I'd vote in earnest, but I've not wandered about and looked at it much.

However, tentatively, that sounds like a good idea.

449010
Well, I'd ask every popular and good writing I know, and many that I don't to contribute to the site.

And I'll bugger a few folks to fix things up.

Yes.

I say yes

As in, no longer be a group of editors/proofreaders? Why can't we have both?

449069
We could, but we need more editors and prereaders. Attracting attention to the site is a good method of getting that done.

I don't have enough experience with it to cast my vote either way.

449091
Well, what would you want out of a site like that?

Yesiree, bob.

449087 Alright, I'm just saying that this statement—

Should SALT (and by extension my Fimfic group) become a directory of guides to writing fanfiction?

—implied to me that we'd no longer be any sort of proofreading site. Which worried me. I'm on board with the idea of adding a directory.

449114
Ah, sorry.

I'm just saying, many people are demanding more attention on the blog, and I can't give it to them. So, by creating a successful directory of guides and by posting some guides (by people with good reputations) we might get that attention and our... 'customers' will profit from it.

I don't know enough about SALT to say either way.

Sure

If I could make any change, it would be that a single editor from the group would "claim" a story and help the author see it through, or at least for as long as they need it. As it is, the editing is very "feast or famine", and it's either a ghost town or awfully overwhelming for new writers.

We need more editors, and a way for them to give more one-on-one teaching. If we're just going to do posts on skills and pitfalls, we could just as easily post links to WandererD's blogs.

I think we need to do a bit of recruiting to the TWE's approved members, see if we can get them interested in actually coaching writers who are ready, willing, and able for the help. How's that sound to you, 449139? I know it would help me from wanting to gargle a shotgun barrel every few days once I've gone through awful fic after awful fic.

449245
We do have a thread where authors ask for reviews. We also have a thread for authors looking to get their stuff out of the folders by asking for one of us to help them edit their stuff.

But do you mean just moving our reviewers over to SALT, or SALT moves to us? Because I know either way, someone would be unhappy with a group dying unless we did a full merge, which would then bring into question who leads and other such potentially silly stuff.

me from wanting to gargle a shotgun barrel every few days once I've gone through awful fic after awful fic.

I know that feel. Some stuff... It's just bad... So terribly bad...

Yes, but only if you include pepper.

449276
Hmm, I wouldn't mind merging. SALT can be renamed, and the site could use a clean-up.

449129

I'll write a guide about how to write dirt poor HiE fics and still get tons of views and thumbs ups.

Ain't no party like an HiE party, cause an HiE party just flops.

449303
I'd take it.

449316

Any chance on getting in on this pre reading stuff for SALT? I'd like to steal er.... adapt some ideas to my stories.

Just kidding of course, it would just be nice to help out the community a bit.

Edit: Of course, now that I read what's actually on the site I realize that that was a stupid question.

449325
Sure thing!
Go to the site, pick a story!

I vote yes

I'll probably sound like an idiot for this, but could someone clue me in to what SALT is? maybe a link if it's a website? something like that

449423

Salt is here. And you're right, Ravens should have had that at the top.

449333

I'll be back later to deposit opinions on this. Trust last night of all nights to be the night I decided to be a good Brit and get an early night's sleep.

449129

By posting a reference of guides...

*Cough Cough*, ahem, err... Something got caught in my throat just then... It's out now, though.

Anyway, leaving that aside, here's what I think.

Our fandom already has an abundance of writing guides covering most aspects of fiction writing, so I can't really see the point of trying to add to what is an already saturated pool. I would deeply suggest moving this away from a collection of guides on how to write and towards a collection of guides on how certain writers think you should write. Or something else, I'm too tired to think this through properly.

Also, which Fimfic group? And SALT's getting dissolved?

450434
Both the SALT group, and Under the Raven's Eye, which is a small group for under-appreciated works.

Not as far as I know. But I'd like to either get the group going in a big way, or merge it with a more active group, such as TWE. Your thoughts?

Eeyup.

451181
449114

Hmm... Just got a pm from Ottermatt about this issue. I get the feeling it's going to be a long night.

A merger between TWE and SALT. I'll be honest, and admit that, should it happen, I would probably defect to /fic/. I don't speak for the other members of SALT, but my guess is that cheezesauce would probably do the same: I've seen him bouncing around TTG often enough, anyway.

Anyway, an opener like that needs a reason behind it. Here's mine: The merger between the two would be effectively the same as disbanding SALT. TWE, as a group, has an abundance of members, an organisational structure and, more importantly, a fairly active culture. It has group cohesion. SALT doesn't really have any of those; we're more a collection of individuals, two fimfic groups and a blog. We would be engulfed.

As for why this is a bad thing, for me - personally - my own reviewing and editing style simply does not mesh with the culture of TWE. It's far more suited towards the culture surrounding /fic/.

Discussion on the merger itself should probably take place somewhere else, I don't really know where. Also, Burraku_Pansa, I tagged you in because... well, I know this involves you. No real other reason, I'm afraid dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/emoticons/shrug_Twilight_Sparkle.png

453107>>451181
Well, I got invited to a group chat with the TWE management by virtue of being someone in the group who was available and fairly level-headed.
Here's a few high points:
- A group is likely to be set up at any rate. TWE wants to integrate SALT, and pretty much put the current SALT admins in charge of it because you're the best at what you do, and they want to emulate your style for the in-depth help. Any SALT admin would have the option of admining in the new group, and SALT members would be fast-tracked for mentor status if they wanted to do it.
- The group would be a separate entity from the TWE, just with a common theme/goal. Being accepted to the group would be by invite only, and you would have to apply apart from being a TWE reviewer, so particularly acerbic individuals can be left out, and you'd have to prove your ability to be a teacher in addition to mastering storycraft and such.
- The group would get stories by author's request, pick a writer/story to mentor one-on-one, and go from there. There's really very little chance of ego/rage issues getting built up unless a writer just really doesn't like the critique/advice.

I dunno if anything here assuages your doubts and/or fears, but the TWE management is pretty serious about making this as close to SALT's standards of professionalism as possible.
I'll leave that up to you guys from here on.

453138

I'm working on a formalized proposal, so hold your horses (ha, get it? *is shot*) on deciding things until you know what's going on, 453107

Replied to Matt because relevant post was relevant.

453149
Eagerly awaiting it!

453107

Can you reply to Ottermatt's comment?

453182
Wait, should I send this to you or Aquillo? Or does it matter, since I imagine you'll talk to him about it anyway?

453187
Both would be nice. He's as big a player in this as I.

453107
Thanks for tagging. I would hate to have missed this.

453138
What you're saying does sound better than what I had in my head when I read "merger with TWE", but... Hm. Like, one thing that I've always (or, at least for a while) refused to edit are stories that are terrible, the sort where it's clear that the author actually needs to practice some more and learn the basics before showing everyone his/her writing. TWE deals, at least as far as I've seen and as far as their definition goes, almost exclusively with terrible stories. That's my only real problem with what you've said, at this point. Are we going to have to be dealing with that caliber of story?

Oh, and also, if my opinion matters at all, I'd prefer the group's title not out us as explicitly related to TWE. As in, no "Train Wreck" or anything. No offense to people who are in that group, but on the whole they kind of sort of make themselves look like assholes an awful lot, in my experience. I'd rather we not carry that stigma before anyone even visits our page.

453192
Ah, I agree with the name, Train Wreck is rather... bad.

And I still want there to be a directory of guides, if only a comprehensive list of links to guides around the net. When I started writing, finding a good guide was a real pain.

453192
One of the things that was discussed (no promises, CSquared! I'll be good, I promise! ) was that mentors would claim writers to work with, so you have the option of not taking stories that you just hate, are totally crap, or don't mesh with your views (clop, gore, alicorn OCs, etc).

Personally, I would prefer it that TWE reviewers would recommend the group to writers who seem like they have potential, but just need a mentor to help them work on the storycraft or fine points. I don't think anyone is lining up for the chance to be some ignorant kid's unpaid English teacher.

...

Gods, this has exploded.

@everyone: I'll be back to make comments once I've finished the section of Swords & Sworcery I'm currently on and have got enough tea to keep me awake.

Seems like the tingling feeling I had about NM was correct: this is going to be a long night. [Also, we need a Nightmare Moon emoticon. Can someone bug iloveportalzor about it for me?]

453223
Then that sounds pretty much fine to me. We'll have to see how this plays out, but this all sounds good enough in theory.

I'm off for a while. Nobody go dropping a ton of bombs and disbanding SALT while I'm gone, promise?

453224>>453223>>453208>>453192
Could we kindly refrain from further discussion until I've had the chance to iron out all the crazy ideas we had in Skype and put it into something formal and cohesive? Many of the things you discuss may have been dealt with already, and I don't think you want to waste your time

In theory, I should be done within the hour. Only reason it'll take that long is I'll have to relocate pretty soon, and the move will take time.

Cheers.

453242

Ok, then. Have we decided how we're going to play the information back and forth yet?

Oh, and any update on how soon? My bed is calling to me.

453191

I am? Jeez, you draft one form to make submissions easier and suddenly you're helping run the joint

453192

No problem with the tagging. Do you think we should get cheezesauce in on this as well? Bombedrumbum too.

I think that's all of SALT's active members... Man, we're small.

453138

I won't respond to everything (but responding all the same because I've done it to everyone else), but...

>SALT's reviewing standards
>Professional

Lol

i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/759/both.png

453464
I'm working on it. I thought yesterday was a busy day as far as managing things were concerned, but today is just as busy. So many distractions!

453474

Ok. I might be asleep by the time things come to a head, though.

453465

>[Also, we need a Nightmare Moon emoticon. Can someone bug iloveportalzor about it for me?]

453484
That's fine. Tomorrow's a new day.

Also, I second the motion for a Nightmare Moon emoticon and add in the proposal for a Monocle Spike. Because Mustache Spike isn't classy enough.

453488
Thirded.

453488
Like a Spike.

453484>>453238>>453208
Proposal has been sent.

Redundant comment is rather redundant.

453464
Cheeze should definitely be contacted. I'm not acquainted with Bombedrumbum personally, but yeah, if he's active, he should be told sooner rather than later, too.

Edit: Oh, and is Dan not still active?

453715
Sent... where, exactly? Can we view it somehow?

454390

Dan? Unless that's a nickname for someone, this'll be the first time I've heard of him...