Feeling Bad About Feeling Good · 6:31pm Oct 29th, 2014
(Sorry about the doublepost. Accidentally published too early, and I didn't want comments coming in on the incomplete version before I had a chance to explain myself...)
So. Just watched "Rainbow Rocks" again.
I actually really like this movie, and it makes me sad, because I keep on imagining what Ms. Faust must think of it, and what she would think of me, by proxy.
This is nothing new to me, of course, speaking as a Cadance fan. It's well-known public record by now that the show's original developer never wanted more than two alicorns, and yet, here I am, devoting most of my creative energies in this fandom to the once-controversial third alicorn. (Is Cadance drama even a thing anymore?) When pressed on this topic, I will always fall back on the following conclusion: Cadance is a Bad Thing, and we are making the most of it.
If I am being brutally honest with myself, however, I realize that I am saying this because I have the specter of a disapproving Lauren Faust watching me over my shoulder. I like alicorns. I like to have a selection of alicorns. I like that there's a younger alicorn. I like that I do not have to choose between "godlike, regal, and canon-perfect" and "struggles with inner darkness." I like everything about the fact of Cadance...
...except for the fact that I feel like I'm stepping on someone's childhood imaginings by doing so. Pity the professional artist, who frequently has to sell control of her childhood friends to a corporation who never knew them, and who will take them places you never wanted them to go. Craig McCracken, Ms. Faust's husband, as much as confirmed that "Equestria Girls" was contrary to her original vision. And I can see why, of course.
The original Equestria Girls was very much an honest "making the most of a Bad Thing" period for me. That movie was a bit of a mess; I enjoyed bits of it and did not criticize it too harshly. The fans and creators were both dealt a bad hand by management, and I liked the idea of us all sort of enduring it together. But now we have a sequel, and while rough edges still exist, on the whole, it's a much more satisfying film experience.
Nothing about it being a satisfying film experience changes the fact that it's never going to be the direction this show, this franchise, was intended to go.
My entirely non-scientific surveys of the Ponynet suggest that people are generally pleased with "Rainbow Rocks." I am... disheartened by the people who are unquenchably angry about the whole thing, the ones that point and say, functionally, Skywriter, you are the problem. That you continue to consume this media spits on the thing Lauren Faust was trying to do with this show. You, Skywriter, have participated in muddying this from something great into something merely okay. One in particular has exhorted the general public as follows: "Don't you dare forget what could have been!"
I wonder what this hypothetical show looks like in that fan's imaginings.
I wonder if I would like it as much as I like the show I'm currently watching.
I wonder if I am a worse person for liking what "could have been" greater.
I wonder if it's even true that it "could have been" greater at all.
I wonder what Lauren Faust thinks of me.
Ms. Faust, there is no chance that you are reading this, so I say this purely for myself: I actually like what they did with the characters you thought of first this time, and I'm sorry if anything has been diminished because of what I do or don't like.
It's the best I can do.
Final non sequitur: Why haven't I seen any crackfic stories where Cadance is actually the fourth siren of the coven, the only one redeemable by Star Swirl? Get on it, fandom!
That's a moving piece. I truly would like to know what FiM would look like if it had stayed totally true to the Fausticorn's vision. Would it just be season 2 endlessly repeated with slight variations? I don't know. Would that be better? Maybe.
More importantly, you know Twilight will discover the truth about her sister when she finds the Crystal Empire's secret taco room.
It's a battle of philosophies. On the one hand we have one of my favourite one-line poems of all time:
—John Greenleaf Whittier
And on the other, one of my favourite bits of lyric:
Based on third-hand accounts of a handful of things Lauren Faust has said (heard on the internet so they must be true!) I suspect Lauren Faust wouldn't mind the fans reactions to things nearly as much as the corporate side of things. As for the 'remember what could have been' thing. Sure, imagining a hypothetical alternate version is always going to seem awesome in comparisons to what we actually got. From a practical perspective, a pretty good thing we get is much better than the awesome thing we don't get.
If you've got disapproving Lauren Faust on one shoulder, do you have overly happy Cadance on the other shoulder when you run into moral dilemmas that would normally be handled by shoulder devil/angel?
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Not exactly. And even if it were the case, I hope the above blog post has made it abundantly clear that I am not at all sure who would be playing which role.
A lot of the charm in season 1 was the weird/low tech with magical or natural replacements. They totally tossed that out the window and started having cranes and video games and hydro-electric dams and giant self-propelled artillery in later seasons, which I always thought was a shame.
Extra Alicorns didn't bother me much, it was the lazy introduction of modern tech, often for nothing more than a visual gag.
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That said, in the very same episode that we have the aforementioned self-propelled artillery piece, we have a blink-and-miss-it shot of a beautiful retro surgical theater lit by fireflies. So it's not all missing, at least...
I don't think there's any problem at all with liking a thing just because it's different from the original concept. The Harry Potter movies, and the Hobbit movies, for instance. As a die-hard fan of both, I will freely and fully admit to hating certain choices made in both. Do I think the movies are better than the books? No, and I never will. Do I think the movies are hellspawn abominations shredding apart all I hold near and dear and I wish they'd never been made? No again! It bothers me when they take liberties (LEGOLAS GET OUTTA MY BARREL SCENE) but on the whole I know it's better for the movies to exist, flawed as they are, than to not exist at all.
I feel Lauren Faust, personally if not publicly, probably feels the same.
If these movie adaptations can bring even one more person to The True Fandom, whether that be the books in the case of HP / LotR or the show in the case of MLP, FANTASTIC. If we can spread the word of pony and the love of pony and all things bright and colourful and Equestrian and magical, I call it a win and wash my hands of any other drama. Now there are definitely things I'm sure I would love improved on either end, and it would be remiss of us as fans not to point those out here and there. But the important thing, I think, is to accept. To use our own fandom's key phrase, love and tolerate the shenanigans. Pointing out the flaws is fine, so long as we're not rabidly foaming at the mouth about it. That's why we're GETTING a proper pony movie! (In 2017 probably, is the word on the street.)
Things can go contrary to our visions without being the end of the world, after all. I feel confident that Mrs. Faust, while perhaps not getting the ideal version of her ponies, is still happy that they are continuing to thrive. Bringing pony back, after all, was the original and ultimate goal. :3
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Yeah, I kinda figured. Was just trying to think what a good opposite would be.
Honestly I think this fandom puts entirely too much stock in Faust's opinion. She mattered once. He vision shaped the early series. And now it doesn't. At all.
So whatever dude. You like it. Good. Sto feeling guilty about it. Guilty pleasure is bullshit :P Just like what you like.
It may sound selfish, but as long as I'm still enjoying myself, then I try not to worry too much about this kind of thing. And, if things get pushed too far and I can't enjoy the show anymore, then that will just accelerate the inevitable slide from the canon to the fanon, as far as where my main interest lies.
Yeah, that makes me sad. But it makes me hopeful, too.
Those that work on the show are given some very difficult things to work with, and they do the best they can. Honestly, I'm amazed by some of the things they've pulled off. Introducing a new alicorn by making her a changeling imposter? Oh, my goodness, yes!
The fans then pick and choose from the raw material that is the canon, and we adapt it to our own visions. And that is a good thing, I think. It means the characters and the settings have a life all their own.
Whatever Lauren thinks about the direction of the show, I want to believe that she can't be anything other than proud of how her vision has spread, grown and evolved among the fandom, and will continue to do so long after the last season airs. In other words, I think she'd be happy with your version of Princess Cadance, even if she wasn't pleased with her being in the show in the first place.
This. This needs to happen. Or something. Yeas.
It's not the same show it was in S1, but is it a worse show? I don't think I have an answer to that. There are some things I miss (in particular, the equine nature of the characters is ignored/downplayed too much these days) but other things that still come as a wonderful surprise. "Pinkie Pride", for example, could so easily have been a lazy "Special Guest Star" episode, yet turned out to be superb. And I don't think that could have been an S1 episode.
I vaguely remember seeing hints somewhere (Reddit?) to the effect that a Faust-led S3 would have become a continent-spanning epic involving lots of large-scale politics and intrigue. That would also have been a very different show from S1, albeit in a different way. And quite frankly, I don't know whether I would have liked it any more than what we've got instead.
(And yeah, I like Rainbow Rocks as well. Still
hatesomewhat dislike the concept, but I can't help liking the film itself.)I don't think you ought to feel bad. I mean, if we were consulted, and were in some hypothetical boardroom I'd argue with you about a third alicorn. I'd point to Prince Blueblood and say that princes/princesses don't need to be alicorns. I'd complain that this complicates the show's lore and makes a hash of the mythology. I'd wail that there are more ways to be 'toyetic' than to run roughshod over canon and original creator intent.
But. We weren't in this boardroom. None of us are. They did what they did for their own inscrutable corporate reasons and being faced with a fait accompli we all tried to make the best of it. And if you can turn their (I think) objectively[1] rotten decision into both enjoyment and some of the finest fics ever written[2]—and clearly you can—so much better. We are Hoardsmiths. Dealing with unexpected hands dealt to us and making unexpected new things from them... that's what we do.
We might argue about the best way to use a time-machine[3] should one come available to the fandom, but aside from that, I think your actions and attitude is admirable and worthy of emulation.
And speaking of our fanworks being more or less within the the sphere of what Faust[4] would have wanted... d'you really think her original imaginings contained a place for a grumpy fuzzy unicorn who's guilt-stricken about realpolitik? Because I seriously doubt it.
[1] Not in the sense 'I don't like it' but in the sense 'clearly not motivated by the welfare of the show.'
[2] So much so that I now like Princess Candybutt. No mean feat, that.
[3] Clearly killing George Lucas with a shovel.
[4] Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves.
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Clearly, the best use of a time machine in this fandom would be to go back in time, amass a large fortune, and then outright buy Hasbro.
Pretty sure her actual reaction would just be pride that her work has inspired so many writers, even if they're riffing off of parts that weren't technically her creations.
Much as I appreciate the sentiment you're expressing (and admire the eloquence with which it's expressed), I still gotta say -- and I don't doubt that Faust, with her industry experience, knows it full well: if the artistic integrity of your 'original vision' is your major priority, pitching your vision to the toy-advertisement network of a multinational corporation and shaping it as a revamp of a franchise they already own would be just about the stupidest possible way to go about it.
It would certainly be nice if the world worked differently, but as it is, when it comes to TV children's cartoon toy advertisement production, we're all goddamn lucky it didn't end up being about the Elements of Finding a Boyfriend or something in the first place.
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Good selections, and I agree. They're not mutually exclusive feelings. We can mourn for what might have been while enjoying what we got. We know that they are different things, and we can play with the shapes suggested by both of them. Achieving peace in one's personal pony fandom is an act of balancing those two thoughts.
I think of Cadence as the price paid for accurate Celestia merch. The tail is not quite wagging the dog over at Hasbro yet, but I choose to focus on the concessions that the dog has been making. I continue to believe that the show staff does a good job of making the best of it when silly things get handed down to them, and that's important. They're making impressive inroads on an extremely entrenched old-fashioned toy-first company culture.
Do you like show-Cadance, or just what her blank slate-ness allows you to do with her? I confess to seeing almost nothing of season 4 or either of the movies, so I might be missing some puzzle pieces here, but she's just... cracker-bread, as far as I'm aware (I have got to cut back on these hyphens); there's nothing to her as a character, so people can turn her into whatever they want her to be.
I doubt it's the simple fact of 'third alicorn' that Faust hates, though. The way Cadance was introduced and the reasons for it (moar toyz!) made her crappy. But at the risk of sounding tautological, a bad thing is only a bad thing if it's done badly. A well-done Cadance could easily win Faust's approval. I mean, even such a cornerstone as pegasi weather-control wasn't originally "Faust's Vision" - it was someone else's idea that she loved and incorporated. She'd love Cloudsdale Cadance, too, I'm sure.
And even if it is wreckage now - even if the execs and bad writers have stuffed so much cardboard and spit down Equestria's throat that the only decent thing to do is shoot it - good writers can make it something enjoyable, even if it's not the original vision. It's not wrong to like the curry just because the first chef was planning a steak course.
Also:
Oh come on, man, is taste in tv shows something on which you can even grade a thing like that? Unless you're watching the show on a television you robbed from a helpless old lady. Then you probably should feel bad.
Eh, I'm having too much fun with my setting where Cadance is a quintuplet.
As for liking the movie, all I can say is that people who whine and pine for what could have been are welcome to write their vision for the show, especially if they're complaining on this site. I'd love to see what they imagine, especially if it really does turn out better than canon. In the meantime, I'm going to partake of what actually is rather than the utopian if-only, and I'll enjoy it as much as I feel I should.
Also, Derpy was a fricking animation error. I'm more than happy with taking what I can get.
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So who is our grumpy fuzzy unicorn? I'm still trying to figure out what that references
I don't mourn in the slightest because I love what we have gotten. Cadance, Twilicorn, semi-redeemed Discord, EQG and Sunset Shimmer, everything.
If Lauren wanted to have an ongoing say in the creative direction of the show, then she shouldn't have left. She lost a lot of my respect when she raged over the EQG designs on Twitter and then went on 4chan. Talk about stabbing your former coworkers in the back.
(Not to say I won't happily watch Medusa to support her, I'm just unimpressed with how she has behaved towards FIM since she left.)
I maintain that while it's not fun when an artist loses control of the vision for a project of theirs, it's not so bad when it's handled well and with respect. And I'd say, even with a few merch-driven plot developments, the writers have done an amazing job with Friendship is Magic.
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Well... um... not to toot my own horn or anything but... I sort of wrote about one.
Then again, so did Our Gracious Host.
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(*whew*) Yeah, I was there when that happened. I believe she raged over the dolls, mainly. Which were indeed quite horrific in their own right, to say nothing of other... undercurrents they might have had.
I don't blame her for that night at all, but... certainly not the course of action I would have taken, yeah. If only because what you say and do on Twitter appears to be indelible.
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I am genuinely at a loss as to what difference this would make.
'Cause let's face it: if we go simply by the show, forego any of the tie-in media, then that's kind of like taking someone to task regarding whether or not they're a a fan of (insert stallion here) or merely what their blank-slate allows to be done with them.
Be it design or the scraps of characterization she contains, there are clearly aspects of Cadance that appeal to Sky. Critical assessments of "quality" rarely enter into the passionate aspects of fandom -- and IMO, "rarely" is the optimal frequency. World would be even more uptight than it is otherwise.
Well, personally, I like Cadance. Just, sort, of generally. Maybe it's just see's got a really cool voice (because something about that particular sort of voice appeals to me... it's one of the reasons I like Ino in Naruto (the dub obviously, yes, yes, I am that sot of heretic), but I do rather like her design as well. I ALSO found her little foray into comabt magic last season very cool - in fact, as of season four, it has now firmly settled into my head that she's a some sort of love-fuelled paladin crusader (given she was "protector of the Crystal Empire" rather than "Princess of [stuff]".
I was VERY dubious of EqG, and was on the record of saying that even the show staff could not make a silk purse out of the sow's ear of a conecpt. I am also on record as eating my helmet and a large degree of corvine entities after I had watched it and had to admit that is was not only not passable but actually good. Rainbow Rocks was even better, and I while I normally don't care much for redeemed villains (I especially still don't really buy Discord as redeemed, he was a far better villain) Sunset Shimmer strikes a chord with me. (Also the music was amazing: Under Our Spell in particular is one of the best villain songs I've heard, like, period.)
So... I am quite happy with what the show has done since Ms Faust left. She gave us a staggeringly good start - but that is not the end-all and be-all of it. MLP: FiM may owe it's beginning to Faust, but I don't think we should hold slavishly to her vision is better idas come along. (After all, there would have been no Star Wars without George Lucas... but the best bits of Star Wars (the Thrawn trilogy, TIE Fighter) did not come from him. And Avengers (or Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, for that matter) were not written by their original creators, but were still exceptionally done. I can think of precious few people, too, of whom I unquestionably agree and like everything they;ve ever done or created and some of the thing Ms Faust has said (Spike's age, for example) I vehermently disagree with, simply because it did not ever gel with what we were shown.
So I don't think you should feel guilty for playing in the toybox that is been provided for us, just because it's not quite the same toybox that she left us with. If MLP ever slides back to the likes of Gen 3... THEN we can all get up in arms.
On the flip-side, I can see Ms Faust's point on the EqG toys in particular: they are quite horrifiying. But, sadly, given the apparent success of Bratz, it was inevitable Hasbro would want to try to compete: and as awesome as pony is, it cannot change ingrained social trends overnight single-hoofedly. (Though I was ruminating the other day how much things HAVE changed for the better since I was a child). Hell, the season finale in which Twilight when all DBZ on us shows that while Twilight may be a Princess, she is still quiet capable of kicking insane amounts of arse. That finale was completely worth Twilight's alicornification.
(Besides, about half the Twilight-centric stories in the fandom were about her becoming one...!)
I'm really dubious that, at this point, Friendship Is Magic is Faust's any more than FIMFiction.net is knighty's. In both cases, that's true on a technical level, but it's too big a thing to fit in one person's
hooveshandsgrasping-appendages.Vision is a major factor, certainly, and if there wasn't a great vision we wouldn't be here; but what brings us back every day isn't the vision, it's the actual content, and that's the product of more people than we can easily name.
How much of what you love about Cadance is due to Meghan McCarthy? How much of what I love about Luna is due to M.A. Larson? How much of what we love about those characters, or others like them, is due to this very site? I'll join the chorus of people affirming that you, Skywriter, have singlehandedly made me appreciate Cadence. Is that disrespecting Faust? Because, no offense to her, and I'm grateful for everything she's done; but I care about you more — I talk with you almost daily — and I'm not going to throw that out in pursuit of respect for a single distant celebrity.
The interesting thing about Cadance, and indeed, Equestria Girls, is that both DHX and the fans taking simple corporate money grabbing and making something of them, is pretty much EXACTLY what Lauren Faust did with the My Little Pony franchise to BEGIN with. Really, all you are doing is continuing the grand tradition.
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After the original trilogy, of course.
Though, in fairness to Lucas, when you look at some of the things in the expanded universe, it's not hard to see why he kind of went nutty.
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Wisdom!
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Aw shucks...
I am super-behind on canon.
This vaguely reminds me of
NeitchzeKeikegardHonycomb's thing about "liking something in spite". Which I'd have to dig up, because I'm not sure "in spite" of what plus I want to review it anyways.I don't feel Cadance drama is a "thing" anymore. Then again, I never knew it was a thing. Also, timetraveling me is kinda stuck in post-S3 drama currently.
Sky, you get a super top-secret preview of my headcanon just because.
I thought Equestria Girls (the first one) was absolutely awful, and I have friends who refuse to watch the second one...
...but it isn't actually because of the premise of them going to the human world. I mean, yes, it was awful, and the character designs are mostly terrible, but the real problem with that movie was that it was boring. I and my viewing companions were not interested or engaged. The scene transitions were awkward, the pacing was bad, there were so many missed or lost opportunities for jokes or even insightful commentary, the new characters were very flat and uninteresting (and frankly Flash Sentry got no personality at all, really, and Sunset Shimmer was horribly generic)...
I dunno. There wasn't anything there for me. I didn't even like the music.
You gotta judge by what was actually produced, and I was not impressed.
I have not yet seen Rainbow Rocks, so I can't say whether or not I'll like it. I'll watch it at least twice, though, just to make sure that I can remember all the material in case I can find something worth referencing there.
I mean, you've written the best Equestria Girls story... YOU knew how to make use of it, with that story about Applejack calling her parents. That was great. And frankly, had that sort of thing actually happened in the movie, it might have actually been interesting. Alas...
Anyway, as far as Cadance goes:
Cadance's introduction was not great, but honestly it was the introduction of Shining Armor which was awful. I could buy that Princess Cadance existed, but Twilight's BBBFF just appearing out of nowhere not only made no sense it actually contradicted the image of Twilight which had existed at the start of the series. He could have been at least mentioned somewhere in season 2 prior to the finale, so that we would have had some warning of his existence, and there were a lot of places he could have been mentioned - maybe have Twilight mention that she wanted to go visit him, or have one or the other write a letter, or maybe have him briefly appear in Hearth's Warming Eve for a little bit so we knew he existed (and it would make the betrayl of him having a fiance and not mentioning it all the sweeter to the audience, because it would have made the betrayl much more powerful because we knew the character existed and we would have good reason to be outraged along with Twilight Sparkle).
Anyway... Cadance and Shining Armor both were very flat characters. Frankly, Shining Armor still is pretty flat; Cadance has a bit more personality now, and is a bit rounder, and both have some stuff to them... but we really have to make up most everything about them if we want to use them.
I think that there's nothing wrong with the idea of Cadance. Having someone who is further along into adulthood than Twilight Sparkle, but still young enough to remember being in Twilight's shoes and not being old and wise and mysterious, is worthwhile, I think. However, Cadance, Shining Armor, Luna, and Celestia all feel like "adult characters" - not only are they the ponies in-world who are most "adult" and most charged with adult responsibilities, being responsible for all the other (slightly childlike, softer) ponies, but they also have the most adult issues. And frankly, I think that's a bit of a problem, not because they can't be interesting, but because it is really hard for the show to really focus on them adequetely and give them any sort of interesting depth or focus on said problems because they are probably not the sort of thing you want to show little girls. The burdens and rewards of leadership are complicated, and something which a lot of adults have difficulty grasping; making an episode about it intended for five year olds is pretty tough, I think.
Also, the show probably has too many characters now - we've got the mane six, Spike, and the CMC, which is already ten characters. That makes using Granny Smith, Big Mac, the Princesses, and Shining Armor all the harder because it is hard to really focus on them adequately. Luna Eclipsed was an excellent use of Luna, and her use in Scootaloo's episode was okay... but she was pretty worthless in Sweetie Belle's episode, and had lost all the personality we'd seen before (and it totally missed out on the very, very strong ability to parallel Sweetie Belle's bitterness at being overshadowed with Luna's own - that could have been a totally awesome 5/5 episode and could have done great things for both Sweetie Belle and Luna).
Cadance, at least, got used in one episode this season, and I would love to see the characters used well... but that requires time, focus, and energy which is a lot of work.
This is too sore a subject for me.
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I think that, for the most part, HP/LoTR are more the exception than the rule in movies. They heeltoe the books for the most part and manage to bring the world of the books to life in a believable way. That's not always true and if I must be honest I'd have loved to see a scenario where all of the HP movies had the sound done by John Williams (only the first one was), because movies and their music are so intertwined. I'd have to watch them again, but I think the first movie is the best, due in no small part to the music. Sure there were other really awesome things, like the actor who played dumbledore in that movie, but if the music was different it just wouldn't be the same at all.
I feel bad for Lauren Faust, but on the other hand, there's a lot for her to be proud of directly and indirectly. Making a show that both guys and girls, and adults will watch largely without excessive compromising on either end is impressive. As a show it occasionally manage to address things in a way that could be construed as education. Then there's the fan work. I don't know the numbers, but there is a vast amount of fan work out there. And the portion of that art which is good quality is high compared to the iffy stuff. I also think that knowing that your work and that done mostly according to your intentions inspired people to regularly write quality fiction on the order of several hundred thousand words is something to be happy about. I think she accomplished what she meant to even if she isn't happy with every single detail.
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I think her vision is still shaping the show, indirectly. The early seasons set the standard by which the rest is created/made. If they did away with that they would destroy the show.
I don't really have a problem with Cadance, although in canon she seems a bit shallow. I don't know how much it really adds in the show, but I don't think it takes anything away. Making Twilight a princess irked me a little bit, but with the exception of the ending of season 4 I think it's something that could logically follow all of that. If alicorns really are that rare, then it makes sense that they would, potentially, have a place in leadership. Since they belong to all 3 races, at least phenotypically (appearance) I think they have the opportunity to serve as a unifying party b/c none of the others can claim that they're just a unicorn and not a pegasus. It's a handy solution to ruling divided tribes not unlike things that once existed in the real world. If there are three feuding families and you are related to all of them, then your position is somewhat key.
While I understand your sentiments, I disagree, but more than that, I feel you, by putting Ms. Faust on a pedastal, are doing a disservice to the other writers of the show, especially the other head writers (M. A. Larson and Meghan McCarthy.) At this point, and indeed since season 2, it's no longer Lauren Faust's show. Her show was season one, and hopefully someday Galaxy Girls.
But once she left, it was no longer her baby. It was as grown up as a story gets (especially a serial). Ms. Faust's opinion of Rainbow Rocks does carry weight, but not as the author or creator, just as another writer in the franchise. It's Meghan McCarthy and Jason Theissen who get the credit (and blame) for that movie.
Do you judge The Dark Knight Returns based on the ideas of Bob Kane? Should we judge Frozen purely by the standards of what Walt Disney would have wanted?
Death of the author goes on overdrive here, because the author changed. And Cadance, and Equestria Girls, are, and have always been, Meghan McCarthy's stories, not Lauren Faust's.
I think people can be too quick to assume they know exactly what Lauren Faust thinks. It's true that she's occasionally expressed sadness at whatever plans didn't come to fruition, but she's also given a number of interviews that are very positive about the show's role in having a wider audience and being more than just Low Effort Show Aimed at Girls. I remember her saying somewhere a few years ago that she hasn't even watched the show since she left because she wants to remember it as she wanted it. So maybe even she doesn't know how the rest of it stacks up.
Regardless, I'll echo others' sentiment: Good storytelling is always welcome, and if it hews close to the original goal of something little girls would enjoy and be inspired by, even better.
I would have passed this journal by, save that I had this exact thought (though not over RR) earlier today. D: Faust help us all.
Hoy, this could get long. Might end up splitting it up. Here goes...
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I personally love the fact how whenever a canon preference for a food item is shown it becomes this all-consuming fascination in the fanon. As with Trixie and peanut butter crackers, as with Derpy and muffins, so it is with Sonata and tacos. I am endlessly amused.
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I am ostensibly in this fandom to enjoy myself, and I've found that, given a little effort, I can keep myself from focusing on the negative aspects. There's still an awful lot of positive to find.
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I'd like to believe that's the case, about Ms. Faust, I mean. Truth is, I really don't know. At the end of things, I can't rationalize my way out of the possibility of guilt by imagining I do or don't know what the original adapter hypothetically thinks of me. I just gotta be strong enough to like what I like without trying to excuse it somehow. It's an enduring challenge.
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Oh, I'm fully aware she doesn't have creative input at this point, I just worry about what the proper level of respect might be for her foundation work on the series.
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I don't think I can do it justice, but feel free to run with 'er if you want.
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It's hard to say. I probably would still have enjoyed it; so long as it were to sit squarely on the juncture of horses, girls and fairies, which the current version does and which I suspect the hypothetical Faust S3 would have, I would probably still be a fan. I'd probably be doing different fanart, though.
2562460
Ghost, as usual, you never fail to delight. A bit unfair to Lucas, of course. He was an effing pioneer of the genre. I just dont think his writing chops are as strong as his SFX ones are.
2562493
Heavens yes. Cady took the pinkness bullet for her Aunty, that's for certain.
2562513
I agree with 2562589 in saying that constructing a vibrant character out of character scraps, or, on occasion, an appealing character design alone, is nothing new for the fandom!
Cadance is a bit of a Rorschach princess, I'll admit, though we do get a few more flashes of personality in "Three's a Crowd" than we had before. And I think you underestimate my prodigious ability to feel guilty about things.
2562613
I think the writers are doing a phenomenal job at integrating Hasbro's dictates with appealing and well-told stories. As noted, the original Equestria Girls faltered on occasion; I was prepared to give it a lot of leeway just because of the ridiculous starting point the writers were put in. I was pleasantly surprised that the sequel didn't actually require me to figure in that handicap again. It's not perfect, but it's a quality mid-level Pony episode in my mind, which is pretty remarkable given THE EFFING LACK OF PONIES.
Okay, enough on this chain 'cause it's getting unwieldy. Let me kick off another one.
2562540
Oh, yes, that makes much more sense now, thanks!
2562438
I concur!
That something good is not what was originally intended does not in any way detract from the fact that it is good, and should be appreciated on its own merits.
Of course I would love to see what Lauren Faust would have done with seasons 3 onwards, but if the folks producing it now do a good job of it then they deserve some appreciation for the fact.
2563098
One thing I can say for certain, regardless of Faust's frame of mind, is that there's no use in -- nor reason for -- beating yourself up in this regard. The mere fact that you are concerned is, in itself, evidence of a level of respect for the show creator above and beyond what any reasonable artist could ever ask for.
2562615, 2562523
I was not aware that she had gone public against the toy designs; somehow I missed that spark on my pony-drama detector? It doesn't seem like the wisest move but I have a hard time blaming her, given what I've seen of the dolls...
2562617, 2562820, 2562538
Believe me, I have no wish to disrespect or in any way diminish the writers, either. Many people have contributed to my enjoyment and understanding of these characters (and I should add that not all of them are present or past employees of DHX, either). When I love something that a character said, chances are it wasn't Ms. Faust's pen who wrote the line. I love her overall vision, but the few episodes she actually wrote are not my favorite writing-wise. There is something more fundamental going on here than a question of respect for the art itself, or the artists who created it. I can't quite put it into words. Maybe it's like a deep, fundamental worry that if I don't have the right to enjoy something that makes someone else feel bad, especially someone to whom I have this vague concept of indebtedness to.
(I'm flattered, Horizon. Thank you.)
2562681
Thanks for sharing your headcanon with me!
2562796
Thanks for your typically-incisive input, TD. Totally agreed on "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils," not the poorest episode of S4 (cough cough simple ways cough cough) but possibly the biggest mismatch between concept and execution. ("Equestria Games" squanders a certain amount of vague potential, which is different that whiffing a line drive down the middle like "For Whom..." does.) And yes, I think most fans are in agreement that having Cady and Shiny dumped on us like that was... inelegant, at best. And I'm not going to pretend that Rainbow Rocks was flawless, but its missteps are IMO rather fewer in number than the original EQG. YMMV and all.
2562803
Completely understood. It is a bit of a charged topic. Hence my, um, long and wangsty blog post about it, I suppose.
2562816
This detail about alicorns certainly helps me write my story about a Canterlot-raised pony (Cadance) who aspires to be a governental official in a pegasus city. In essence, alicorns fit in everywhere; or perhaps nowhere?
2562826
I admit, this whole blog post convicts me of doing a lot of imagining (and subsequent worrying about) the opinions of a person I don't really know and only met one time.
2562868
Eh, it'll be all right. I hope, at least.
2562820
2562617
MA Larson almost certainly made up the Sonic Rainboom; if you look at season 1, early in season 1, Rainbow Dash mentioned a bunch of tricks. Then MA Larson made Sonic Rainboom, and then referenced it again in the Cutie Mark Chronicles (which dropped the backstories of the characters... how much of those did he make up? As we'll see, very possibly the rock farm as well). He was the only writer to reference it in season 1, and yet he slipped it into two episodes. Now it is an established part of Rainbow Dash's character.
He wrote Luna Eclipsed, and thus has credit for the good version of Luna.
He wrote The Return of Harmony, and thus can take at least partial credit for Discord.
He wrote Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000, which gave us the Flim Flam brothers.
He wrote It's About Time, which gave us Twilight time travelling.
He wrote Ponyville Confidential, which provided us with the best version of Diamond Tiara.
He wrote Magic Duel, which featured the return of Trixie and a further mention of Pinkie Pie's rock farm, something which, I believe, had not been mentioned by any other writer ever... which thus meant that he mentioned it twice AGAIN, another attribute of a character which he in all probability made up, and then became canon as we got to see it in season 4.
And he gave Twilight Sparkle wings, though, let's be fair here, that had been planned at least all season, wasn't just his decision (though the episode was great), and had possibly been planned since the start of the series - even Faust mentioned that Twilight was being groomed as Celestia's successor, and was going to gain the ability to fly... really, let's face it, the alicorn thing was definitely something which could be argued to have been set up in season 1 (though whether that was really intentional or not, I can't say; Faust has kind of avoided talking about it).
(He also wrote Secret of My Excess, but we don't talk about that. Though frankly, in retrospect, that episode was better than I gave it credit for... except for the middle part. Oh well).
That dude was funny, made a bunch of great episodes, but also did a huge amount in terms of characterization, and frankly, I feel like part of the reason season 4 fell flat was that they didn't have him trolling around and making jokes for other people to steal.
McCarthy has also contributed in a big way, though unfortunately she struggled with making two-part episodes in my eyes. She did give us a number of very important episodes, though, and a lot of really great ones early on. She also created Queen Chrysalis and the changelings, which were cool. Alas, it took her several attempts to get down pacing on stuff longer than a single episode - A Canterlot Wedding, The Crystal Empire, Equestria Girls, and Princess Twilight Sparkle all had some plot structure and pacing issues to varying degrees (she finally seemed to work the kinks out by the end of season 4).
I think the influence of Amy Keating Rogers shouldn't be underestimated, either.
But yeah, it wasn't just Faust and frankly, I think the show Faust originally had in mind wouldn't have been very good. Hasbro basically forcing Faust to make a slice of life show with some adventure elements made the show what it is, thus proving that not all corporate meddling is bad.
2563254
I feel like For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils was the episode which had the most wasted potential of any episode in the entire series, as it was just such a really great idea with such a lackluster execution. It isn't the worst episode in season 4, but it was by far the most disappointing. Equestria Games was disappointing as well, but more in a "that's it?" kind of way rather than in a "You had the right idea, how did you manage to not execute on it?" way.
Plus I wrote a story that I liked because of Equestria Games, so nyah.
Though I'm surprised you disliked Simple Ways the most; I personally felt that was one of the strongest episodes of season 4. Trenderhoof's casual racism, the look Spike gave the camera when Rarity was sobbing her eyes out over her love interest not noticing her, Rarity's awful attempts at being country, this:
i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/694/718/bb7.png
I enjoyed the interplay between the uninterested and uncomfortable Applejack, the clueless Trenderhoof, and Rarity's increasing levels of ham. It wasn't the best thing in the universe, but I felt it was a solid 4/5. Of course, I love Rarity and Applejack interacting...
What was it that made you dislike it so? Or did you previously write a blog post about that that I missed? Or did we already have this discussion and I have just forgotten it?
If I was going to put something on the bottom, it would probably be Bats, which basically hinged entirely on Flutterbat being cute (which she was), but which had all sorts of issues. I felt like the very idea behind the episode - that Applejack had animal pests on her farm, and had to face off with Fluttershy over it - was just a really bad idea for an episode because that is an actual real life problem farmers have to face, and the solution is indeed to get rid of the vermin. I felt like this was terrible lesson because it portrayed Applejack as wrong for protecting her livelihood from pests, and because that sort of thing doesn't really feel like it fits into the world of Equestria (their previous run-in with pests, the Parasprites, was dealt with in a very suitably pony manner without being bothersome). Added to that was Twilight's lesson amnesia (seriously, changing what food something ate resulting in a mishap is a plot that they already did, and better, back in season 1), my least favorite song in the entire series (it even beats out BBBFF, which both touches on a pet peeve and serves as a reminder that I'm watching a show for five year old girls), and the fact that a lot of the episode was Flutterbat flying back and forth overhead. Heck, they even failed to make use of the fact that the apple was polished to a mirror sheen earlier in the episode, which could have meant they could have used it as bait and as a mirror at the same time - Chekhov shot himself with his gun there.
Though I also disliked Daring Don't; beyond not caring much for the episode, the use of Daring Do as a story within a story was a cute idea, and could have lead to a fun (and funny) metaplot or two (not that YOU would know anything about meta stories, now would you?). Instead we got an episode which featured the main characters standing around for about two-thirds of the story because the plot demanded it be so, and they apparently forgot that she was real by the end of season 4 by having Rainbow Dash lusting after a signed copy of a Daring Do book. I mean, she knows Daring Do; couldn't she just go, you know, get her to sign it? Isn't that a little easier than selling Fluttershy into
slaveryindentured servitude?Sometimes an episode ends up poor, but sometimes I feel like the idea for an episode wasn't ever really any good in the first place. Admittedly Daring Do being real could have been an interesting idea, but they didn't really do anything interesting with it, and I didn't feel like it was necessarily the best way of using Daring Do (and, let's face it - they already had Luna, who was previously a legend, become real, so isn't that a bit played out?). In the end, I feel like squandering opportunity is bad, and reflects poorly on them, but something which was ill-conceived to start out with is more worrisome to me because it reflects an inability to parse out poor ideas.
Lauren Faust is always a complicated topic. Being a big fan I of course feel terrible about what happened to her, and were I ever to meet her I would never admit to being a brony. I know very little about her future vision for the show--what "could have been"--though I've always felt it would have been the best, truest route for the characters and world she created. But...I'm also fairly confidant that, compared to the show we have gotten, I would have liked Lauren's version much less. After all, Twilight was meant to replace Celestia, which likely means her death/departure in some way, which I would have hated.
So it's weird. Part of me wants to have gotten Faust's original vision, and I'll always see it as the real story of Twilight and her friends, but also the more painful one, and since what I have now is less painful, part of me is happy Lauren's vision never happened.
Though of course, the current show is painful in other ways. In particular, of the slow death sort. The kind where the characters become shells of their former selves. I don't think that would have happened in Lauren's hands at all.
So yeah, it's complicated. *shrugs*
As grateful as I am that she created the FiM series, I don't think Lauren Faust did the best job when she was directly involved. Honestly, I think the show was better when she took a step back (i.e. Season 2), and this last season overall was another improvement. (I'll grant the counterpoint of Season 3, which wasn't great.) While she did a fantastic job of making characters, settings, and other generic worldbuilding setup, I think all of that has really been at its best in the hands of other writers, be they the show writers or (dare I say) fanfiction authors. All of these writers have clashed and joined with her own non-canon worldbuilding, and quality has been mixed, but it's had some great moments when it diverged from The Great Fausticorn's headcanon.
So yeah. Overall, I think Lauren Faust's opinions are given a bit too much importance. Obviously, I am glad she made the series, but for me, the best thing about FiM has been seeing what others have done with it. Heck, I think that's what's best about any artistic endeavor, and I know I personally would be thrilled to see others take my characters and put their own spin on them, even if their worldbuilding contradicted mine.
In all honesty, as long as the delivered product is pretty good (and as long as the original work is still available), I don't really mind when new folks tread all over the original creator's toes. Those two qualifications are super important, of course; a poor showing deserves to be lambasted, and while "what could have been" has some value as a concept, the episodes that Faust did contribute to do still exist unchanged. As long as a Hasbro doesn't pull a George Lucas and try to edit/update/expunge the original versions, it's all good.
The classic example in my mind, is the Shining. Awesome book, turned into an awesome movie, which the author hated with a passion. Whether King enjoyed Kubrick's rendition, however, is irrelevant, as the original book remains unchanged (and we have King's own interpretation of the story as a miniseries, which I guess technically counts as a plus).
Lauren Faust, to the best of my understanding, is both a good person and a consummate professional. So she's not going to be put off by you liking the stuff she didn't intend, especially since that stuff -- Princess Heartbutt of the Restored Empire, for example -- is pretty good and interesting in its own right.
I think there's a tendency in the fandom to put Ms. Faust on a pedestal; part of it is just for fun, see the Fausticorn for that, or from genuine gratitude and admiration, but part of it is hipsterish "purity" thinking and that part just needs to be ignored. She's not perfect, nor is she the only person who's defined the show.
I largely agree. However, I take solace in the fact that the show canonically occurs in a multiversal setting, which I can imagine includes the S1 Faustiverse, in which Shining Armor married Princess Skyla the pegasus, the only dams are mommy horses or beaver creations, and two hooves bad, four hooves good.
2563418
I should rephrase "worst" to be "least enjoyable," I guess. The episode is put together basically coherently and actions follow one from another, but Rarity (to me) crosses the line into "unbelievably abominable" and Trend is as irritating as sandpaper to the crotch. It's just not one I go back to, despite the fact that Spike finally shows some much-welcome maturity throughout.
2563874
Trenderhoof's hipsterness amused me, but then again, I'm from Oregon and I'm pretty sure he must be from Vanhoover.
derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/2/10/548136__safe_applejack_simple+ways_spoiler-colon-s04e13_racism_smug_trenderhoof_uncomfortable_casual+racism.jpg
"You know, I have such great respect for the work ethic of
Asiansmudearth ponies."derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/2/10/548116__safe_rarity_crying_sad_simple+ways_spoiler-colon-s04e13_mascara.jpg
"Oh Spike, how could you ever know what it's like to be totally obsessed with a pony only to find that they're obsessed with somepony else?"
derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/2/8/546808__safe_solo_animated_spike_hub+logo_reaction+image_hubble_fourth+wall_hub_simple+ways.gif
Also, while the episode never mentions it, the fact that Trenderhoof, who is a total hipster, is only interested in Apple
jackis a wonderfully terrible stealth pun.Maybe I just put a very high premium on humor. Or maybe I just find making fun of hipsters hilarious, being someone who lives out in the country in an area full of hipsters who love to talk about nature and how awesome all natural farming is.