Season 6 Ep25-26: Thoughts, Spoilers, Etc. · 10:20pm Oct 22nd, 2016
So... That happened. A lot of the world building with the changelings I liked. Still processing how I feel about the reformed changeling appearance (Those antler/pincer horns could be badass). And that hive! Gah, so many ideas...
And Chrysalis continues to be the only villain to completely beat the heroes - twice! - all but win, only to be thwarted by the dreaded deus ex machina at the last minute. At least this one you see coming. And damn does she have one creepy AF moment.
Of course (and I knew this would happen), now that we have more pieces of the changeling puzzle, I think some minor revisions to the upcoming chapter are in order. Actually I think that's a good thing, because I've learned so far that grounding myself in the show's continuity overall has a better effect on my writing than just going completely off the rails.
So, i felt like my next chapter was all but ready. Now, though... gonna have to do some thinking. Since I'm already kind of diverged from the show's changeling continuity, I have the onerous task of figuring out how much of the actual show I want to incorporate and how much just would be contradictory or at least awkward. Oh well... we'll see. Until then, I leave you with the major musical mood-setting piece for the upcoming chapter, Chapter 24: The Phantom Queen:
I think the Mane six and Princess's should get in trouble with the nobles and normal ponies for getting kidnapped too easily.
I also have had to revise a bit of my changeling based story, Change, in order to accommodate the finale. It was mainly just a reference in the fic's epilogue, but it has changed up the ending I have planned for the sequel completely.
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I find myself in the opposite situation, as far as potential sequel material. The blatant reformation (and Chrysalis' refusal to go along with it) opens up doors I didn't have before, thus making a potential adventure into the south far less dubious.
It's the here and now that's got my head in a twist
4266872 Sounds cool, though I never said it restricted me in anyway. I wanted to make these changes as it allowed me to add and expand upon what I have planned to make the event have further reaching consequences for the whole changeling race.
4266872 Did you see Shin Godzilla?
Clearly the "new" hive from the finale is a living creature and sadly any abandoned hive would not live long without changelings tending it. I certainly am looking forward to the new chapter with any bits of lore that fit your setting.
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HELL YEAH I DID! And believe me, it gave me ideas for A King Unmatched... evil, evil ideas...
4266978 The debut of his new atomic breath was beautiful, it brought a tear to my eye in the theater.
I like some of the elements the changelings have in the show, but overall I think your version of changelings as a whole is my favorite. Curious to how you will combine some of the elements in the end. I've found myself in a similar situation with my fic regarding dragons. Needed a character to take control of them, but didn't expect the show to hand me a magical scepter that does just that. Still not sure if I'll use it, or have the character strong arm the dragons by force into servitude.
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I'd had his breath spoiled for me, but it still didn't do it justice compared to seeing it in theaters. It made Legendary Godzilla's atomic breath look like a butane torch in comparison. I admit, I was getting seriously strong Evangelion vibes watching it lay waste to the city, but maybe that's just cuz I knew who co-directed the film.
The only thing I didn't like about the movie were some of the audio effects. Godzilla's roar literally sounded like his roar ripped directly from the 1954 film and slapped into a 2016 movie. The sound quality was so jarringly out of place, like they barely even touched it up at all.
...And that's about all the problems I had with the movie. AND I got a free pass to another movie because there were technical difficulties (part of the subtitles were cut off at the bottom of the screen, though not nearly enough to make them unreadable), so win-win!
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The episode did give me some tools to play with, too. Like Chrysalis' throne. What if every hive had one? Suddenly, having a couple gods and gifted unicorns doesn't seem like much of an advantage in the face of artifacts capable of completely nullifying all magic besides changeling, including Chaos magic for crying out loud!
It also helps me fill an old plot hole quite nicely, and purely by coincidence. So win-win!
I'm still not 100% sure how i feel about the new reformed changeling/Flutter Pony-esque look. The elements are amazingly creative and unique, and embody pretty much everything I see changelings to be - part bug, but also part pony. And the pincer horns! I don't know how many people noticed, but when everyone was standing united against Chrysalis, Thorax's pincer-horns were glowing magically, which just brings so many implications to mind.
Maybe I just need to adjust, but that uniqueness also feels a little... much. Excessive. I think I'll get used to it, but for now, the new appearance is... unusual.
I had to hold back from messaging you about this after the episodes aired early in the UK. I'm really interested to see where you take this new canon info about changelings and apply it to your own original work. I'm sure whatever you think of, it will be great, but I'm greedy and want a new chapter sooner rather than later!
I guess you do need to consider now, does Applejack get an... odd looking changeling make over, or does she keep her black, cheese-leg form? Because I'm pretty sure her mom accomplished what Applejack's friends are trying to do for her, but are going to go back and say her form changed?
Either way I can't wait to read what you write!
'all but win'......
chrysalis is a good villain but i would far from call what she has done 'winning to begin with. in the first one, she would have been doomed to face sombra, a force she oculd not defeat, and likely would be unable to contain celestai for long, and luna was still on the loose.
and this situation, she of course had the most powerful beings on equestria's side captive, but her plot was gonna fall apart very, very soon. already had sunburst on to them, it would not take long for the families of the mane six to figure out something is amiss. and the changelings replacing shining armor, cadance, luna, and celestia would have NO fucking clue what they were doing.
i would have given her plan a vgenerous week, but absolutely nothing more.
but she sitll had the strongest beings in equestria captive. but that would not have been enough by far.
as for dues ex machina, the first can be said, but here we already knew there was something strange about thorax. was not as vulnerable to the chagnelingisms, and his wings had changed. also he was smarter and larger than a normal drone. my guess is that he was a 'king' changeling. but one that is more resistant to what has become of the changelings.
crhsyalis weakness is an itnersting one. she is capable of making guileful and risky plans and making them work....... but she is utterly incapable of foresight, and worse, thinks her plans will work for hte long term.
4266846 be fair, the means chrysalis had are now gone forever. without the throne, she llost her power to capture or contain anypony.
which was to my massive relief that they gave an actual reason to how and why. course ultimately her plan was doomed to failure. outside fo the fact she would end up beign rivaled by likely far more powerful beigns than herself, with the alicorns captured, nopony was gonna fall for any of this shit for too long. nopony.
sunburst was alrady on to them, and considering that they had no idea thorax was involved in the situation at all, he was ont to them without them being on to him. just needed to rally his fellow ponies and kick their asses.
think the first to go down, probably the very first day, would be in canterlot..........
i am imagining celestia impostor trying to figure out hwo to get through all this paperwork and figure out a dispute, only to either break down or get exposed by dinner XD
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Here is the major flaw with the theory that Sunburst would lead Equestria to victory: ponies, almost without exception, are unquestioningly loyal to their princesses. He'd have an almost impossible time trying to convince his fellows that Princess Celestia and Luna were anything but who they said they were. And then there'd be nothing to prevent him from being captured and replaced should he be too vocal about it.
And for Queen Chrysalis' part, as long as her throne remains intact, she is virtually untouchable. Had she succeeded at the wedding and Sombra returned, she'd only have to sequester herself in her hive in order to become totally impervious to anything he might do to her. Then she'd only have to bide her time and wait for an opening to strike (considering that she took Luna, Celestia, Cadance AND Twilight without a noticeable struggle, it's not impossible to think that she could do the same to Sombra with the right opening).
Of all Chrysalis' talents, she is cunning and highly intelligent, but prone to oversights when her arrogance gets in the way. She has proven to be a match for every single alicorn in Equestria as well as the mane 6, all of which she managed to capture and replace without raising any suspicion apart from a single individual (And it's possible Sunburst only realized what was going on because of Thorax's input). It cannot be overstated that, to date, Queen Chrysalis is simply the must successful villain yet encountered.
4267295 .......... no, not really actually. they trust them but that does not mean they are blinded by it. especially if they see them unable to do, well, ANYTHING they normally can do.
hell all sunburt would have to do is test them. having shining armor cast a shield, his speciality, hide it as a favor. then when shining armor is suddenly unable to do what he normally is capable of doing......... yeah you get the drift.
in canterlot, ponies would immediately begin to notice celesti, how is normally a lot more close to ponies, being inexplicably both distant and utterly incompetent. more than likely ponies will piece together what is going on. and would act or attempt to test her. changeling could never imitate her magic after all.
ponies are a bit more open minded i would think, and celestai is closer to her subjects than any real world politican would ever be.
as for the barrier thing...... dude, against sombra it woud just be a cage for her. her forces owuld get pulverized. especially when sombra, with the motivation of having a 'pony' rule them over a monster, would lead equestria against her. she would need to hide in her little lair to avoid him. and thus would be unable to leave least she gets attacked again.
i love chrysalis as a character, and a villain, but she is immensely flawed. she is good at shock and awe tactics, but has little skill in longerterm planning
4267295 also the reason she got them without a sturggle is simply by teleporting them into their lair, where only their magic works......... the sole, solitary way she managed to do it in fact
4267209
The unspoken reason I have why Carnation didn't change (and might be explained or hinted at later in the story) is that she technically flubbed the 'cure' by giving her heart to her daughter, instead of somepony she loved romantically. So instead we get a sort of half-cure; Carnation's heart reawakened, but ultimately she was still a changeling bound by changeling needs.
The finale kind of threw a wrench in that assertion, though, that it is romantic love that changelings need the most. Apparently Spike's friendship was enough for Thorax to never go hungry, and apparently replacing approximately ten ponies is all Chrysalis' hive would need to feed upon the adoration of Equestria: again, not romantic love. So it's proof that love of any sort is all a changeling needs to get by. Furthermore, it's indicated that drones gathered love in order to give it to Chrysalis, a function they most certainly do not do in the Ironyverse.
It also contradicted one of my earlier points about Changeling transformation limits; that changelings cannot change into anything but ponies due to the process they go through when transformed (as Applejack describes in Irony). Yet there goes a changeling mimicking both Spike and Discord, and drones imitating alicorns (something I'm not sure if I've stated or not is impossible for an Ironyverse drone to do, as the act of channeling internal magic in three different directions is too much for their bodies to handle). Maybe i can retcon that, since as far as I know, only really Applejack has explained the process and limitations, and she's not exactly an expert on all things changeling. We'll see, though; I'd like to keep that limitation imposed as much as possible if I can help it.
But all in all, I think I can make use of a fair bit of what we've been given. Not all of it, but that's just something I'll have to live with at this point.
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Yet, Canterlot's elite completely took Spike's word at face value while Twilight took a nap. When it comes to the princesses, time and again, the ponies of Equestria have all proven to be a highly gullible lot. And with Chrysalis pulling the strings from the shadows, she could at least keep the charade going for a pretty long time.
Also, the fact that Sunburst had sent for help rather than try to solve the problem himself shows that he was at least not in a position to thwart the invasion alone. Even if he did challenge Shining, for example, the changelings could simply stage a false arrest: the impersonator is caught, imprisoned, and 'Shining Armor' is inexplicably rescued. Then Sunburst mysteriously changes his mind and drops his accusations, never to speak up again. Plus, there's no guarantee that Sunburst wasn't replaced shortly after dispatching Thorax, which would potentially render his whole involvement a moot point.
And yes, if Sombra got free and waged war on Chrysalis, he would be able to box her in. Yet, as we saw, the area of effect of Chrysalis' throne was quite large, giving her hives options such as burrowing. As you pointed out, as well, all she'd need to do is get close enough to teleport Sombra into her hive, and then he'd be no challenge at all, either. Heck, if she tricked him into passing into the reach of her throne while he did not know of its power, it'd be a real easy win for Chrysalis. And let's not forget that in this scenario she has access to the love of the Mane 6, Celestia, Shining Armor and Cadance, just one of whom was enough to make her more powerful than Celestia herself. So no, in this scenario I do not believe Sombra would win. At best he'd just keep throwing his army at the problem, but I doubt they'd be able to keep Chrysalis' hive contained.
Let's compare the two a little better. In the altered timeline, upon Sombra's rise, Equestria still existed. it was at war and paying a terrible cost, but ultimately Equestria was still intact.
In Chrysalis' altered timeline, Equestria is no more. Those not captured by her hive live as refugees in the forests, living in constant fear of discovery and capture.
Is Chrysalis the perfect villain? No, I don't think so. She has many flaws, as you say. But the facts are that she has come closer to winning than anyone else the mane 6 have faced.
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Oh nice! I can't wait to see that story updated as well.
4267255 True but the Ponies would start to loose faith in the Princess's and start to question if they still fit to rule them. You know this is the second time Cadance was kidnapped by Chrysalis's drones and second time Celestia got cocooned by Chrysalis. And twice Chrysalis has gotten away only this time she has lost her crown and her drones.
And how many times did the Princess's get defeated or kidnapped by a bad guy?
And the Mane six (especially Twilight) Should have been to spot an impostor.
I say use whatever new canon will benefit your story, and ignore whatever new canon will hurt your story. For example, the throne of magic-dampening crystal has potential, but the rules about what kind of love the Changelings need most might mess up your story thematically or alter it too much. If that makes sense.
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My thoughts exactly. If I were to incorporate the love thing, it might be to make friendship a lower quality source, but that seems a tad cliched as far as changeling fics go. So, odds are I won't touch it. But we'll see.
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I'm glad people are still looking forward to it. It's been real tough holding off on writing it, but I really want to focus on one fic at a time so that I can give as much of my undivided attention to it. But when the last chapter of Advent is published, it probably won't take me long to get A King Unmatched rolling again.
I thought that when AJ was save she body will not have any holes, based mostly in the windglass in the comic "reflection" when they show us the cryssalis from that other world.
But, just write what you want to, and make sense to you. It your story. ;P
4267569 likely they all were captured at once in one quick go, to repvent such a thing from happening.
her plans are bold, but lack longevity..... she is basically a us politician xp
One thing to consider is what's so special about Thorax?
From the day he was hatched he was smarter, more perceptive and more empathic than the other changelings.
In your continuity he's even more so because of Queen Imprinting. Unless I misunderstood something one of the threats a corrupted Applejack represents is that the entire Ponyville hive will stay loyal to her even if she turns evil and rejects the values they currently stand for due to this.
Thorax being able to reject Chrysalis's way at all then goes from unusual to an outright herculean feat.
In the finale then not only did he ascend to Royal Changeling status despite not being born one but he somehow also broke Chrysalis's hold on the rest of the hive giving them the opportunity to make their own choice as well.
Being exposed to the energies of the Crystal Heart and the love of two alicorns for several months was doubtlessly involved.
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Indeed. Thorax's defection, in the context of the Ironyverse, would definitely be an incredible feat. His ascension would also pose an interesting juxtaposition between himself and the old hives, which was kind of what I was aiming for with Applejack. Oh well, I might be able to work around it.
Let me post my rant here
Ugh I just watched finale and I can say 3 things
new design is horrible, changelings looked awesome and now they are flying glitter colorful puke, why they did this I can’t wrap my head around (outside of obvious toy selling shiet) if they just lost holes and even get glitter wings or something it would be great especially with possibility of further episodes with them etc
second trixie was best, every scene with her was funny and interesting, freaking outstanding characterization
third yiss Chrysalis is still evil and don’t look like baby rainbow fart but very ABSURDALY big minus to no echo-voice what she had on start
4268036 Yeah she doesn't think things well enough.
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I think the new changeling appearance has potential to be awesome, but the first impression gave me mixed feelings. The artist Orin331 did a really nice Version of a reformed Chrysalis that I'm partial to, though I would love to see some sort of implementation of a more graceful version of the pincer-horns.
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I would prefer grandma chrysalis from IDW comic if they want to reform her, but seriously they buglike appearance was one of cool thing that they just throw out with that colors, not saying anything about those antlers or neck diamonds (whatever that is ) that just look ridiculous. They lost a lot of potential for future episodes about them with working together to reintrodruce them, but yeah... hasbro, BUY OUR TOYS!!!
Its like damn, they really worked to make them good guys but with how deus ex machina it was and that redesign ughh I hope if they plan to reform Chrysalis it would be more to Discord like reform that its slow buildup to see progress than just straight up "ok im good now bzzap all rainbow and sparkly now"
Original changeling design was awesome because it was so different than rest of mlp, they acted like bunch of teens what give them that vibe that they are not out of place here but just misguided or something.
But anyway knowing hasbro we wouldn't see them in next season and maybe in season after it, only time will show.
God damn hasbro they were cute where you change them into this...
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To be fair to Hasbro, they are a toy company. Heck, the very first MLP series literally existed only to sell their toy line of the same name. I for one am not necessarily opposed to the new change. I think it has a lot of potential for something cool. The drones, for instance, were mostly pretty cool. I just feel like they dialed it up to 11 instead of sticking with 10.
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I'm not sure time will tell, but for me this is great downgrade for them. What problem do they have right now? They don't need anything from ponies right now, there will be maybe something similar to yak episode and thats it (I hope not) or probably like with Twilight, I got wings i know how to fly and suddenly oh wait, after flying perfectly i don't know anymore how to fly anymore... hmm actually that would be funny with that new design and hissing at others.
But antlers? What the hell?!
They just give me too much of bad OC vibe. Randomly mashed bright colors without any sense.
I can give you right that few elements like adding shell, and more variety is ok, but wing for tail its just uhh ... what ?
I'm just angry with how much wasted potential it was (and of course how they just used deus ex machina again), and damn that design ughh I just can't digest it.
Atleast they are not flutterponies
Maybe its me but I liked IDW vision of changelings.
Only chance is in Chrysalis xD
Yeah end of rant (damn that fell good)
you mean that exorcist moment with the pods? ya... that was trippy. and putting that in a show that was meant for kids? uhhh....