Reader Poll for "If you ain't..." · 2:33am Nov 2nd, 2014
Hello.
Okay; for those who remember, I've run a poll before for this specific story in the past. Said poll was concerning the removal of the comedy tag, which ultimately won. This turned out to be the right thing to do; I think things would have turned out HORRIBLY if this story still had that tag when Chapter 14 came out.
Concerning chapter 14... I'm not going to even talk about it anymore. I received a lot of hate, yes; I received a lot of criticism too. I appreciated the latter way more then the former.
... I also received TONS of love as well from all of you, to which I am eternally grateful. I'm continuing this fic for all of you wonderful people, and I'm going to continue having fun while doing it 
So, anyways, here's the poll this time. I've said time and time again that I am NOT adding the dark tag...
... And I'm still not. But it's increasingly becoming apparent that this fic is a bit too much for some people. The comedic beginning, leading to the heavy center, and the ultimately uplifting ending was all intentional, but I don't want to COMPLETLY mislead people. So... here's the question for you all.
Should this fic be bumped up from Teen to Mature? It's obviously become a very mature fic, but I want your opinions.
You have at least a week; before chapter 15 and 16 come out. Please share your opinions below! 
Have a lovely rest of your weekends, dears.
-Derply.
EDIT: Closing this one early; Teen it shall remain. The first comment from me in the section below contains a new mini-poll, if you're still interested. "Should I add a controversial material warning in the description?" More details below.
I don't think so: I don't remember any mature subject matter, just dramatic weight that I think teens should be able to handle.
Nonsense, it's fun for all the family! Leave it as it is, they don't change Top Gear just because it upsets people do they? Neither should you.
no, it's not in a mature age bracket. And frankly there's nothing offensive or even really questionable to a person starting the story now and reading through. But I started reading based on the early comedy tag and favorited it based on seeing more of that. I have seen numerous authors do that sort of thing and it comes across as bait and switch to me. This is not what you advertised with that early comedic beginning
If this sort of thing was always the plan, the shift in tone, I wish you hadn't posted this thing until it was complete.
Definitely not. The mature tag is reserved for explicit sex or gore which would make it inappropriate for a younger audience just like an R rating on a movie. You can cover very emotionally mature topics without needing anything even remotely coming close to a mature tag (amusingly, the show is actually an excellent example of this in a lot of ways), and conversely there are plenty of fics that require the mature tag while having no exploration of anything worthwhile at all (that is basically the definition of clop). Given that definition of the mature tag, there is absolutely no reason to use it unless you plan to brutally tear a pony apart in excessive gory detail or have a very detailed sex scene (or both, Twilight's mental state could definitely allow for that kind of thing right now if you really wanted to totally derail the story
).
Not unless you're adding sex or dismemberment...
No. There is no sex or gore. So no
I for a teen tag. I honestly don't see any sex or gore. I do think maybe you should write a warning in the little summary of the story, saying this story will be handling lots of criticism and is controversial. Maybe that would satisfy the difficult themes in this story.
Depends. So far, you've dodged the bullet. Though things could have taken a turn for the deadly if Twilight wasn't stopped, or if AppleJack didn't stop at choking her into unconsciousness.
So the question now remains, are we out of the "worst" physical violence yet? (I understand we might not be done the emotional rollercoaster for a while longer)
Because if it got anymore physical, I could see it being more mature. otherwise it's fine as Teen where it is now.
Teen here. We can handle it. If we can read LotR and Harry Potter, if we can read To Kill a Mockingbird in school, then we can handle a few complicated themes. It's fine, unless (as most of the thread has said) you plan on anything justifying the Sex or Gore tags.
I'm...not sure. There's different levels of maturity and we often use some levels over others. In the sense that teens shouldn't read them like the site uses? Probably not. But it's obviously not just 'teen' anymore...if it ever was. I'm personally of the mind that it should have been E for Everyone like most Disney movies. But I haven't read the latest chapter so I can't say.
No excessive swearing, no gore, no sex....... Teen it should remain.
2569149
One more buck to the head will be had. Outside of that nothing else at all. Only hugs and nuzzlings and feels... and Applejack. Celestia... well wait and see, please.
2569005
2569015
2569017
2569038
2569039
2569065
2569191
I don't think I need to hold this poll open any longer; Teen it is. Thank you all for setting me straight... although an idea was brought forth by 2569092.
New Poll: Should there be a warning in the description about how the story will be dealing with somewhat controversial subject matters? I don't want to Bait and Switch people; I want to make sure everyone knows what they're getting into when they start this thing, even with the intentionally silly beginning.
I'm sorry for constantly bothering everyone about this lately, but since we're getting so close to the ending now, it's kinda necessary. I don't want anymore angry comments from readers about how they had to wade through a story only to be ultimately disappointed. "Fuck this story and fuck you," was the comment I had to delete yesterday. I don't want to have to do that again; silence someone for being disappointed... Please
2569261 I think you should follow the suggestion I suggested earlier. Sorry about someone leaving that comment. I do want to say this though. You can never leave everyone happy. So you have a few people who don't like your story. Don't worry about it. Just continue. I think you are doing a great job.
2569261 I don't know, maybe. The first few times, I took it for humor, since it seemed clear that we weren't meant to agree with Big Macintosh. Then again, people with his views might get huffy (I saw it happen in Dash's chapter), so, might be best err on the side of caution.
2569261
You can't please everyone. It's not false advertising at all. If people get to a part they don't like then they stop reading it and that's it. I mean if you want to be a disclaimer then that is up to you. I don't see it necessary, myself.
2569261 I would say no. I think the big reason people were bothered is that they came expecting a laugh because of the comedy tag and were disappointed when things took a much more serious turn which is not an unreasonable position. With that gone there should be no expectation of the story being funny the whole way through. Furthermore, the description and title both make it abundantly clear that Big Mac is going to be saying some things that will hurt others so I think that should be warning enough of what is coming.
That said, if it is really bothering you that much you can delete the bit about the comedy tag in the description to further reduce expectations of humor going in.
Also, remember what I said earlier about people not being able to accept clearly demonstrated character flaws. I have run into people around here that will make the most ridiculous claims about characters which are very clearly contradicted by the show on many occasions. You ran into that with people trying to claim Twilight does not suffer breakdowns under stress despite Lesson Zero and many other freakouts throughout the series very clearly demonstrating her poor stress management skills, so you really need to keep their stupidity in mind when reading those kinds of comments. The only way you are going to appease them is if you totally destroy the characterization and story as a whole so you really have to sit back, look at their comment objectively, see that they are a moron, and ignore them.
Nah, you don't need a disclaimer, it's rated teen with slice of life, you are still within those boundaries.
I'm not sure why people disliked it. I mean, sure it seemed a bit harsh, but that's the point of the story isn't it? That Big Mac is unable to stop himself from saying anything, good or bad? And I'm a TwiMac fan, so if it doesn't bug me, not sure why it would anyone else (since people seem to put a lot of stock in their OTPs).
2569329
2569750
actually based on the title, description and the first confession to Granny Smith I was expecting a story that would mostly be everyone overreacting to minor confessions. Big Mac embarrassed to admit things most would have no problem with or things everyone knows, for example telling the Flower mares they panic to easily and it drives everyone crazy setting them up to go nuts over that, and AJ panicking. Even the early confessions weren't that bad, to me, until he got to Cheerilee, except for himself
2569969 The title is very clearly a shortening of the phrase "If you aint got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". This makes it very clear that in this story, the reason Big Mac is so quiet is that he wants to say all sorts of mean things to ponies but knows better so he keeps his mouth shut. Thus when the poison joke takes away that barrier, he is going to say all sorts of nasty things to everyone around them which is exactly what happened in the story. Yes that can be funny like with the flower trio, but it is far more likely to be brutal and nasty like what happened with Twilight. Hell, I distinctly remember one pony deliberately pointing AJ his way to get revenge on her because he or she knew that Big Mac would say a lot of hurtful things as he vented every little annoyance and pet peeve that had built up over his entire life.
2569994
yes obviously. But given the beginning confessions I thought it was a tongue in cheek title since the story didn't seem to be lining up with the phrase.
I was basically expecting a Lesson Zero for AJ and Mac. A total breakdown over something that was no big deal.
2569969
There's your problem; you decided what you wanted the story to be and disregarded what the writer wanted the story to be. The title is 'If you ain't got nothin' nice to say' and the description is basically that Big Mac cannot shut up. With something like that, you should expect the worst, darkest, and with the comedy tag, even the craziest things Macintosh might say if he were unable to stop talking. I'm not sure what about the Cheerilee confession bugged you (CheeriMac fan maybe?), but I can tell you pretty evenly that it was pretty on par with what he told other ponies (with a certain difference in context) and that the only pony that seemed to get off scott free was Fluttershy.
2570592
The writer chose to start out lighthearted and make the title non-indicitive of what was happening when he wrote the first few chapters and Manlyderp has admitted this story changed from what he was planning.. Fimfiction has a comment section, not a praise section.
The Cheerilee confession bugged me because I thought it was cruel, I don't consider Mac cruel even in thought.
2570626
He's not cruel, you're right. But even kind people have cruel thoughts; they just choose not to express them. Once again, I feel the need to point out one of the major points of this story is Big Macintosh is saying things he would ordinarily not say because he cannot stop himself from speaking his mind, no matter how dark the secrets are.
And of course it started relatively light-hearted; it's a common thing to save the big guns for later, rather than expend your strongest arsenal at the start.
2570626
Yes I've admitted that the story changed, and it has to an extent. The tone certainly has, but the content hasn't. Not really at all. Even the roadmap from the beginning is still relevant; I started it out comical, fully aware that it would start to get darker later on. Rainbow Dash's speech was the tip off that the story was going to start heading down that road; I planned that out even from before I wrote the cliffhanger involving her crying. The only chapter in here that I feel is super out of place now is the intro, which I will openly admit was me trying to write something to kick me out of my almost two year drought. It totally worked too; was even able to stay true to the Cheerilee foreshadowing.
Chapter two, with Granny's speech, isn't out of place; it's foreshadowing. It's part of the many clues I've been dropping in order to help people figure out for themselves what is going to happen in the Applejack speech; the one I've been prepared to write since said chapter.
Also; yes, Fimfiction doesn't have a praise section. It's a comment section. Just to make it clear; yours have NOT been the ones I've been talking about when I've been discussing hateful comments. You have valid points, ones I'm free to either agree with or disagree with. I agree with a lot of what you've been saying, but not all of it. And that's fine; we're all entailed to our opinions. I can't damn you for them.
2570801
if Big Mac were a talkative character who only said nice things that might not be so bad. As it is he's a character that rarely talks, and now when forced to open his mouth he's saying far to many nasty things, casting an image of a cruel or nasty person who just knows to keep his mouth shut.
as for the big guns thing, I tend to think of stories as more like a trip, and the destination is not where it was suggested it would be
2570852
Where was the destination suggested to be?
I'm sorry, but this last comment of yours has legitimately intrigued me more then the others have. I was under the impression that said destination was intentionally left in the shadows; possibly ending in such a way as to realistically match up with the status quo presented in season five, or instead somewhere else completely. Said somewhere being left up to the reader's imagination; in a dark place or a light place depending on their own assumptions built up over the course of the story.
If I wanted the destination to be a hundred percent obvious, I would have kept the comedy tag, ditched the slice of life, and wrote about Big Mac making a comical fool of himself for everyone's amusement.
That idea is unappealing to me, which is why Slice of Life was there from the start.
2570891 The beginnings of this story felt very much like the beginning of an episode of the show that would feature Cutie Mark Failure Insanity Syndrome
based on the early chapters with what Mac and Applejack's reactions I was expecting something mostly sweet that would be leaving AJ kind of feeling silly for being worried about it, sort of like her fleeing town when she got no blue ribbons or prize money at the rodeo while right now AJ's concern about what Mac has to say to her feels like it has been almost dropped from the story where it seemed like they'd be Applejack's major concern.
Right now I'm almost afraid Mac's opinion will be incestuous in some way
2570820
I have been enjoying the story, greatly in fact, even as it has taken a decidedly more... well not dark, let us say "Tragedy." I use this word specifically because of something the great comic director Mel Brooks said: "Tragedy is when I cut my finger, comedy is when you fall down a well and die." Certainly seeing Big Mac make a fool of himself in the beginning was utterly hilarious but as we've seen the consequences pile upon him we know that he won't get out of here unscathed. The work has moved from Parody to Deconstruction (both of which I enjoy) and this chapter is a perfect example of that. Many authors here take things from the show that were played for laughs (and were funny with the Fridge Logic of not thinking about the implications) and turned it into something far darker, tragic, or serious. I've read a few fics about how characters could, would, and should, rightfully have PTSD from their experiences. As Big Mac points out in this chapter himself, how much would Spike suffer from knowing that he claim close to killing his friends? How does that haunt him? That's some heavy stuff there. That's things people may not want to think about right before bed, they'ld rather just have a silly story about silly ponies doing silly things. The only thing that I can think of that would be "triggering" is an event that hasn't been exposited yet but has been mentioned: the domestic abuse of Big Mac. Personally I've dealt with MORE than enough of that sort of situation in real life and tend to avoid stories about it.
I think that a number of people are feeling that they did get the old "Bait and Switch" and admittedly while I still see the humor in many of these situations I can also state that it is coming across as... muddled... It's harder to enjoy the comedy AND harder to take the dramatic seriously because, as others have mentioned, it's coming across as more rushed. I know this criticism isn't particularly helpful without specifics but I shall endeavour to expound in a more helpful manner later. Suffice to say, I recommend adding a tagline about how it does delve into mature themes and serious deconstruction, or failing that adding the "Tragedy" tag to the story as well.
Since I always like to end on positive notes, I found this particular bit BY FAR funnier than I probably should have and will chuckle about it for the rest of the week (though I know that other people find it questionable) simply because of the delivery:
"While Fluttershy, Pinkie, and herself were all hugging their friend in the appropriate places for a pony to hug one another; the back, the barrel, the flank, etc, Applejack was instead hugging her just a tiny bit… higher than the rest of them.
To put it plainly, Applejack’s orange hooves were currently wrapped around Twilights throat.
Pushing against her windtunnel."
That, and the comment about Ponyville exploding AGAIN just reminds me of your work: "And then Twilight Exploded" which, admittedly is a kind of humor that not everyone enjoys, but one that I found hilarious. I've seen FAR too many stories, and am usually bored by how tediously obvious they are going to be. This is one of the very few things I've read (even when I include professional items) that has had good plot twists and for that I must applaud you! /) *applause* (\ I'm very serious about that, must people either end up with a Shaymalan "wtf" or utter predictability but you've managed to make something surprising yet feasible. That alone is worth reading the rest of the chapters whichever genre this story is / moves into.
Also your deconstruction of these characters is very well though out and you could make an excellent piece of drama out of them but then I fear I wouldn't get your particular brand of humor and that would make me more sad than anything else you could do!
2569017 There are good points and I am in support of them.
Though I'm loathe to use the base vernacular of children... a TL;DR summary follows:
Comedy and Tragedy are intertwined but people sometimes want one without the other. Your characterizations are interesting but people looking for a quick laugh are going to be put off. I'ld add a "Tragedy" tag or a tagline that things get heavy. I'm still enjoying the work and look forward to your next updates.
2569750
Also PonyTom : As someone who has experience with both, SHIPPERS are far more willing to go down with their ships than Sea Captains.
just looking through the tag list, I relaized that Fimfiction needs to add a Drama tag, because it would be perfect for a for this and would clear up the does it need to say dark or tragedy or whatever confusion. Drama would be a perfect tag for what this story is displaying.
2570961
Oh thank you so kindly for your well thought out comment! These are what I'm writing this for
Well, first of all I want to alleviate your concern on one thing; for the relationship with his mother to dip into physically abusive territory, I would for sure need add the dark tag, which I have stated time and time again that I'm not adding. The wording on that particular reveal was intentional; making you wonder if it's one way or the other. The lack of a dark tag though hopefully scares away the REALLY nasty thoughts... hopefully.
And yes, the tone IS a bit all over the place at times, I'll admit freely. Not all of my attempts to blend the two genres together have been successful... when it DOES work, I'm glad that it works well. I don't think that particular scenario you quoted would be NEARLY as funny if the rest of the story was completely comedic in nature!
Lastly, the tragedy tag/warning is a good idea, one I think I will implement. Maybe not the tag right now, but at least the warning. I've already bothered people enough with this latest chapter in my blogs; think I'll wait until the end of the story to host up a poll and see what people think
Again, thank you for taking time off to write this to me. It's always encouraging and helpful
Chapter 15 is now DONE, people! 
Have to wait to send it to my editor during a time he is available, but it at least means the next update is halfway done! Chapter 16 will be coming out within the same weekend, to take some of the stress off of these final cliffhangers! Hope I'll see you then!
-Derply
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Oh my gosh YES! That would be AMAZING
Having such a tag from the start... that would be awesome
2570852
Just because someone is polite and quiet doesn't mean that they don't have grim opinions. Nice does not always mean ignorant, after all.