Afterthoughts: Dungeons and Discords · 6:36pm Sep 13th, 2016
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Well, this Afterthoughts has been delayed far too long, and I apologize for that. There were numerous elements that converged to cause the delay. Work-related stress caused by the start of the busy season and the newest change in management combined with a mild depression due to the change in temperature and weather. Additionally, I became engrossed in a new game (Deus Ex: Mankind Divided) and a couple of very dear friends of mine got married. With all of this, I just couldn’t get into the proper frame of mind to write down my Afterthoughts.
In addition, “Dungeons and Discords” was an unusually difficult episode for me to decide how to examine. It was a good episode, a great one even. But “Dungeons and Discords” played out a generalized moral circumstance rather than having a singular moral lesson. There were a great many ways you could view what the episode was trying to teach or what it was about.
For example, take a look at how Dr. Wolf approached the episode. He has some wonderful insights on how Spike’s and Big Mac’s characters were reflections of their own desires and insecurities.
Dr. Wolf looks at how Discord is self-promoting and self-centered in his actions, attempting to hijack Guys Night to conform to his own ideas of fun. This is definitely a major element of the episode, and deserves the focus that Dr. Wolf gives it. But as he says, that is merely the stronger lesson that he finds.
Likewise, we can look at the episode in terms of a lesson on giving people a chance. And even a second chance. However, this is a lesson that we have already seen just one episode before with “The Times They Are a Changeling”. Spike has clearly already learned this, and “Dungeons and Discords” makes that fairly clear. The episode serves as a reminder of this previous lesson, but doesn’t dwell on it. These two characters already know, and really only hesitate long enough for the collective sigh before agreeing to call Discord back in.
It is worth pointing out that Discord had not apologized at that point, but he had shown signs of regret and the potential to change. This is important. As I mentioned before, there is a limit to giving people chances. If they have no intention or ability to change, then all you do is become an enabler. Giving people chances when they aren’t going to use them to improve is actually harmful to them.
More thoughts after the break.
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It is no secret that I am a tabletop roleplaying enthusiast, both running and playing such games both locally and online. Currently, I am running two games, one of which is the “Fallout: Beyond Equestria” game that I have talked about often in my blogs, and the other is an Exalted campaign. I also play in two other games each week.
(Although not so much last week, as the DM of one of those games was busy getting married. 
)
I want to take a moment to comment on how excellent a Dungeon Master (/Game Master/Storyteller) Spike is here. Not only does he take the time to invite the awkward and difficult-to-like new guy in, and not only does he give the guy a second chance when the first time goes disastrously, but he first clears both decisions with the rest of the group.
Granted, the rest of the group consists of only one, Big Macintosh, who is an equal contributor in these decisions. But I want to point this out because the DM is usually the one to make this call. There is more to being a Dungeon Master than just creating a setting and a story and NPCs and adventures… And the DM is responsible for maintaining an enjoyable atmosphere in the game.
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The DM must weigh the impact of inviting a questionable new player in regards to how doing so might lessen the game for everyone else. This is an investment of everyone’s time and energy, and it isn’t fair for the DM to arbitrarily introduce an element that makes the game socially unpleasant for several people just out of a desire to extend the hand of friendship to another. Clearing this with the other member of the group and making sure that everyone is on the same page shows an uncommon level of maturity from Spike as a Dungeon Master.
As a side note, I want to answer the question I’m sure many people asked at the beginning of this episode: yes, it is absolutely possible to run a tabletop RPG with just two people. Spike’s method actually works very well.
Personally, I am a proponent of DMPCs – Dungeon Master-played characters – so long as the DM does it right. I lot of people really dislike that idea, often because they have had negative experiences with DMs who made the game about their own character, or who allowed that DMPC to outside the others in a very similar way to how Discord was throwing the spotlight on himself.
Instead, in order to do this right, the DM has to create a character who is useful and interesting, but who doesn't outshine the PCs (player’s characters) or step on anyone's toes. Having a DMPC is very useful, especially in smaller parties as the character can take on a vital role (such as the healer) that nobody else wants to play, allowing the players to craft the characters they wish to play instead of feeling obligated to fill a required role.
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And at least for me (since I lean towards roleplay-intensive games), in an adventure where the party will be on its own, it is good for the DM to have a character with them through which he or she can interact with the other characters.
On the other hoof, I'm not a big proponent of adventure books and modules. I prefer setting books, and DM-crafted stories. I was disappointed to see Spike establishing the scenario by reading out of an adventure book. I can accept this from Spike however, as he is a relatively new DM, and because he does so many other things so impressively.
Personally, however, I find that adventure modules tend to be at best a crutch for DMs who lack either the free time or storytelling imagination to come up with adventures of their own. At worst, they are used by arduous groups like the Pathfinder Society to actively stifle creativity and enforce uniformity of experience. I would be hard-pressed to think of anything more detrimental to the wondrous potential of tabletop roleplaying.
And on a complete tangent, I think Spike got lucky. Having Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash join in the fun is an amazing boost to his game. But imagine having to try to explain “Smarity” if Rarity had joined in. At least he has a seasons-old Pinkie Promise to rely on, and I’m sure Pinkie will help keep Rainbow from making too much of that.
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However, there is another aspect of the morality play of “Dungeons and Discords” that I feel deserves even more focus, and that is Discord’s humbling lesson that he is not a better person than the “sidekicks” he was putting himself above.
Discord is more powerful. He is more versatile. He has boundless potential for what he could do. But none of that has any influence on his quality of character. Having greater skill than someone else makes you better at that skill, not simply better objectively.
Being a skilled fanfiction writer or a “horse-famous” musician or artist does not in any way put you on a pedestal above the rest of the community, save in the specific and extremely limited arena of what you have acclaim for.
Treating others like they are beneath you through a misplaced idea of superiority is not only wrong, but actively works towards the opposite effect of making you a less admirable and respectable person than they are. Morals and behavior, not talent and accomplishment, is the measure of a person as a person. Simply put, if someone acts like a snob or an asshole, no matter what they may be better at, they are worse at being a person than someone who does not.
At the end of “Dungeons and Discords”, Discord comes to this crashing realization. Even still, his first instinct upon being invited back is to self-glorify. This is understandable, as this realization is a brutal shattering of a false self-image, and it is to Discord’s credit that he quickly shifts from trying to cling to the broken pieces of that.
Secondary Stats:
As much as I could have eaten up an entire episode of just the three of them (or even better, the five with Pinkie and RD added) playing Spike’s game in Discord’s altered reality, I’m glad we got to see Discord’s non-chaotic ideas for fun. Jazz and zoot suits! I’ll admit, the first time I saw a zoot suit was in the movie The Mask, so I kept having flashbacks to it in that scene. Which was oddly fitting.
I loved the dogs playing poker. Nice one, Discord.
In my Afterthoughts for “Stranger than Fan Fiction”, I quoted a line from the Nostalgia Critic’s review of Space Jam. And now, a few episodes later, Discord pulls off a Space Jam reference. That feels… a bit awkward, considering.
I loved the PCs for each of the cast involved. Especially Rainbow Dash as a rogue! Perfect! And Pinkie Pie is whatever Ogres and Oubliettes has for a jester or bard class. I also love that they ported Ogres and Oubliettes from the comics into the actual cartoon canon. That’s so awesome!
I’d comment more on Big Macintosh’s and Spike’s choice of characters, but honestly, I cannot add any insight that Dr. Wolf didn’t already express in the linked video.
"Opposite Fluttershy"!
There was some nice continuity, both with Spike and Big Mac hanging out while the Mane Six are off on adventures, and Pinkie's knowledge of Yakyakistan. "Did I forget to mention there's a pony-eating yeti?" Yes, Pinkie, yes you did.
In fact, the entire train station scene was fun, from the "mysterious" change of the route into an active volcano (and Fluttershy's perfect expressions) to Big Mac shoving his sister into the train, to Spike's painfully nerdy comment to Rarity (and the well-earned eyeroll response). I got a kick out of Spike's comment "I do like basking in things." (And was Applejack making a dig at Rarity about the boots?)
There was some great designs and animation in this. The alternate reality created by Discord had many wonderful touches. The cardboard bad guys with their amusingly blocky running animation was hilarious. And all the arrows cards on sticks was brilliant. Fluttershy had some wonderful expressions. And the jazz lounge ponies had some classy new designs. I love the effort that the animators put into bringing this episode to life.
art by Bakuel
About the only issue I had with it was how RD and Pinkie some how suddenly had character sheets apparently made up in a second as soon as they stepped into the altered reality.
Other then that I do agree with you on the episode being rather good.
One of the things that really caught me off-guard (in a good way) was when Pinkie and RD jump into the 'game'. Pinkie's appearance was fine, being that she would be playing "the spoony Bard" role of the group, and would totally fit her nature, but Dash being a rogue...
When she leaps into the game, she goes from normal to being a rogue/thief. Such a character type isn't going to have the cleanest of clothes or the nicest of armor or the most well-trimmed mane. No, such a character is going to live life at the edge of a sword, using wits and dexterity to win the day. And you see that in her game-design. Her clothes are a bit rough and dinged. Her wing feathers show nicks and cuts and don't look quite so well preened. Scuff marks show on her boots. Her hooves are slightly rough. It all shows in just a few seconds that this isn't just a Copy/Paste of Rainbow Dash into a game outfit, but they took the time to make the outfit as real as it would be for the character wearing it.
I don't know why such a minor, itty bitty detail makes me so happy to see, but it's just I can see the "care" the animators did in just those few frames. Again, Pinkie is pretty much dropped in with just an outfit change, but you wouldn't expect the bard character to be getting in hooves-deep in trouble with a skeleton warrior like a rogue.
Also, I'm okay with using modules if you're using it to start the campaign. Obviously parts of the module are straight from the book, but Spike's also gone and made it more than just the module. Spiketopia, Princess Smarity, Squizard, each little detail he's done to make the world not just one in the book, but to make it just world where they're merely acting in a single 'act' of a much larger play.
Plus, he's young. He doesn't want to have to have EVERYTHING set up. He likes to leave things up to chance. He lets the dice do some of the DMing as well. And honestly, sometimes just rolling with what you have got (dice puns!) can be fun.
But yeah, great episode. Love, love, loved it so hard.
4208167 In the words of the Dungeon Master....
i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/816/its-magic-i-aint-gotta-explain-shit2.jpg
Just assume it's part of Discord's magic and/or hum the theme to MST3K. Both work well.
4208167 Twilight was the only one who could keep their secret girl's night O&O game a secret?
Although given that Spike just handed Discord an archer sheet, he was probably using pregens for new players, so...
Sorry to hear that, I hope things get better.
This episode took me back to when I got the chance to join a Dungeons and Dragons session with my friends. I'll admit, I didn't think much of it aside from the times I had sat around at school working on projects while my teacher was running a session about ten feet from me with that same group of friends, but when I got to be involved it was a lot of fun.
Sadly, I never got the chance to continue due to conflicting schedules, but my first and last session was a blast nonetheless. 
The moment I saw that suit I immediately thought of The Mask!
I couldn't stop laughing at that. Discord has good taste in suits. 
Overall, I thought this was a pretty fun episode and one that I would gladly revisit.
"Oh yeah, I forgot about that," was my response when I heard that.
So much this. it's the main reason I always seem ot find a way to have the party bring along a GMPC with them, and yes so long as the GM is able to treat their character just like any other character, it's great. Luckily I jumped into having to do that from the start, as our GM had IRL stuff come up and couldn't keep going so I ended up taking over, but already had a character in the game. (Oddly enough, my Magus was the ONLY character that was still in the party from the first session (kind of) everyone else had either died or left the group.)
But given that I also go more for Story/RP over Game.Mechanics, I like having a character around that can just, kind of nudge the party in the right direction if they start getting distracted by things, or are a bit lost and not sure where to go or what to do. And generally end up with it being characters the party enjoys... biggest win there was Starswirl. (Not the bearded, based on Sereg's "Starswirl the Truthseeker" series.) Earth Pony wizard that meant well, was super enthusiastic about helping, and a real prodigy when it came to finding things (Specializing in Divination magic) but... she had Evocation as a bared school for a reason...... She meant well, but often tended to... not quite get it right. (She once set her tail on fire trying to conjure a Wall of Fire.)
So yeah well with you there, and I've only used GM created stuff... mostly because Ponyfinder has no modules I am aware of, and even then, I'd likely just use them as a base and build off them like Spike seemed to be doing.
Did anyone notice the fact that the food of a pony-eating yeti would be ponies? Either Pinkie plans on feeding her friends to the damn thing, or all that Pinkamena stuff is totally confirmed and she brought a... victim along. I 'spose feeding her friends to yetis is also pretty Pinkamena-ish, actually, depending on who you ask.
Rainbow Dash feels more like a warrior type character to me, due to her first instincts being "punch first, ask questions later" and her tendency to pulling a Leeroy Jenkins
I liked the episode, particularly the lesson you highlight on not looking down one's nose as people because they are less skilled/ intelligent / interesting in the snob's opinion.
And while this is hardly a lesson bronies should need to be reminded of, it also felt like it was stressing that people shouldn't look down others for having a hobby they consider strange.
I feel like Pinkie and Rainbow Dash enthusiastically jumping into the game, in defiance of the rest of the group seeming to think it was weird, though to their credit they were respectful.
That said I was surprised that Twilight seemed to not know what it was and find it odd, but I guess it's good to buck stereotypes like Twilight being into OnO automatically because she is nerdy.
Though that excerpt from the comic - which I need to read in full - seems odd in that context.
____
My only other thing to ramble about is that I've been interested in DnD for a long time, but never had a suitable group to play it.
(Aside two times with two different friends, the first of which involved an amusing argument on whether or not eating poisoned food should heal since it was resisted. I was clearly in the wrong.)
Me and my brother could probably do one, but I was always under the impression that you wanted at least four people for a game - one DM and three players.
Two player DnD seems interesting as a possibility, particularly since making up stories, characters, and settings is something we've done together since we were little kids.