Jun
13th
2015
Griffon chicks · 10:07am Jun 13th, 2015
I must admit that I am in two minds about this, but what happens when a griffon has a chick? Is it a live birth, or do they lay an egg? While they are predominantly avian in many aspects, all their reproductive organs are in the mammalian part of their anatomy. For that reason, I favor live birth. However, I'd like to hear your opinions on this. It's not critical to my story, but I'd like to be consistent for the right reasons.
At first I thought: egg.
But you're right about the position of the reproductive organs. Also, it would make them more compatible with ponies, which I assume is what you want. The only problem I see is the passing of the infant's beak through the mother's birth canal. But then again, nature (in the real world) has already solved that problem for things like claws.
Furthermore, the lower cat-half of the griffon would also be able to have teats for the infant to suckle on. I don't know how that could be done with a beak, though (aauuuuch!). Maybe the beak is very soft in the beginning?
3144276 I think the beak would be soft and rubbery until the chick is old enough to eat solid food.
Or, should you decide to go the other way for some reason...
http://www.zmescience.com/medicine/genetic/fancy-a-cup-of-pigeon-milk/
Maybe the griff is like platypus. Monotreme. Could be a good explanation for them
why not both?
50%50 chance?
if its safe enough, eggs, if its less safe, live birth?
I would probably go for eggs. It's more consistent for the overall avian lifestyle, regardless of anatomy. It's not a matter of whatever halves they have that reflect the animal and its organs, rather the organs of the creature itself.
I think Venlin has an interesting idea, by comparing them to platypus'. Or maybe Griffons are like sharks, where the eggs hatch inside the mother, and then it is like a pseudo-live birth. If not that, though, they are probably mammalian-like and have live births, due to their feline back half. Nursing wouldn't be too bad, as their beaks probably don't get too hard until older. Or maybe they are able to consume solid and semi-solid food earlier than other creatures, as not all mammals require months of breastfeeding like humans. Also, if not mammalian, how else would Hippogriffs exist, unless they can be made with only male Griffons and Mares.
3144328
So it's something influenced by external factors? Environmental, perhaps mental triggers determine?
"ABOOGAWOOGA!"
"Dammit, Gertrude, now I'm gonna be holding on to the brat for another month!"
"xD"
"I hate giving live births!"
Personally, I always assumed they gave birth to live young for the same reason you did ... and might actually be prone to multiple births (to a much greater extent than humans or Ponies), since litters of up to four aren't uncommon among "our" Big Cats.
If it's live birth, all their reproductive parts are mammalian and a hind end of a lion. Wouldn't they be called cubs?
I'd say live birth. That part of the body is mammilian.
I think either work. Through in mythology they lay eggs
Another thought...I suppose this means new chapters are on their way?
I heard you complained about people saying bad things about your stories. Don't listen to them (unless they actually have valid points you can use of course) - a lot of us want more!
Consider this. In the story, hippogriffs are mentioned. The obvious implication is that a hen and a stallion would produce one, but if griffins lay eggs, would this work between a male griffin and a mare?
Also, random tangent, if griffins lay eggs, do they ever lay any unfertalized eggs, like chickens? Would be a good trade commodity. The egg would never develop or hatch. Controversial, maybe, but not morally repugnant.
I would have to go with live birth.
Okay.
So we've got the 'live' option which makes sense from a purely logical standpoint.
And the 'egg' option from the traditional/mythology side.
So how about gryph chicks are born live, but still inside their amniotic sac?
This would keep the talons and beak from being an issue (even if both would still be soft and mostly harmless), but also keep the wings tucked out of the way during birth.
Then you have the whole rite-of-passage thing of the chick fighting its way into the world (which fits with the martial tradition warriors from birth thing that sits with gryphs so nicely).
At this point you look back and realise that you're making stuff up about stuff that's been made up.
I prefer live birth, it makes the situation far more emotional to me.
3145239
Interesting way to go with the Amniotic sac idea.
And heh, yeah, this is making stuff up on stuff that's made up, but isn't that what people here to all the time?
It seems the live or 'hybrid' choice appears most here.
3145239 Ooh! Nice idea! I might have to seriously consider that.
I've written some on Griffon society and such, (the sociopolitcal aspects of which have now been invalidated by Griffonstone, but eh) and I favor eggs. I even noted in a story the oddity of a griffon's back end being mammalian but having a cloaca instead of lionine parts. In my version, griffon hens lay a clutch for 4-7 eggs every 10 years or so. They'll do this two or three times in their life. They lay so many eggs because they live such dangerous lives. With a high infant/child mortality rate, a high birth rate is how the species keeps its population up. I've also toyed with the idea of males taking a couple weeks longer to hatch than females, resulting in a matriarchal society because of females being first hatched, but I'm not sure if that's dumb.
3145239
I would vote for this too for this story, because it nicely balances with changelings and ponies, causing the three main species of the story to have three different methods for reproduction.
Traditionally I go for eggs, complete with unfertilized duds.
Hmm. I suppose griffons having eggs would sort of make since well, they aren't ponies, but then I was thinking there is that type of griffon that hasn't been seen in the show yet that's more lion/feline than avian, and you usually see on Heralds from Europe and what not. The big body of a cat-type with bird head and wings. What if that was a subspecies of griffon, and IT had live births (being more mammal than avian) than the griffons usually seen in the show.
So... yeah, I guess my answer is... split the difference and do both. Because... eggies are cool and kittens are cool, and so yeah.
And... I'd assume in the case of hippogryph-based theory, it would depend on the mother; egg or live birth, depending on if standard griffon or the sub-species griffon and/or pony.
But don't hold me to these ideas. I'm just rambling about thoughts that are coming to me late at night, so I probably should go to sleep. Hopefully these ideas help though.
I would go with laying eggs.
There is a thought that Pegasus carry an egg for half the pregnancy, then lay it and sit it for the rest.
I would have to vote live birth. Birds lay eggs since to lighten the burden of flying. Since the flying sentient species use magic to enable them to fly, the weight issue is not there. We have seen pegasi carry other ponies to safety so carrying a foal or a gryphon carrying a chick would be not a problem. Plus the back end there is mammalian supposedly with teats which is another point in favor of live births.
Also I have seen youtube videos of birds nursing from dogs. It stands to reason that a beak would not be a insurmountable problem.
I'm going to agree with Mare Serenitis's concept as well. As their forequarters are avian (specifically raptorial) in design, and their hindquarters are also those of a carnivore, they'll be born with rather lethally sharp beaks (think how sharp a kitten or puppy's milk teeth are!) which would be a health hazard and a half to the mother. A lot of bird chicks are born with an egg tooth to help them in cracking their shells, but their beaks are at no stage particularly soft or mobile; with nowhere near enough mobility to suckle a teat.
A raptorial bird feeds their chicks flesh from the outset, first by regurgitation and later by the mother or father bringing whole prey to the nest (So the chicks learn what food looks like) and ripping off strips of flesh for them.
I would think, if you wish for them to start out life drinking milk, it would require a mare (or griffon hen) to express their milk and feed it to them with a very sturdy apparatus (think a sippy cup sort of thing rather than a nipple). And even in the case of a hippogriff, the beak is not meant for eating grains or grasses, so if they are omnivorous, they'd still lean heavily toward the carnivore.
I think the amniotic sac idea is very valid, especially if it is a thick sac the chick must fight its way out of.
Wow, I have put way too much thought into this.
I prefer the idea of live birth for them, as I see them slightly more mammalian then avian in general biology.
I am with Seether. Either way works. Your choice, Goldfur.
I thin k Griffons lay eggs for many reasons, first off, yes their back half is that of a mammal, but there are mammals today that lay eggs so why not griffons?
eggs
Go with what you think would make for a better story. But for what I've read, it seems that a gryphon egg is widely excepted cannon.
Eggs, for it is tradition. Also, many of the skilled writers of FiM stories that feature griffins have stated that they are egg-laying monotremes. So they both lay eggs and only have a single hole.
3391724 With all due respect to the other great writers, their ideas are no more canon than mine. However, I did end up using a leathery egg sac when Lucida was born.
While it's all your choice, in the RPG that I play (D&D 3.5 edition) Griffons hatch from eggs, so there's a decent reference point