Ponies Aren't Hobbits, They're Dwarves · 5:14pm Feb 5th, 2018
A common writing fumble I see in pony fanfiction?
People treating ponies as Hobbits, when in actuality they would be more comparable to dwarves (fantasy dwarves). By this, I mean people tend to treat them as 'light and small' creatures. This is not the case.
A pony of the height we see in the show (estimated to be about four feet tall) would actually be around 600 lbs or as much as 800, bigger ponies like Big Mac would naturally weight much more. Princess Celestia may actually weigh over a ton. Ponies are surprisingly dense for their size and generally weight more than a horse of a comparable size.
A pony is actually, for its size, comparably stronger and denser than a horse of the same size would be. While Pegasi and Unicorns are weaker than Earth Ponies and likely lighter, they'd still probably weigh much more than you do and I would imagine still physically stronger than you.
Combine this with how fast the ponies can run and...well, if Applejack were to do a full speed tackle into your knees, you likely would have broken knees at best. And for the love of Celestia, NEVER try to grapple with a Pony. Low center of mass naturally beneath yours plus greater physical strength means putting you on the ground is easy for them while you doing the same to them is nearly impossible. An Earth Pony's super strength would make it literally impossible.
Thus, ponies are rather than the Hobbit-like animals fanfiction tends to like to portray them as, actually more comparable to a faster version of a dwarf: small, compact, dense, and HEAVY.
Now, someone is going to say 'but such and such character easily lifted them'. This is true, but most characters who have easily lifted a pony seem to be pretty dang strong themselves, like Iron Will (Discord is Discord, logical doesn't apply to Discord, and even if it did, he's got a lion arm which implies he's probably physically rather strong) or another pony. Gilda being a griffon would also be abnormally strong for her size, as mythology would dictate.
We have never seen a human pick up a pony in G4 (Megan might have, but do remember Megan is a farmer who'd regularly be lifting large haybales and other heavy lifting and probably much stronger than she looks), but I would imagine it'd be nothing resembling easy.
So remember: ponies aren't Hobbits, they're speedy dwarves. Thank you.
And of course as one story on here said it best about dwarves (and ponies to boot) "I'm not short. I'm a mini ass-kicker!"
Sorry that just came to mind reading this.
Makes sense.
There's a song about digging holes that I'm now picturing the Pie Family singing:
that's just earth ponies though
what of the pegasi and unicorns?
4790116
I addressed that: they're not as strong or heavy, but only in comparison to Earth Ponies, they'd probably STILL be stronger and heavier than a human is.
4790126
i'm not sure you're getting me here. pegasi can't be any heavier than a human. can't be. they wouldn't be able to keep themselves in the air otherwise. this is, in part, due to their bird-like skeletal structure(hollow bones, etc.).
4790132
Ah, but here's the thing: Pegasi CAN'T physically fly by our laws of physics: they explicitly NEED magic to fly, as shown when Tirek draining their magic took away their ability to fly.
IE, Pegasi ARE too heavy to fly normally, but their magic somehow compensates for it.
Based on the more recent stuff we've seen, at least comparing ponies to Equestria Girls humans (who may not be the same size as earth humans), ponies don't seem to be any bigger than a St. Bernard.The mass would scale accordingly.
Of course, the arguments of earth pony strength and low center of gravity still stand, we've seen a town of earth ponies wrestle buffalo to a draw, and buffalo have to be ten times the size of ponies.
4790134
let's just agree to disagree and move on, as you're clearly not going to see things my way(read: the right way), and your headcanon is, while logical on some fronts(earth ponies being the denser of the races), immensely imbecilic on all other fronts(the only pegasus that dense would be Rainbow Dash, and that's because her head is so damn thick).
4790137
no, they're right about ponies being 4 feet tall. it's been scientifically proven. i wish i had the diagrams proving it on me, but you'll just have to take my word for it for now.
4790139
I agree to disagree, but dude, that's immensely rude and makes you come off as an arrogant jerk. Just because you disagree with me does not give you the right to call my opinion 'imbecilic' and 'not the right one'.
Because at the end of the day, we're both coming up with mental images of how fictional characters must work. And unlike me, who gave CANONICAL information to back up my argument (that it is CANON that pegasi cannot fly without their magic, meaning they logically must be too heavy to fly without it), you basically said 'your idea is stupid and you're stupid for having it'. Which again, makes you sound like you're arrogant rather than wanting to have an intelligent conversation.
4790137
That's still make them about 3 feet tall, which wouldn't be all that much smaller and still probably way about 200 pounds minimum if scaling is taken into account.
4790152
you only have one piece of evidence to that end, and even that's kinda dubious. until you have more proof, and more solid proof, i'm gonna have to doubt you. and yes, your idea is stupid, and for one simple reason: if ponies are so dense and heavy, how are you gonna cuddle them without being crushed to death?
and for the record: i'm not saying that ponies are stupidly light either. i'm saying that they're human weight, maybe a little bit heavier.
4790158
Okay, how's THIS evidence:
How do ALICORNS work when they're the combination of all three tribes' capabilities?
Logically, for Alicorns to have Earth Pony strength and power, they have to have the same density of bone and muscle that an Earth Pony would need to SURVIVE their own strength. If Pegasi could ONLY fly by having hallow bones, how could an Alicorn have the density and strength of an Earth Pony and still fly like a Pegasus? If it's the magic, that's not a problem.
Further support: TIREK can fly from absorbing Pegasi magic, and REALLY fast too. While that's in part due to HOW MUCH he absorbed, Tirek's size scales with how much magic he has, and shook the ground with his movements. Tirek also didn't have wings AT ALL, meaning pegasi magic was literally the only thing letting him fly PERIOD.
As for the last question: you get down on your knees and cuddle them, just like real people do to ponies.
And dude, call me stupid one more time and I'm reporting you. I'm trying to be civil, you disagree with me fine, but I will not stand here and be insulted by you for having a different opinion from you and not antagonizing you in any way. I NEVER tolerate a person being disrespectful of anyone's opinions on anything I create, and that includes this one. You have a different opinion, feel free to share it respectfully, but the moment you insult someone, me or otherwise, I won't have it.
4790163
oh no, you'll report me, i'm sooooo scared~
report me all you like, it won't change how wrong you are.
and really? REALLY? THAT'S how you suggest we cuddle them? that's how you cuddle a dog, not a pony.
you are wrong on all fronts here, and you can't just admit it. i was willing to be nice and give you some points, but NOPE! you couldn't try to see things my way. but naw, my way's wrong(apparently). you couldn't just FUCKING TRY to see things my way, could you? oh, who am i kidding, of course you couldn't. that'd require you to get off of that damn high horse.
4790168
You explicitly ASKED for evidence, I gave you evidence.
You absolutely disrespect my opinion, insult it, disregard it without giving any of your own counterpoints, and proceed to treat it as the 'wrong' one, explicitly say so, and then proceed to insult me no matter what I say on the matter.
What right do you have to DEMAND my respect for your idea when you've shown me none at all?
I respect your opinion, it's a perfectly fine opinion that works as headcanon as well as mine does, but no, I'm not going to say 'you're right' when I don't agree with it, only 'let's agree to disagree' and respect each other's opinions.
4790172
you didn't respect my opinions from the damned start. don't even act like you did. that's why i haven't(and still wont until shown actual respect) respected your opinions. it isn't fucking rocket science: give, and you shall receive. and while we're here, might as well tell me how i'm "wrong".
4790177
Okay, let's look at the progression of this conversation, shall we?
Me: Posts blog.
You: Ask reasonable question.
Me: Politely answer it.
You: Gave another reasonable question.
Me: Gave canonical evidence to support my opinion.
You: Say 'let's agree to disagree', then promptly call my idea stupid while saying 'my idea is right and your idea is wrong'.
Me: Said 'fine, let's do that', but pointed out how insulting what you said was in how you said it.
You: Continues to insult me and call my opinion stupid.
YOU started the disrespect. Had you simply said 'let's agree to disagree', I WOULD HAVE. You were the one that decided to say 'my idea is right, yours is stupid and wrong'.
Tell me, exactly WHEN did I show disrespect your YOU idea first other than not agreeing with you? I can point out where you insulted me, but exactly when did I insult you?
4790180
did you not see what i did?
even when i was talking shit about your idea, i said that some parts made sense. lemme quote it for you:
do i get the same treatment? no. you just gloss over it all and say that i'm wrong.
and you have yet to tell me how exactly i'm """wrong""".
4790182
Okay, look.
In the SAME EXACT COMMENT, you insulted me immediately BEFORE (by claiming yours was 'the right way' and thus mine is inferior to yours) and after (by calling it ', immensely imbecilic on all other fronts').
Had you said:
Let's agree to disagree. I agree with you on the Earth Pony's being denser and stronger' part, but disagree on pegasi and unicorns.
There would have been no other problems. It was the fact that respectful comment was surrounded on both sides by disrespectful and insulting comments that cause the problem.
If you want respect by giving it, insulting a person is NOT a way to get it.
4790185
still not seeing any respect for my opinion...
also still not seeing any reasons as to how said opinion is wrong...
4790189
Then here:
I respect your opinion. It's just as valid as my own because we're both theorizing about a fictional species of tiny horses and until the show gives a clear cut answer one way or another, neither of us can definitively say the other is right.
It makes sense that pegasi, as flying animals, would have hallow bones, I simply find them not being able to fly without their magic as more compelling evidence to the contrary. So let's agree to disagree.
I appreciate you at least agree with me on Earth Ponies and possibly unicorns being more dense and weigh more than humans.
4790194
there.
was that so fucking hard?
though, i kinda take umbrage with the whole "fictional" part. what i think you meant to say was "fictional in this reality".
4790144 There's an old line from season 2 measuring Scootaloo against a candy cane that Twilight see's out a train window and refers to it as "8 feet tall," though that is questionable at best, since we have no idea what they mean by "feet".
More recently, we've been able to compare things more directly in Equestria Girls, looking at things like Angel the bunny and other objects, and using them as a direct comparison. Based on that ponies a ponies head is below waist height of a human. Of course, that's an Equestria Girls human, who are shaped very differently from real humans, so you could always argue that EQG humans are actually 7 feet tall or something.
4790153 That's a good point, as quadrupeds with hefty barrels they are probably pretty dense.
4790202
Pretty much, yeah on the fictional thing.
Though the irony with this is, we still can both be right in a sense. Let me explain:
If Pegasi are, as you said in your comment, the same weight as a human or a little heavier, that doesn't contradict the core idea: that ponies would be more like dwarves than hobbits. This is because, being smaller and shorter than a human, their center of mass is still much lower than a human's and they still have sufficient weight and physical strength to take advantage of it, unlike a hobbit who only way in the 60 pound range.
So in a way, we can both be right: if pegasi have hallow bones and are about the same weight as a human or a little heavier as you proposed, that does mean they'd still function more like a dwarf than a hobbit in terms of how they'd fight due to still having a high enough mass and strength to take advantage of having a lower center of mass than a human does.
4790212
i disagree. i still think that they'd be somewhere between real-world horses(heaviest) and humans (lightest(if we're using adults only, anyways)).
and i happen to be a firm believer in multiverse theory, so there's that.
4790217
Fair enough, but it wouldn't really matter how heavy they are so long as they're A) Sufficently strong, which given we've seen them carry heavy loads while flying, they'd be, and B) aren't extremely light.
Let me make this comparison: ever watched MMA and notice how fighters go for each other's legs when they want to pick them up and slam them? That's because they're getting under their center of mass where they can easily disestablish them and throw them off balance. Real life dwarves and fictional Hobbits don't have an advantage because their physical strength and weight is too low, but fictional dwarves (which are heavier than humans) and even the lighter pony races if they're anywhere in the range of a human's weight would have one because their center of mass is much lower, and their default height is well below a human's center of mass. This means anything a human's height would have their center of mass higher and have to kneel down dangerously low to get under a pony's center of mass.
And even if pegasi ARE lighter than that, then their speed with compensate for the lower mass, because momentum is mass times velocity, pegasi have less mass but being the fastest tribe, have more velocity to compensate. So a full speed tackle to the knees would be as devastating from a pegasi as from an Earth Pony or unicorn because the increase in speed makes up for the decrease in mass.
Basically: I'm saying the idea still applies even if pegasi are much lighter than the other tribes.
4790230
okay, you've lost me.
i thought we were talking about weight and density? where did strength come into this?
4790233
More in regards to lighter tribes.
But even if we take away strength here, here's the two important factors:
Ponies, even lighter ones similar in mass to a human, would have a lower center of gravity due to being shorter and stockier, and that's an advantage because it means it's harder to get underneath that center of gravity and mass to knock them over.
And two: Pegasi being lighter doesn't necessarily decrease their advantage from this, as they are canonically fastest of the tribes.
Momentum (what matters if one crashes into your knees) is Mass times Velocity, pegasi have less mass but more velocity.
If something has a Mass of 3 and a Velocity of 2, it's Momentum is 6, if something has a Mass of 2 and a Velocity of 3, its Momentum is still 6.
So lighter weight doesn't really mean the base point of ponies being more like dwarves than hobbits is wrong, it just means their speed would compensate for the lighter mass.
Ie, our core ideas aren't mutually exclusive.
4790236
you're still confusing me.
4790239
Basically, let me put it this way:
Applejack weighs more than Rainbow Dash, but Rainbow Dash is faster.
Momentum, and thus the amount of impact you'd experience if one of them tackled you in the knees, is calculated by multiplying mass times velocity (or speed).
Applejack has more weight than Rainbow, and thus greater mass. Rainbow Dash is faster than Applejack, and thus has great velocity. If Rainbow Dash went fast enough, her hitting you in the legs would have just as much of an impact as Applejack because her going faster makes up for her being lighter.
4790245
why are we talking about fighting styles and strength?
i thought we were talking about weight and density?
4790246
Because Pegasi have less weight than Earth Ponies, but it ultimately would be balanced by their speed, and this entire blog was based on the idea ponies fighting style would logically be closer to that of a dwarf than a hobbit because of their lower center of mass and, relatively, higher weight.
If Pegasi don't have the same weight as the other races, their speed would provide the same benefit as the higher weight would because the impact they can generate would be the same due to weight and speed being interchangeable as far as momentum was concerned.
Thus the core idea of the blog can still work even if pegasi are lighter in weight than the other tribes are, so there's no real contradiction between our beliefs in regards to the core idea of how portraying ponies as more dwarf-like in terms of combat abilities.
Excellent article my good man! AJ full body tackling you in the knees would slam into you like a cannon ball and Celestia could probably pitch a car over her head without much problem. To put it all in a nutshell, Rarity (especially with her percent for punching changelings) would probably kick the *** of anyone reading this article.
Culturally they're definitely hobbits.
4790428
Oh, I know.
I meant in terms of combat ability.
I'm still convinced that Fluttershy is either a Hobbit, or stole Bilbo Baggins's House and locked him in her shed.
Where do you get the idea ponies are so heavy?
4790645
Real life. A four foot tall real world pony is anywhere between 300 and 800 pounds and weighs more with proportionally more strength than a horse the same height. They also have denser bones.
4790405
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
And yeah, fighting a pony would not be fun if you were a normal human.
4790405
True. I've dealt with real-world ponies. If the Equestrian ones are anything like them, they could very easily knock most humans head over heels with only a little effort.
4790707
Got it. The more you know.
4792132
I've honestly never thought about Ponies like this.
Also, what about strong stallions like Big Macintosh? Because for a pony of his size, he'd bigger than any traditional dwarf.
4800029
He'd still be smaller than a human, so most still apply, but the same things would still apply regardless, so he'd basically be built like a tank.
4800478
Fair point.
So if I were to get into a fight with a pony, my only option will be distance and long range weaponry. Good to know.