The Race is Off! · 3:48pm Jul 5th, 2016
Oooh, I’m going to get in trouble for this one…
art by Shattered-Earth
I love the above picture. I saw it available at Sakura-Con last year and had to buy it. It's now hanging on my wall above my computer.
Contemplating what you would do within certain circumstances or restraints can be an enjoyable pastime and a good exercise of the imagination. I have occasionally been asked, for example, who I would choose as voice actors/actresses for the characters in Fallout: Equestria if I choose anybody. Way back when Ghostbusters II first came out, I spent a fair bit of time imagining what sequel to the original Ghostbusters I would have made. Just the other day, I played around with "who would I cast if I was making a Ghostbusters movie and it had to be a reboot rather than a sequel?" I'm sure we have all thought about these sorts of things from time to time.
I use Ghostbusters as my example because it is also a current example of how a lot of people get seriously defensive and bent out of shape when someone decides to interpret (or re-interpret) a character they love with a gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity that they don't consider "right". (Granted, I think the new Ghostbusters movie looks like it will be absolutely awful, but that has nothing to do with the gender of the characters. And just because the trailers make me cringe doesn't change the fact that early on a lot of people reacted negatively just because of the gender change.)
Yeah, I've contemplated this too. Because it could be awesome.
art by dan232323
In the brony fandom, I find that we are a lot more accepting when it comes to gender and sexual identity, but clearly there are still issues when it comes to being open-minded or accepting of fan interpretations. Yep, I’m going to tackle the topic of racial depictions of humanized ponies. And then I’m going to talk about the thought process I would take if I attempted to do the same.
Recently, two MLP artists have posted (largely well-received) rants on DeviantArt rejecting the often racist comments they are bombarded with because they choose to depict the humanized versions of the characters from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic with a variety of races. Here are a couple snippits:
from Lopoddity:
None of the ponies have an assigned human race or design. No fan interpretation is more correct than another.
Lauren Faust herself has said that the ponies' fur color has no significance in assigning a human race for them. And of course, the mane six have the exact same pony model, so possibilities are endless when imagining human body types to give them. So if that's true, why do I see so many fans getting outright hostile when an artist humanizes a pony in a way they don't like? Especially when the humanization isn't White. Or fat, or just a bit curvy. Or wearing clothes the commenter doesn't like. Or not having a round bug-eyed anime face with giant tits.
Pretty much any time an artist doesn't humanize one of the mane six as a supermodel-thin young White girl, they're gonna have a bad time. Passive aggressive comments, outright racism, et cetera. Why is that? I thought bronies preached love and tolerance.
Humans are a diverse species, and I love diversity. I lament the lack of it in modern media, especially for all the kids (like my wee past self) that have to grow up with barely any positive characters that look like them on television, or in books and movies. So I have numerous ideas for how to humanize the mane six.
from Kilala97:
I made the characters different races because that's how I see them. I want them this way. It's not often I see a character that looks like me in the media (compared to how many white people I see anyways). Black people are probably the largest minority in television and movies and it made me think about just how little we see Asians, Middle Easterners, Mexicans, Pacific Islanders and pretty much every other minority out there. The fact that I have friends with these ethnical backgrounds and based the characters off of them made me happy to be able represent so many different people. It was amazing to seen in the comments how excited people got to see the Mane 6 as people who looked like them.
Right off, let me say that I applaud the stance these two, and other artists like them, are taking. I have a few minor points of contention, but I am absolutely on board with the assertion that artists should be able to depict the Mane 6 and others as whatever human race they damn well want to. And that the people who are questioning (or worse, attacking) them for doing so have issues.
Admittedly, I feel that when Lopoddity in the comments starts extolling race-bending as good and whitewashing as evil, while she has a completely understandable argument, she loses some of the high ground she had with the “artists are free to depict as they wish” platform. In my opinion, Kilala97 had the better position when she said this:
I don't mind if you make all your characters white. That's your choice. That's what you see. I'm not calling you racist or a white supremacist for doing so because I like to think that you're probably not. You might be, but I'm not going to assume. Just like you shouldn't assume that I'm trying to say that white people shouldn't exist or that I'm racist for wanting to see some diversity.
My thoughts below the break.
art by Kilala97
It is inherently racist to treat white as the default race, which is what a question like “Why did you make Twilight black?” does. There is no default race. Any set of behaviors and personality traits can belong to people of any ethnicity. The very idea that there needs to be an explanation or justification for the choice is wrong. And the artists are correct in pointing out that virtually nobody asks “Why did you make Twilight white?” If you find yourself looking at a humanized pony and thinking “the race is off”, then you would do well to examine your own biases for that reaction.
That said, I find “Why did you make Rarity black?” a more acceptable question, if only because Equestria Girls did give us a white humanoid Rarity. But then, by the same measure, “Why did you make Fluttershy white?” would be an equally valid query. And frankly, I think Equestria Girls pretty much had to go with depicting the characters as they did; if Hasbro had chosen to assign them human races, they would have faced a shitstorm no matter what they chose.
art by uotapo
Of course, having established that anyone should be able to depict the cast of the show as whatever ethnicity they like, the question that naturally came to mind was: how would I choose to depict them? It was an interesting question for me to toy with particularly because I didn’t have an ethnic preference for how they are depicted. With neither an ethnic default, nor an idea of which race felt most “appropriate” to individual characters, I found myself approaching the question from the angle of analyzing the show rather than a personal preference towards homogeny or diversity.
I certainly didn’t have in human races in mind for my own characters; the closest I came to that was choosing an African-American when asked who I could imagine as Velvet Remedy’s voice actress. (The argument that the races of characters should match that of their voice actors, which some made to Kilala97 and Lopoddity, is just stupid.) I found myself thinking along rather interesting world-building lines and I thought I would share them.
If I was going to create human versions of the cast, I couldn’t go about it the way that the artists quoted above do – creating them as they personally envision them – simply because I don’t have any mental image of what human races the Mane 6 would be. So instead, I would do my best to base them off of what the show gives us in an attempt to make the most reasonable interpretation possible within the set constraints.
Looking at the show, I can see no valid argument for claiming the “correct” depiction of the Mane 6 is racially homogenous. Alternately, the obvious and lazy argument (even if debunked by Lauren Faust) is to claim the characters promote complete diversity because their coats are all different colors. The urge would be to assign races accordingly. Obviously this means an Asian Fluttershy, a Caucasian Rarity and an African-American Applejack because orange is the new black.
Putting that silliness aside, I find that the show unequivocally depicts the Mane Six as a group with limited racial diversity. Races absolutely exist in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
from “Flight to the Finish”:
Scootaloo: So... what's special about Ponyville? It's... It's... I got it! It's a place where different kinds of ponies live together as friends!
Apple Bloom: Earth ponies like me!
Sweetie Belle: Unicorns like me!
Scootaloo: And Pegasi like me! So somehow we got to figure out a way to show that in our act.
If I had to choose human races for the characters, I would therefore be inclined to assign different human races to the pegasi, earth ponies and unicorns. But I don’t have any idea which races I would depict them as. I stopped the mental exercise before reaching any conclusions. No conclusions felt appropriate.
However, I was able to decide which races I would not assign to them. While stereotyping is dangerous, there is such a thing as coding. And I do feel that, for better or worse, there are a few examples of racial coding in the show.
art by Shonuff44
It is hard to argue that Zecora isn’t coded as African. Honestly, thinking along this line is a bit uncomfortable, not the least of which because of the nasty racial inferences some people have jumped to regarding my own work.
Let’s be clear: I was in no way considering zebras as a stand-in for people of any ethinicity when I wrote Fallout: Equestria. In fact, I went out of my way to make the zebras a blending of multiple cultural references (blending Chinese, African, Aztec and ancient Roman elements). The war depicted in the story was not a racial war. It was a war between nations – a resource war that evolved into a religious one.
Bear in mind that I was trying to adhere to canon as much as possible, and that I only had S1 to work with until the final chapters, when the second season started and a few elements from S2 could be tossed in. The episode “Bridal Gossip” gave us this:
from “Bridal Gossip”:
Twilight Sparkle: She's a zebra.
Everyone but Twilight: A what!?
Twilight Sparkle: A zebra, and her stripes aren't a fashion choice Rarity, they're what she was born with.
Applejack: Born where? I've never seen a pony like that in these parts, 'cept... her!
Twilight Sparkle: Well, she's probably not from here, and she's not a pony. My books say that zebras come from a faraway land. But I've never seen her in Ponyville. Where does she live?
The episode “Dragonshy” had already confirmed there were lands outside of Equestria. The above quote gave me the only reasonable, canon people outside of Equestria that I could forge into a rival nation. That is why the zebras were chosen for that role. But given the clear racial coding for Zecora, I cannot deny that the tools are there for people to forge a racist conclusion about the story, especially if they were determined to believe the worst.
All that aside, if I had to choose human races for the characters, I couldn’t justify choosing any race other than African for Zecora. And thus, in my world-building thought process, that would exclude making any of the pony races the same.
And while I am on less sure footing here, I perceive one more example of racial coding: griffins.
art by GlancoJusticar
Gustav is very clearly being depicted as the MLP equivalent of French. And personally, Gilda has always struck me as German or possibly Scandinavian. Either way, the general feeling that comes across to me is that griffins are European. And that most easily translates racially to Caucasian.
As a result, the most show-accurate depiction in my mind would be that none of the pony characters would translate to either black or white…
…and honestly, that’s as far as I got with the whole mental exercise before I abandoned it completely. Anything beyond this felt random or would delve into stereotyping. I didn’t feel comfortable assigning human races – any races – to the cast of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
My conclusion? Any artist should feel free to depict any character from the show as any human ethnicity they personally feel is appropriate, without facing judgment or hassle from others. As for me personally, while the choice of ethnicity in such art will continue to have no bearing on whether or not I like it, if I was going to create art or write a story that depicted human versions of the character, I would consider the most suitable way to go is to not go there at all. I think Equestria Girls got it right.
art by geekladd
(As a complete aside: my choices for a Ghostbusters reboot would have been: Chris Tucker in the role of a business doctorate and college professor in cinematography who at the start of the film is trying to keep his friends' weird scientific pursuits from bankrupting them by filming their paranormal investigations as episodes of a "Ghost Hunters" knock-off, Jesse Eisenberg as the odd scientific genius, Jack Black as his best friend and scientific paranormal enthusiast, and Emma Watson as the Kylie Griffin-inspired goth occult bookstore owner who is hired on to round out the team for her occult expertise.)
Building on that, and the rather obvious parallels of the official map of Equestria and the USA, one could say Equestria is a bit of a cultural melting pot, and thus race matters even less.
...no matter what some fearmongering US politicians say these day
At least the Buffalos are obvious
Well, I'll refrain from the exercise because like you, I'm afraid I could dwell into the unpleasant stereotyping grounds. But I must agree that there is no better way to translate ponies into human forms than Equestria Girls.
As far as I know, the reason why people vehemently hate the Ghostbusters reboot is because of the point they (at least seem to be) trying to make by having the cast female. This made people push back because changing a casts' gender to "improve" it is not okay, and they wanted to make that very clear.
Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight for example is almost completely female. Most, if not all of the relevant characters are female or androgynous. Despite this, I have seen nobody complain about it, as it just happened. It being mostly female wasn't pointed out, it was just there. So nobody cared.
Also, I've heard that Changeling would be considered Jewish. Whether this is for being stereotyped into a monster pretending to be a person but has no feelings, and in actuality is completely normal and was made out to be the big bad evil by fearmongering, or if the person I was talking to was just being really, really, racist.
It's hard to tell when he's joking sometimes, but I'm fairly certain he's not actually anti-semitic and is just memeing. Probably.
My approach has been to make the ponies whichever race has the most convenient pun for their name.
For example. I made Fluttershy a muslim so that I could name her "Falti Shai":
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67.media.tumblr.com/14e355ebe60ea757fb48239f6b3887db/tumblr_o8gb3gF4VW1sz5ekuo2_r1_540.png
and made Twilight Chinese so I could name her "Tai-lai"
66.media.tumblr.com/02d6bd22681be2b621da186ba88b726b/tumblr_o84csvEak51sz5ekuo1_1280.png
Other names I've thought about:
AJ = April Jacqueline (USA, probably from south appalachian area)
Rarity Belle = Rory T. Belle (short for Aurora, probably French)
Pinkie Pie = Peggy Paer (Scottish)
RD = Dashi (Indian)
A question for you though: if you absolutely had to decide on an actress to actually play a humanized littlepip, calamity and velvet remedy, would you go for the same people as your voice actor picks?
Yeah.
I don't really have anything to add, you make a great point.
And that idea for a Ghostbusters reboot is top-notch.
Huh. Never ever hear something like this. I even doubt that they could be connected to any human race because I'm pretty sure that they based on this.
Equestria Girls did probably do the smart thing by making pastel colored humans. Still, just imagine the kerfuffle if they did go with mixing up the character's skin colors. (And used character models that actually looked human...)
4069803 4069898
What kinda crazy are you two speaking? Everypony knows Rarity is Jewish. (A religion is not a race. At all.)
4069946
There are often racial characteristics to those who come from Jewish families do have common genetic traits, often negative. Examples being allergies, Tay-Sachs disease, and mental diseases in general.
The main theory on why this happened is that since the Jewish faith was closed off to others for so long that with a limited breeding pool, incest was bound to happen.
Similar to what happened with monarchies.
Despite this, it is now possible for others to become Jewish in faith, even if the process is arduous.
TL;DR: It's complicated and we've been looking for a concrete answer for a century now.
Oh hey! I remember that picture!
...They're ponies... Ponies aren't human, nor will they ever be (minus an exception or three). It's completely ridiculous to assign human races to ponies, given that the most commonly used traits to define human races aren't present in ponies. It's like assigning dog breeds to people based off of arbitrary thoughts.
That being said, I understand why the argument comes up. People humanize ponies, and that leads to the obvious problem of defining their race, which isn't canonly specified. We in this fandom have a problem with accepting things that don't fit our "headcanons". But they're just that: headcanons. Who cares what race someone thinks a pony is, because at the end of the day it doesn't have a correct answer. And if someone thinks it does, well, they can have fun living in their little bubble, as long as they don't feel the need to enforce their opinion as if it's fact.
In conclusion: Arbitrarily assigning races based off of human ideals to ponies is stupid, and arbitrarily assigning a single race to humanized ponies, and expecting it to be universal, is a bunch of racist crap.
4069803 I've heard comparisons to Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany myself.
I thought about it once. I couldn't find any real ground to make good assumptions from.
We can all understand that Zecora is supposed to be similar to an African, but would that mean that only Zebras were black if made human? That ponies are all something else?
I don't really ponder this much, I think EQG was smart keeping them mostly the same colors as their coats.
Although, Big Mac was white for some reason.
Huh. I'll be honest, at first, I had no idea why you thought you'd be bashed for liking that first image. I've seen Derpibooru flare up with this issue in the past, but I've never really seen the importance of it. It's the artist's prerogative. To each their own.
Well, my thoughts on the CMC are that they're two dictionaries and a chicken. And Fluttershy identifies with being a Tree-American.
I kid. It doesn't matter. I can see the Gustav and Gilda comparison. Griffons such as heraldic griffins were often a symbol of a lot of European Coat of Arms. Oh... and Rarity's landlord, Mr. Stripes... he's totally Russian! But that's pretty obvious.
Race is a delusion we have honestly. Someone who is chinese, japanese, murican, british, or canadian have their own beliefs, foods, pionts of view, and so on. But we are all still human beings by the end fo the day. Must as people don't want to believe it.
The only invalid point of view that exists, is the ones that people use as excuses for hurting others or degrading others.
The ponies have much larger gaps they seem to easily jump across here, cause often times the other 'races' they itneract with are of a different species. Even amongst theri own there are radical differences between unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies. One can cast spells and levitate objects, one can fly and manipulate the weather, and one is strong as stone and even more enduring. Yet they come together inspite of these differences, that are infinitely more extreme than anythingt between two humans.
They are accepting to the majority, if they are also a little bit cautious at first. Gryphons, zebra, dragons, yaks, buffalo, even minotaurs. The issues they have do exist, but somehow to a far lesser degree than we ever could, and with far more obstacles than simply skin color and ethnics.
I've read FoE several times and while there was racial tension among some characters, especially prewar, I did not feel as if it was a major part of the story. Rather it was a side effect due to frustrations on both sides of the dispute.
Kilala97 and Loppoditty. Know those two. I have a comment of the first NextGen picture when she started. And Loppoditty banned me for close to no reason.
I'm giving the new Ghostbusters movie a chance if it comes out at our theater. Planning to see it with my sister. (Can't say Transformers didn't darken my view of reboots. So here's hoping it's enjoyable. I really like the original two.)
I have to say if that's someones question, I have to wonder what their implying there?
Twilight if anything never really expressed anything in her character other then she's smart, bookish, and highly organized... Maybe even powerful because of all the knowledge she's learned through the years, even if trying to be honest about it. That speaks more of character then race. Bringing up race like that in that question certainly seems like an insult rather then a thought out question.
4069788 Truth be told, the whole episode reminds me of the disputes of Settlers and Native Americans over the lands the Settlers would push the Natives Americans from in the expansion to the west.
It's very likely Equestria Girls was pastel color for this exact reason. Hasbro did the smart thing instead of trying to please everyone, where not everyone will be satisfied. So just keep the colorful equine coat colors from the show.
I can unfortunately see why people do not like human skin colors in viewing fan art, and I have observed some racial skin colors absolutely triggers people browsing art. It is so petty of a reason not to like art, then other people make edits seemingly so people can debate what racial skin color is correct, right or true in arguments. Choice of human skin color, is not a problem to me either in art.
4070054
In actual Russians eye he look and behave maybe a one step above outright criminal. Well, pretty much this.
Pretty much have to agree with you on that thought exercise. It's clear that Zecora is meant to be "African" and coded towards that, then you have the buffalo that are clearly meant to be native American expies, So yes "Race" translations from Equestria to IRL are more about species then individuals. And there really is no clear way to mark most ponies. Though I would say that Pegasi give off a very ancient Greco-Roman feel, between their architecture, the whole warrior thing and their armor, banners etc from the play, So I would say it's easy to see pegasi as most closely matching a Mediterranean human.
So in that respect I can see why some people would kind of feel that way. The if it's clear that 'race' is really a matter of 'species' then there isn't much support for calling the Mane 6 racially diverse beyond being the three types of ponies. But then you get to the issue of, as you said, there not really being any clear 100% 1:1 correlation at play. So really, it is just one big quagmire where yeah, the only way to really deal with it... is just let people think/draw what they want. If someone draws them in a way you don't like, that is on you, and you can just not follow that artist, no need to bitch at them about it.
4069796 Gotta disagree on that.... oh the color thing, yeah spot on, but the rest of what they look like....uuuuggghhh those could be so so much better designed.
4070003
^THIS^
Which along with this
Are one big big reason, I really freaking HATE Allegory. Trying to claim something in a story is really this other, unrelated IRL thing, and then using that IRL issue as some club agsint the story, or to drone on and on about it's 'message' that has nothing at all to do with the story, but just you using it as a Rorschach Drawing and seeing what you want to bitch/ drone on about and using 'allegory' as an excuse. 90% of the time, it's just pure horseapples anyway.
I'm 100% with Tolkien on this one.
4070299
Often when I think back to Zecora's first episode, I can't help but think back to the witch hunts rather then straight out racism. It's pretty much just as bad, but there is a difference. Fear of the unknown. Hatred of those different and misdirected blame to those who are blamed for others misfortunes. Perceived misconception built on fear and ignorance rather logical and facts.
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I will admit that my headcanon for the Mane 6's human-analog races does tend to stick to stereotypes, but there is a reason for that—stereotypes are more often than not based in some element of truth.
Twilight I always saw as being Indian (as in from India), particularly due to the study habits she exhibits. One of my best friends growing up was born in New Delhi, and his family moved here when he was a toddler.
We met when we were both 9, and I was literally his first friend. He and Purplesmart had a similar attitude towards friendship, that of it being an unnecessary distraction, and he literally sat at the edge of the playground, reading a book thicker than my arm for the first two weeks of school.
I went up to him and dumped dirt on his head.
After the ensuing (and obligatory) fight, we became fast friends (he introduced me to Tolkien, and I showed him the wonders of the age-old attempt of digging to China), and when I started watching FiM, it struck me how uncannily similar Sid and Twilight were. Ever since then, I always imagine her as a fairly light-to-medium skinned Indian girl.
Pinkie Pie and her family, given that the vast majority of Amish/Mennonite families are Caucasian, is of Germanic descent
Rainbow Dash is a bit more difficult; given the fairly Hellenic stylings that both her home and Cloudsdale seem to have, I can see her as being of Greek heritage; however, due to the Ancient Greeks enjoying a strong tie and cultural exchange with Ethiopia, with both civilizations adopting from one another and immigrating between each other, I can see her as either Mediterranean or Ethiopian; given her penchant for sports, probably Greek.
Rarity is another one that is hard to place; however, judging by the accents of her parents, one would be able to place her origin as American Midwestern, which could point to fully Caucasian, or American Indian/Hispanic heritage mixed with Caucasian.
Applejack is more than likely white; really, I can't imagine her any other way. Sorry.
Fluttershy I can see as being more than likely Ethiopian-Greek.
4070336 You are right, Bridle Gossip had NOTHING at all to do with Racism of any kind. This is a hard, provable fact. How? Because not one single pony ever even thought Zecora was a different 'race'. They all thought she was just another pony, just with an odd coat color. Yes, that was more about fear of the unknown. They were not scared of Zecora because she wasn't one of 'them' (I.E. their race) but because she lived somewhere creepy as hell and acted odd. Her "Race" never played into it at all, beyond her being different enough to trigger that fear of the unknown. Soon as she was no longer and 'unknown' ponies forgot all about ever being scared of her and were just as open and kind and friendly as they were with anyone else.
I like this seeing the main cast as white people has everything to do with us trying to project our own bias and identity onto things that don't have them, case in point one zecora as a black woman, nothing in the show goes the way saying she's black all it said is that she tribal. That could make her any race because many types of people are tribal, Latin people, Asian people, even white people. But we see her as black because that's what most people think when they think of tribal.
To ignore the majority of the blog post, I'm sorry, why aren't you writing the Ghost Busters reboot?
I see Zecora more as being "foreign" than African. Her voice actress is using a heavy African-esque accent for the character, granted, but her interior borrows from both African, Native American, and - if I remember correctly - Polynesian cultures. Also, while most of her interior IS African, and zebras themselves do only exist in Africa, the sheer variety of cultures represented from East to West of the continent makes any allegory strange in my head.
To me, as a Scandinavian, that means that I inherently picture her as dark-skinned, but to me, as a Scandinavian, EVERYONE is dark-skinned. I look at albinos and think "I wish I could get such a nice tan." I could easily see Zecora as a Roma. With their broad culture and tradition for travel, that actually works better for me than African, since no-one could look generically "African" enough -- There is six times as much generic variety in Africa as in the rest of the world combined, for crying out loud.
4069803 I heard very nasty comments even before it was clear that the studio was making a (from the look of it very stupid and very sexist) point of using an all-female crew.
The manga-ka group CLAMP is almost always referred to as "the all-female group CLAMP," even when the artists' gender are not important for the topic of the conversation or article, whereas I have never seen an all-male artist group referred by their gender.
Considering that most people feel the most comfortable among -- and primarily make friends with -- people of their own gender, I would really like to see more all-female groups where no one mentions that fact.
4070542
I suppose I'm an outlier then. Mos of my friend have been female, including my only childhood friend.
I've never been in any sort of romantic relationship with any of them.
I just think people care way too goddamn much about what other people do in their personal lives.
Though in my family, gender roles are pretty much nonexistent, so I was brought up not even knowing that they existed and that people cared about them until I was 13 or so.
I still can't comprehend why people care what another person's junk in the trunk is, for really any reason other than who will be doing what and how during sexytimes.
4070573 That's why I wrote "most people" -- I have absolutely NOTHING against mixed-gender groups or people being together with whomever they please, and I apologise if my comment could be seen as such. I simply tire of the amount of all-male groups where gender is never mentioned versus the amount of all-female ditto.
4070596
No offense was taken in the first place. It's not the first nor will it be the last time where I'm an oddity.
Learning to take pride in being weird is good when the person doing it is a genetic/mental catastrophe.
I've only seldomly assigned straight races to the characters, and instead use regions or nationalities instead. Just like the griffons you showed, Gilda seems to come from your bratty teen from the UK or the US, while Gustav is obviously french. Like how you can see a person of African heritage have the French accent and perfor mannerisms or customs associated with France, and another person of African heritage clearly perform and speak like what you associate with China. They could have been born there and have all those distinct auras around them, but not everyone with those quirks and mannerisms are of the same race. Accents that the characters have also plays a major role when I associate a character with a nationality or region. Gilda's lines make me lean toward a US association rather than a UK one despite their similar cultures, Zecora's is a big fruit salad of different cultures so it gives off the image of a extensive traveller like Gypsies. Clearly distinct but borrowing from a multitude of cultures.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.......... fuck.
I know, one hell of a way to start my response, but geez Kkat.... uh, lets see...
Well, first, I don't think it had anything to do with an all female recast. Oh, I'm sure there were the usual stick stirrers and feminist fake accounts throwing cats amongst the pigeons, but... most of the hate from the reboot stems from
1, People think that the chance of it being done again died with Ramos.
2.The obvious cash grab
3.All these later, and the effects are still better in the original then the reboot
4.Its just so damn boring.
I mean... come on. I'm not a big ghostbuster fan, but I can tell comedy. The original is a mastery of this dry dark humor, and the reboot... its just a snl sketch. A safe snl sketch <Shudders>
Onto your assessment... I agree with you on diversity, but I hate it when its captain planet token style
or worse done in complete ignorance of historical facts
Also... Lopoddity, oh christ. Kilala a nice girl, but Lop... I've spoken to both, and Lop... Great artist, and wonderful sense of humor, but... Enjoys the use of the phrase "invalidation of experience" sort of girl.
Does anyone remember the Steven Universe incident where that poor soul did fan work of Garnet and those assholes hounded the girl because she wasn't "Black enough," Hell, they drove her to attempted suicide, then while in the hospital, they sought out its address to hound her further. So... I think we should be careful with this hot potato.
God help us all
So now everyone feels the need to somehow diversify different ethnic and possibly religious groups with different species within the MLP lore. Only among Americans I guess . . . . . . . . . . .
hi hi
As an artist, who has occasionally been asked to draw human versions of ponies, this is a subject that I've devoted a lot of time and thought to already. I'll try to be brief though.
My view on depictions or race isn't, if you'll excuse the term, black and white. I totally agree that people should be able to draw characters however they want without being attacked or harassed. Also, when people are drawing characters for their own personal enjoyment, other people should try to refrain from being overly critical; and when people are drawing characters for public consumption, other people should still at least try to be constructive with any criticism they might have. However, with that being said, I will also totally give people a bit of extra support and encouragement when they decide to draw characters with diversity, which is not the same thing as discouraging people who do not. Not necessarily because of the work by itself, but because of the context that surrounds us and makes representation kinda important.
The racism I saw on pony image sites like derpibooru, when any time someone posted a picture of Rarity as having dark skin there would always be a bunch of hate, is one of the reasons I stopped going to those sites.
I think perhaps one argument for why Zecora isn't necessarily African, might be due to how vague the term is in general. Africa is a large continent that is by far the most genetically diverse place on Earth, it is culturally diverse, and even religiously diverse.
On Equestria's side of things, if you get into pre-Pleistocene extinction species of equines like Equus Simplicidens, things get a little bit more complex too. But I digress, keepin' it brief here.
And I think as far as the buffalo go, because the episode was not about making people feel guilty about things that happened before they were born but rather it was about learning how to resolve conflicts today, I think there are a lot of groups they could potentially represent. They could be natives in Brazil who are currently struggling against deforestation and dam construction, people in Nicaragua struggling to save Lake Nicaragua from a canal, first nation people in Canada struggling to preserve their lands from tar sands and shale exploitation, aboriginal people in Australia struggling to hold their lands, or they could be the native americans in my own state who are currently struggling to prevent a pipeline from being run through their ancestral burial grounds. (And that's not even counting the current issues surrounding refugees and immigrants trying to find safety in wealthy countries today.)
But really, in the end, I like to think that My Little Pony is trying to be instructional without being allegorical. Way back in the day I saw this little image and I think it explains better than I can with words, a big part of why sidestepping direct allegory works so well for My Little Pony.
Interesting piece. I got a hint of this a while back when designing the human versions of the FO:E characters for GoE. I definitely caught some flak for some of the design decisions.
However, it never occurred to me that Hasbro was avoiding racial identity issues with the EqG coloring. That's actually a stroke of genius and a brilliant marketing move on their part. While I don't think anyone was incredibly thrilled with the coat color becoming the skin color, I'm sure it would have been a lot more dramatic if they had actually made them full humans.
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I never knew how much I wanted to see an episode of FiM with Pinkie redubbed in the thickest scottish accent possible.
you know, ten years ago this probably would have not been such a touchy subject, sadly the Social Justice people have literally pushed things so far, were likely going to deal with a new generation of racists. It's shockingly amazingly sad. truly it is.
As for what would have made the ponies. Just looking at their history, it's quit clear where they would have come from, Europe. England if I were to pick a country. But it's clear, not in just MLP lore, but also in Mythology, the ponies were European in Idea. As the Zebras are African, the Buffalo are Native American, the Griffins are Eastern European, the Yaks are Mongolian, and the Saddle Arabians are probably Arabians.
That's how I would do it, and as for any other demographic, just look for the local hoofed animals from their country, and run with that. Like lets say for Japan, you could use the Sika deer, or a pony, maybe both.
As for what other people do, I do like the black/indian Twilight look, as it matches what she already looks like, same for a white rarity, but in the end I don't care, it's just one persons interpretation. If someone is going over the top about what races they should, or should not be, then their the once with the race problem, not the artist, and they should reflect on what they are doing. (This gose for the Steven Universe fandom, if you think it's racist to draw the gem characters as white, to the point of harassing the artist, then you may be the real racist in that argument.)
Side note, On the hole Ghost Busters thing, the original hubub of the all female cast seemed more as people seeing red flags then anything else. When I heard about it, it felt a lot like gender based pandering to me. Then when the trailer came out, it only confirmed my worries. I'm sure the actresses are good at their jobs, and could pull off a good Ghost Busters, but it's clear the directer is pandering to women, and pushing an agenda, which makes the movie more of a political statement then a ghost busters movie. That's what got so many people pissed off, we wanted the Ghost Busters, and not whatever this movie is.
I enjoy seeing people make humanized (though I don't care much for) ponies of color. Mostly because I imagine why they might have chosen a certain race for a specific character and I always find myself liking it. I might be a little racist, but most people are to some extent. I'm used to seeing all-white casts, so it's nice to have diversity every now and then.
The beginning reminded me how in my time of active "His Dark Materials" fandom I discussed with other other fans who would we cast for Marisa Coulter if movies were made. Opinions were split in half between Nicole Kidman (my camp) and someone else. Because Kidman was just so perfect for playing a bitch in power! Guess who played the role in Golden Compass ^_^ The movie still sucked harder than any of fans predicted >_>
As for the griffins: yes, Gustav was surely French. But in "The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone" other griffins were quite obviously given the worst stereotypes of Jews. I'm not the only one who's noticed it. Though I'm glad that most people apparently don't. As Chef in S04E07 "South Park - Chef Goes Nanners" said: "Our kids are so not racist that they don't understand why this flag is racist."
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P.S. UOTAPO IS TRYING TO MURDER US!
4070259 I wasn't aware that was a thing. Also, mostly I got that feeling because of GTA 4.
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He has to deal with Russian mafia, and surprisingly, they don't talk with the same exaggerated accent. Another common media stereotype is that all Slavs by default are Russian. In "Borat" movie even non-Slav Kazakh Borat was called Russian by some Americans. The accent itself is always (not) parodied wrong. What struck me in Fallout 4 was Bobrov brothers speaking with horrible fake accent. For me Bobrov brothers are local. There is just no reason why they would cross the ocean to come to the crapsack place of post-apocalyptic Boston. That means that no matter what name and culture they keep - their American must be perfect. I don't see it as a stab at Russians though. Rather like a mistake or a counter-logical comedy element. And here's the real Russian accent 
Bellic brothers are Serbian. I thought they were Polish, and now I don't know why
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Be careful with this hot potato?
hi hi
It's one of the big problems with the moral philosophy where people try to categorize individuals into black and white, good person/bad person, good karma/bad karma categories. Rather than acknowledging that every human being is saddled with a host of cognitive biases that tend to lead to making mistakes, and actively working to mitigate those biases; they tend to go into denial about even the possibility that they might be capable of doing something that would place them into the dreaded "bad person" category.
I like how people try to dictate what a pony's humanized version's race would be, when we could simply just accept what we have from equestria girls.
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Well, Tenpenny for some reason come to Capital Wasteland from England. Then why Bobrov brothers can't come from Russia, Belarus or Ukraine?
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That wasn't explained either. Surely he could do business in less hazardous environment.
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My dear Kittyfluff... we live in a marvelous time, you and I and everyone here. An age unheard of before, where one may speak, and act, and object as one sees fit, an age where we, even the poorest amongst us, can enjoy luxuries not even dreamt of by the wealthiest of kings, shieks, emperors, or even the Pope himself. An age where a man lands a probe on a comet
And then is nearly destroyed because some dumb twats get their collective panties in a bunch over his shirt.
We live in an age of Anita sarkeesian going to the UN and talking about censoring the internet
We live in an age of Mary Daly and vaginal yeast bread, an age of mental gymnastics and oppression olympics https://www.rt.com/uk/337061-gay-males-lbgt-dominate/
A day where what Kkat has written here can be misconstrued and twisted and from there her life destroyed and exposed over the web because some asstard deemed her completely innocuous and sole opinion as a direct affront to their existence
Their days are quickly closing, and common sense shall soon reign again
But in the interim... lives can still be ruined, and this a hot potato till then sadly
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I'll assume you're not trolling. You propose to mind our own business and stay away from the topics that may steer SJW. If we do that - it will mean their victory, not the common sense. And I believe Kkat sent a very right message to both extreme sides.
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Not at all, my dear fellow. But I think we should realize that these charlatans, hucksters, and baiters will stoop to any level, use any excuse at their disposal and failing that make one up to do as much damage to anyone they deem a threat, and people should be prepared for that, and arm themselves with the truth, step boldly, and speak without fear.
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I have a feeling I am going to regret taking the bait, but ok. Let's arm ourselves with the truth.
• Assertion: Everything is marvelous for everyone.
• Reality: Although Women make up 48% of the workforce, and 49% of the college educated workforce, they make up only 24% of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) related workforce. And even when they do, they make on average 14% less money than male counterparts. and their work is less likely to be cited. and have historically been rated lower by review boards that are dominated by men 55 to 5. Furthermore, women who are successful in jobs that are stereotypically male jobs, like science careers, are in general, penalized by their peers for it.
• Assertion: Matt Taylor was nearly destroyed for wearing a sexist shirt.
• Reality: Matt Taylor apologized, stating that it was a mistake. Continues to be employed in his field, And rather than suffering any monetary penalty, was actually gifted $23,000 by private donors, which he kindly donated to charity.