Worldbuilding - Body Mechanics (Pegasus) · 3:15am Apr 14th, 2018
Thanks to a world building book I just realized something about Pegasi. Without magic, a pegasi gunslinger would be unbeatable by any other kind of pony.
Why? Because pegasi are shown to be just as physically strong as other ponies, but as a flying creature their bones must be hollow and they would have much less muscle mass as they need to be very light weight. This also means their fat percentages and organ density would be lower as well, making pegasi the lightest of the pony tribes by a huge amount. Yet their strength is somewhere between a unicorn and an earth pone as the show tells it.
But even if all ponies have the same rough strength level, it doesn't matter. Because a pegasus would weigh something like 30% of any other kind of pony while being just as strong. That would make them lightning fast!
Combine this with pegasi vision, we see from RD's ability to see and memorize everything she flies over that pegasi have bird of pray vision. Birds of Prey (Hawks, Eagles, Offspray, etc) have vision which is effectively a much higher resolution than what humans and ponies see, and it also has a much much here "Frame Rate". They can take in much more information much faster than other animals. This is how an eagle a half mile up can see a mouse walking through tall grass, dive for it, grab it, and pull up before it hits the ground. All flying creatures would have this faster "framerate" as it's necessary for flying without killing yourself by hitting things.
Combine these two traits. Pegasi see more and process visual information much much faster than you. Pegasi are much much quicker than you as they accelerate less mass with just as much strength compared to you. If you didn't have a clever trick, couldn't use magic, and wound up in a Western Movie style duel with a pegasus... Well, a pegasus would always draw and fire first in a western style duel. They'd probably never miss either.
See, birds of prey also calculate trajectories and distances visual and by instinct. They have to in order to be able to make their flight--based decisions while moving. In other words, a pegasus gunslinger would almost never miss. Especially if you replaced gunslinging with throwing lightning at you.
Steampunk stories are gonna be fun!
Nothing puts you in your place then looking down the barrel of a panzer.
4839689 Look at it this way: Given their bone structure firing most guns would shatter their bones. They would need to stick to low caliber weapons. Not that it matters when they could put that .22LR through your eye at their weapon's max range.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Although a pony would either have to hold a gun with their mouth or forelegs or possibly even have a crazy looking gun attached to their wings.
This has been an old conundrum that the Fallout Equestria writers and fans have had a wide array of many various creative thoughts on.
There's another reason: pegasi are hexapods.
4839692
Maximum effective range, more likely. Even with perfect repetition of movement and perfect proprioreception (ie. they can tell exactly where all of their limbs are and what all of them are doing, and move the exact same way to hit the target every time), simple atmospheric conditions and other external factors are going to make it nigh impossible to perfectly land two shots on the exact same point on the target.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a pegasus being able to massively extend the effective range of their weapons due to their abilities.
4839694 You could also go with a gauntlet. Ponies have shown they can stand on all fours and rotate their forlegs with the same range of motion as a human. You could make a gauntlet that fit over a foreleg, mounted the gun to the side of the foreleg, and fired when the forhoof was bent (a safty) and then the pony flexed their frog (soft bit of flesh recessed into the underside of the hoof). That body part seems to be articulated on a fim pony, given Bigmac's manipulation of a toothpick and ponies ability to pick up things.
4839702 Birds of prey hit their targets regardless of wind conditions, and they dive for their prey, not fly for it (therefore their attacks are not guided but ballistic). It's pretty clear that they would also be able to naturally compensate for windage if they had a means of sensing it (seeing moving leaves, flags, and so on).
But yes, max effective range. My apologies, I forgot a word.
My headcanon explanation for Pegasus Flight has always been "Because Magic", and then working out the various potential methods of said magic (My current favorite is a localized "Mass Effect", but I'm still working out the details of that one so please don't ask me to spell it out). I never really bought into the idea that they have hollow bone structure and lighter muscle mass, simply because Pegasi tend to be crazy durable just like every other pony race, especially when it comes to impact damage, as well as because their Wing Span is nowhere Near what would be needed to generate lift for a creature of their size. Sure, Rainbow Dash is the only character we've seen in the show to ever break a bone, but it's obvious that whatever she was practicing beforehand was botched badly enough to break it, just like Real Life Athletes have been known to break bones during practice/training if they botch something badly enough.
Likewise, for an average Pegasus to be the median measure of pony physiology Bruit strength, before applying Magical Augmentation, would mean that their Muscles would have to be Denser than the muscles of an average Unicorn, but not as dense as the muscles of an average Earth Pony, which would more or less negate any advantage having lighter hollow bones would give them both because the higher muscle mass would put them at just under to about the same mass as their Unicorn Cousins, as well as putting extra stress on their skeletons due to the greater forces exerted upon their more brittle bones both resting and in motion.
Now, better natural eyesight and reflexes? Sure, both of those have precedent in Show Canon, but I have yet to see an explanation for the Hollow Bone idea that managed to convince me.
My opinion personally, if a Pegasus was without magic it wouldn't be able to fly in the first place
4839710 Even just the eyesight and reflexes would mean they win every time.
4839721
Like I said, I wasn't disputing that, though this hypothetical also isn't on account of training. If a trained Unicorn/Earth Pony Gunslinger who had been practicing much of their life to increase their reflexes and eye coordination went up against an untrained novice Pegasus, I'd give them about even odds, with only a slight favor towards the trained gunslingers. A trained Pegasus gunslinger would be a nightmare to go up against still though.
4839721
what worldbuilding book?
4839726 I don't think so. I think the natural abilities of the Pegasus makes fighting on in these sorts of circumstance is suicidal in a strait fair fight regardless of the skill levels involved. From what I can tell the difference in ability here would be so fast as to make skill irrelevant, similar to a medieval knight with 1700s equipment fighting one USMC Sniper armed with a 50 BMG with a starting distance between them of 500 yards.
4839734 This one.
https://www.amazon.com/Kobold-Guide-Worldbuilding-Wolfgang-Baur/dp/1936781115/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523685151&sr=8-1&keywords=kobold%27s+guide+to+worldbuilding&dpID=51rk1kudmRL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch
4839771
Ily, so does this also mean that unicorn are like small super computers able to construct complex geometric spell formula in their mind in seconds?
4839778 Well yeah. From a less mystical sense they would have to be. I'm one of those people who likes to think that magic meets physic half way. In short magic permits the rules to be bent but there still needs to be rules. I've always thought of spell casters as people with intelligence beyond the norm, but in just that one field. Sort of like Savant Syndrome, but without the negatives.
Yeah, I figured this was the main reason they were shown as militaristic in their past: they simply were really damn good at it.
Well, on top of being able to free their forelimbs to carry heavier weapons and aerial superiority.
Though if they are able to bring others with them, that would be an interesting situation
Wow, I really do need to get around to reading the savage world of my little pony, between that and my knowledge of deadlands d20, totems, and shamans I could construct the greatest threstal/batpony ever.
https://giftkrieg23.deviantart.com/art/The-Savage-World-of-My-Little-Pony-4th-Edition-347963248
Fighting a pegasus would be like fighting a Time mage in the steampunk game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.
In that game, fighting was turn based, and who goes first is based on Dex and each action (a step, an attack, etc) took action points. 1 Dex = 1 AP. 12 was a lot. Time mages got up to 75. One could run in, slaughter 50 people and run out before everyone else has even had a turn.
Strength doesn't matter when you don't even get a turn!
Pegasi being hexapods means that thair bone structure would be interesting. And Rabbits should be ruling the world.
4840000 Well... This would have saved my D&D group a LOT of time coming up with a ruleset. XD
4840012 Quite true. Speed wins every time over strength. It's why the Flash loosing any given fight is almost differently stupid.
Maybe this is a little late to put comments here, but... My general problems with this theory that it more or less make RD a baseline. We know that Dash can do this and that but we really don't know if all pegasi have same ability to see and memorize, or same reflexes as Dash. It's like assuming that every earth poniy have same abilities as Pinkie Pie. Or every unicorn are Starlight/Twilight.
4936206 THat's a good argument! In my defence we see that Lightning Dust was able to keep pace with, and perhaps even go faster than RD. RD may therefore have unique talents, but be on par with Olympic Athlete level pegasi.
4936220
But Wonderbolts supposed to be a best flying team in Equestria. I'm sure that anyone who have a real chance to become a part of said team supposed to be a cream of the cream of pegasi. So in general average pegasus Joe supposed to be weaker/slower that them.
Also in "Fall Weather Friends" we could see that pegasi are not that much faster that other ponies. Applejack give Dash a real challenge, and all competing pegasi don't show us better land speed that other tribes.
4936241 Eh, the AJ vs Dash race is on the ground, not air vs ground. THough again, you do have a point. Howeaver I still think that Rainbow would win a quickdraw every single time. I propose we get paint guns, ponies, and see what happens
4936263
Oh, I assumed that you talking about land speed :). Yeah, in term of "normal" speed pegasi definitely fastest one.
Although in terms of "moving from point A to point B" speed prize go to unicorns - teleportation pretty much instant :).
Um, that depend really. Starlight know some sort of speedster spell that allows her to move with incredible speed, she can create forcefield and might to come up with spells that turn her bullet into homing ones :).
But in straight shootout without spells and such she more likely wins hooves down :).
4936306
Oh, nononono! I will never dispute that an Earth Pony is fastest on the ground. Honestly, they need something, and they ahve super strength and endurance, which should also mean they are FAST.
True, but arguably that dosnt count because it's more like you move point B to point A.
From what we see of unicorn magic, it takes them far longer to charge and cast a spell then it takes to draw a gun and shoot. Have you seen real quick draw artists? Check this out.
He can shoot accurately from that posision. There's no reason why a pony couldn't learn to do the same, assuming they had a gun designed for a hoof. That's MUCH faster than a unicorn's spellcasting.
Agreed. And I will also argue that a good gunman/pony would be faster than a spellcaster given their .75 to 1.25 second "charge time".
4936320
As far as I remember when Twilight and Starlight practice their spell they cast them almost instant.
So in case of shootout she only need to cast shield, then superspeed and she pretty much win. Although it hard to say for sure.
...If ponies create some sort of external device that assist unicorns spellcasting they would be insanely OP.
4936370 This is assuming that a unicorn's shield can stop physical objects. As far as I know we never see this happen, and it' sentirly possible that their shields only block energy-based attacks. After all, we see Royal Guard unicorns wearing armor, and in Castle Mania we see full plate armor designed for a unicorn. This implies that mages need physical armor, which suggests their shields are either not very strong and collapse easily, or do not stop physical attacks.
4936646
Um, changeling spend time to physically break Shining Armor mega-shield. So yeah, unicorns shields stop physical attacks.
Most likely not all unicorns can use them so your average unicorn need some other form of protection.
4936726 Granted, but that's a specialized shield cast by a specialist in shield magic who's talent is shields, and was put in place specifically to protect an entire city sized area, for at least a WEEK.
Shining's shield should be thought of as an special case, not the norm.
4936729
Starlight and Twilight spell practice. When Twilight attack moved shielded Starlight shield leave a mark on the floor. If shield solid enough to damage crystal floor of Twilight castle then I assume that it solid enough to withstand physical attacks.
Oh, and Sombra timeline. Celestia used shield to block Sombra soldiers attacks.
4936740 I stopped watching after Starlight's Face-turn for reasons of genuine rage. SO I didn't know any of that. Fair enough I suppose.
4936756
But that doesn't change the fact that up to this point shield spells only tend to be used by high-end unicorns or alicorns. So I assume that average unicorn most likely either can't use them at all or severely limited on its strength.
4936760 Combat magic is also probably regulated or restricted on top of that rather astue observation. Howeaver, we can still assume that you get a pegasus to counter enemy unicorns in the context of combat. As usefull as magic is, I doubt that unicorn is keeping an eye out for threats that are litteraly miles up in the sky... Unicorns back in the tribal pre-equestria days probably feared the Pegasus so much because, you know, drone strikes, only with biological drones.
4936777
I always wondered how they stop unicorns from abusing magic. According to one of Starlight episodes magic like transmutation and teleportation ridiculously easy. Well, unless Trixie incredibly talented.
Keep in mind that earth ponies and unicorns dealed with pegasi for hundreds or maybe even thousands of years. So they would expect them to pull something like this.
And considering that pony!Earth have all sorts of flying megafauna it's a really good idea to watch sky :).
Hitting something with unguided munition from miles up without all sorts of nifty aiming devices really-really hard. Maybe it's possible but I doubt that all of pegasi could pull it off. And without explosives it's fairly pointless. Perhaps good for terror strikes thought.
And as far as I remember all three tribes been in stalemate do I pretty sure that earth ponies and unicorns have their own sets of jokers in thier sleeves.
4936990
The only thing that makes sence here is to remember that they are not humans. Humans are territorial apes for whom living in civilizations like the one you live in is unnatural and very difficult as we're programed to only really care about very small groups of people. This makes it very easy for many humans to justify hurting other humans to get what they want for themselves or their "tribe". What's more, for apes killing one another is natural and instinctive, look at other ape species, all of us make war on one another. We humans just have more advanced killing tools than sticks and rocks, and mouths and hands is all. Just be happy that humans dont eat their kills...
Ponies are herd-based as a species and naturally congregate in groups of 150–200 at the MINIMUM, with some wild herds from before humans domesticated the horse estimated to be in the thousands. Due to this, we can assume that Pony instincts regarding how to interact with strangers make it very very difficult for a pony to feel okay with harming a stranger. Their species survival strategy would make it as tricky to them as it woudl be to you to cut off your own arm. Not impossible, but you'd have to overcome several very strong mental barriers to do it.
Sure! But there's limits to vision. Heck there's limits to technological enhancment of vision too. For example, if an alien starship was orbiting the Earth at the same distance from the earth as the moon we couldn't see it, not even with our most advanced equipment, if it were smaller than 1.1 km in length. That's using human made magic. Our natural vision is obviously much worse in terms of resolution.
Equine vision is actualy worse than human vision. FOr ocuclar structure reasons as well as biomechanics. FOr example!
In case you don't know what that means, it means that a horse has very short range depth perception, and cannot visually tell how far away something meerly at it's hooves is without moving its head closer to the object. They wouldn't be able to tell how high a pegasus was flying if they saw one flying overhead, which would making timing dodging an attack very difficult. But it gets worse!
1. It's very depressing that ponies fur colors are lost on them :c
2. This makes it very very easy for pegasi to "camouflage" their airborne warriors.
This would all look like one color to a pony.
si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-VG024_health_DV_20121105173722.jpg
Simply get a red or green pegasus, have them attack the unicorns while they are in a fores,t and the unicorn literally will not be able to see the pegasi through the leaves overhead. (Trust me, I used to play airsoft with a friend who was red/green colorblind. Camouflage made the game so unfair that I would play in blaze orange.)
But it gets even WORSE!
That's right, horses see better in dim light than in bright light, and pegasi controll the clouds... They can reduce the enamy's ability to see them by simply moving enough clouds out of the way to make the sun shine nice and bright, while leaving enough clouds for them to use as cover...
But it gets worse!
A flashbang would screw them up way more than it does humans... Especially because their hearing is more sensitive than ours. But you dont even need a flashbang... A unicorn would briefly blind itself simply by casting it's own spells. Not totally blind, but that sudden bright flare of light would mean it's vision was a bit screwy for a little while and give you a window to counter attack.
But it gets even worse!
See, Pegasi can't possibly have equine vision and fly. The depth perception issue would mean they all died trying to land or fly arround obstacles... so this wouldn't apply to them. Their vision must be at least human level to pull that off, and is probably raptor level given what RD is capable of seeing while in the air. Yes, it's just 1 datapoint, but there's a rule for statistics when you jsut have one datapoint. Assume your data is typical of the set. It's extremely unlikely your datapoint was taken from either extreme and is most likly somewhere in the middle.
True, but as shown here, they... They have a very hard time doing that.
I meant they could stay high up, then dive like a paragine falcon and impale you with a spear. But, well if you want to talk relativistic kill missiles... YOu dont need to aim that well or have explosives if you can get high enough and carry a big enough object. Ever here of the THOR system? It's a real life weapon the airforce designed and allegedly hasn't launched (But they may have back in 2012).
TLDR; you get a tungsten poll about the size of a telephone poll, point one end, carry it into space, and drop it. When it hits the ground the kenetic energy release of the drop is comparable to a small nuclear bomb. Obviously, pegasi cant get things into space, but they dont need to! Upper layers of the atmosphere woudl do for leveling an entire city block. Get a bunch of pegs to carry it up, use a telescope to get the vague direction for the drop, drop it. Drop it, and several hundred more, using the pre-guided weapon strategy from WWII of carpet bombing. Only with big heavy "darts" that will flatten entire buildings on impact, and maybe even collapse neighboring structures.
Oh, and winds arnt' going to make the drops go off target. Pegs can just go "no wind now plz, kthxbai!"
I'm sure they do! Earth Ponies being "HA good luck getting food without us, assholes!" Kinda hard to fight when you're starving to death. As for unicorns, they must have some magical defenses or they wouldnt' exist, but still, pegasi are god damn terrifying!