So Long · 2:24pm Mar 11th, 2019
In my blog post from the 3rd of December i told the story of my somewhat long and frustrating search for an editor, and requested, if people would like “In which Spike …” to continue, that they contact me and help out as editors. The response was rather underwhelming. Of the over 200 people who read the chapter, exactly two responded. A third person who had said they'd help with the story before told me that this time they would. I found that if three people actually cared for the story enough that they'd be willing to invest some work into it, that would be enough for me … unfortunately one of those three people figured out they were too busy during our initial talks, one helped briefly but then could no longer be reached, and one wasn't willing to read through 4 chapters in as many months, let alone edit them.
Thus, due to lack of interest, i'll discontinue “In which Spike …” after the climax of the first arc. Detailed plans for the next six chapters and an epilogue were already written – the entire fifth chapter is pretty much finished – and i might continue writing some day if i feel like it, but there's really not much point in posting it if there is so little interest in the story.
I'll also be leaving FimFiction for good. I've been struggling with some aspects of the community for a while. In a number of comment sections the hostility is staggering. I've seen authors attacked in the most ludicrous fashions because they dared to write a romantic pairing other than the one a particular reader was shipping. There are different groups of elitists who are fanatically convinced that their way of creating fan content for the series is the only true and acceptable one. I've seen authors disparaged – to some degree experienced it myself – for daring to touch topics that a particular reader happens to dislike. Maybe this is just a very loud but small minority, but i do not want to have dealings with such people.
There would have been the chance of finding people that make me want to stay, but … I grew up in an environment where resources were sparse, and being self-reliant considered a virtue by necessity. It was expected from everyone even from the youngest age that we'd take care of our problems ourselves, and offer help rather than ask for it. It took a bit of a mental struggle for me to swallow my pride and ask for help in editing “In which Spike …”, and i certainly didn't like doing it, but i felt that for my readers it would be the right choice: an editor could help improve the story greatly, and having a second mind think though some issues would bring results far faster and more efficiently than if i did it alone. I thought that maybe i might even be able to find some friends this way, and offered editing assistance to others on this site. But amongst my readers not one could be found that liked the story enough to be willing to invest some work to see it continued. Amongst the community, all that i contacted who claimed they would be willing to help others in the end did not stick to their word.
The Friendship Lesson that the FimFiction community taught me is one that i had internalized already in my youth: 'Don't ask for help.'
Thus … So long. I'll be leaving looking for a place that works better for me. Maybe i can figure out where SleeplessBrony went.
Yeah, I admit my fault in failing you with this.
It doesn't fix anything, but I'm sorry.
You can insult me now.
Yeah, only one proper response to this /bonk.
You worry too much about what others think. For starters, objectively I'm a way more popular writer than you 1300 followers to 8, it's just objective. Even so, I have a hell of a time finding and keeping editors. Life is busy and frankly there are a lot of people who lack the confidence or the skill to do the job. Wanting one is great, it really is, but sometimes you have to settle for not having one. That's just how it is, it's not because people don't want to read it. As for how others act, yeah it sucks, but ignore them. The author whose enjoying writing, who wants their story to be seen, and whose striving to improve and give the best they can has more value than some sad little troll with nothing better to do than try to force their shit on others. Its easy to get dragged down by the shit, reasonable even, but you quieting over that shit is letting them win. If you don't want to write anymore cause you don't want to write anymore that's unfortunate but understandable, but I can't support leaving because some minority of assholes are trying to get you to doubt yourself. You do good work, you should be proud, don't let anyone convince you differently. if you're really content with leaving it like this, than I can't stop you, but if you have any drive left, hit the gas, give them the middle finger, and show that you have more fight and passion for you work than their shit can ever touch.
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I certainly will not insult you. Your input for the Fluttershy scene was very valuable, and i am grateful for the help that you did provide. It was significantly more than most others did.
I get that priorities change and that unexpected events require time ... it would have been nice to at least get a message that you no longer intended to help rather than let it trickle out in silence, but at least some assistance was given. When i wrote the request on my blog on December 3rd i expected about 5-6 people to respond based on the numbers of readers the story had at that point, and for one of them to work out. Unfortunately the actual number was about one third of that, and 2/5 ended up being rounded down to 0.
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My stubbornness and unwillingness to let those who look down on me win was what kept me at this for five months. I had a version of chapter 4 very close to this done five months ago when i started looking for an editor ... had i found one, i'd expect this story would be complete already. The problem here is less whether i am willing to write, but that i think that whether people are willing to invest any time and work into something is a significant value judgment. And if people don't value what i write, why should i go through the trouble of posting it? Just one month ago i was willing to continue this story for exactly one person who i thought liked this story enough to be willing to put the work in, and didn't really care about whatever some or many other people say. But i couldn't find a single person who thought this story worth enough of their time to help as editor. I will still write things for myself either way, but these will have significantly lower quality standards since those wribblings need not make sense to anyone but myself. The community hasn't exactly endeared itself to me in a way that would motivate me to make sure they can have fun with it as well. I'll simply write more of my original stories and perhaps for a different fandom.
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Yeah, sorry; I kept leaving it for later and... three months passed. I shouldn't have promised to help if I was going to let you down like that.
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If I didn't think it was worth my time I wouldn't be bothering writing this now. Editing takes time and a lot of work, there's lots of stories I deeply enjoy that I have downright refused requests to edit. I simply don't have the time to edit and I'm far from alone. Taking the time to read the chapter is taking time and putting forth enough interest to invest in it. You're putting too much stock in the value of having someone who is willing to edit instead of the value of having someone who can/is editing. Having someone to edit isn't suppose to give value to the story it's suppose to make the story better. Welcome to any fandom anywhere, there's a group of assholes with big mouths. As far as I can tell you have one person being an ass and they're not even good at it. Might as well read "Dragon on Pony is wrong, I need Pony on Pony to fap to!" The dude is a sad joke.
I told you before
The promise is huge. How many walls of text have I given you, how many pointers and example. I'm here because I think you're making a mistake; I'm taking the time to try and stop you. In the end it's up to you. You've had 131 views since yesterday, people are obviously still investing.
Honestly, the great irony is, and perhaps I'll admit the sad truth, if this had an M rating with the promise of eventual sex scenes, you'd of been featured multiple times over.
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The story actually was M rated and starting with the next chapter there would have been sex scenes. I just changed the rating because i wanted to stay accurate to what's actually in the story. A half-decent version of chapter 5 is already written, which would have included some sex scenes, i simply didn't post it because i felt this was a reasonable place to end the story, the first arc being completed, whereas posting the 5th chapter would essentially be teasing for what more is to come. But i'll send you a copy of the 5th chapter, and let you decide yourself whether you want to read a bit more or not.
The issue isn't whether people like the story. As you said yourself, one shouldn't bind oneself to whether the masses like a story or not - i personally am proud and glad to have written "The Black Guard" even though i know that because of the subject matter alone it will never be as liked as other stories (even though i think the tags make it look a lot worse than it actually is). But in a twist of fate i yesterday stumbled across my copy of the song "A true, true friend helps a friend in need". And that's what happened. I needed help. Asking for a friend might have been a bit much, but i feel like asking for a little bit of help when you're stuck is not that absurd. But maybe it is. Bottom line is, amongst the then 200+ readers of "In which Spike ..." and amongst the members of three different editing groups i could not find someone to help me. I did the best i could on my own to produce a half-decent final version - i still think that i didn't handle the Yandere-Fluttershy part well enough, nor how Rarity switches emotions after being reduced to a crying mess, and the sub-storyline of Rarity's injured feet could have been done better ... but i did the best i could. But if i can't find anyone to help me when i need it, why should i keep investing in this? Chapter 5 i'm decently happy with (even though i'd still need to do a couple more passes over it to polish it up a little more), but for Chapter 6 for instance i really would have liked to just get some input whether the basic concept is decent or whether i'm going completely over the top here. This couldn't be done, and for five months i've aggravated frustration and disappointment, being lied to time and again with statements like: "Later this afternoon I'll try ...", "I will have something for you by ...", "You'll have something no later than ..." and so on. Thinking about the story creates bitterness in me now, and i started to be short tempered with some friends because of the frustration i accumulated here, rather than have this be a hobby that would recharge my emotional batteries. That was when i knew i needed to change things.
I admit i don't quite i understand why you think me distancing myself from the story is a mistake.
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I thought so! Knew I wasn't crazy when I saw that T.
I actually really liked Shy's attitude change, nobody fucks with her friends! And I felt that Rarity letting her feet get messed up to try and save Spike had a really powerful feeling behind it. There was something that mattered more to her than her own well being. It was good.
It can be hard to handle the expectation of needing to get something out alone, I understand, trust me. If you just want input hell, I could provide that, no editing, no proofing, just telling you if this is good or this sucks and why isn't hard, I did for most of your chapters in the comments.
If this is affecting your life negatively I understand your drive to distance yourself from it, but I have seen to many cocky, arrogant, and frankly bad author's around here more interested in writing some unreadable, unthought-out, and frankly grammarless wall of texts they call a story. You obviously cared, you do good work regardless of if you see it yourself or not, you tried more than just saying well here it is, if things are wrong too bad, and you wrote a compelling and interesting story that could be read without me having to stop every few seconds and face palm. Trust me when I say this combination is beyond rare as of late. I'll admit it's selfish, but I hate to see another story with so much potential by someone who gives a fuck go unfinished. This fandom use to have so many writers like you who really wanted to share their stories and deliver the best they could on them, and lately, those numbers seem to dwindle more and more. We need more people like you who care.
Honestly, in the next few days when I have some time, as I am just crazy busy at the moment, I'll read what you have for chapter 5 and I'll tell you what I think. For Spike's and your story to get some momentum, maybe releasing the next chapter as a sequel and seeing how it's taken would be the best option. If nothing else I think if it fails to achieve what you were hoping, you could say definitively that you gave it that last chance to be what you wanted it to.
Well, something to think on at least.
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Sorry for the belated response, i've been somewhat sick the last days.
The issues i had with the mentioned topics wasn't as much in the broad strokes, but the details of execution. Case in point: I think there are a number of episodes that show that Rarity can end up being a bit insensitive to how her actions make others feel - Fluttershy as a model or Rarity gaining wings would be examples i can think of immediately. My personal interpretation is that this is because of Rarity's amazing creativity: when Rarity's eyes fall on a pony next to some cloth, she doesn't see the objects but rather the wonderful dress that eventually will be. And sometimes, she ends up being so engrossed in a story that's playing in her head that she fails to notice what the reality is doing to someone else's feelings. But when she does start to notice she can be extremely generous and selfless in trying to make up for it and set things right. So i think the basic arc is solid: Rarity's ideal for a romantic story being tickled just a little bit too much the right way by Spike longing for her forever without any chance of them really being together, which leads to her not quite realizing what her actions are actually doing to him, and then when she does get jolted back to reality that would have been the start of what was internally titled the Rarity Redemption Arc, with the story of her feet just being the beginning. But all the way from the Everfree Forest to Twilight's house no one noticed that Rarity was limping a bit? Especially not Fluttershy who was walking behind her? Even taking into account that Fluttershy is crying, that's asking for a bit of suspension of disbelief from my readers, and i think you have surmised by now that i hate asking for anything. Then there is the sub-scene of Fluttershy taking care of Rarity's feet. I feel there's just not enough input from Rarity's other friends there: they also care a lot about Rarity, and would be worried and empathethic. I looked into giving the others a few more lines, but it just made the story drag rather than enliven it.
Every chapter except the 4th i felt i managed to get to a publishable state on my own without too much trouble. With "In which Spike goes to Sleep ..." it was a noteworthy effort, even though the changes were miniscule if you just measure the word count, and it still barely passes the "publishable" mark for me. I needed an editor not as much to get rid of typos for me - those amount to about 3 per chapter, which i think is stomachable - but rather to discuss such detail problems. But seemingly that was too much to ask.
I think a certain amount of selfishness is both natural and healthy. It was, however, Nash if i remember correctly who proved that ultimately if people work together for a common goal they actually end up achieving more for each individual rather than if everyone simply strives to maximize their own gain. My wish for the common good was to get out some stories that would be enjoyed by others and help the community as a whole. That was why i ended up joining an editing group and offered others in the community some help to improve their own stories. Unfortunately in five months i could find no one to help me.
I'd say it's worth thinking about why so many of the more ambitious people are leaving FimFiction. And considering how active the fanbase of for instance Neon Genesis Evangelion was long after it had finished, i do not think it's because the series is tapering out. But quite a number of times when i was looking around and found someone who seemed interesting, their newest blog message was something about leaving, or it was obvious they had already left a while ago.
As far as achieving what i was hoping with this story ... i pretty much gave it my best shot with my post on December 3rd, where i hoped that someone would be willing to put the time in to see the story continued. That in turn would have also motivated me to stick with the community and work on the other unfinished stories i have floating around. I did my best to get chapter 4 to a publishable state, because it is the climax and conclusion of the first arc, and Infamous Paradox voiced a reasonable complaint that he is annoyed with so many stories just ending mid way because the authors gave up. Chapter 5 resolves nothing, but is simply the start of the second arc, basically an introduction to what was to come, so i don't really see how posting it would help. I've tried for half a year to find an editor, and certainly, maybe on the next try i would succeed. Or the one after, or the next one, or maybe the fiftieth one in. But after being lied to by six different people, i don't really consider that the rational course of action any more. For a community that ostensibly considers honesty, generosity, kindness and loyalty virtues, i have found remarkably little of that here.
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All good I too have been unwell and busy, not the most fun combination.
I think it's reasonable to push everything aside in pursuit of something greater. In this case Rarity's limp and feet were easy to not notice because all of their attention was on the matter of Spike attempting suicide. Injuries are bad but not unheard of for them, but the thought of one of them trying to kill themselves is world shaking. It's not that they don't care about Rarity, it's just far from the forefront of their biggest issue at the moment. As such, I don't think its really wrong to have Shy the caretaker of the group really be the one who ends up noticing and focusing on Rarity once things have reached a certain point of pause. Everyone else is still focused on Spike, and that's not unreasonable or a bad thing. It doesn't make them bad for not noticing Rarity; it just makes them very greatly concerned for Spike.
I would throw away the notion of a word count mattering for a chapter. A chapter should be the length the chapter needs to be to tell it's part of the story. That could be 3 thousand words or 15 thousand. The first chapter of one of my stories is less than 500 words I believe, but if I am to be honest, I consider it to be a very powerful and hooking chapter. Focus less on the length and more on the "Am I happy with how this chapter is? Did I get everything I wanted into it? Did I get everything it should have in it? Did I put in anything it shouldn't?" Holding yourself to a length will make things drag more often than not, so don't.
As for communities, I still find quite a few of the prominent people around, but the fact is that we have lost a lot of good people. One must also consider exactly how many years we've been at this. As far as series go, this is one of the longest running in a long time, and even more impressively I believe it is the longest Hasbro has ever stuck with 1 series. Some people lose interest or things change... I am saddened to admit that I believe one of my editors and one of the best people I've known here died while deployed. It's been a long ride... things have happened, but we shouldn't give up because of that.
I doubt any of them truly lied to you, I think they just weren't up to the task. It's clear you feel some level of betrayal but sometimes shit just happens, and that can be hard to recognize when it hurts. I genuinely have come to believe a friend of mine died as I said above, and I regret that I will never actually know what happened to him. The truth is, I think you lack some confidence in yourself, and I can assure you that belief is unfounded. If it really bothers you that much not to have someone else tell you what they think before you post something, as long as your patient and you don't expect me to jump on every project, I can at least give In which a read before you post something. All I'm really doing is reading and commenting like I was already going to anyways /shrug
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While i personally maintain that a person is responsible for making good on the things they said they would do, there's the old saying that "no plan survives contact with reality". I get that unforseen circumstances may lead to a change in situation which necessiates a different approach. What really irked me was that people couldn't even be bothered to notify me that they wouldn't do what they stated they would. I'd get told "You'll have something by ...", and then weeks or months would pass with no further message at all. I still consider the response from one editor who just immediately told me he wasn't interested in that kind of story one of the best i got, and when one editor told me that she needed to refocus on her job situation i was immediately supportive, offered help and asked if there was something else i could do. I'm not as mental that i would think that a story or editing should take precedence over serious concerns, but simply being left in the lurch with no information meant that i couldn't move on and do something productive, but sat on my hands waiting for support promised but never delivered.
And nope, these people didn't end up in the hospital or something that would reasonably make it hard for them to simply write me a short message.
I think it makes sense to expect adults to at least be able to notify people when they will not do what they stated they would.
I admit that right now i am too bitter to want to continue with this story. Maybe that'll pass in time. If i do continue, your efforts will doubtlessly be a major factor as to why. Chapter 7 would have been fun to write, and i do think you'd probably enjoyed it quite a lot more than chapter 5.
But as i'm always striving for the exemplary, i was really looking for an editor. In my internal work version of chapter 5 there are actually 30 notes where i wanted to look for improvement - some word repetitions that still needed fixing, a couple of sentences that i felt didn't quite sound like Applejack would probably phrase them, a few text passages i considered deleting, that sort of thing. I consider my readers' time to be as valuable as my own, and would actually discourage them from wasting their time on a sub-par product. I think i managed to polish all chapters you've seen to the point where they are publishable - some which got quite solid in the end, and others which barely made the cut - but i'm always looking to improve, and i have to say that when the editing actually happened, looking in detail at the hows and whys of phrasing and storytelling and finding areas where i could improve was amongst the things i enjoyed most.
I'll keep thinking about it, and if i do write an internal draft just for fun that i don't intend to polish to publishable levels i'll let you know so you can have a laugh at least.
Regards, and take care
00_02
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I agree a lack of information is pretty irresponsible, and dead lines unmet and unexplained is frustrating.
Hey, don't get me wrong, I think you did a hell of a job with the 5th chapter. I may be the dominant archetype but I can appreciate and enjoy how Applejack played that out pretty easily, so if you want you can take that as a credit to your writing.
Going back through things and seeing how they turned out the way they did and tweaking the little things and sometimes the really big things is a oddly enjoyable thing for sure as a writer who gives a fuck.
Well for my own sake at least, and I think in part yours, I hope you do end up writing them out. I would hate to see someone miss out on fun around here due to discouragement. Until then, I'll be here likely dealing with far too many sub-par stories :(
Take care man, until later.
(Seriously, I found a story that someone commissioned last week and I think I would of demanded my money back... There's no editing or proofing and its so obvious and rough. I don't get how someone gets paid to do something and than just utterly gives no fucks when trying to sell themselves.)