Serious Discussion · 3:02pm Feb 10th, 2015
Okay, so... I'm probably going to catch a little flak for this, as not all of you following agree with me.
The question I have is, "Why do people try to shut Christians up when they share their faith?"
I mean, I know the answer, "Because people hate God." But, I'm curious about other's thoughts.
Our first amendment right in America protects both parts of evangelical preaching. 1. Freedom of Speech 2. and religion, as when we share our faith we are practicing it as it is written here:
(Matthew 28:18-20) "18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
It's amazing how this passage is ignored when others approach a Christian talking about what he believes... Case in point, right here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C_6HfEoORuM]
Now, I'm glad this woman said what she did, she calls out the passive Christians who aren't doing anything. But I think that she misread Todd's actions, and also misunderstands that Jesus did tell people that they were wrong. But she was trying to tell him not to share his faith in her actions.
And I agree with him, "I am the worst person here." I honestly believe in his approach, telling others I'm a bad person and despite that, God rescued me. Because that's the Gospel, and I want others to experience that! Is that so wrong to desire?
This isn't a rant, it's a question: Why do non-Christians feel the need to try and shut us up? So, before answering one way or another, please, stop and think, be a respectful adult like your parents taught you, and don't rip my head off. That's just rude.
Well, I don't think it is fair at all to say "because people hate God" is the reason why. People can love their God and still not want to hear about your version of your God.
I think it is much more fair to say that "people hate bigots" and the people that shutdown Christians in the manner you seem to be talking about have had very real and serious negative experiences with Christianity. When you have people claiming to be Christians and they are telling you that you are going to be tortured for eternity because you don't meet their narrow definition of a true Christian then you kinda don't like those people.
I don't know where you're from so I don't know your experience. For me, I constantly have to listen to my "Christian" relatives and workers preach about how murdering "them Islams" is "what Jesus wants" and how "them gays" are "filthy devil worshipers". Not to mention how they love interrupting movies about WWII with moving concentration camp scenes by saying "This is why Jesus wants us to torture them terrorists." And if they aren't saying that shit then they're condemning poor people for being poor and hiding behind their Rotary or Lions or whatever club membership as their "Christian charity".
So for me, I shut Christians down because I'm sick and tired of hearing about how their prophet wants them to murder everyone that isn't like them.
I no longer identify as Christian, I was raised Presbyterian but I do NOT believe in predestination. Because if everything is already determined then what is the point of trying? We should always strive to leave the world a better place than we found it and predestination makes that pointless. I do really like the new pope though, he seems to actually care about saving peoples souls and not being a useless rich white dude. But I'm not Catholic and don't really know anything about Catholicism so *shrug*
I live by the creed "Don't be a dick. Leave the world better than you found it." and it seems to be working for me.
Because christians can be just as rude and pushy as atheists. Certain Christians have that "I'm right, you're wrong mentality." and won't listen to a word of anyone who doesn't share their faith. How can you expect people to keep an open mind about religion when most christinas don't keep an open mind themselves?
2785040
Hey, thanks for your feedback.
Before I respond to a few things in your comment, I'd like to mention my background. I've been raised in the church, wasn't always a Christian, and in my early teens up until I was 15-16 I considered myself a closeted bisexual. I wasn't comfortable in my own skin, and I honestly think a lot of that came from being molested at the age of four. (There was a teenager in our church that was... Quite perverted, and my parents didn't really know.)
So, understand firstly that I have been through a lot in my short time here on earth. (I'm 19 next month.) I've been on both sides of the conservative/liberal fence, and I'd say I'm probably standing on the conservative side with my arm leaning on the fence for the sake of understanding and avoiding bigotry. If we're being honest here, bigotry would be baseless hate without reason, and even with a reason that would be wrong. The Christian faith is concerned with telling the truth in love, which means because the Bible says we're broken and can't fix ourselves, and that we all fall short of God's standard of perfection, (Romans 3:23) is taking this information to others without being personally offensive. I think that often tends to be a thing, people hearing the message and thinking the person speaking it is hostile, when it's really God speaking to them and they are warring against Him. Something else the Bible tells us, is that if we're not for God, we're against Him. The world often acts consistently with this, and thats where I was pulling the "People hate God" thing from. We shake our fist at Him and say, "No. My way."
I'm taking some time to respond to a few statements according to what I believe, and understand I'm not a person that says "If that's what you believe, then that's what truth is for you." Understanding that I'm not an advocate of the "truth is relative" movement, it should help you to understand how I view things. The school of philosophy that I and many Christians ascribe to is called "Pre-modernism", where God decides truth. It's a reality of absolute rights and absolute wrongs. No gray areas.
A couple of responses to this. You don't think that's fair. By what standard are you determining right from wrong? By what are you determining what is just? That's a valid question.
According to the Bible, (because that's where I'm going to be pulling all my beliefs about God.) there is only one God, and anything else is a false idol. The very first of the Ten Commandments establish this, and even before that God asserts the absoluteness of His authority. (The plagues of Egypt were each intended to knock down the gods the Egyptians worshipped.) So, they'd be loving their version of God, but it would be false. To say "my version" would be equating it to a false god.
"...very real and serious negative experiences..." Yes, I would agree. I've been there, and it still happens with me now that I am a Christian. Before, I was ridiculed and ostracized by the youth group we were involved in when I was 14, and it pushed me away from the church.
Recently,I had an elder in our church try to tell me I was idolizing MLP. Him and I... Are trying to mend our friendship. I respected him up until that point, because I thought he understood the fandom's place in my life and that it's the people I care about more than the characters. That, and he didn't remove the plank from his own eye in judging. Note that it wasn't that he judged, it's that he himself actively watches and treats sports teams the way I treat MLP.
So, the negative experiences don't really ever go away, unfortunately. What matters is how we handle them during and after.
Now, as for the "tortured for all eternity" bit, which in the Bible we call Hell... It wasn't made for people, God created that for the fallen angels, specifically Satan. Now, we all know God is loving and merciful, but there will be people who reject God's mercy and God is also a just God, meaning that he must punish wrongdoing. Unfortunately, that means He has to separate those who choose to be apart from Him. In other words, because God is a loving Father, He's not going to force Heaven on those that don't want it. Heaven would not be Heaven for that person, it would be Hell.
To answer the "Narrow definition of a true Christian..." well, Jesus made it narrow. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me."
He also said, "Narrow is the way that leads to life, and only a few find it." Not to mention, this relates to the previous as Jesus also preached Hell and repentance, the very first words of His ministry were, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near."
Wow. I uhh, would seriously doubt the genuineness of their faith if that's the case. There's such a thing as false converts, I was from 4 years old till 12.
And for your objections on predestination, I actually was listening to Todd addressing this. "God created you, and you have free will." and he details how and why. Here ya go. Skip to 13:00 and he has a guy ask him about God's sovereignty. (Forgot the link!)
2785125
That's very true.
The problem is, we approach our world with a black-and-white understanding that God determines truth, and it's a very right-and-wrong approach. People don't like that.
Notice how I'm open to responding to objections? That's an example of open-mindedness. My faith cannot and will not be reconciled with other's beliefs, and that's not my choice. I can't control that. So, the next best thing is to explain to others how we view ourselves, others, and God.
Easy understanding of the Christian faith through these two songs. :D I'm not a huge fan of rap, but I like these two.
2785138
I'm sorry you've had such an awful thing happen. I hope you have the support you need to get through such a thing.
I don't have time to reply thoroughly to everything you've mentioned. Sorry in advance about that.
I don't believe that if there is one true god then it must be the Christian God, so we aren't going to agree about that part.
You say this:
Which is not what I mean by narrow definition of Christian. I mean, what you're saying looks like a solid definition of a Christian to me, no argument here on that. What I mean by narrow definition of Christian is when people claiming Christianity as their faith and then exclude anyone else claiming to be Christian because they don't meet whatever definition of Christian their pastor declared is The One True Christian Faith. The Christians I know that proselytize believe Jesus was a white man and they don't let minorities into their churches. If some visiting non-white guests come to church they are sure to save the "scandalous" story for the next time I see them and tell me all about how their church was dirtied up by <insert your ethnic slur of choice>. Not to mention that my parent's church moved from their historic 1890s, hand done stained glass in all the windows of all the buildings church to a new building because they started getting too many latino members.
From what you've said, you read your holy book and think deeply about it's teachings. I have a lot of respect for that. I think that is wonderful that you have such faith and that you have the capacity to open a discussion about it. Pretty much all of the Christians I've met IRL shut down discussion immediately and cast out anyone that asks actual deep and meaningful questions about the Bible. The mandatory "Bible Study" classes I had to take when I was a kid were a joke. You read a passage and listened to the elder's opinions on the passage and nodded your head in agreement or were immediately corrected if you had questions that weren't just a rehashing of the elder's views. If you had too many questions that the elder didn't like, then you basically were shunned until you became their parrot or left the church.
2785242
I read your entire comment, but forgive me if my response seems a little inadequate. This in particular jumped out at me, and I also respond to the meaninglessness below.
Yeah, we start at the Bible because that's our very foundation. And the Bible meets reality because the people in it had real experiences, with real people, and a real God. Their experiences in the past teach us how to handle today. We as Christians are asserting this by including it into our discussion, showing that what has been written is still relevant to today.
The Bible matches the Bible because it's the word of God Himself, 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is God-breathed, (literally where we get the word "inspired" from) and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness." So, Scripture claims to be the word of God, and even Jesus affirmed it's authority by quoting the Old Testament to the teachers of the law in his day. If he saw fit to do so as God incarnate, and I am to follow His example, then why shouldn't I do the same? It can't be mere coincidence that 66 books written by several different authors all point to the person and work of Jesus, even those of the B.C. Old Testament.
And strangely enough, God agrees with you on the "Meaninglessness of Life" thing.
Ecclesiastes 1 asserts something we ALL can agree with. The difference is, God goes one step further and says, "Apart from Me."
Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.
2785286
You. I like you. Have a cookie.
Anyways, while you munch on that cookie:
Why? What defeats Him as God of all?
Wow. Those people are full of it. And by it, I mean racism. Fun fact, didja know racism is based in evolution? Kinda shows how its undermined the church. (And when I say church I mean the body of believers, not the buildings.)
Not only that, to make you nod in agreement or else is nothing short of indoctrination, and that's flat out wrong. We're to point children to the cross, not force them to it.
I'm sorry that they put you through that. Wanna come to church with me?
To be honest, I think that this goes along with evolution. People try to say that they are an animal, and don't owe God anything, just so that they can get away from the faith! I for one am not a big fan of people going up on a stage and saying things like, "I am for everyone! (Except believers) And together, we can make the world a better place!" Big, fat deal! If you really don't like what I believe in, tough luck for you! This is what I believe and no-one can tell me otherwise. Here we have people saying, stuff like, "Oh, I think that was just luck!" or, "It was only fate that you met! not that God fellow!" It takes people like these to make me upset, I thought that this was the land of the free! "Well if you don't like it, or if you don't believe in this "stuff," I've got a news flash for you, Christianity happens to be the heritage of this country whether you like it or not! If you want to tell me not to talk about it, news flash, PUT A HELMET ON! It's my country too!" __ Brad Stine
Okay this is my experience. Most people feel about open air preachers like they do used car salesman. Often times they refuse to take no or no thank you as an answer. Something I have encountered very often. It would greatly improve things if street preachers learned to leave people alone when they say no thanks.