Serious Story Discussion about its... Seriousness · 7:11pm Sep 21st, 2014
Howdy Howdy.
So, the latest chapter of "If you ain't got anything nice to say..." just came out! Yay!
... And there was many an argument about Big Mac's character in the comment section, to the point where all the laughs about Scootaloo exploding got covered up.
Um... yay?
The next chapter is done; I've written it up and just need to tweak it a bit myself before I send it to my editor for the last check over.
... But I'm very, VERY hesitant to post it now.
So, let's have a discussion, shall we? Let me share my philosophy and a bit of my overall plan for the story with you all and then you can give me some feedback so that we can make this tighter, ya?
Okay, first of all, the big one; Big Mac. Some are saying that I'm painting him out to be this sort of evil, vile, self-centered pony who only thinks of himself and hates everypony around him. Now, I'm not going to wag my finger and tell you he's the complete opposite, no no no; I'm just going to share my design philosophy with you.
When I've been writing Big Mac's rants, I've been writing them from the viewpoints of other ponies. I didn't want to write from his perspective, because I imagine him crying the entire time he's under the plant's spell. If I was writing just a straight up comedy, I would have done this in a heartbeat... but this is also a slice of life story, so I felt it made more sense to show how his rants were affecting everyone's, not just his own, life.
Is this completely out of left field? No; up to this point I've made sure to add hints in each ponies' retelling that painted the picture that Big Mac was distressed by this whole thing. "... the look on his face after he said it..." "... I think I heard a sorry in there..." "I'm sorry. I'm a terrible pony, but..."
And, in chapter 9, he will be CLEARLY crying during Rarity's moment.
Some would argue that this sort of seriousness isn't compatible with a comedy... and, yeah, they're right. This story IS supposed to be a comedy, and in that respect I feel as though I've succeed there...
... but I've been slowly making things much more serious. Dash's problem wasn't comedic in the slightest, and it wasn't supposed to be. Big Mac went behind her back and did something underhanded because he thought he could get away with it without talking to Dash directly! Maybe he had a point in doing it, because Dash is a bit thick about these sort of things and Mac knew that talking to her was pointless, but it was still wrong of him AND HE KNOWS IT.
To make matters worse, Chapter 9 will be one of the most serious chapters in the entire story, with VERY little comedy.
It's going to be bad. It's going to be the tipping point. It's going to be what prepares the story for the inevitable climax... with Applejack receiving the final, tear causing rant.
But, if there's one truth in this world that I follow above all else, it's this; you need to hurt before you can heal.
This story will NOT receive a dark tag. I'm debating adding a Sad tag, but I'll host that poll after Chapter 9 is out.
This story will also NOT drop it's comedic nature altogether. They'll still be plenty of some good laughs to be had... they'll just start to be rarer as the slice-of-life portion has it's time in the spotlight.
But that's okay, because I know how to end this fic realistically on that supposedly impossible to obtain high note, WITHOUT the use of Deus Ex Machinas.
And I'm confident that I can do it with everypony being in character, with both Comedy and Slice-of-Life tags being equally respected.
So, is this a bait and switch then? Did I lie to you about what sort of fic I was writing? Did you want to see Big Mac ranting at ponies in person, while I only wanted to save it for the important ponies?
Please, share your opinions below.
Thank you,
-Derply
Personally I think it is fine how you've been doing it.
I'm still confused about what people are upset by. So Mac basically rallied the PTA against Dash... it's fairly sensible. I'm sure most PTA's were against Evel Kenievel, and Dash could be seen as a pony to inspire foals to do stupid stuff that get's them hurt, something every PTA is strongly against. His actions with regard's to Dash, while I don't like them, are consistent with my firmly established head-cannon about him.
Mac always struck me as someone who avoids conflict. If he talked to Dash about it, she'd take offense, then her friends would get involved, AJ would have trouble deciding who to side with, a princess might get involved. It's be a big hassle for everyone, much easier to get the PTA to do it quietly, that way there's no fighting.
After writing that I'm suddenly left with the feeling that my head-cannon is giving Mac a very abusive childhood. I think I feel bad about that, but I'm not sure.
Tragi-comedies tend to do...well what you're doing. Honestly, I was anticipating some drama coming. Some...may not. That's where the surprise may be coming from, I think.
A Sad tag...may be appropriate. Either way, looking forward to the next chapter.
Going to agree with the others here, I think it's been fine as-is anyway.
I don't think you lied per-se. I mean your synopsis was accurate to say the least, and this is building up to speaking to him I presume. Though the comedy tag may have led to preconceived notions of what would happen, that has no bearing on the fact that if anyone feels lied to, it's not through you saying anything that would have directly given them a false premise.
Also, tagging can be tough, especially when the chapters change flavors, and you have to put them all right on the front page essentially. It'd be nice if there were per-chapter tags I suppose.
But for the time being, as you decided to give us a warning about the next chapter, and as the most recent chapter involved so many hurt feelings (and blood?), I might say that adding the sad tag would make it more accurate at this point.
This is up to you, and you said you were going to poll people's feelings after the chapter. So I think that even if there was bait-and-switch, intentional or not, at least you are being fair and communicative with your audience about all this.
That's the opinion I've garnered from this blog post. I can't claim to have read through the comments section completely to see what others may have said or how this issue came to be blog worthy. But based on what you have said, and the potential for misunderstanding, this is my input.
On that note, I'm looking forward to the next chapter, no matter what emotion it'll be riding on
Well if you add the Sad tag then you have to remove the Comedy one. Both can't be present on a story because they're apparently opposites. I feel like it's retaining enough of it's comedic nature based on the reactions of the characters.
As for us, we go in with the knowledge that Big Mac has no filter. Everything he's saying is his literal first thought without tempering words because ponies are his friends, or because he respects them. Let's be completely honest, our first thoughts when our friends do something stupid is usually pretty unfair, which is why we weigh our words carefully and think about the person and their thought process before we speak.
We can sort of see the hilarity of the situation even throughout the semi depressing situation. So I say to keep it has a comedy and follow your plan.
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Well that's certainly reassuring, thanks! Guess I kinda lost my way there for a bit; forgot my own motto about how I'm supposed to write for myself, not cater to others... it's an easy thing to forget!
Still though, a point has been made about adding the sad tag; doing such a thing would get rid of the comedy tag, which I don't think I should do. Between the two... well comedy wins, since it's still a heavy part of the story. I don't remember if the Dark tag would also cancel out comedy... but I'm still sticking by my stance of not adding it.
I guess the poll will now be if I should have a "WARNING: Gets a little sad later on!" author's note or something in there somewhere... but whatever.
Thank you all for commenting! Chapter 9 IS done... but I think I'm going to wait to post it up alongside chapter 10 and maybe 11, which both are quite a bit lighter on the drama
See you then
...okay, I didn't realize that, like Adventure and Slice of Life, this site considers Sad and Comedy to be conflicting categories.
....really?
Suppose you could add the Tragedy tag? Technically, what's happening to Mac is a tragic thing (compulsive talking + removal of honesty filter), so that might work.
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Wait, you cannot tag a story as comedy and sad at the same time
(my username does not lie, I am a reader, not a writer. So I'm not too sure of the rules)
Well, that does make it a lot more confusing than I thought @_@
I suppose the "WARNING: Gets a bit sad" is a good idea. Though maybe, rather than lean on comedy, and be full of drama and sadness. Or conversely mark it sad, and ignore all of the lighter tones and comedic touches. Why not just make it pure slice of life? A slice of life is a moment that can encompass the good, the bad, and the ugly, such as life itself is full of.
That might be a more neutral way to deal with the tagging crisis.
But yeah, you keep on writing! Those of us who enjoy it are happy for it, but it should be about your ideas and putting them out there whether we like it or not! I for one am glad you are sharing it, and sorry to hear that this has been giving you any amount of grief though, and I thank you for not letting it shut you down.
And I have a busy week anyway, so I'll look forward to the explosion of new chapters waiting for me when I have the time
2473411 No.... tragedy in the context of this site means something BAD happens that cannot be fixed.
2473397 Dark doesn't cancel out Comedy. I'm not completely sure why but only Sad is considered the opposite of Comedy. Dark is more absolute good vs. Absolute evil. War, Torture, etc.
2473411 Tragedy is usually used more so for death of a main character or a story that's going to have the protagonist fail utterly at their mission.
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Oh.
Okay, yeah, I see what you mean. Thanks for the dataz.
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While they have a point, I did actually consider the tragedy tag idea for a moment. You had a valid point, so thanks for the suggestion!
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Hmmm... maybe that would work! I'll do a poll after the next chapters are out! Thanks!
Naw, it's fine so far, though what you talked about was disconcertingly headcanon'd. I get where it's coming from and I get why, but it's still disconcerting. Does 'n doesn't feel Big Mac.
Fun Fact; people will never focus on the things you want them to in your fics.
It's like people forgot to read the parts of the story that hint Big Mac is under the effects of Poison Joke and, as such, is acting very out of character. As far as the things he's done when not on Poison Joke, well, they're just knit-picking.
Plus, if we're to be wholly honest, Big Mac isn't exactly super defined. Still better than.... ugh.... Flash Sentry.... though, because while he isn't super defined, he does still have a personality.
.... Your next fic should be Flash Sentry stepping in Poison Joke and becoming interesting.