Nightmears and why entering the Dream Realm is the worst idea you'll ever have. · 10:28pm May 3rd, 2017
Because a lot of people are confused about why Lyra and Bonbon's relationship can't be restored by a spell, and as Catalyst is not about that incident I am going to give a full explanation here. Why bring it up if it's not what the story is about? Their breakup is mentioned here because I write a shared universe with a single timeline and this is what Lyra is going through right now, and I wanted her to be one of the ponies who physically go to get Twilight, and well, she'd be haunted by the recent events in her life.
Now, as for why they can't be undone... I think I'll do this in the manner of one of my favorite YouTubers as the full explanation is a bit long and I don't want to bore everyone.
Dear Readers,
Hi! It's me! Meep!
I was recently reading comments and noticed that a lot of people don't understand why Bonbon can't simply be fixed. Some people have problems with the idea that Bonbon remembers all of her and Lyra's relationship, yet doesn't want to go back to it after having been altered by the Nightmare. Admittedly if looked at from just the surface that makes NO. GODDAMN. SENSE.
But... There is a very good explanation. In order to fully understand why we'll have to learn why Princess Celestia had all books on Dream Magic burned and banned the school of magic entirely. As have almost every other nation on the face of Equis. You see, Dream Creatures are goddamn, terrifying!
Loosely attached to reality is a place known as the Realm of Dreams. This other plane of existence is artificial, created a long time ago by wizards to deal with a very specific problem. Creatures capable of casting spells can do so in their sleep. Now, that's pretty rare. It won't happen with every dream, or even every time someone sleeps, but when it does, there can be one of two outcomes.
First, they simply cast a spell while asleep and whatever that spell is meant to do happens. This is the least bad option even though it includes outcomes like 'you blow your entire house up by sleepcasting a fireball'. Second and worst, they can form a full spell matrix, and then NOT cast the spell, and start to have a rather emotionally intense dream.
You see, when that happens the spell matrix is there, ready to go, trying to do its job and then suddenly BOOM! The whole mind is engulfed in the throws of an intense dream, warping the matrix until it detaches from the mind which created it, having absorbed the dream they were having becoming an entity unto its own with the capability to use magic as nothing else can and the desire to do one and only one highly specific thing.
Make the dream which spawned it happen.
Back in the day, this was bad but not the most horrible pants crapping terror-inducing thing ever. But it was still a fairly bad problem, so powerful wizards met, formed a plan, and created a parallel plane of reality which would vacuum up all of these stray dream creatures and soak up the magic used by sleeping wizards so that there would be no more fireballs in the middle of the night and no more living spells trying to make dreams come true.
Sounds great right? WRONG!
By containing all of these entities in one place where they couldn't get at their hosts, these absolutely sapient creatures can't despawn. They also are stuck in a realm which has an ever increasing amount of raw magical energy shoved into it, giving them access to unlimited power. And what those wizards didn't know is the portal to the Dream Realm isn't quite completely one way. Creatures, there can reach back and interact with sleeping minds, forcing people to dream of them again and again... And that gives the Dream Creature more and more power, which it soaks up like an infinity large sponge as it attempts to become powerful enough to break free and do the only thing it wants to do.
Become real.
Fortunately, they can't actually get out. Which is a relief since these creatures can become so powerful that it's possible for them to alter laws of physics. A Dream Creature that's been dreamed of enough is basically a god, able to cause reality itself to exist however it wants for as long as its own power lasts for (usualy enough to last a pony's lifetime, sometimes much, much more.). Unfortunately... While they can't get out, wizards who don't know better can take them out to boost their own magical power. And even more foolish wizards can go inside the Dream Realm itself.
Which is where Luna stuck an entire city of Ponies for five entire days. A whole Equestrian week.
On paper, that would be fine. Luna's very experienced in holding back Dream Creatures. In practice... Well she made a few errors in the number of creatures she can shield at once when in direct exposure to the Dream Realm. (But to be fair she made the decision in the heat of battle to try and prevent everyone from being butchered, and saved most of them so hey, it worked.) One of the ponies she couldn't shield was Lyra. Another, Bonbon.
Why? Because they were combing the city for survivors, far beyond Luna's protective bubble, just like the people they were sent to rescue.
Unfortunately for Lyra, she encountered a Dream Creature she spawned. One which she would conciter her worst nightmare. The nightmare smelled its host within its reach and did exactly what any Dream Creature would do. The only thing they care to do. It made Lyra's worst fear come true to the exact letter.
Why can't Bonbon be turned back to normal? She totally could be. There's nothing that's physically preventing it from being done... EXCEPT for Lyra's nightmare. Her nightmare which was made into reality by a malevolent entity of god like power which only cared about tormenting Lyra in a very very specific way.
Said nightmare is as follows:
Lyra is in danger, and Bonbon saves her but is hurt. When Bonbon recovers, she's different somehow and this difference causes her to leave Lyra. Bonbon remembers their relationship completely, but doesn't want to return to her, despite still loving her. This illogical horrible evil state continues forever, with nothing Lyra can do able to return Bonbon to her side.
That's what reality now IS. To the letter.
Why can't Luna, Celestia, o r anypony else fix it? Because that's a part of the nightmare which is now reality. Is it illogical? Yes. Should things go any other way under any normal circumstances? Absolutely.
But they won't. At least, not untill the Nightmare's power runs out and its influence over Lyra and the real world ends. At which point, everything it did will stop, and reality will snap back to normal. Unfortunately for Lyra, this is her worst nightmare. A reoccurring one. Which she had A LOT. It could be centuries before it's over. Fortunately, as vampires, she and Bonbon could be around when it's over.
Unfortunately for many Ponyvillians who were also found by their Nightmares... They will likely die before their Nightmares power runs dry.
And that, dear readers, is why you DO NOT FUCK AROUND WITH DREAM MAGIC.
Sincerely,
Meep
With Lyra still alive and living this nightmare isn't she therefore feeding it creating a problem with literally no solution?
4518950 No. A Nightmare consumes itself to become reality. It's a living spell, and as such, it casts itself when it can. The only solution here is to wait for that spell to wear off which will allow Reality to function without the warp it caused.
Had Luna been nearby when it tried to manifest itself, she could have stopped it. But since she was not, and since Lyra has no idea how to do that sort of thing, there's nothing anyone can do now but wait for the power that particular nightmare had amassed to run out.
Is that horrible? Yes. That's the point. This is cosmic horror.
4518953 Ah that makes more sense. The way dream creatures have been described thus far painted them as fully sapient beings when they are actually closer to machines or golems. They can be capable of independent thought and self improvement, but in a limited, focused sense to further one goal. And the way they cast the magic isn't bound by the clear physics you have put around magic in universe?
4518961 That's absolutely correct. With the additional fact that what they are is essentially a living sapient spell. These are meant to be the Lovecraftian creatures of my AU. The terrifying incomprehensible largely malevolent entities living not quite outside of, but also not quite within reality itself.
They way they cast magic is much more akin to something like Discord or Faust. But they can only do it once, as doing it is suicide for them. But that's perfectly alright in their eyes. They did the thing they were meant to do.
4518967 welp, that's all my questions. Also,
"I'm Mr Meseeks look at me!" -your dream creatures
Another thing for folks to consider....during the last chapter, Lyra was sulking a bit because Derpy had seen more adventure than she had. Lyra and Bonbon are both adventurers at heart, but they have been with each other and in a mundane existence for most of those seven decades. They are both dreadfully bored, but would never even fully consider it because they feel it would hurt the other.
Bonbon didn't forget, but I imagine it is likely that Luna has described Nightmares to her knights before. She doesn't want to fix it right now because of the Nightmare's influence, and she likely remembers that it can't be fixed yet anyway.
They will get back together eventually, they are soulmates. But in the meantime, this is an opportunity to try things they never would have before, for fear of disrupting their lives or upsetting their mate.
Hmn. So even actual gods like Faust can't do anything about it? This may be the new reality for Bon Bon and Lyra, but Faust and her lot can alter reality (and she has a standing offer to every Equestrian to perform one favor). It seems odd that even they wouldn't be able to do anything, either about the new reality or about the pot of magic continually powering the spell.
4518970 I was just thinking that.
"I'm Mr. Nightmare, look at me!"
"Make my worst fear a reality."
"Oooo yeah, ca~an do."
4518967
But (theoretically) if they use.....let's say Lyra biggest (now) dream, about being together with Bonbon again as countermeasure to nightmare (Destroy or weaken it's influence),aka,Fire with Fire.Would that work here? At first glance, it sounds (for me) reasonable.
4519028 What's most practical is asking the Master of Dream Magic currently living with her grandpa at AJ's to fix it...
4519040
....well, no matter how, as long it will work (I like happy endings
)
.....maybe
4518980 They could, yes. If they cared to. But since this doesn't' really fuck up anything 'important' cosmically speaking, they probably won't unless asked to. And the mortals won't ask, except many Lyra, who if she asks, well... They won't. Because that's how the curse goes.
4519028 Yeah, that would work. Once that dream gained enough power, at least. She has to go into the realm again though (YOu can't summon specific entities from it.). And one of her other nightmares could find her... That said trying that would be the Lyra thing to do.
4519040 4519047 The only problem there is using her power makes her violently ill. She's still recovering. But she would happily fix it... Lyra DID think about asking her to do it but when AJ explained to her that she almost killed herself helping to stop Dawn simply through increacing her natural capabilities and then replenishing Azur's mana supply, Lyra decided not to ask her. Because Megan would. Since she values others over herself.
Give her a year or so to fully recover from her captivity and regain her health and then yeah, no problem. Assuming someone asks her to do it who isn't Lyra. Since part of the nightmare is that nothing Lyra can do can fix it, and despite her power, Megan is a part of the physical world sooo...
4519062 Yeah, see if that is true, I have a hard time seeing how any of the dream effects stand up long-term. As just one immediate example, given how much this change is going to throw a wrench into the relationships of the group of friends that is Luna's knights, it's really hard to believe that they wouldn't look into why Bon Bon and Lyra get divorced and once they find out it's a dream problem surely they would tell Luna. Once Luna knows that's a direct conduit to Faust, and additionally she'd almost certainly be on the lookout for other Ponyvillians who are experiencing nightmare problems.
Maybe this would stick if this was just a random town somewhere in the world out of Celestia's and Luna's direct observation, but this is Ponyville. There's just too many ways that they'd find out and once they know the problems are solvable.
4519087 True, but again, part of the nightmare is that it couldn't be solved, and since Lyra already went to Luna for help, Luna can't help. If Lyra hadn't gone to Luna and Luna found out indirectly, yeah! Sure, no problem. But now Luna's been brought into the problem... So for at least the short term, it won't be solved. It's really only a matter of time before it is undone.
That's part of the entire deal with this particular kind of magic. It can do literally anything. But it's almost never able to do it for long. This is a now problem. It likly wont be a problem 500 years from now.
4519135 Interesting. I can see why the books were burnt... but can also imagine the uses for it. A way to create a immensely powerful effect capable of shaping reality itself so it can happen, if only you can precisely craft the matrix you want, and impair into it precise wishes and periodically fill it with magic.
Basically, suicide for anyone that isn't a goddam alicorn, because you'll need decades to make sure such construct won't bite you in the buttocks.
Or, you know, just craft a dream and force yourself to repeat it every night. It could work. Maybe.
And yeah, that Eldritch Horror approach to nightmares makes everything make sense and be even more terrifying, for it doesn't matter if Bonnie wants it or not, she simply can't even try to change of her own volition. Because such is the nightmare.
Incidentally, this explanation does differ somewhat from what was said in the story comments. Just poor wording from before, or our lack of understanding of the nightmare's nature?
4519262 Poor wording on my part. I had like 4 hours of sleep and tooka long while to wake up. I tend to answer comments early on. Take this as the definitive version. This is right from my notes, spruced up to be more presentable.
So we just have to wait till the nightmare is over, unless bonbon turns whoever she is currently seeing, by the way who is she seeing, and how many pitchforks and torches should i need
That was awesome to read. Even if it was a little spoilery, considering I haven't read Catalyst. But hey! It was "THE SCIENCE!" style! So I don't really care!
4519378 She isnt' seeing anyone at the moment. But mabey in a year or so she might decide to take advantage of her current feelings to see what a male/female relationship is like. As a silver lining, they have a short break to try new things. Well, short from the prespective of somone with their lifespans. Still, they will deffently get back togeather again in the future.
4519417 Yeah, but the comments section was getting antsy so I owed a full explanation. Sorry for the spoiler.
4519275 I dont do meta whys. That's lazy and leads to bad writing. When there's major consequences for events, I draft a list of possibilities and let the dice decide. This is where they fell.
I prefer that method as it makes for a richer more living and breathing universe in my opinion. My world dosn't go the way I want. It goes where circumstance, chance, and characters actions take it. It's not driven by the narrative mandate.
4519444 Enh, s'ok. I just added them all back into my list and started on Lyra-7%. 9 chapters in, and loving it.
4519456 That's a good place to start :D Cuz the next story will follow up on 7% a bit. Kinda. Pone Lyra will spend some time with her sister.
4519460 Sweet! Welp, 3 in the morning, shoulda been in bed a few hours ago. Good story. You know how it is.
>> Meep the Changeling Fine i wont kill you yet, but im watching you,