Writing: EFNW TWI talk rough draft (it's rough!) · 4:34am May 14th, 2019
Due to various circumstances beyond my control, such as a local power failure, working two hours late today, packing for EFNW, and general procrastination (okay, that one’s on me), this blog post is gonna be a bit rough. In fact, it’s
But maybe that’s not a bad thing [Spoiler: it is]. I’ve got Wednesday and Thursday to refine this before I present it, and y’all can help! Like I said in the previous blog post on the topic, I’m giving a talk on writing good dialogue and of course I’m brilliant at it, so brilliant in fact that I can’t think of anything I don’t know, which by extension means that I don’t know what I should talk about because I don’t know what y’all don’t know. 
(Seriously, though, I’ll take your ideas. Please?)
Okay, let’s get into the heart of the matter.
Most stories are going to have dialogue. You can write a story without it, but most people don’t.
And I’ll start with the most important rule first, ‘cause I’ve seen novice writers break it. Each new speaker gets a new paragraph. If you remember nothing else from this blog, remember that. Don’t make that mistake. Nothing’s gonna confuse your readers faster when it comes to dialogue if you put more than one character speaking in the same paragraph.
“How was the party?” Twilight asked. “Oh, it was great,” Pinkie Pie said. “Everybody came to the party.” “Yeah, even Applejack was there,” Rainbow Dash added.”
This is right out. Never do this.
There are also a bunch of rules about punctuation. Ezn covers most of the standard cases in his site writing guide, so we’re not gonna spend too much time with that. If you’re too busy to click on the link, the short version is generally dialogue ending in a period, such as “I wrote a blog.” would be replaced with a comma for the dialogue tag: “I wrote a blog,” Admiral Biscuit said. Unless it’s a proper noun, the first letter of the dialogue tag would not be capitalized. Question marks and exclamation marks stay, but you still don’t capitalize the first letter of the dialogue tag, unless it’s a proper noun.
That’s the basics. Get that right. Refer to Ezn’s guide.
There are two purposes to dialogue. The first is to impart information. This is basically how it works in real life. You know something, and somebody else doesn’t, so the normal method of human communication is to tell that other person what you know.
This also works in stories. One character is telling another something which the other character might not have known otherwise.
”What kind of trees are these?” Twilight asked.
“Apple,” Applejack said.
“I see. And what kind of fruit do they produce?”
“Apples.”
“Is that it?”
“Apple blossoms? Leaves, if you’re hungry.” Applejack shifted her hooves. “Fact is, Twilight, most everything is apples here. яблоки яблоки”.
Also important, it serves as an insight into the character. In the above text, the reader can discern that Applejack is obsessed with apples, and Twilight doesn’t know a damn thing about tree husbandry. This kind of thing could serve as subtle worldbuilding/characterbuilding; the reader might wonder how Twilight is unaware that apple trees only produce apples. It might further reinforce her unawareness of farming, owing to the fact that she was raised in a city.
This is one place that dialogue can really shine. An author can spend hundreds of words just telling you that a character is an ignorant hick (for example), or it can be said simply in a few lines of dialogue.
”What kind of fruit are these?” Twilight asked.
“Them are apples.”
Applejack’s eyebrows have great power
Alright, that’s enough of mocking Applejack for now. Y’all get the idea.
This does bring me to another point, though. Vernacular. There’s proper English, and then there’s vernacular, which very loosely defined is anything that’s nonstandard. It’d cover mispronunciations, unusual or incorrect grammar, accents, slang, and pretty much anything else that the Chicago Manual of Style would frown upon.
Done right, it can bring a lot to a story, and done badly it can confuse the heck out of a reader, and be a real chore to the author.
So we scatted out into the big winter nochy and walked down Marghanita Boulevard and then turned into Boothby Avenue, and there we found what we were pretty well looking for, a malenky jest to start off the evening with. There was a doddery starry schoolmaster type veck, glasses on and his rot open to the cold nochy air.
--A Clockwork Orange
[A Clockwork Orange is difficult read, just for the slang, but at least I personally found that once I got a chapter in, it all started to make sense to me.]
And to some extent, we all use a bit of vernacular with pony expressions in our stories--”everypony,” “salarymare,” etc.
I’d caution a writer to not go overboard with it, though.
Going along with vernacular, we’ve got catchphrases, things that characters say a lot. Now, y’all could go and get the transcripts for every episode (I only did it up to S3 before it got to the point my computer got angry at the size of the gDoc) and find out what the ponies tend to say, but I think we all know that Rarity says “Darling” a lot, Applejack says “Sugarcube,” Fluttershy starts a lot of sentences with “Um,” and so forth.
We don’t want to overuse those, but sprinkling them here and there is a clear marker for who’s saying what.
You can, of course, establish catchphrases or a manner of speaking for an OC as well. Maybe your OC is, like, a Valley Girl. Whatever.
A good technique is to read your dialogue aloud. Make sure it sounds natural. You can do it at home, alone in your writer’s garret. If you can sort of do the character voice, so much the better (remember, you’re alone in your writer’s garret, so it’s not like anybody’ll hear). Make sure it feels natural, like something that character would say.
Real humans put lots of filler words in. They’re most often ignored by the listener, and generally don’t make it into movie scripts and radio plays and so forth. If you really want to get a feel for that, legal transcripts of varying types do often include them, or of course you can just listen to an actual human speaking. My manager frequently goes off on wild tangents and somewhere I’ve got a great one written down, but at the moment I’m up against the wall (proverbially) and can’t spend the time to find it. So something like this might suffice instead:
“This isn’t a patent case. There's not statue that defines--where I’m asking him to define technology for me. I’m asking--I want to find out from a layperson’s perspective, not an engineer’s perspective, not a technician's perspective, but from--I have an idea. How about this: Have you ever heard the term ‘photocopier’ or ‘photocopy’ used in the Recorder’s Office by anybody?”
Which I suppose brings us to pacing. Some characters are slow and deliberate in their thoughts, and impart that in their speech as well. Others might be more crisp and concise, such as a soldier making a report.
I’ve found that writing children/foals, it helps to have their dialogue run on. Makes it feel more natural. Simpler words, and simple concepts help, too.
I blogged about saidisms way back when, and I don’t have the time to repeat it here (sorry!--it’ll be in the actual EFNW talk, but y’all are currently getting the raw version). Short version is that they’re a necessary evil, and IMHO they should be avoided whenever possible.
One thing that I just learned recently--which maybe I knew in my mind but had never had expressed to me--is that they can be used to break up big blocks of dialogue, what Noble Voice called ‘breathing breaks.’ For the characters or for the readers, or perhaps for both.
The real trick, the one that the best authors know and I’m sorta getting the hang of is mixing it all up. Not going with a wall of saidisms that break up the flow of the text, but using them in the right places. Having dialogue that fits with a particular character, and staying in character. Making sure that your dialogue gets across what you need to, but also making sure that it isn’t too unrealistically focused. Real people go off on tangents, lose the thread of the conversation, and what were we talking about again?
Alright, I know we got a bit rushed here at the end, and I do apologize. Time constraints, yo. I’ll be working on this, and those of you who aren’t at EFNW won’t see the more finished product until after the con (or perhaps never if there’s a lot of tomato throwing). And I know darn well this was very much a ‘throw things at the wall and see what sticks’ kind of blog post. . .
Also, I have a class after work tomorrow.
Don’t expect replies to comments straightaway; odds are I won’t have time. But know that I’ll read them, ‘cause I want your opinion about this thing.
Another self-comment, this is from an as-yet unpublished blog which covers dialogue as well:
Another thing that you can do for voice is . . . well, I don't know the term, exactly. But the sad truth is that most of us don't talk like Morgan Freeman in our everyday life. (Even professionals don't, which is why in movies and audio recordings there are second takes.) We rarely see or hear these outtakes, although one example I can think of is cockpit voice recording transcripts. Since they're legal documents, they publish them as spoken.
AAR 10/03 Loss of Thrust in Both Engines After Encountering a Flock of Birds and Subsequent Ditching on the Hudson River
For those of you not familiar, the HOT-1 and HOT-2 are the microphones that are picking up the dialogue, the time is a timestamp, and the # is a profanity.
derpicdn.net/img/view/2017/11/4/1577758__safe_artist-colon-twitchy+rudder_oc_oc+only_oc-colon-scotch_oc-colon-twitchy+rudder_aircraft_bat+pony_clothes_cockpit_earth+pony_male_pilot_pl.png
Source (Derpibooru link 'cause NSFW on tumblr)
Once upon a time, somebody asked me how to write dialogue for a foal well, and I said to sort of ramble on. Get to the point you need to in the conversation, but don't get right to it, and if you can toss in a bit of breathless excitement as well, that helps set the tone. Especially if there's an adult to kind of put the brakes on the conversation, or to provide contrast to the slightly unfocused thoughts of the foal.
[This is sort of a last-minute addition, and—as is the case with many things—I got inspired by my manager. Specifically, a phone conversation he was having.]
Obviously, I was only one end of the conversation, so I don't know the question that was asked, but he was struggling to try and explain it with an analogy. And, had I known how it was going to go, I would have had my cell phone out recording so that I could present it verbatim, but here's my best simulation of how it went:
Adjuster: “We don't cover failure of the PCV system.”
Manager: “But the problem, you see, um, it's like—okay—imagine if, you know, let's say I had I bought a, um, cell phone and then a new updated cell phone came along, right, because they, it had a problem. . .”
And I'll be honest, his explanation was more convoluted than what I’ve reproduced here.
One thing with dialogue I've never been clear on. I tend to describe how something is being said, or what they are doing as they say it, in the middle of the paragraph instead of the end so it can be pictured right. Are there particular rules for that?
My opinion wich helps me write some talking is to have a rough draft of what they are talking about and then refine that down. Usualy start with like 3 sentence talking then refined down to a1 sentence line. Its realy a lot easier if you have the conversation written alredy in a imperfect state. But it seems like great tips otherwise (dont wory if you dont understand it id love to link an example but i dont have one)
5058344 You know the best part of creative writing is you do you. There are no 'rules' per se. If that's how you like to write dialogue then you should do it that way. The trick is not annoying (the majority of) your readers with it, or any other particular way you choose to write.
Me, personally, I do the same thing. But you gotta pick your moments. If the dialogue being said is important enough in the moment of the story, so important that it warrants describing exactly how the character is saying it, then definitely do it. Besides, I'm with you on this, if the dialogue is long enough that if, by the time you read the whole piece and you get to the end where it says '...she said with unrestrained enthusiasm' but you read it in your head as '...she said, unimpressed' then you have to go back and re-read that part with the correct tone, then it's annoying. Best way, I find, is to have the character start the sentence with a few words, then have them deliberately pause for dramatic effect (usually the dialogue needing extra definition are the dramatic ones anyway) and put your description there, then have them continue on.
I recently rewatched Sound of Silence. I found myself distracted by the eyebrows.
Also I hope you're happy with yourself, I'm now doing research and plotting for shy mutehorse going to Salem State University.
The English-speaking world may be divided into (1) those who neither know nor care what a split infinitive is; (2) those who do not know, but care very much; (3) those who know and condemn; (4) those who know and approve; and (5) those who know and distinguish.
Those who neither know nor care are the vast majority, and are a happy folk, to be envied by most of the minority classes.
-H.W. Fowler
He was a brilliant, snarky SOB on par with Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain. Even if you have only a passing interest in semantics and grammar and style, Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage (often just called "Fowlers" as shorthand) is an entertaining read. Just make sure to look for an early edition from before that jerk Burchfield excised many of the juicy bits.
The biggest problem I have with writing stories, is if I could write, I wouldnt break people trying to talk to them.
Or was that vice verse?
I generally can't stand Oxford Commas, but I must grudgingly admit there are times when they are necessary to prevent ambiguity.
Looking forward to coming to your TWI talk. Everything's already looking more or less put together
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I should've expected that clip was on the way. ()^_^
5058337
Can't really think of anything to say that you haven't said already. Here's hoping things go well. :)
I am so unprepared. Then again, I can be an *example* of what not to be, so that's positive, I think....
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You can use body language and/or expression to avoid a clunky saidism. Examples:
"I guess I'll do that, "she said with unrestrained enthusiasm.
Her eyes gleamed and a wide smile spread across her face. "I guess I'll do that, "she said.
vs.
"I guess I'll do that, "she said morosely.
She sighed. Her gaze fell and her ears folded back. "I guess I'll do that, "she said.
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I don't have anything from Morgan Freeman but I do have from dear Orson Wells. Talk about wonderful dialog.
You should explain what a "dialogue tag" is. I figured it out but it is not guaranteed that everyone will.
One thing that I personally always wish would get covered more in this sort of talk is specific, concrete ideas and exercises to try out for purposes of practicing the subject material, like the "read your dialogue aloud" suggestion. Preferably ones that can be eased into, so they're less intimidating and are less likely to get procrastinated into oblivion, and ideally multiple for any given subject that approach it from different angles, so that audience members for whom one doesn't work can still find another that does. Unfortunately, that usual lack of coverage means I can only suggest stuff that I've figured out for myself as useful for me, but maybe something there will cover an angle you haven't gotten.
stealreappropriate for your stories). There're actually some depths to this, but it's similar enough to the usual "read everything" advice that they're probably best saved for after the panel and its limited time.Write stories or scenes where you push things to extremes, and preferably in pairs/etc such that you push any given thing to every extreme you can come up with. The idea is that first, you get practice at writing throughout the full scope of each specific thing you're working on, and second, you get a better idea of what the range of the thing in question looks like so you can do a better job of identifying how much is present in what you write and how much should be present to get the effect you're going for. A few examples I've tried or plan to (out of a very long list) include:
And so on. Basically, pretty much any writing constraint you can think of that can possibly impact dialogue is probably worth a try. And of course, remember that you can shoot for multiple targets in a single piece if you're finding one too easy – and combined targets can make things particularly interesting, especially if they're largely but not wholly incompatible with each other.
In theory I ought to have more (like ways to try and spot where something's missing / where something isn't but should be), but at this point I'm getting tired enough that I can't figure out how to say them. I'll try to add more before the panel starts if I can figure out how to communicate it intelligibly.