Points of Canon: Rainbow Rocks

Because you can’t eat just one.

• The Sirens are inciting a riot. No, really, if I were the manager of this particularly unfortunate eatery, such a large density of individual arguments would be enough to make me call the police. The only reason this wouldn’t happen would be the management engaging in their own argument.
• “That was barely worth the effort, Adagio.” Actually, was there a particular need to wear hoods while singing? They never do that afterwards, so why?

• “I’ll tell you one thing, being stuck here with you two isn’t making this world any more bearable.”

  • There is no reference whatsoever to the time they spent being stuck, by the way. They certainly don’t behave like they have spent a thousand years here, if you ask me.
  • The timing of this line is exact: It is the moment Sunset put on the Element crown in Equestria Girls. The pillar of magic piercing the sky can be seen from where the Sirens are sitting. Notice that they’re definitely in the same town, and actually pretty close – barring camera shenanigans, they can’t be more than a few kilometers away. There are hills between them and Canterlot High, though.
• “Did you feel that?!” Adagio addresses Sonata and Aria without even checking if they followed her out. The scene had to have been cut, though – a lot more time elapsed between the pillar of magic and the rainbows originally.

• “But this world doesn’t have Equestrian magic.”

  • Unless you count the Stump of Harmony in Legends of Everfree? There’s a good chance it was magical even before getting activated. In any case, the Sirens haven’t found any Equestrian magic. Not even Sunset’s Communication Journal, which definitely qualifies.
  • Notice that they refer to “Equestrian” magic throughout the movie. Which would actually imply that at the time they were banished, the term “Equestria” was in sufficiently wide use. But weren’t they sea creatures? In fact, have they always been sea creatures? There’s that storyline which starts in Legends of Magic #7, which is the “new and authentic story of the Sirens,” but it doesn’t clear up the issue either.
• “And we’re going to use it to make everyone in this pathetic little world adore us!” A rather tame goal, don’t you think? You’d think it were a means to an end, but nope, not really.
• Even if Sunset was popular at some point, which I think she wasn’t, she is openly unpopular now.
• “I used frosting instead of paste!” Normally, that wouldn’t hold whatever she pasted on for long.

• “I just wanted to tell you all how pleased I am that so many of you are going to participate in the first ever Canterlot High School Musical Showcase! This is a wonderful opportunity to raise money for all our after-school programs here at CHS. So keep working on those signs and posters. I think it’s going to be one of the most exciting events we’ve had at CHS since the Fall Formal.”

  • This event has not been attempted before.
  • The purpose is raising funds. Notice that Legends of Everfree refers to the camp trip being paid for with funds raised by after-school activities, and I wonder if this is it, or there were other interesting things that happened.
  • Notice that Celestia mentions a Fall Formal as a recent event in the past, but not a Spring Fling. Which would mean that the said event hasn’t happened yet, and the Humane 6 are still in their third school year somewhere. Notice that this would involve either skipping or not skipping over a winter, and I can’t tell which is it.
• “A demon. I turned into a raging she-demon.” Yep, I’m pretty sure Sunset neither expected nor liked the results. Notice also that throughout the movie, nobody reminds Sunset of her earlier transgressions. If anything at all, it’s always the Fall Formal.
• For some reason, the entire band only gets one microphone. Considering they’re playing electric guitars and there is no sign of amplifiers, that’s pretty strange. Cartoon resolution, I hope – some subsequent shots include a wire connecting the microphone to something which isn’t present in the first shot it appears in, so probably, more equipment is missing.
• Pinkie’s drum kit is customized: It has a horseshoe with a rainbow trail. For the record, a full drum kit sets one back around US$500 and used to be more expensive a decade ago.
• “I just wonder why it happens. Princess Twilight took her crown back to Equestria. Shouldn’t that mean she took all the magic back with her?” As a side note, Twilight also attributes it to the lingering magic of the Element – but why did it fizzle the moment the portal closed, then?
• “It was my idea to start the Rainbooms so we could be in the showcase. Plus I’m the lead singer and guitarist.” A statement nobody is denying.
• “Uh, I don’t suppose any of our friends from, uh… out of town might come?” Someone told Flash where Twilight came from – it would be difficult to hide, anyway – but notice that he’s compelled to use euphemisms even though he’s explicitly among the principal participants of the whole mess.
• “Someone is quite the smitten kitten. Oh. Sorry. I always forget you and Flash used to be an item.” “It’s okay. Flash is a great guy and all, but I never really liked-him liked him. I was just using him to become more popular.” This statement is not in agreement with Sunset’s face, however, which is what prompts Rarity’s apology. And remember that it was Flash who dumped Sunset, not vice versa, at least according to Fluttershy. I think she’s deluding herself in an effort to get over him. Unfortunately, that makes her feel even worse.
• “I volunteered to show some new students around the school.” The Sirens didn’t just walk in – their arrival is expected, and Luna is explicitly calling Sunset to guide them, so they must have come in with paperwork. Sirens have resources to cook up paperwork. Considering that they easily implant favorable suggestions into Celestia and Luna, it’s a safe bet that they got the said paperwork in the same way.
• “That’s the science lab. Computer lab is in there.” Canterlot High has those things.
• “We’re having a big musical showcase this weekend!” The Showcase happens on the weekend, and today is a weekday of the preceding week. Yes, we kinda need to track those things with these people…
• “Those are pretty. Where did you…” Now, is Sunset fishing for a conversation piece after the scene that Sonata triggered, or can she detect magic in some way?
• “That’s just it. I can’t put my finger on it. They just acted sort of… strange around me.” Well, if Sunset can detect magic, she is not conscious about it.
• “Their negative energy will give us the power we need to get this entire world to do our bidding.” So let’s get this straight. Siren voices produce compulsion in listeners, while “negative energy,” whatever that is, feeds their power to sing, right? Or just feeds them, producing their power to sing indirectly – in the beginning, Aria talks about a “meal.” At what point exactly does magic come into the equation?
• “It’s Taco Tuesday!” But of course. Amusingly, while you’d think this would firmly paint the Sirens as carnivores, there’s a huge list of vegetarian taco recipes…
• Notice that while in Equestria Girls the cafeteria song required a backing track, the Sirens do not seem to use anything of the sort, and still get one.
• “Ohhhh. They’re that kind of ‘off.’” Notice that the entire Humane 6 and Sunset were immune to the mind-affective song. Now, the working theory they come up with is that this is because they pony up when playing music, but Sunset does not get this particular excuse. That said, she doesn’t get to play music until the very end either…
• “Those three are definitely in possession of some kind of dark magic.” The term “dark magic” gets applied so strangely, that it’s quite difficult to work out a useful definition.

• “Even sang a little song to Vice Principal Luna and I.”

  • Luna and Celestia weren’t immune. Which actually limits the chances that they are secretly aware of the goings on beyond the portal considerably.
  • Notice that Luna and Celestia did not get the song treatment until the Sirens decided to sign up for the Showcase. When they originally came in, they really did have proper paperwork.
  • Siren magic has so far been used to make people hate each other both times we saw it, but this is the first time we see direct evidence of it being used to make people like the Sirens.
• “It’s not like we haven’t tangled with dark magic before and totally whooped its sorry butt! Uh, no offense.” “None taken. Again.” Considering I’m pretty sure that Rainbow misused the term this time, I suspect Sunset is more annoyed at Rainbow talking nonsense.
• “And I get the feeling they don’t exactly have cell phones where she’s from.” Based on what exactly?

• “When I was Princess Celestia’s student back in Equestria, she gave me this. Even after I abandoned my studies, I held onto it. Deep down, I guess I knew I was making a big mistake, and I wanted to still have a way to reach out to her. Maybe it still works.”

  • Sunset didn’t keep this communication journal at home, but in a school locker. Why?
  • The book is covered in more dust than should be found in a said school locker, especially after she dug it out from under other items.
  • The journal is at least 30%, maybe as much as 40% full.
• “It used to be that if I wrote something here, it would appear in the pages of a book back in Princess Celestia’s library.” …Wait. Why was the other journal kept in a library?
• “Been a long time since I’ve written these words. ‘Dear Princess Celestia…’” This form of address is traditional, it seems.

Meanwhile in Equestria

• The establishing shot certifies it is not winter in Ponyville.
• Friendship Castle exists. However, the Cutie Map does not: Twilight is reading on the floor where it would be. This by itself sticks the movie into a very narrow stretch of time between Twilight’s Kingdom and The Cutie Map with no chance of deviation, unless you posit that the map mysteriously sinks into the floor when not needed – something we have never seen on screen. Since both the episodes bounding this movie and the episodes bounding Equestria Girls are themselves bounded by the May The Best Pet Win / Tanks For The Memories loop, there is no way in hell for more than 9 months to elapse between the two movies in Equestria, and a much more likely number is 4 or 5. On the Pedestrian side, they haven’t approached the Spring Fling yet, but we don’t know when exactly would that happen.
• Twilight is reading wax-sealed letters. The last time we saw one, in Three’s a Crowd, it was from Cadance. Those, I’m not sure about – the stack is too high. Anything sent from Celestia would be sent via Spike, so where did those come from?…
• Spike is reading a Daring Do story. However, unlike the usual hardcovers, it’s a comic book: thin, and a view from behind Spike’s back reveals panels on the pages. Daring Do comics exist. I wonder who writes those and whether Yearling considers them canon.
• “Even this one that’s glowin’ and vibratin’?” So how exactly did it end up in this particular shipment of books?
• “How is that even possible?” “I have no idea, but it… sounds like they need my help.” Neither Rarity nor Twilight are aware of a magical means for receiving the message with the portal closed.
• “The way Sunset Shimmer described them, I think these new girls sound an awful lot like… the Sirens.” Twilight actually remembers who the Sirens are, and knows exactly which book to pull down for reference.
• “The Sirens were three beautiful but dangerous creatures who had the power to charm ponies with their music. But to maintain this power, they had to feed on the negativity and distrust of others. The more of this negative energy they consumed, the stronger their voices became, and the farther they could spread their dark magic.” The images used to illustrate this narration are exactly the images seen in the book on the table. The subsequent image of Star Swirl also is.

• “If the Sirens had their way, they would have divided and conquered all of Equestria. But a certain Star Swirl the Bearded wasn’t having it. Rumor has it he found a way to banish them to another world… one where he believed their magic power would be lost.”

  • “A certain Star Swirl?” Is there an uncertain one elsewhere?
  • The book is not a first-hand account if “rumor has it” so it’s probably getting excused for a yet another Star Swirl. This one is not white, but very pale blue, and mysteriously, has a luminescent green horn, which is not something seen on any unicorn anywhere else.
  • Notice that neither the narration nor the imagery mention a mirror – just some kind of spell. The notion that the mirror is related to how the Sirens got to Pedestria actually comes from FIENDship is Magic #3.
  • The font used in the book is actually unique, and looks like a strange hybrid of upside-down Sanskrit and Arabic.
• “I hate to burst your bubble, Twilight, but the connection between their world and Equestria will still be totally cut off for a super long time.” Unfortunately, we don’t know for sure how long is super long for Rainbow.
• “And secondly, if the connection is totally cut off, how was Sunset Shimmer able to get a message to Twilight?” “Pinkie, you’re a genius!” The important take away from that is that the connection never actually gets cut off completely. At least, that’s my take on that. The magic of the journal is merely used to force the portal open.
• Twilight starts on constructing the device to reopen the mirror immediately, but notice that we never find out just when did the mirror get moved to the Friendship Castle, and whether it was moved before she started or afterwards. While everypony is in the room when she is done, there’s no indication if they were waiting for her to complete it or just came in for the presentation. I can’t think of a particularly good reason why the mirror would be moved at all until Twilight decided to reopen it – wasn’t Cadance given it for safekeeping? – but at the same time, the Humane 6 have just enough time to get bored waiting for an answer at the portal, but not much longer – for them, the Showcase is still “this weekend.”

• “…And the interval between the two points is defined as the square root of the sum of the squares of the separation between the points along three spatial dimensions.”

  • Which is kind of nonsense which resembles the Pythagoras theorem but isn’t.
  • The device only has a few recognizable features, and all of them are electrical – the Tesla coils and the incandescent light bulbs. The journal is a required component, but we don’t know if it needs to always be there or one time was enough.

• “It could make things pretty confusing if Canterlot High all of a sudden had two of all of you.”

  • Twilight is assuming that upon coming to Pedestria, Mane 5 would look like the Humane 5. Actually, why? She didn’t have the opportunity to compare herself to the Pedestrian Twilight yet. So who fed Twilight the plot device this morning?
  • Would it kill Celestia to give that as the justification for not letting the Mane 5 go the last time? Because that’s certainly better than what she actually said.
• “And don’t forget to dress well.” This is very much a non sequitur.

Meanwhile in Pedestria

• Pinkie plays four jokers. What kind of deck contains four jokers? Most only include two.
• Notice that this time Twilight didn’t pack anything and didn’t wear saddlebags, and upon transfer, the backpack she had in Equestria Girls is likewise absent.
• For that matter, did she write back telling the Humane 6 to expect her or not? She is not shown doing so, and while Rainbow says, “I’m starting to think she’s not coming,” that’s no indication because Rainbow is free to expect Twilight to turn up regardless.
• “For starters, a certain blue-haired guitar player was just askin’ about you.” Hair colors on Pedestrians are as shown, since these are referred to in speech. The jury is still out on skin colors.
• “Flash Sentry was asking about me?!” I.e. she spent the entire season having a crush on the Pedestrian Flash, but ignored the Equestrian Flash entirely as far as we could see. Hmm.
• “She’s got an official title now. The Princess of Friendship!” Notice that Twilight did not have an officially recognized area-of-expertise title before Twilight’s Kingdom.
• “Pretty sweet, huh? It happens to all of us when we play.” Pony up transformations are actual optics rather than any manner of mental illusion, and remain visible in video recordings.
• “Just like when we were able to use it on Sunset Shimmer when she turned into that horrifyingly awful winged monster!” Notice that Twilight does not use the word “demon,” and yet, there are demon costumes on Nightmare Night in Luna Eclipsed.
• “No offense.” “None taken. Heh. I’m used to it.” Really, the Fall Formal is pretty much all they blame Sunset for.

• “There’s a big party tonight for all the bands who signed up to be in the showcase! That would include the Dazzlings.”

  • Both of Photo Finish’s flunkies are crystal ponies Pedestrians. That is, they sport the characteristic gradient hair, normally only seen on crystal ponies. Even among the Crystal Prep students, most don’t have it, and the party for the bands is where these two first appear.
  • Flash is about to come to blows with Snips. I wonder.
  • Notice that Trixie has acolytes. This isn’t the first time we see them in the movie – but the very fact that the Pedestrian Trixie managed to get any is interesting and worth mentioning. That said, her band is called “Trixie and the Illusions,” so maybe they are…
  • And here we see the three Diamond Dogs, with extremely Neanderthal faces. Somehow, they’re at the party for the bands, but never actually turn up later on.
• “It’s the fruit punch, isn’t it? I knew I used too much grape juice!” Actually, why would Sonata be involved in making fruit punch for anyone else to consume?
• “I don’t understand. We’re all together again. Why isn’t this working?” More importantly, why did Twilight expect it would, and just how much control does she have over the whole friendship laser thing? The phrase “I thought the six of us standing together against the sirens would bring out the magic we needed to defeat them” suggests that it’s very little control, but maybe it’s being a human and thus lacking the requisite senses that is the problem.
• “But to defeat me, you drew magic from the crown I was wearing.” Ah, so that’s what they think happened.
• “The band competition! That’s the next time we can be certain everyone will be in the same place at the same time.” There are definitely no major student gatherings between today and “this weekend.”

• “Let’s get to learning that musical counter-spell!” “Well, that’s just it. I don’t know any.” “But I’m sure I could figure out how to write one.”

  • As of this moment, Twilight does not have any experience in using music-based magic.
  • She does have some theory that would allow her to write such a “spell.”
• “Well, last time we were here, Spike and I spent the night in the library.” What, the second one too?

• “Slumber party at my house!”

  • Applejack and Rainbow are playing a console game. The gamepads are interesting in that they only have one analog stick. The shape is most similar to SEGA controllers, but doesn’t match any of them exactly. The game box depicts Mane-iac, actually…
  • “Status update!” Social networks, or at least, Twitter, are a thing.
  • Rarity does a selfie with Fluttershy and Sunset, so selfies are also a thing. This actually became popular only when the front cameras became sufficiently good, though I would be hard pressed to name a year.
  • Twilight writes with her mouth throughout.
• Pedestria has a ridiculous transparent crescent moon too. Sigh.

• I’m going to quote this dialog in full:

  Sunset: Must be nice to have everyone always looking to you for answers to their problems… instead of waiting for you to cause a problem.
  Twilight: Just because everyone expects something from you doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to happen.
  Sunset: Well, that doesn’t stop them from expecting it.
  Twilight: Which only makes things harder because the last thing you want to do is…
  chorus: …let everybody down.

  Sunset’s half of this dialog does not correspond well with her opening line. If we’re looking for the actual source of the disagreement between Sunset and Celestia, I expect that meditating on this exchange is how you come up with an answer.

• Maud feeds Boulder a breakfast cereal. Notice that it remains in a trail as she walks. I wonder who gets to clean up.

• “Hey, hey, listen…”

  • Notice that they’re practicing in Applejack’s barn, but the drum kit is here, so Pinkie is hauling it all over.
  • So what happened to Twilight? She normally has perfect pitch, but not this time.
  • It’s interesting that Twilight’s microphone is plugged into the amp, but the guitars aren’t. I still think this is cartoon resolution rather than anything else.
• “You don’t have time for any of this! You’re supposed to check in at the Battle of the Bands in fifteen minutes!” Which definitely isn’t enough time to pack the drum kit. Just saying.
• “Welcome to the first ever Canterlot High School Battle of the Bands.” They haven’t had a battle of the bands ever, either.
• Magnets as strong as the ones Photo Finish uses on Rarity are actually bloody dangerous and come in boxes with stringent warnings.
• Snips and Snails using the spotlight against Fluttershy is not just mean but also suggests they know her anxieties rather well.
• “You’re never gonna get away with this.” Sunset knows every dark corner in school. She lurks in them.
• When the Dazzlings are on stage, there’s a drum kit behind them, and it’s not Pinkie’s drum kit. Yes, I’m worried about the logistics of drum kits.

• Notable performance tidbits:

  • The Pedestrian Bon-Bon and Lyra are together a lot more often than the Equestrian ones, just for the record.
  • Bulk Biceps is all about violins. No sax anywhere, though.
  • Trixie’s acolytes use what looks like portable DJ mixers in lieu of actual instruments. The wiki calls them samplers, I’m not so sure, because I think I’m seeing a turntable in one of the shots…
• Luna crosses out cutie mark based logos on the board and other characters, notably Flash, look at them, so yes, cutie marks are actually there and aren’t just a visual device.
• “If you were really all that, Rainbow Dash, you wouldn’t have needed to bring in some magical ringer to have half a chance. Everyone’s talking about it.” Twilight’s origins are not a secret to anyone in school, it appears.
• “Close the curtains? Unplug her amp? Give us a chance to deal with the situation?” Cartoon resolution limits: Even if we don’t actually see Rainbow’s guitar plugged in, it is.
• “The band that will be joining the Dazzlings in tonight’s finals… The Rainbooms!” Which is the outcome the Sirens have very obviously manipulated, but then they immediately manipulate Trixie into trapping them. The idea is to get the Rainbooms to argue between themselves and reap negative energy from more magically charged victims than usual, apparently, though I’m really wondering what would they do if this had the opposite effect. It has been known to happen to people stuck in elevators after all…
• Whatever other technical skills Sunset may or may not possess, operating a mixing console correctly is not on the list.
• Sunset actually sees the streams of “negative energy.” We don’t know for sure if anyone else does at the other occasions, but this time, trapped under the stage, Sunset definitely does.
• “Why isn’t she under their spell?” “Never takes off her headphones.” I.e. not hearing the Siren’s song is enough not to be affected, even when in their vicinity.
• “How are we supposed to play over them from up here?” Amusing as it is, Vinyl’s transformer car is technologically possible – just see the kind of stuff Colin Furze is up to – but only if the wheels aren’t actually speakers, and the real wheels are just hidden after the transformation. I’m also pretty sure it would be quite expensive to make. It is also unlikely to be street legal, though that heavily depends on the local laws. And surely, hardly anybody would make one of these if it weren’t part of their primary bread winning activity. Pedestrian Vinyl Scratch has to be doing street raves.
• Notice that nobody is surprised that Vinyl is helping, just like nobody wonders how did Spike attract her attention when she always had her earphones on. There’s a story in it for someone.
• “Don’t need to hear a crowd / Cheering out my name / I didn’t come here seeking / Infamy or fame” Notice that according to the earlier scene, where the Rainbooms acknowledge their specific concerns, this would be a song Fluttershy wrote.
• The Sirens initially transform – spouting ears, tails and wings – but then, instead of simply finishing the process, their siren forms burst out of their gems, leaving the human bodies just bobbing up and down with glowing eyes. What’s up with that? Are these even their original bodies, transformed, or they’re actually inhabiting other people’s?
• The ghostly form of an alicorn summoned to eventually blast the Sirens has decidedly masculine facial features for some reason.
• “I also play guitar.” I wonder when exactly did Sunset learn to. I expect Flash was involved.
• “But now I can go through the portal whenever I need to.” So is the portal machine always on? Could a random school kid stumble through by accident?

Some analysis

Unlike the first movie, which provides examples of shocking stupid which can be elegantly resolved, this one is much richer in unanswered questions.

• Here, we observe yet another Star Swirl, with a conspicuous luminescent green horn, as if it’s a prosthetic of some sort. While the source that describes him that way is not first hand, there had to have been reasons that this particular form of legend about him emerged – but I’m out of ideas as to why.
• The banishment of the Sirens is not described in terms of a mirror anywhere but FIENDship is Magic #3, and Shadow Play josses it soundly, while Legends of Magic #7 runs with the results. So why does the mirror exist at all? howard035 suggested in the comments to the Equestria Girls post that the mirror might have actually originated on the Pedestrian side, which is certainly an interesting idea, but I’m entirely without clue as to who might have built it, and I certainly don’t think the Sirens did. Don’t tell me it’s the Pedestrian Star Swirl…
• At which point, and for that matter, why, was the mirror moved from the Crystal Empire to the Friendship Castle? It obviously had to happen after the Friendship Castle emerged. If I were Twilight deciding to build an apparatus to reactivate the mirror out of turn, the first thing I would do would be securing the mirror, and only then I would start running about assembling the said apparatus. She did nothing of the sort, so the mirror had to have been moved prior to that moment – but then we have no idea why.
• Sunset keeps the Communication Journal in her school locker, when we do know she has a dwelling. Celestia keeps her copy in her library and sends it to Twilight along with a huge pile of other books. Now, I can understand Celestia ridding herself of that relic deliberately, but keeping it among other books has to have a story behind it. In fact, this entire journal has to have a story behind it, if only because the only other pony with a direct hotline to Celestia that we know of was Twilight, while even Sunburst was called her student at some point.

I shall leave the discussion of various temporal gradient issues the sirens expose to a later date, when I’m collating the many possible origin points of Sunset Shimmer, but those are quite interesting too.

Comments

[Comnislasher]

Would it kill Celestia to give that as the justification for not letting the Mane 5 go the last time?

Which would imply that she knows for certain that M6 exist on the other side.

cutie marks are actually there and aren’t just a visual device.

Hmmm... Maybe they like this japan stamp things... Hanko, I think?

[Oliver]

4732403

Which would imply that she knows for certain that M6 exist on the other side.

We actually have no idea what does she know at all, why Pedestria was never explored to any degree, and for that matter, why did Sunset choose to run away there, rather than anywhere else. There is The Fall of Sunset Shimmer comic, which only answers a very few of these questions while making others a lot more pressing, and is heavily jossed by later TV canon.

It’s mostly blank. Celestia actually knowing that the other world is populated by duplicates and citing that as the reason to minimize involvement in it would not change much.

[Mitch H]

I cannot for the life of me remember why Photo Finish was involved in this at all. To the point that I have this Berenstain Bears false memory of only Snips and Snails messing with the Rainbooms on that walkway.

Oh, also, the Diamond Dogs are a throwaway reference to one of the Rainbow Rocks set-up shorts where Rarity bullies them into being her piano roadies.

[Oliver]

4732412

I cannot for the life of me remember why Photo Finish was involved in this at all. To the point that I have this Berenstain Bears false memory of only Snips and Snails messing with the Rainbooms on that walkway.

Photo Finish does not appear on the initial list of the bands for the Showcase, but the Sirens lunchtime song rouses her to participate. They later turn up wielding cymbals. In the shot containing the entire tournament tree, I think they are represented by the mark in the very top right – at least, that’s the Photo Finish’s cutie mark from the toy. The one that doesn’t look like Photo Finish at all.

Oh, also, the Diamond Dogs are a throwaway reference to one of the Rainbow Rocks set-up shorts where Rarity bullies them into being her piano roadies.

I remember. Point is, I’m pretty sure they aren’t part of any band…

[hawthornbunny]

Notice that they’re practicing in Applejack’s barn, but the drum kit is here, so Pinkie is hauling it all over.

Pinkie stashed drums all over Pedestria! In case of drum emergencies.

[Comnislasher]

At which point, and for that matter, why, was the mirror moved from the Crystal Empire to the Friendship Castle?

Because ou of four princesses at this point of time Sunset have best relations with Twilight so Celestia moves mirror to her?

Random thought... What would happen if journal never ended up in Twilight castle and still lie somewhere between Celestia things? Yes, I know that writers never do this but... It's would be cool if Celestia herself chose to help Sunset :).

[hawthornbunny]

Are these even their original bodies, transformed, or they’re actually inhabiting other people’s?

...I never even considered this! Although, given the matching skin colors and the chest-gems/necklaces I think it's reasonable to suppose that they are transformed.

[Oliver]

4732428

Because ou of four princesses at this point of time Sunset have best relations with Twilight so Celestia moves mirror to her?

Yes, but what would be the point of doing it at all, if, at the moment, everyone believes that there’s no way the mirror will open until at least two years later?

Random thought… What would happen if journal never ended up in Twilight castle and still lie somewhere between Celestia things? Yes, I know that writers never do this but… It’s would be cool if Celestia herself chose to help Sunset :).

That would be a lovely story, and I’m not sure anyone tried to write that yet.

[Comnislasher]

4732431

Yes, but what would be the point of doing it at all, if, at the moment, everyone believes that there’s no way the mirror will open until at least two years later?

Twilight tried to investigate how it's work?

[Meta Four]

4732431

Yes, but what would be the point of doing it at all, if, at the moment, everyone believes that there’s no way the mirror will open until at least two years later?

Because if they do it now, while the topic is fresh in their minds, there’s less chance they’ll just completely forget during those two years?

[howard035]

There is no reference whatsoever to the time they spent being stuck, by the way. They certainly don’t behave like they have spent a thousand years here, if you ask me.

No, they really don't. I've always assumed their origin was accurate in one way: they got thrown forward in time like Samurai Jack to Pedestria's 1980s, so Starswirl could have a little extra insurance in dealing with them. They're really not that subtle, especially with Sonata around, sooner or later a deaf human would have stabbed them over 1,000 years. (I also like the idea of them not being around for 1,000 years for doylist reasons, since if they have lived that long then it was certainly from the magic they gathered with their gems, and that means the Rainbooms effectively executed them by smashing their gems).

Notice that they refer to “Equestrian” magic throughout the movie.

In the world of Equestria, it's pretty much only unicorns who can actually enchant objects and cast complex spells with visible magical phenomenon, at least that the sirens know of. Probably a hint that their gems were not made in Aquastria.

• The purpose is raising funds. Notice that Legends of Everfree refers to the camp trip being paid for with funds raised by after-school activities, and I wonder if this is it, or there were other interesting things that happened.

They needed funds to rebuild the front of the school for after it was blown up.

Notice also that throughout the movie, nobody reminds Sunset of her earlier transgressions. If anything at all, it’s always the Fall Formal.

Compared to Sunset basically turning into Joseph Pony with her army of brainwashed child soldiers, I doubt anyone really remembers the regular bullying.

Pinkie’s drum kit is customized: It has a horseshoe with a rainbow trail.

Given the price differences in gems, owning a quarry is probably much more profitable in Pedestria.

As a side note, Twilight also attributes it to the lingering magic of the Element – but why did it fizzle the moment the portal closed, then?

As far as we know, there were no active magical effects pulling magic from Equestria to Pedestria, not counting the portal itself. But once Sunset activates her magically connecting book and Twilight hacks the portal to be much easier to open, that probably contributes to the ongoing magic leakage.

This statement is not in agreement with Sunset’s face, however, which is what prompts Rarity’s apology. And remember that it was Flash who dumped Sunset, not vice versa, at least according to Fluttershy. I think she’s deluding herself in an effort to get over him. Unfortunately, that makes her feel even worse.

I've noticed this, and I agree. I also think she's doing this because she feels like giving up Flash to Twilight is something she owes.

so they must have come in with paperwork

The balance of evidence suggests Celestia and Luna do not require copious paperwork for a child to enroll there.

At what point exactly does magic come into the equation?

It's a feedback loop. The sirens expend magic in their voices to trigger negative feelings, then draw the excess negative emotional energy back into their gems, which creates more magic.

Now, the working theory they come up with is that this is because they pony up when playing music, but Sunset does not get this particular excuse.

But that actually makes no sense. We know from every version of their origin that they effect ponies with their magic in Equestria, otherwise they'd just be those weird floating fish ladies everyone ignores and never would have gotten banished. So why are Equestrians immune only in Pedestria? Did Starswirl stack a selective debuff on their magic so it can no longer effect ponies?

“When I was Princess Celestia’s student back in Equestria, she gave me this.

I just realized: The only reason Celestia never gave one to Twilight is so that Spike could feel important.

Why was the other journal kept in a library?

Personal study/library probably.

This by itself sticks the movie into a very narrow stretch of time between Twilight’s Kingdom and The Cutie Map with no chance of deviation, unless you posit that the map mysteriously sinks into the floor when not needed – something we have never seen on screen

This movie and the five or so episodes we've seen in the 5th through 7th season would also need to fit in this gap without a way to hide the table. I mean, the first scene in the Cutie Map started when all the girls sat down on their thrones for the first time, which feels like a couple of days after Twilight's Kingdom? And Twilight already has all that lab equipment moved into the castle?

That said, her band is called “Trixie and the Illusions,” so maybe they are…

I doubt it, unless illusions can pull heavy stage levers.

If you were really all that, Rainbow Dash, you wouldn’t have needed to bring in some magical ringer to have half a chance.

Also first piece of evidence that people consider using magic in a competition cheating.

though I’m really wondering what would they do if this had the opposite effect. It has been known to happen to people stuck in elevators after all…

Tag out with some changling replacements?

 Pedestrian Vinyl Scratch has to be doing street raves.

Definitely. And I'm waiting for secondary canon to call that a transformer crossover.

What’s up with that? Are these even their original bodies, transformed, or they’re actually inhabiting other people’s?

Maybe human bodies can only transform into a demon state if you pour into a bunch of magic, and that is less powerful than their true forms.

So is the portal machine always on? Could a random school kid stumble through by accident?

Doesn't it need to have the Equestrian magic journal in place for it to activate? Either way, the connection between the two worlds has gotten stronger...

Don’t tell me it’s the Pedestrian Star Swirl…

According to the recent shorts he's more Pedestria's Galileo than its Merlin.

4732412

I cannot for the life of me remember why Photo Finish was involved in this at all. To the point that I have this Berenstain Bears false memory of only Snips and Snails messing with the Rainbooms on that walkway.

Snips and Snails were busy watching that movie where Sinbad plays a genie.

[Oliver]

4732781

They’re really not that subtle, especially with Sonata around, sooner or later a deaf human would have stabbed them over 1,000 years.

That’s actually a very good argument.

I also like the idea of them not being around for 1,000 years for doylist reasons, since if they have lived that long then it was certainly from the magic they gathered with their gems, and that means the Rainbooms effectively executed them by smashing their gems.

Funny how they mysteriously vanish even though technically they would have remained the students of CHS under whatever civilian identities they used for enrolling. :)

The balance of evidence suggests Celestia and Luna do not require copious paperwork for a child to enroll there.

An actual school typically does not require a copious amount either, but it does require some.

But that actually makes no sense. We know from every version of their origin that they effect ponies with their magic in Equestria, otherwise they’d just be those weird floating fish ladies everyone ignores and never would have gotten banished. So why are Equestrians immune only in Pedestria? Did Starswirl stack a selective debuff on their magic so it can no longer effect ponies?

The only explanation I can think of right now is that “magic” does not make one immune, but “magic of friendship” does, and while Sunset has it, a random Equestrian would not. That said, I wouldn’t really say Sunset has much friendship either, the Humane 5 spend most of the movie excluding her…

This movie and the five or so episodes we’ve seen in the 5th through 7th season would also need to fit in this gap without a way to hide the table.

Which “five or so episodes” do you mean? Because there are no TV episodes which show the throne room without the map table past The Cutie Re-Mark – except All Bottled Up where Trixie teleports the thing away.

I mean, the first scene in the Cutie Map started when all the girls sat down on their thrones for the first time, which feels like a couple of days after Twilight’s Kingdom?

It “feels like” that, but there definitely is a gap, the way they talk about it.

I doubt it, unless illusions can pull heavy stage levers.

Just the trick to absolve yourself from the responsibility for doing it!

Tag out with some changling replacements?

Locking people together is a very common method of getting them to resolve their differences in fiction, and it does occasionally work in practice.

Doesn’t it need to have the Equestrian magic journal in place for it to activate?

Nobody seems to take it off that machine either, do they? And once it does appear off the machine, nobody seems to put it back when they need to walk through the portal.

[howard035]

4732801

Funny how they mysteriously vanish even though technically they would have remained the students of CHS under whatever civilian identities they used for enrolling. :)

If they don't want to be found, it would be hard for the Rainbooms to find them, and honestly are Luna and Celestia gonna sick the truancy police on them? That would end up causing them and Sunset a whole lot of problems if real authorities start investigating what goes on around that school.

That said, I wouldn’t really say Sunset has much friendship either, the Humane 5 spend most of the movie excluding her…

I think you're right, but we need to be a bit more literal: Not magic of friendship as in metaphorical bonds of friendship, but literal friendship magic radiation lingering from the Element of Magic, which would coat Sunset as much as the Rainbooms and Twilight. I dunno about Spike though.

Which “five or so episodes” do you mean? Because there are no TV episodes which show the throne room without the map table past The Cutie Re-Mark – except All Bottled Up where Trixie teleports the thing away.

Shoot, I was just estimating from the number of times I recall you mentioning the map disappearing in the first place, that's why I thought up the retractable map theory in the first place. At the very least, putting the story between S4 Finale and the Cutie Re Mark gives it more breathing room for Twilight to get her lab equipment, the mirror and all those books moved into her castle and set up. I feel like it would have to be after Castle Sweet Castle because that's when her friends felt free to redecorate her whole house. Probably during S5 because of a conspicuous lack of GlimGlam in the castle.

Fundamentally, either the map is retractable or hideable or some other watsonian explanation for its non-appearance at times, or its not, and we just have to chalk the missing map up to cartoon resolution, right? If the map is retractable, then we can say it was retracted during this movie. If we say the map is not retractable but from a doylist perspective we chalk its absence down to lazy writers and a cartoon resolution, then the map could have been there but not drawn in the movie. Either way the map's appearance or non-appearance doesn't work as a chronology marker, unless I'm missing something.

Locking people together is a very common method of getting them to resolve their differences in fiction, and it does occasionally work in practice.

Now I wish that in the Season 6 Finale all the cocooned victims had been able to communicate with each other and mentioned how this had strengthened their bonds.

Nobody seems to take it off that machine either, do they? And once it does appear off the machine, nobody seems to put it back when they need to walk through the portal.

This is very annoying but true. I can't think of a good watsonian explanation for it.

[Oliver]

4733057

At the very least, putting the story between S4 Finale and the Cutie Re Mark gives it more breathing room for Twilight to get her lab equipment, the mirror and all those books moved into her castle and set up.

Actually, no, sorry, I meant to say The Cutie Map. That is, the Map appears in The Cutie Map in TV canon and never actually goes away up until All Bottled Up. Certain comics, however, turn up with the Map mysteriously missing, but in the TV canon it is always there. There are a few episodes that don’t show the roots of the library tree in the throne room that appear during Castle Sweet Castle, or at least never put the camera up high enough for us to tell if they’re there or not – but even those always have the map table itself.

Fundamentally, either the map is retractable or hideable or some other watsonian explanation for its non-appearance at times, or its not, and we just have to chalk the missing map up to cartoon resolution, right?

Or we just chuck the comics in which the map table does not appear. :) Now, I think there’s a miscommunication here.

The map is, in fact, retractable, it only shows up when there’s a call for a mission. It is projected from the map table. Which is definitely not retractable, and up until All Bottled Up, we had every reason to believe it can’t even move from where it is. The issue is that some comics – and only the comics – have a shot of the throne room in which the entire table is missing.

From The Shadows is particularly strange, because the map table is missing, but Starlight is mentioned.

[howard035]

4733074 Ahhhhh. Ok, gotcha. I'm still not convinced the table isn't in some way removable, because Starlight and Trixie are able to move it through time and space as one object, and if magic can pull a table up out of the ground I don't see why it can't reverse the process, but if there are no show-canon instances where the table is not visible (obviously not counting All Bottled Up) then yeah, it makes sense to treat that as a hard chronology lock.

It's too bad Castle Sweet Castle can't be moved ahead of Cutie Map, that would make a lot more sense from a character development point of view than the other way around, if Twilight was moping about her house and it took her friends months to care enough to try and redecorate.

[Production Run]

She didn’t have the opportunity to compare herself to the Pedestrian Twilight yet.

However, Pinkie did mention having encountered Pedestrian Twilight and Spike at some point back in the first movie.

[Cursed Quill]

Technology!mechanics∃there existsSceneryAbility♪I heard… Magic.
Chiropteral notes (lit. hand-wing) or other anthropomorphism…and trouble with hands.Animation oddments,visual interest Interaction with 'later'.Chronology note. ❧uncategorized.

❧Four-card poker…and a four-joker deck, which is unusual
❧❧also unusual in having jokers (implied to) beat aces.
Princess Sparkle uses mouthwriting; odd given that she got magic well so young, but I suppose it's something she'd done more than handwriting.
Pinkie Pie can play a theremin.
Pinkie Pie is skilled at deduction.
Photo Finish has the muscle strength to lift Rarity entirely, and Rarity's iron-dangling sleeves have the integrity to support her for a fair while.
Applejack can beat RD at video games.

• The Pedestrian Bon-Bon and Lyra are together a lot more often than the Equestrian ones, just for the record.
• Bulk Biceps is all about violins. No sax anywhere, though.

but Sunset does not get this particular excuse. That said, she doesn’t get to play music until the very end either…

Sunset is the only other user of Equestrian magic there, though, so.

“Those three are definitely in possession of some kind of dark magic.” The term “dark magic” gets applied so strangely, that it’s quite difficult to work out a useful definition.

Really? I thought it was fairly uniformly applied to negative-emotion-fueled magic.

“And I get the feeling they don’t exactly have cell phones where she’s from.” Based on what exactly?

Given how she had trouble typing…

“It used to be that if I wrote something here, it would appear in the pages of a book back in Princess Celestia’s library.” …Wait. Why was the other journal kept in a library?

If I own a book, it may be said to be in my library. Doesn't work so well here, though, yes.

“A certain Star Swirl?” Is there an uncertain one elsewhere?

She's being coy about her Secretly Favorite Pony.

Which is kind of nonsense which resembles the Pythagoras theorem but isn’t.

Equestria has Cartesian coordinates and Pythagorean theorem.
It's the three-dimensional version of the Pythagorean Theorem, which is just the 2D one applied twice. The projection of a 3D vector onto the X-Y plane's length will be (X²+Y²)^.5; to which you may add the Z component for another vector, and to get that length, you take (( (X²+Y²)^.5)² +Z²)^.5, which simplifies to (X²+Y²+Z²)^.5 , which is what she said:

...And the interval between the two points is defined as the square root of the sum of the squares of the separation between the points along three spatial dimensions.

wiktionary, at least, says that "interval" means distance and "separation" can mean "interval". The "defined" bit doesn't fit, I guess.
Pinkie Pie's fridge absolutely-full of aerosol whipped cream containers requires either living alone or her parents being as sugar-crazed as she is, which would be very unlike her Equestrian counterpart. (Or she lives with the Cakes here, too.)
Trapdoor that kills the whole stage? Very strange.

The device only has a few recognizable features, and all of them are electrical

You missed one:
Weird: electric? power cable goes into building Pedestria Portal mk 2.

“You don’t have time for any of this! You’re supposed to check in at the Battle of the Bands in fifteen minutes!” Which definitely isn’t enough time to pack the drum kit. Just saying.

Pinkie's got hammerspace in her mane.

“If you were really all that, Rainbow Dash, you wouldn’t have needed to bring in some magical ringer to have half a chance. Everyone’s talking about it.” Twilight’s origins are not a secret to anyone in school, it appears.

Origins can still be secret; her beating Sunset is adequate for calling her 'magical'.

“The band that will be joining the Dazzlings in tonight’s finals… The Rainbooms!” Which is the outcome the Sirens have very obviously manipulated, but then they immediately manipulate Trixie into trapping them. The idea is to get the Rainbooms to argue between themselves and reap negative energy from more magically charged victims than usual, apparently, though I’m really wondering what would they do if this had the opposite effect. It has been known to happen to people stuck in elevators after all…

Oh my.
❧The Sirens' wording to "stop the Rainbooms from getting [to the Battle]" directly interferes with their goal of getting the Rainbooms' Equestrian magic; had Trixie taken some other implementation of shuffling off the Rainbooms, the Sirens would not have had access to it for the concert. Supports the Sirens being kinda stupid and relying on their powers.

“But now I can go through the portal whenever I need to.” So is the portal machine always on? Could a random school kid stumble through by accident?

Given how we never see Sunset call ahead and say "open the portal", it certainly seems so.
❧And Twilight just leaves the portal open 24/7. Where it's publicly accessible. This is amazingly short-sighted.

we have no idea why.

After EqG, Princess Twi's the most-connected to it; she's a notable magical scholar; she's a strong defender of Equestria; she has befriended many a threat and beaten down a few more.

---

Comment responses!
4732781

According to the recent shorts he's more Pedestria's Galileo than its Merlin.

Split the difference and make him Newton?
4732801

I wouldn’t really say Sunset has much friendship either

She got blasted with it, she's contaminated infused. (Oh, 4733057 already said so.)

[Cursed Quill]

also
Pinkie's Drum Confetti Cannon.

[Oliver]

4824266

Sunset is the only other user of Equestrian magic there, though, so.

What about that other girl… I forget…

Wallflower Blush, right.

Really? I thought it was fairly uniformly applied to negative-emotion-fueled magic.

Not really.

It’s the three-dimensional version of the Pythagorean Theorem, which is just the 2D one applied twice.

Ah. Nice catch.

Pinkie Pie’s fridge absolutely-full of aerosol whipped cream containers requires either living alone or her parents being as sugar-crazed as she is, which would be very unlike her Equestrian counterpart. (Or she lives with the Cakes here, too.)

Or, there’s another fridge in the same kitchen, and this one is Pinkie’s. Not entirely uncommon.

Pinkie’s got hammerspace in her mane.

You mean drummerspace.

This is amazingly short-sighted.

Well, she doesn’t normally lock the front door of the castle either, it appears.

[Cursed Quill]

4824344

What about that other girl… I forget…

Wallflower Blush, right.

Okay, Sunset's the only other user/infectee of Equestrian Friendship Magic. I suppose I should have consolidated that with following the "radiation" claim.
4824344

Not really.

Example non-negative-emotion "dark magic" claim?

[Oliver]

4824571

Example non-negative-emotion “dark magic” claim?

1. Inspiration Manifestation is referred to as dark magic when reversing it, but Rarity’s behavior itself is not associated with negative emotions.
2. Particularly, when the Humane 6 accuse the Sirens of using dark magic to make the principals like them, no negative emotion is involved.

Canon only uses the term “dark magic” in a few episodes, and only Sombra’s “dark magic” is explicitly connected to fear, hatred, etc.

[Cursed Quill]

Inspiration Manifestation…well, loosely negative emotion (pride/jealousy) but, ok, not clearly fueled by it, no.
4824586
The Sirens' voices that they used to persuade Principals C+L, even if they're not thereby directly causing negative emotions, are nonetheless literally fueled by negative emotions energy. (It is very clearly negative emotion, just not quite so-named here.)

The sirens were three beautiful but dangerous creatures who had the power to charm ponies with their music. But to maintain this power, they had to feed on the negativity and distrust of others. The more of this negative energy they consumed, the stronger their voices became, and the farther they could spread their dark magic.

And the transcript doesn't have them accusing them of "dark magic" for that particular event: what they say to the Principals seems to be about the cafeteria, because they are not informed of the principals-persuasion until after they say it.
"dark magic" said in RR:
1. Shimmer, Immediately after cafeteria song "Battle of the Bands", which is obviously creating negative emotion (and, if she can later see the green-gas-sucking, she may have been able to here)
2. Celestia, echoing accusation, but before the principals say anything about having been visited by Dazzlings
3. is RD, later, who is speaking about Sunset-demon, and not an expert
4. Twilight, reciting Siren information.