Points of Canon: S8x04 - Fake It Til You Make It · 6:32pm Apr 7th, 2018
Back with our regularly scheduled spoilers.
- Chronology markers: Fluttershy’s animal shelter from Fluttershy Leans In is present. The School of Friendship occurs on screen multiple times, requiring School Daze to have happened, and Rarity’s Manehattan boutique is the primary location of the episode, requiring The Saddle Row Review to happen prior. Rainbow is a Wonderbolt, requiring Newbie Dash to have happened. Maud lives in Ponyville, requiring Rock Solid Friendship to have happened. Mind you, this episode has significant temporal issues within itself.
- Remember the rubber tire in the animal shelter? Well, it’s still there. We still don’t know just where do ponies use rubber tires.
- “You wanna have some lettuce and talk about it?” Ponies eat lettuce. Expected, but not actually a given.
- “The Canterlot Royal Fashion Show is upon us, and the cornerstone piece of my collection just isn’t working!” Canterlot Royal Fashion Show would have to be a regular event, but we don’t know the time period it would repeat at. Being “royal” would also imply it is in some way sponsored by royalty, and most likely, would require this sponsorship to have been established by Celestia alone. I want the story of how that happened.
- “Do you need help knitting? I’ve started making tea cozies. It’s an elephant.” Remember Micro-series #4, the one in which Fluttershy has a “Chamber of Extreme Knitting,” and excels at knitting? Well, it’s jossed dead now: Fluttershy can’t knit worth a damn.
Fluttershy was Rarity’s last choice. She asked, in order, Rainbow, Pinkie, Twilight, Applejack, Starlight, Big Mac, Cheerilee, Granny Smith, Vinyl Scratch, the CMC, Maud.
- So since when Rarity is on speaking terms with Vinyl? Back in The Saddle Row Review she apparently wasn’t.
- Twilight responds with “Sorry, I’ve got a curriculum to make up.” which would actually best place this episode within School Daze – in the time the school is closed – but at the same time, Starlight refuses because she has to work with children, as implied by foals being present, and the school isn’t sealed, which would make it impossible.
- “My calendar’s packed, but I hear Fluttershy’s free.” Maud has a calendar on the wall with days crossed out. The month appears to contain 31 days, in 7-day weeks, which creates a minor problem for me and produces a huge Sandwich Problem for Equestria in general: Celestia controls the Sun. Why the hell would she need months of uneven length?! That said, 31 is just the number of crossed-out days on it: since it’s a grid calendar, which has empty boxes for days belonging to prior and subsequent months, Maud could have easily crossed out one extra for convenience.
- Notice that this means Maud has social activities scheduled for every single day of the month during which this happens.
- Notice also that there is one pony missing from the list when she should be there: Coco Pommel.
- “Oh, darling, it’s easy to track. The store is divided into sections: chic, classic, modern, sophisticated, avant-garde, traditional, and obtuse.” I do wonder what does the word “obtuse” means when applying to fashion.
- “Then it’s just a little ringing ponies up…” Rarity has a crank-operated mechanical cash register, but why the hell does it only have three number positions, while secondary canon cash registers have cents on them, and cents are mentioned all the way back in Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000, I don’t know. Neither I know what those symbols instead of the digits are, because previously, the show would routinely use normal Arabic numbers. Mysteriously, it only has nine buttons, which would require ponies to use base-9 – rather than the more natural 8 or the usually seen 10. What the hell is this thing and which universe did it come from? Notice that when operating it, Rarity does not pull the crank handle. See also RTAC #13.
- “I need something classic but modern, something with drama but also understated.” Looking at the bag on her flank, looks to me like this lady has a cutie mark in shopping.
- “If I may, I’m thinking noir-esque minimalist but with a twist.” Noir is a word, denoting a fashion style. So those noir-style movies referenced in Rarity Investigates are probably called “noir” too. I still wonder why would ponies have them.
- “It’s like you read my mind! Are you a fashion psychic?” Once again, a reference implying that psychic powers are part of pony fiction even if they aren’t a part of pony reality.
“Uh, daily affirmations? Meditation? Ooh! Power posing works wonders whenever I feel intimidated. Try these: Confident Warrior, Gold Medalist, Show Pony!”
- Rarity describes self-help techniques that were generally not a thing in our world before 1960s. Especially meditation.
- Mysteriously, all the power poses are bipedal. Also notice the use of the word “warrior,” which ponies almost never use in the context of their own culture. This episode actually uses it twice.
- Fluttershy’s hair and tail are long enough to tie her up entirely. Clopfic authors take note.
- “We need to leave now if we’re going to catch the train to Canterlot.” That’s where time and space in this episode starts getting strange. Notice also that Rarity uses a pocketwatch, but has no pockets, or even an outfit on her, when all of her assistants do. She does this several times in this episode. See cartoon resolution.
- “The fashion show is in Canterlot tomorrow, and I’ll be up all night, even with the help of all of my assistants!” Remember this line.
“What’s the thread count of this shirt? I can’t be seen in anything less than a thousand.”
- I don’t know since when does thread count matter quite so much in a shirt. Discussing this line with MitchH, we evolved the hypothesis that this guy runs a cloth factory, and otherwise doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
- That thing he’s investigating does not look much like a shirt.
- It’s interesting that he isn’t just a repeat customer – he knows Rarity closely enough to stop her on a street.
- “Oh, I’m afraid I don’t know enough about fashion to satisfy these customers.” Suited for Success had Fluttershy know enough about fashion to impress Rarity, just in case you forgot.
- So how exactly does Fluttershy manage to fall backwards without rearing? Because that’s what she did.
- “If I had meant ‘chevron,’ then that’s what I would’ve said.” See above: Where did the freaky knowledge of sewing go?…
- “Not everypony can pull off a found object, but you… nearly get there.” Found object art is a particular branch of modern art. Now, go read some of the blogs by Bad Horse regarding the history and origins of modern art and tell me: Why would ponies have modern art at all?!
- “I think I need a new character.” Notice that for this one, it was the raccoons picking the look, not Fluttershy. They have to share the blame for what happened.
- “This store is a desperate wasteland of nothingness. Do you have anything in black?” Goth culture is a lot more common in Equestria than previously believed. I blame Princess Luna.
- “It’s not like the futility of shopping can be made better with black leather and metal studs, but they help.” Full Stop. She said “leather.” Not so vegetarian after all, huh?
So, to describe just why the time and space start having issues:
- The raccoons visit the School of Friendship. Never mind how they secure passage on a train, the fashion show is tomorrow.
- Then the Mane 4 assemble and go to Manehattan.
- Then they go to Canterlot to pick up Rarity. At the time, they fetch her right when the show is about to start, so it means it’s tomorrow now.
- Then they go to Manehattan again.
That involves four cross-country trips in the space of two days, and basically means that the Mane 6 spent most of those two days on trains. And school is in session.
- Spike does not understand raccoon language. With him, the raccoons have to communicate by pantomime.
“I’m not Dragon Charades champion for nothin’!”
- So Spike is a “Dragon Charades champion.” I wonder whom does he play this game with, though.
- For that matter, what makes dragon charades different from all other charades?…
- “You are a small-town pony, and your cottage isn’t even in the town!” Confirmation that the location of Fluttershy’s cottage is outside Ponyville city limits, not that this was in much of a doubt.
- “She called them ‘rodents?!’” Well, our raccoons are not rodents… For some reason, this irks Pinkie more than anything else.
- Minuette attends the fashion show twice. She’s so there. The rest of the Canterlot Friends are also present – Lyra, Lemon Hearts, Twinkleshine – but for some reason, scattered across the crowd. Even Bon-Bon is nowhere near Lyra.
- Notably, Rarity’s model is very much like Fluttershy, but is not her.
- As I mentioned above, the rest of the scenes in “Rarity For You” have to occur on the next day. Notice that almost all the prior day’s clients have returned. I figure this implies that being mean to them wasn’t quite as bad for business as it seems, was it?…
- One of the raccoons resuscitates another with an assisted breathing apparatus. I’m not sure if this should be taken seriously, and if it should, whether it should be taken as a sign that ponies have those, or raccoons have them. This device is too small for a pony.
- “Darling, I’d never trust some horrible Saddle Row pony to run my shop.” Selling to them and seeking their approval is perfectly acceptable, though…
- “I’m just sorry you had to leave the Canterlot Royal Fashion Show early.” Further confirmation of the above described episode time table: Rarity left the show “tomorrow” while it was in progress, but before it was over.
- “Have you considered the possibility that the Royal Fashion Show is trying to undercut Rarity’s by continuing on in Canterlot, and not moving the whole affair here?” Now what exactly brought this outburst on?…
I can’t call this a bad episode, – I mean, goth Fluttershy! – but like just about every episode Josh Hamilton wrote, they all seem to be written with the assumption that the show started with Season 5 at best. Which actually seems to be a point of policy with the current show crew.
Friendship is Magic... sixty-three... I think... show that ponies in Manehattan use carriages that look like a) cars out of the forties and b) relatively modern-looking bus. Both types use rubber tires and ponies as "engines". The whole setup looks strange as hell but could give an answer about rubber tires.
Well, I've myself never believed that Apples use pigs for manure or as truffle hunter :).
I missed the leather comment. Could be faux leather, but why would they even have the concept?
Only question now is whether the donors are volunteer, or industrial byproduct.
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Actually, the concept could be imported from griffons, who are unlikely to be vegetarian… That said, I’m sure this is because the writer simply didn’t think about it, they never do.
Remember Mythbusters? Certain episodes would require the use of pig carcasses, and they always took a moment to mention that they were not obtained by butchering, but rather, from a special supplier that allowed pigs to naturally expire from old age.
I suspect this might be a thing with ponies.
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I've tried and failed to do research on pig leather, but I suspect that it would be unusually coarse and unsuitable for clothing-quality leather. And certainly for vellum or parchment.
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Cursory search suggests that pig leather clothing is common.
True, but after working together, it's possible they compared notes. And that's putting aside Vinyl's work with Rarity in "Suited for Success."
No evidence for it beyond the bipedal stance, but I wouldn't be surprised if the poses originated among minotaurs. Iron Will might have brought them over to Equestria.
I'm not too bothered by this. I know my mind's blanked when stressed.
Neighsay's portal spell? Of course, that leaves the question of the raccoons getting to Ponyville in the first place...
Conclusion:
Opening scene has a pair of deer as part of the critter picnic, reinforcing the idea they are not sapient.
Twilight is in the process of making the curriculum though, which suggests to me that this episode should happen during the lengthy slack time available inside School Daze, since I doubt Twilight would open the school and teach classes before she had finished her curriculum.
It is a bit weird. It makes perfect sense for ponies to want to use rubber tires on their carts and taxis, for the same reason we use them on automobiles, but I don't remember seeing any.
As well as jossing season one where Fluttershy actually sews the final Gala dresses. Hamilton!
Probably she got on speaking terms after that, Rarity would want to know someone who had attracted business to her shop.
Yeah, that's weird.
Same as why they need 12 months in a year.
Probably this is after Maud Couple then.
Power Poses also seem like something Iron Will invented and marketed to ponies.
Discord's been quite influential in only a few years?
The raccoons seem really problematic here, in the sense that they come off as even more sapient than Angel ever does. They wear fancy uniforms and make decent tea, and can ride the train! How are they any different from a mute pony, except I doubt Rarity is paying them a wage?
I would make an argument that since say season 5, the Equestrian Trains have become bullet trains and gotten a lot faster. Also, after the raccoons riding the rails, Twilight could have just been teleporting everyone back and forth. Not the best answer, but the best I could come up with.
Use of claws. Also Twilight may have made this game up to make him feel special, like the dragon code.
This is interesting, since we know Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy comes from Cloudsdale. Either Rainbow considers Cloudsdale a small town, or more likely, she considers the two of them Ponyvillians more than anything at this point.
I found this interesting, ponies have a fairly modern view of city limits then. I had wondered if the edge of town was drawn before or after Fluttershy's cottage.
Aren't her 3 assistants basically Saddle Row ponies? Seems really rude of her to say that.
Yeah, I have to agree. It feels like the writers haven't even watched the first four seasons or so.
Hipster Fluttershy is the best Fluttershy though.
Oh, the mare that was clearly modeled after Mad Men's Joan Holloway speaks, and she has a strong Trottingham accent.
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JoJo's Bizzare Adventure is just the foundational text of Minos. Posing is their main export.
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Replacing the older versions that could be outpaced by a chicken on a scooter.
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I'm curious on how far apart in technique does sewing compare to knitting, because otherwise they still wrecked her skill in that regard since (though without actually seeing the episode yet) she doesn't seem to be stressed at that moment?
Old news. Ponies had modern art all the way back in “Sweet and Elite”, with the parody of Dali’s The Persistence of Memory. That was Surrealism, which came directly from the Dada movement, which was a response to the horrors of The Great War. IIRC, the Dadaists were the first artists to pioneer Found Art. They used the term “readymades” at the time.
Muddying the waters even further: according to “On Your Marks”, pony versions of Salvador Dali, Andy Warhol, and Leonardo da Vinci are all contemporaries. So there’s no way in Tartarus that pony art history could look anything like ours, and the similarities in art styles are just superficial. Pony “modern art” could very well have been inspired by something else, not a war or other horrific tragedy.
Or, sewing and knitting are not interchangeable, and skill in one doesn’t imply skill in the other?
Well, that sent me on a winding journey that ate up several hours of my time. So thank you.
The episode amused me, but I'm gonna take the side that it was definitely bad, not just for the continuity and the timescale, but for Fluttershy's characterisation as well. I have no idea what she was doing here. Did she have a dissociative episode or something?
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Or, continuing with our "the writers haven't watched anything but the most recent seasons" theme, Hamilton may not even be aware that Ponyville wasn't their hometown.
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Yes, but Flutter’s and Dash’s Cloudsdale origins were reiterated as recently as “Flutter Brutter” (season 6) and “Parental Glideance” (season 7). The latter of which Josh Hamilton also wrote.
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As Comnislasher mentioned above, comics do present rubber tires on some vehicles. Occasionally. I am pretty sure I remember seeing no rubber tires anywhere in primary canon – except as part of a swing.
Actually, no, it’s deeper than that.
That’s one of the reasons why I am saying they seem to ignore early seasons: It’s like they believe that the Sisters moving the Sun and Moon is some kind of convenient lie and not really what actually happens.
Mind you, that would mean Hamilton didn’t watch the movie either. Or that they somehow manage to keep these facts about the world entirely disconnected from each other within their heads, which is a mode of thinking entirely alien to me, but apparently, very popular with students the world over.
Plausible, though I wonder where did he learn about meditation then.
Doesn’t quite work: It would have to be over before the fashion show started in that case.
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Sewing and knitting are very different and only marginally related skill sets. (Source: Used to do both. Sewing still occasionally comes up.) It’s perfectly possible to be very skilled in one while being completely incapable of doing the other.
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Yes, yes, but I mention it every time anyway, because I still have no good ideas on how modern art could have evolved in pony society, and nobody offers any either.
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More like, she has a rich inner universe which we otherwise never get to see, in which she constantly runs models of what would entirely different ponies do.
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True, though that might be the ur-sandwhich problem, since it begs the question why plants on Equestria are biologically predisposed to need a 360 day year.
Zecora? I think we saw her meditate in magic duel.
I can accept that. I can also accept they're ignoring the comics of Fluttershy being one of the world's greatest knitters. But I think it's really hard to believe a top notch seamstress like Fluttershy would be so proud of such a crappy cozy then.
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Sounds like either The Secret Life of Fluttershy Mitty, which might explain those elaborate cut outs of characters she has in her cottage, or Fluttershy ingested something weird from tea made by raccoons that cause her to hallucinate.
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Pony Earth is an artificial megastructure created by a now extinct spacefaring alicorn civilization, which evolved on a planet that was much more like Earth?
It would be more “zebra culture” than Zecora herself, though, I very much doubt Iron Will has ever interacted with Zecora, but he would come in contact with zebras somewhere…
That is, indeed, a problem.
I vote for the former. I mean, those cutouts turn up at a Daring Do convention later, I can readily imagine Fluttershy being in correspondence with lots of ponies that she never sees face-to-face.
Actually, I don’t have to imagine: She is one of the few characters who are shown receiving mail at all. See Putting Your Hoof Down.
I enjoyed this episode, but for the purposes of canon I think it might need to be quietly shown that back door.
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Ah, that's right! I'd forgotten that one. For some reason, I was thinking that the season five finale was the last time the origin came up. I guess this really is a deliberate characterisation choice.
...Then again, Josh Haber wrote Castle Mane-ia himself, and still managed to forget what the Pony of Shadows was in Shadow Play, so I wouldn't put it past this show anymore for writers to forget things from episodes they wrote...
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Fluttershy being imaginative and a good actor I can understand – Scare Master already established her skill at both. But what confuses me is that her friends told her she was being a bitch multiple times, and this is a lesson that she already learned from the Iron Will incident, yet she kept going.
It's all well and good for her to turn around at the end and claim she was merely pretending, but she could clearly see she was hurting and upsetting people, including her own friends, and she still refused to break character until the very end. She didn't have any problem breaking character from Flutterbat once she was done scaring her friends in Scare Master, so why keep going here? To keep dealing with the Saddle Row ponies? But her friends are actively telling her that she's pissing the Saddle Row ponies off and is going to lose their custom. She's just being a huge bitch for the sake of it. And the only reasons for that I can think of is either that Fluttershy really is just a huge bitch looking for an excuse to let it out, or that she has some manner of psychological issues.
I doubt that's the case. I think it's far more likely that the writers just didn't think deep enough about the world to make the connection between the needs of plant life and how such a calendar would come about. Because, in total fairness, that's digging really deep to find a flaw, and even I never thought about that until you just now mentioned it. So it's probably not so much that Hamilton's entertaining this conspiracy theory for the sake of using a real world calendar, so much as that he used a real world calendar for convenience and thought nothing more of it.
Well, if I'm understanding Bad Horse's essay correctly, he asserts that most modernists were political extremists advocating authoritarianism and glorifying violence, who later tried to falsely claim that their work was a reaction to the mindless violence of World War One. So maybe an appropriate Equestrianisation of that would be that modern art is a pre-existing movement which rejects pony notions of harmony and friendship in favour of either pure chaos or stifling order (reflecting the split between Marxists and fascists in modernism), and which then attempts to frame itself as a reaction to all the villains that were returning in the first few seasons.
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Could be both. Or maybe… Here’s a hypothesis:
Fluttershy is impressionable. She seeks her place in the world through imitating others, even when she is not capable of this long term – it’s emotionally draining, difficult, and she constantly stumbles into trying to be “holier than the Pope,” so to speak. Crowds lock this mechanism out because she is overwhelmed with stimuli, trying to fit too many expectations at once. Eventually, early in her childhood, she came to see that as a flaw, one that she seeks to suppress – by avoiding others, by primarily interacting with animals who, in turn, seek to imitate her, and eventually, it’s this fear of “going overboard” that manifests as what we know as her shyness, when the actual process is more complicated.
Over time, certain events give her a boost in confidence, which leads to her relaxing this policy – and then snapping back when she goes overboard again.
Which is what I meant by saying “Or that they somehow manage to keep these facts about the world entirely disconnected from each other within their heads…”
I might be in the minority when thinking like this about fiction, but I can’t help but consider the consequences of every little thing – as well as the consequences of what made the little thing happen in the first place. With a human-based universe, most of this doesn’t arise, because those precursor-consequences would match: You don’t wonder why a fantasy world with elves and dwarves has cups with handles, because most or all of the characters have hands like humans do. Pony universes trip this thought pattern all the time for me.
Plausible, actually, though the phase when it reframes itself would be very recent and actually very active – after all, those returning villains are the events of the last 2-4 years at most.
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I'm the same, though probably to a lesser degree, so I get it. But most writers won't think about details that small, and I do have to concede that it's a small detail. The calendar question is a valid critique that it's entirely reasonable to make, and I normally don't give the writers leeway on this because I long ago ran out of patience for this kind of thing, but this I can forgive.
Rarity was looking at modern art exhibits in Sweet and Elite, wasn't she? I think recent and active is definitely possible, especially if we assume that these artists and their style was already a pre-existing thing which is just being given a new PR angle.
Even setting the shirt issue aside, with thread counts above 400, you’re probably just paying extra for no appreciable difference in quality—and with thread counts above 800, the maker is probably counting “creatively” to artificially inflate their thread count. So this pony asking for a shirt with 1000 threads per square inch definitely doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Or if he does know, then this is conspicuous consumption in action: he doesn’t care about the actual quality of the garment; he just wants something with the right buzzwords so he can show off to others. His specific wording “I can’t be seen in anything less” certainly suggests it.
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4835823 In a way I think you're both right. I think Fluttershy has some real issues letting out her anger (except when it comes to her brother), and part of why she began acting increasingly rude to the customers was that she was reacting to the stress of running the store and was annoyed with the rude customers themselves, and Fluttershy was subconsciously driving them out of the store for peace of mind.
That said, I also agree she has a rich inner life and, like some empathetic introverts, relies on personality mirroring to get along with individuals she isn't yet close with in one on one situations. (That may well be how she started going to the spa with Rarity back in the day). The fact that Rarity had to fire all three of her personas, but then Fluttershy immediately was contrite and apologetic suggests to me that she was deeply invested in them.
Also, I'm right because tea made by trash pandas is definitely not hygienic and will make you sick.
Not exactly. It's confirmation that Rainbow thinks of Fluttershy's cottage as being outside of town. It says nothing about the strict legal status of it, or even whether the town has a formal boundary of any sort.
Possibility: After chucking the EEA regulations and getting her school placed under her purview, she now has to make a curriculum from scratch, instead of by the EEA's specific standards. School Daze has happened, and the school is unsealed, but it will be a bit of time before it can re-open properly now. Also, to continue this line of thought, the school isn't a year round school (at least, not anymore if it was before) but will be more like a summer school, or otherwise only taking a portion of the year, as it is not specifically academical. Which is how the Mane 6 and Starlight can have lives outside of it.
I blame Pinkie.
Activities, not necessarily social ones.
Or he is a dragon and charades champion, thus, a dragon
charades champion.
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me too.
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and a 35-day month (five weeks×10=350) is bad because…?
Anime cut-outs. Super-scare proficiency (and, in fact, rendition of her fears). The ability to understand Discord and bring him back to his chaotic self.
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examining "what of it?" is a thought pattern that must be cultivated.
Fluttershy falling on her back, which is unnatural for basically all animals but especially egregious for wingèd ones…ugh.
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It’s not, but there could be a lot of other cycles that fit a 30-day month better that we are not immediately aware of.
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alas, because Maud has 31 days marked off here, not 35…but it's not necessarily the first of the month, so prior days need not be occluded. But, 31 means 28 is out, because they'd not print five rows.