotions up and flaring, when Soap's shot and bleeding out on the table and Price is shouting at everyone to heal him while simultaneously trying to fight off a horde of angry Russians. I dunno, I did like what you had originally, too.

having a mysterious supra-scientific force that you can define and use as you wish (as long as it has rules and limitations) is a fantastically fun device to work with.

Sure. Force stuff is cool. Mass Effect had biotics. Star Trek has... well, I guess a lot of the races are telepathic, so that kinda counts. A lot of science fiction has that one "thing" in the background that functions kind of like magic, but isn't quite magic. In any case, it's not assault rifles with a magical rune that repeatedly summons a "conjure bullet" spell. It's just a fucking assault rifle. And that's what I'm getting at when I say I hate technomancy - it's not just simple "magical settings and fantasy settings should GTFO from each other," although in general that's my feelings, but I really feel strongly about technology which requires this magical energy in order to work. Like, for example, magical runes which power/direct/are somehow directly responsible for the effects of a shield generator. Or spell "frameworks" which make spells a lot more powerful. Apart from the relative coolness factor of how you could, using that system, create "healing nukes" or perhaps even restore whole sections of the wasteland (G.E.C.K. style)(<--one of like, maybe, three acronyms you'll ever see me put periods in)... it's just pointless when a society capable of developing bullet trains and all the other shit they have definitely should have split the atom by now. And double especially when you're going into a Fallout story. But I'm side-tracking into attacks on FOE.

Point: quasi-mystical forces that can only be vaguely defined by science (Force, biotics, etc) are great fun. But when you take that force and make technology out of it (don't even think about saying "but Ally! Mass Effect's starships do use biotics!" - because you're fucking wrong. They use mass effect fields, which are purely scientific and mechanical and are created and projected from a technological element zero core somewhere in belly of the ship. Biotics allows people to conjure mass effect fields by using their own bodies - and that's the quasi-mysticism. Also long parenthetical is long) is when I take an issue. X-wings powered by "Force crystals." Assault rifles powered by magical gems. Fuck no. Just invent the whole device, don't leave it half-finished and shove a magical thing in there that accomplishes the same net result. Fucktards.

Fortunately, Kkat only tries to ponify the first one

The Enclave is in FOE.

wat.

I need a whole separate thread to contain all my wat.

The Enclave is, like... so rooted in it being an American thing. You couldn't ever put it anywhere else without absolutely ruining it! I mean, NCR would be easy to do, because you'd just make a clone of Equestria as it appears prior to the war. That's what NCR is doing in America. It wouldn't be anything like the real NCR by its very definition, and I'd get angry at that, but at least it'd be somewhat true to the idea of NCR. But ENCLAVE. No. This ties into the next thing I wanted to respond to:

Oddly, I've never gotten any of those themes out of Fallout. The alternate-history world and the post-apocalypse world seem to bear a closer resemblance to a made-up nation than historical or contemporary America.

So it seems totally implausible to you that this country would quarrel with another superpower over ideology and resources. This country would certainly never spy on its own people and become deathly paranoid of dissidents. Certainly, democracy always works, too. No, seriously, it totally does.

Fallout pulls all these things out and makes us look at them. NCR has all the same problems contemporary America has. Prewar America had the same problems. Fallout deals with government apathy, how it puts its own interests above its people's. Vaults, a giant science experiment. Enclave, the need to control. Relics of the government and all that. Don't look at Fallout 2, Fallout 2 sucks. New Vegas focuses more on NCR than anything else and kinda fucks up in the process. I could really go into detail on this if you want, but... you might be better off just reading Wiki stuff. Point is, there's fucktons of commentary going on in any decent Fallout game. The religion stuff is particularly exciting, especially the Children of Atom. "Look, it's a bomb. It has the power to destroy us! Worship it!" - pretty awesome stuff.

I've bitched enough. As awesome as it is to think of a world with ponies in vault suits and stuff... I think this would have been better if they'd just dumped the whole Fallout vibe and made their own apocalypse. Merging the two just traps me in between them.

712909 Yanno, I'm just going to post up the new Chapter Three that contains this flashback because trying to figure out precisely what you're getting at is making me confused. First, exposition is making you tear your hair out. Then a flashback isn't a good idea. Then we need a short scene with not-actually-characters-in-this-story doing stuff in battle. Then you liked what I had in the first place, which was the exposition that was making you tear your hair out. So yeah, here's the new Chapter Three right where the old one used to be.

Like, for example, magical runes which power/direct/are somehow directly responsible for the effects of a shield generator. Or spell "frameworks" which make spells a lot more powerful. Apart from the relative coolness factor of how you could, using that system, create "healing nukes" or perhaps even restore whole sections of the wasteland (G.E.C.K. style)(<--one of like, maybe, three acronyms you'll ever see me put periods in)... it's just pointless when a society capable of developing bullet trains and all the other shit they have definitely should have split the atom by now.

One would think so, but in this particular society, magic is used as a shortcut to things that would require vastly more complex technology to achieve. Generating a solid wall of energy that can selectively repel everything but water, air, and natural sunlight is technologically complicated to an extreme... but replace massively complex technological device with nine gems inscribed with runes and you've bypassed the problem with a solution that the society is easily capable of. Bullet trains require immense research into aerodynamics, friction, highly efficient engines, and lots of other scientific areas... or you can slap a magical field on the front that imitates the one that a pegasus can use to break the sound barrier plus some gems enchanted to keep the train within a certain distance of the ground and you have yet another bypass that the society is easily capable of. Granted, neither the shield generator nor the bullet train is incapable of functioning without a clever magical bypass but in this setting, the functioning is achieved with what the society already has instead of with a much more complicated technological apparatus that it doesn't.

Assault rifles powered by magical gems.

Or, in the FOE universe, energy weapons that are powered by magic-filled batteries instead of plasma batteries?

The Enclave is in FOE.
wat.
I need a whole separate thread to contain all my wat.

Oh yes. The Grand Pegasus Enclave. When Equestria gets n00k'ed (or, I suppose, megaspelled), the pegasus build a solid ceiling of clouds between them and the ground and hide in the sky. I revel in your wat. :D

So it seems totally implausible to you that this country would quarrel with another superpower over ideology and resources. This country would certainly never spy on its own people and become deathly paranoid of dissidents. Certainly, democracy always works, too. No, seriously, it totally does.

I'll point out, as I've emphasized a few times, that I'm not familiar enough with the Fallout universe to really understand what you're on about. Moreover, I've only played Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas. FO2 because it was a gift from a friend, FNV because I enjoyed the mechanics. Other than that, most of my knowledge of the Fallout universe comes from reading FOE.

As awesome as it is to think of a world with ponies in vault suits and stuff... I think this would have been better if they'd just dumped the whole Fallout vibe and made their own apocalypse.

They sort of did. As you keep pointing out, there's a big ol' gap between how Fallout does the apocalypse and technology and how FOE does.

713155 Hang on, let me explain this better.

Exposition of boring stuff, when that's all we see, is what's annoying. Exposition of interesting stuff, placed badly, is what's annoying. That's what happened. You had family shit, which was boring as sin, and war stuff, which was interesting and well-written and entertaining, slapped right smack bang in the middle of what was supposed to be an action scene in the present. Both those needed moving, and the family stuff should (in my most humble opinion) get blasted out the airlock and set on fire. I suggested flashbacks so that if you were going to make this all just talking scenes, it'd be cool to have some action stuff in between. Flashbacks would be a cool way of doing that. But... it should make sense and contribute to the plot. I suggested adding in characters who we can follow on their campaign, from Colthav to Stalliongrad or wherever else they go, through the flashbacks. Unless the main characters are involved in the events, in which case... you know, fuck it, it'll be fine. I don't feel like talking about the flashback anymore. I think you should justify its existence by having the events contribute to either the plot or the characters somehow; something that happens there comes back around to teach the characters something, or have an effect on them in some way. I dunno. Fuck it.

the functioning is achieved with what the society already has instead of with a much more complicated technological apparatus that it doesn't.

Exactly. I've made this concession a shitload of times already. When you are talking about fiction modernizing a fantasy world and fusing the newly-arrived tech with the pre-existing magic, my complaints and anger get muted to a simple eye-roll. My hatred of technomancy is much more extreme when it's originally created that way. Or, worse, when a sci fi setting inexplicably discovers magic runes and starts using them in their technology. It just rubs me the wrong way. And, as always, it comes down to personal preference. I have no real argument beyond "I dislike it." To me, it's bullshit.

most of my knowledge of the Fallout universe comes from reading FOE.

Then run the fuck away and go play FO3. Jesus H. It's infinitely better than FO2. And all my linkspam was me introducing themes and showing what they are in reference to.

2077:
-US is in a new Cold War with China.
-US is deathly gripped in the throes of McCarthyism, going so far as to equip basic service robots in office buildings with deadly laser cannons and program them to murder anyone not carrying a valid company ID.
-US has openly fought with China after they invaded Alaska; when Canada objected to being used as America's troop-highway, we were so obsessed with our own conflicts and interests that we annexed the country and occupied the bitch because we're America and we do what we want.
-NCR president Tandi served like 10 terms or something ridiculous. The Enclave claims to be a democratic body, but functions more like a dictatorship.

And many more. It's really a quite compelling commentary about human nature, if you can get into it and actually look. I want to write more about it, but I'm tired.

They sort of did. As you keep pointing out, there's a big ol' gap between how Fallout does the apocalypse and technology and how FOE does.

Not what I meant. I meant an entirely new apocalypse setting. No vaults, no Enclave, no clumsily-pasted-in references to a franchise which has no business being crossed over. Stop trying to bastardize the two together, accept they're incompatible, and just have megaspells be megaspells. I honestly wouldn't bitch about megaspells one bit if the Fallout branding wasn't on the tin. The reason is that atomic/nuclear weapons are so irrevocably intertwined with the Fallout setting that swapping them for something magical, even something which might perhaps make more sense in the MLP setting, just pisses me off. It's nuclear armageddon. Changing that for anything else is just wrong.

I'm not going to convince you it's a bad story, and I don't want to. It's not my goal to piss on things you like. I strongly dislike a lot of the things I know about FOE, and considering how little I know that's enough reason to not want to even give it a chance. I probably will, "eventually," but technomancy as a concept turns me off. I don't even like most fantasy settings; MLP, TES, and... Dragon Age (NOT DA 2 - that was shit)... that's about it. Conversely, I absolutely love science fiction. So when you combine the two... bad things happen.

But I've already said far more than my two cents worth. I will now shut up.