Canon vs. 'Demon Slayer' · 7:02pm Jul 13th, 2014
Source
Everything suddenly makes sense.
I am always amused, and occasionally annoyed, when Bronies hold forth on the subject of "canon." The word canon means an established rule; it can't really apply to pop culture except by way of strained metaphor, but if it means anything at all in such a context, it means something from an official source. Thus, Hasbro has the final word on what is "canon" in the My Little Pony universe, and Bronies' opinions matter not a whit.
Yet those who toss the word canon around seem most often to use it in the sense of, "Whatever I happen to like."
So Bronies have wrangled over whether Flash Sentry is a canonical character and more recently have wrangled over whether Princess Celestia's ill-fated love for King Sombra really happened, even though both come from official materials with Hasbro's blessing.
Source
Flash Sentry says, "Deal with it."
I have attempted, in my fan fiction, to treat all the official material as canon. There are limits to my ability to do this, of course: some of the cheap picture books churned out with grainy screenshots indifferently mixed with hastily written text are obviously not created with continuity in mind, nor is the Gameloft game, which freely alters details of the MLP universe to fit the style of gameplay. But the show, the comics, and the chapbooks are certainly created to be "canon," even if they do not live up to a pedant's strict standards of internal consistency.
As I've ranged across the expanded universe, I've come to the conclusion that the different branches of the franchise have been moving toward more cross-referencing; that is to say, the EU materials are becoming more rigorous in their internal consistency. The two comic book series make references to each other, even between different authors, and have made references to the Sparkling Sea picture book. The comics have referred to and even drawn heavily from Equestria Girls. The chapbooks have made references to both the picture book and the comics. All of them, of course, make references to the show.
For this reason, I've altered the way I treat the source material: formerly, I simply ranked the various branches of the franchise in an arbitrary fashion with the show at the top and the slew of vector art picture books at the bottom, letting the higher-ranking material be the final word whenever there is an irreconcilable conflict (of which there are surprisingly few). Now, instead, since it's clear the various writers are paying attention to each other and aiming for consistency, I consider more recent material to supplant older material. As for the toys, vector art books, and video games, which make no apparent attempt to be consistent, I consider them free to mine for ideas but safe to ignore otherwise.
But that doesn't make sense! Oh wait . . .
I'm on the subject of canon because, though this is old news, I just found out about it: Starbat, who is planning to adapt A Mighty Demon Slayer Grooms Some Ponies into comic book form, has asked his readers what they think of the possibility of such a project in light of the season 4 finale, which reintroduces Tirek to the franchise and makes it as clear as it could be that G4 is not in continuity with G1. I'm sure he would like others to chime in on the conversation, so you can take a look here.
Speaking for myself, the jossing of Demon Slayer got no greater response than a shrug from me. Blending two expanded universes together and keeping pace with G4's evolving canon was a fun and challenging exercise, but I never fooled myself into thinking that I was uncovering what the writers were really up to. I am aware of a fan fiction author who is absolutely convinced that G4 is in continuity with G1 and cannot be persuaded otherwise, but that author isn't me. I expected season 4 to joss Demon Slayer. I was only shocked that it took so long.
In fact, I consider the reappearance of Tirek in the season 4 finale less of a blow than the backstory on the magic mirror in the "Reflections" arc from the comic book. Tirek I could explain away if I were of a mind to, but the mirror's origin story I cannot. On a more minor note, the comic also requires me to revise my timeline; I had formerly imagined that Celestia and Luna ruled Equestria for quite a long time (a few thousand years, maybe) before Luna went bad, but the the comic indicates that Luna was already going to the dark side when Equestria was still a fledgeling kingdom and Celestia was a teenager—and Starswirl still being around indicates that "Reflections" takes place not long after "Hearth's Warming Eve."
On top of that, there's the scene in "Reflections" in which it is made undeniably canonical that Celestia is really Grogar.*
Dump him, Celestia. He splits his infinitives.
All these various events we know of from Equestria's past apparently took place in rapid succession in one or two generations. That sure screws up my imagined history, but oh well. That's "headcanon" for you: it always needs revised.
Anyhow, I would still like to put a final chapter on A Mighty Demon Slayer Grooms Some Ponies, though I'm not entirely sure what it would contain. What with a big prophecy and lots of foreshadowing dangling out there, I don't think anything could wrap it up both quickly and satisfactorily, but I have no intention of continuing the story past a final denouement, which means it might stand forever on a cliffhanger. Of course, the most important story arc is already finished at seven chapters.
But, in any case, head over to Starbat's place for the discussion.
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*I make comments like this to eliminate people with no sense of humor from my follower list.
Choose "satisfactorily" over "quickly" We have waited for months, we can wait some more.
2280667
I was unclear. I meant "quickly" in the sense of "in one chapter" rather than in the sense of "soon."
2280673 same thing. You were planning a sequel anyway, so you can afford to leave some loose ends as long as you know in advance what to do with them.
I see the questionable use of "canon" as linguistic drift, much like how "soon" used to mean "now," but people kept saying they'd do something soon and, well... yeah.
As for the matter of trying to incorporate as much of the official material as you can, I continue to be impressed by your dedication even as I question its necessity. Still, your stories, your choice. I look forward to however you choose to end Demon Slayer, should you ever decide on how to do so.
And remember, if all else fails, Luna can be an unusually sapient chunk of stabilized Smooze.
It depends on how "long" you mean by "long after Hearth's Warming Eve." The recent book, The Journal of the Two Sisters, makes it clear that:
1) The Three Tribes got over their differences;
2) They asked Celestia and Luna to rule over them (born as alicorns, but still without their cutie marks);
3) They are crowned as princesses;
4) And then various things take place, including the building of the Castle of the Two Sisters, negotiations with other kingdoms and peoples, etc.
Luna still is clearly a "teenager," whatever that means in alicorn terms, and Celestia not much older (and very similar to a young and adorkable Twilight Sparkle.)
So the "going to the bad" of Luna has to have taken place some time after that--long enough for them to have finished the Castle and for Discord to have taken over (though not necessarily for long) and been turned into stone.
Starswirl's described as "a young unicorn wizard" in the Season Four finale, but according to the Journal, he was also screwing around with time and age spells, so who knows.
But yes--that still leaves room for the events Sombra reminisces about to have happened perhaps a generation or two later, when Starswirl really was genuinely an old unicorn, and makes it unlikely to have been thousands and thousands of years.
It's VERY well worth a read. And I do try to incorporate as much of it and the comics in as possible. I don't see why writers would want to ignore it, but oh well.
An assterisk to weed them all out!
I love it!
Anyway, I do hope you come up with some resolution for Demon Slayer. I DID read the final chapter, and never understood why so many people got saddlesore over it. I thought it was a great lead in for a new story arc. Oh well.
The real problem with integrating the comics is that they simply are not written to mesh seamlessly with the show. I deal with this by following a policy of a la carte. I include the bits I want and ignore the bits I don't want. Ditto with the chapter books.
This seems relevant, The Timeline of Key Events in the History of Equestria
Also, remember this? Twilight having a seatbelt is canon.
I compared trying to make a combined continuity like shooting a moving target through a stationary target and hope the moving target stops moving once you hit it. You're bound to fail.
I got other reasons to have issues with Demon Slayer, but the continuity thing isn't one of them. As you said, it was bound to happen.
As for a resolution, I'm not sure what you could do. I suppose you could play the horse show straight. Though I don't know how "satisfying" that would be.
And Celestia isn't Grogar. She's the daughter of Grogar. Luna is really her half-sister.
2280847
Oh man, the Journal. I have that waiting for me when I finally get home, along with all the comics up to now and probably a chapbook. Yes, I'll have to take that into account as well when I can finally get to it. It's certainly as official as it can be.
2281012
Thanks for this. I'm going to bookmark it, though I see it needs some alterations: he doesn't take into account Princess Cadance's canon backstory from the chapbook.
2281012 Thank you very much for that link! I'm writing a Mirrorverse fic right now, and this will be very helpful.
2281078
On an added note, the Journal wrecks my history from The Mixed-Up Life of Brad, in which I envisioned that several generations passed before the three tribes finally got over their differences; I also supposed, as I think many Bronies did, that Celestia and Luna did not take their thrones until they had first toppled Discord. Thus I had the last commander, king, and chancellor throw their crowns at Celestia's hooves, and the last king begged for Celestia's hoof in marriage, but she rebuffed him.
(And she may or may not have also cut his tongue out, because I can't resist throwing in grisly details like that.)
2280847 It makes more sense that Celestia didn't catch Luna's slide to the dark side if she always was a little tempermental and 'goth' ever since they were teens. Also planning on a "mirror-ɹoɹɹıɯ" fic if I ever can get a good idea in my teeth.
(Hm. Mirror-Colgate - Vengeful Dentist, seeking to expand her magical power by collecting teeth from other unicorns.... Naaa, not quite right.)
2281131
Mirror-Colgate is just Steve Martin in Little shop of horrors in pony form.
2281119
They were already packing their crowns when they confronted Discord in the flashbacks in the show, so they were already ruling something, probably they saw Discord as an usurper.
I wouldn't dismiss the notion that it took a while for the ponies to learn to get along with each other just because of that, though, we still don't know how Discord came to be, but we know that apparently the CMC fighting with each other had a role in setting him free. Maybe something similar attracted him to young Equestria in the first place.
One of the things I thought of is perhaps Discord not the spirit of chaos but an avatar of it. After the windigoes were chased away by the Fire of Friendship they used random parts to make a power through which chaos could work in the hopes it would divide the ponies again so they could return to what they were doing. However, Discord proved impossible to control and started doing his own thing.
Here is the original source for the first image.
I haven't re-read the story, so I might get some of this wrong: I don't think anyone cared a flying holy mackerel's arse about the prophecies. For all the present day stuff, the prophecies and future forshadowing were all really just the long and painful echoes from the past. Yeah, all prophecies are at least a little bit self-fulfilling, but... Y'know, I don't care how badly it went last time, you can have Megan kick all the ass, just please don't make it that she has to do it all alone. Shouldering all the responsibility last time almost destroyed her, so f*#% what prophecy says and cheat with friends.
Alternatively, I'd suggest Megan Grooms Princess Celestia.
2281704
You know, I did think about this once. And we know from the comics that Celestia likes to be pampered at the spa just like any other pony.
"Oh, wow, Megan. You give an even better backrub than Sombra."
"Who?"
"Uh . . . nopony. Just continue what you're doing."
2281724
I was more going for the angle that they'd have stuff in common with the whole "one individual with all the responsibility" stuff... but you've just set off my shipper senses. Coherent discussion on the subject is now impossible because I'm stuck trying to think of a shipping name.
(Even the best shipping stories have little cheesy bits of bad shipping, and it's infected my braaaain!)
I have trouble accepting MLP canon because it isn't always consistent, even in the show.
Just rewatch the prologue for the season 1 opener and then the season 4 opener if you don't believe me.
You think they could do better than that if they cared as much as we are led to believe.
I don't really regard what the comics have to say, mainly because they are expensive... and I don't want to resort to 'obtaining' them online.
And comics don't show up on netflix after a month.
Uhh, what. This actually happened??
...
...I really need to go read the comics...
I welcome the leadership of Iron Will. Hopefully he can bring order to such dark and troubling times.
I consider your worlds as AUs. Why? Because the ponies act way different than how they act in canon. (Worshipping The bloody tryant, I mean, Queen Majesty.)(Acting more akin to earth equines, while Equestrians act more humanesque with only a few scant equine.)
Also, Celestia being Grogar....
Not trying to bash you or anything. This is your story. I don't see why you're frustrating yourself over following canon in an AU, but whatevs.
I personally use it as much as I like, but add to it in the more unimaginable ways. (Like with 'Love Needs No Reason' and Discord's history...You can check that out if you want, don't have too.
)
But with an AU, you can pretty much make up what you want, like you did with your stories. (And I did with "A Different Sunset". Maybe that one too, if you have the time.)
So, don't beat yourself up over it. Have fun.