Starlight vs Sunset - An Analysis of Redemption

Since even now people (judging from Derpibooru) seem to be upset over this and arguing back and forth, I will offer my two cents.

Flame war!

So, opinion 1, because I've occasionally seen it said - Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer are not Mary Sues. The term Mary Sue tends to be used as a slur these days to refer to any character that people don't like. A Mary Sue is a character that is overly idealized and perfect, and tends to have the characters and story center on how awesome they are. As TV Tropes goes into detail, there are variants of this concept, like the God-Mode Sue who is a total badass that can do anything, the Jerk Sue who is a dick to everyone yet is inexplicably liked by the cast anyway, and the Copycat Sue, who is a Mary Sue where their backstory and abilities and personalities are copied from another canon character.

Starlight and Sunset are not overly idealized characters. They are not beloved by the casts, the plots do not focus on them to the detriment of other characters, they are they are not shallowly characterized. The Mary Sue is a perfect character in-story. Starlight and Sunset are not. Sunset is about as close as you can get to perfection, but that's just a statement of fact. The only thing you can really say about either of them that may qualify them as a Mary Sue is that Sunset was Celestia's student that was never mentioned before, and Starlight's power levels equal to an alicorn are implausible. But that's about it, and on their own that isn't enough either way. So with that out of the way, let's talk about the two of them joining the Mane Six.

Another statement of fact - Sunset Shimmer is a better developed character than Starlight Glimmer. Starlight, so far, has only had a musical montage and a two-part episode to reform and grow on us as a character. But she's already being treated like part of the main cast. This isn't even a matter of if you wanted there to be a seventh mane pony or not - it's a matter of making us care about who the pick is. And the writers, so far, have failed to do that. We have not seen Starlight enough nor has she done enough to want us to be invested in her redemption arc. She hasn't even really had a redemption arc - the Crystalling focused on her reconciliation with Sunburst, not on her trying to make amends for her misdeeds.

Sunset Shimmer, however, we did. Yes, folks were calling for her to be a mane cast member after Rainbow Rocks, but that's the key word - after. We spent all of Rainbow Rocks seeing Sunset's redemption arc as a secondary plotline, and it was much stronger. We saw her struggle to regain her self-esteem and respect after the first film, learning her place in the group dynamic, getting over her fears, and eventually standing tall with her friends to face down a villain. Sunset spent the entire film in the background, unsure if she had a right to get involved and staying quiet, but when her friends needed her she came through for them. That is a character arc, that is seeking and finding redemption, that is proving you have reformed and are worthy to stand alongside the heroes.

Sunset Shimmer's redemption arc worked because we saw it. We did not see Starlight Glimmer's redemption arc. She was relegated to a musical montage of her spending time with the group over the course of a single song. Say what you will about if you think Discord's and Diamond Tiara's redemptions worked or not, but at least those happened over the course of a whole episode each, and were the focus of those episodes. Starlight Glimmer was given no such time, and that's why her redemption is so much weaker. And because it is so much weaker, she seems unworthy to join the heroes. What has she done to earn that right? Why should we care? The writers did a good job getting us invested in Starlight as a villain, but forgot to get us invested in her as a hero, and that is a very different ball game.

That said, Starlight is not beyond achieving these things now. We have a whole season ahead of us for episodes to focus on her, explore her character, and develop her. For all we know the finale will end with Chrysalis taking over the Crystal Empire and Starlight engages her in a showdown to save Flurry Heart and resists the temptation to join with Chrysalis because she stands by her new friends. The point is, we haven't seen enough of Starlight to care about her, but we can now, and if the writers play their cards right through this season, it will.

However, there is the flip side of the coin, and this is where my personal opinion may clash with yours. I think Sunset has earned her redemption better than Starlight and deserves to join the Mane Six... but given the choice, I don't want her to. This isn't about keeping Equestria Girls a self-contained storyline. Sunset has completed her character arc across three films (unless they think of some really cool stuff for the fourth). Her story is over, her development is done. Starlight's story is still going. She can still grow, evolve, and learn, to become an interesting character. From a writer's perspective, Starlight is a more appealing character, because by this point more can be done with her.

I don't dislike Starlight, but I don't really care for her, either. But the writers have all of Season 6 to win me and the fanbase over. Best Human is best human and more worthy of Starlight's position as it stands, but let's give the new girl a chance to prove herself before we throw her away.

Starsunlight?

Comments

[Majin Syeekoh]

I see where you're coming from with this.

When I watched the first EqG and Sunset was immediately reformed, I took it for granted because she was blasted with the Magic Rainbow Laser. We don't know how that thing works, so yeah, I could buy that it could blast someone into seeing the error of their ways.

The thing about Starlight's redemption, though, is that she wasn't blasted by Magic Rainbow Lasers—it started when she was staring Twilight down and threatening to tear reality asunder.

She had told Twilight how she had become the way she was, and judging by the effect that sort of thing had on Moondancer earlier in the season, it seems to be a legitimate thing that happens to ponies in extreme circumstances. She then asked Twilight why her friends were so important.

Twilight explainedthat they were the main charactersthat it wasn't just her friendships that were important, but that every friendship in Equestria was important. That's why they were at this timeline tearing juncture in the first place. Because Starlight had lost Sunburst.

Then Twilight offered to be her friend. And Starlight stood down of her own free will, presumably because that was what was bothering her in the first place. I mean, she removed the cutie marks of an entire hamlet just to have some friends. I would assume friendship was a thing Starlight valued, despite her warped methods of achieving it. That was indeed why Starlight was stopping the Rainboom—because Twilight took away her friends.

And Twilight diffused that by recognizing that this wasn't a stop the monster problem, but a friendship problem, that this pony wasn't actually evil. Just in pain.

All she wanted was a friend, and Twilight was giving her that of her own free will.

That moment of crisis when Starlight Glimmer handed(hooved?)Twilight Starswirl's spell was when she reformed. "Reformed" in this case means realizing that she wasn't going to get what she actually wanted by doing what she was doing.

And admitting you were wrong takes an incredible amount of strength.

[nobody dreamer]

Short answer- Sunset is best human/pony.

Long answer- I liked Starlight as a villain much more. She was a petty, hypocritical and somewhat mean pony, who had set up her own cult because she fell out of contact with her first friend. And was willing to break time to get revenge and ruin Twilight's life. Her backstory is pretty weak too- if it had been something like Apple Bloom pre-CMC (snapped because of bullying), that's one thing, but the Sunburst thing... yeah, pretty pathetic. Not to mention having the raw power to force the world to work the way she thinks it should.

With Sunset, as Celestia's former student, that implies a lot of parallels and contrasts with Twilight- she was even more unfriendly than Twilight was, more arrogant and bad attitude, but that also implies a strained relationship with Celestia. Perhaps even a parallel with Luna, in terms of (unintentionally) driving somepony away. Part of what made Rainbow Rocks so awesome was seeing Sunset recover- not just to get the school to stop hating her, but also regain her confidence. She was always skilled, but she was still not quite a part of the Humane Five, and was holding back out of shame. That storyline was really satisfying, seeing her earn redemption.

Starlight saw the error of her ways, said sorry and got a song montage with all the Mane Six, basically promoting her to main character in... 10 minutes? Despite how nasty she was in the season five opener. Even in the Crystalling, no hard feelings at all, she's the only one still embarrassed/ashamed about it.

I'd like to see Sunset in pony form in the main show, but she already has her place as lead in the EQ sub-franchise (however long it lasts, probably one more movie). Actually, kind of wish Sci-Twi had stayed in Crystal Prep (as one alternate ending showed), but that's another discussion. I don't hate current Starlight, just still ambivalent about her kind of being seventh main pony. She was fine in season 6, just not entirely happy at how fast things moved, but oh well, future episodes should still be good. As long as she doesn't ascend to alicorn in a season or so... that's probably too ridiculous, I hope?

[Evowizard25]

I have to disagree. I actually found Starlight to be incredibly fascinating and actively got me to care and want to see more of her reformation. {Redemption is a moment of, reformation is after.} I'd even go as far as to say Starlight's had the best on point redemption thus far. I go more on about it in my blogs:

Why I Love Starlight Glimmer
Villain Redemption
The only ammendmant I'd make is that Starlight's my favorie character thus far in the show. {Or tied with Sunset. Hard to tell.}

As for Discord's
Discord

ANd lastly, I do believe Sunset becoming a main six is a bad idea.
Sunset

Don't mean to start an argument though. I also apologize if some of those blogs have some anger. Let's just say... I got a lot of hell for actually liking Starlight, felt kind of boxed in by a fandom I had before found more welcoming, and let my emotions, you know, fly.

[Evowizard25]

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Well said.

[superfun]

Honestly, I disagree with the idea that Sunset should be in Starlight's position.
Mainly because:
1. Sunset's a movie character, so she'll stay in the movies.
2. She's already found her place as the leader of the humane 6.

And I've just always preferred Starlight over Sunset.
Mainly because from the beginning, I found Starlight to be a more interesting overall character, not just a more interesting villain.