Among Gods Update Post Mortem - Missteps and the Use of Magic · 5:35pm Jul 8th, 2014
This was going be another Alex Ross header at first, but I went with a more relevant image for the sake of this discussion.
Hey guys! It's great to see you folks again! Sorry for my sudden hiatus. As I've said before, life was in the way and it kept me away from my writing. Hopefully by now, we won't have that problem, but I guess we'll wait and see! That being said, this was an incredibly difficult chapter to write regardless for reasons you're gonna see after the break. Luckily, later chapters aren't going to be that way... hopefully. Hey, I know I've said it before, but at least I acknowledge it's a problem of mine. With that out of the way, let's talk about Issue 1, Chapter 5 of Among Gods!
Holy. Bucking. Crap. This chapter was a pain in my flank! I know I keep harping on this, but it really was why I couldn't get this thing out sooner! On top of helping expand my room with my family (which is a big project in itself), this single chapter was troublesome no matter how I sliced it! Every time I started to work on it, there was always something about it that I didn't like! I hated how I made Superboy speak up about his concerns regarding the Watchtower. I hated how standoff-ish and authoritative I made Raven when she crossed paths with Twilight. I hated how I ended the chapter with the total and complete cop-out with the bucking Spectre!
Yeah, I was overly critical working on this thing if you haven't noticed by now. As a matter of fact, that was really my biggest hang up working on this chapter. I couldn't really find any real way to make the conflict kick off properly between the Titans and the Mane Ponies. It was important I start with Twilight because of how important she is to the plot and pitting her against Raven seemed like a natural idea at the time. Hell, it still sounds like it could work! Maybe later on, I'll revisit this chapter and tweak it more to my liking, but I'd like to get this fic moving forward again.
Overboard criticism aside, there was still a lot about this chapter that I did like! Namely, Twilight Sparkle becoming Twilight Raven via the Spectre. While I did hate the idea at first, it does make sense in the grand scheme of things! I like to think that magic in the DC Universe works differently than in Equestria. While magic in Equestria is a natural universal skill that has various applications, magic in the DCU has several different forms of magic. For instance, the kind of magic used by Zatanna is a different form of magic entirely than say, Raven's Azarathean spells or the powers of Shazam. Equestria, on the other hoof, has types of magic that just about any unicorn or alicorn can perform. This is why even ponies like Celestia and Twilight can perform Dark Magic. It's such a universal concept that literally anypony powerful enough can perform it. That being said, it is possible to specialize in certain types of unicorn magic. Like how Trixie specializes in showy magic like fireworks or how Rarity specializes in gem-finding. Those aren't forms of magic exclusive to them alone. Anypony can do what they do if they practice on it.
The Spectre, the powerful being that he is, would know this fact. The rules and universal norms of Equestria don't apply to the DC Universe. This is a new land with wholly different laws and explanations to how its world works. Magic isn't the only "other-wordly" force at play here. There are also things like the Speed Force, the Emotional Spectrum of the different Lanterns, and even the genetic makeup of Metahumans! If we're going by My Little Pony rules here, I don't think any of those examples would classify simply as "magic."
To conclude, this was a rather bothersome chapter for me to write. There were things about it that I liked, though! I might look into revising this chapter some more in the future, but I would like to keep advancing the story before I do so. I would like your feedback on this headcanon idea, though. I think it has potential for further exploration, but I don't really know for sure. What do you folks think?
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading this funny little insight on Among Gods. I'll get the next chapter out soon! I promise!
- Nick
"If we're going by My Little Pony rules here, I don't think any of those examples would classify simply as "magic." "
Question: do you even have a working definition of what magic is to be making all of these grand claims you have?
2283657 An other-worldly force of the universe. Equestria's use of magic is more of a universal understanding with different subsets that all fall under the same umbrella. The DCU doesn't go by those rules. They have different forms of magic. The DCU has the powers of Shazam, Azarathean Magic, and so on. Equestria has things like Dark Magic, Teleportation, etc. that all fall under the same universal umbrella of Equestrian Magics.
That is really my whole point here. Magic isn't the only other-worldly force in the DCU. Like I mentioned in the blog, there's the Emotional Spectrum, the Speed Force, and even stuff like the Metagene. While those might constitute as "Magic" by Equestria's terms, that's not actually the case according to the DCU. As a matter of fact, if you took Equestria's version of Magic and placed it into the DC Universe, it'll probably be treated as a separate form of magic in its own right.
2283690
Do you know what irreducible means?
2284917 Something that can't be reduced or simplified?
2284947
Yep. For example, all attempts to show that Gravity can be reduced to particle radiation, I.E. gravitons, have not born fruit.
Also, do you know what an infinite regress is?
2284952 Why is this relevant to this particular blog post?
Also, do you know what an uncaused/uncreated entity is?
2284956
I'm getting to it.
2284965 Okay then... if you say so.
And to answer your questions, uh... something that infinitely regresses in on itself and an entity that technically doesn't exist physically?
2284975
"And to answer your questions, uh... something that infinitely regresses in on itself..."
Correct. Proponents of a past eternal universe (or more recently, a past eternal multiverse, which is really just a mother universe within which little island or bubble universes exist) essentially posit this in regards to reality and have the problem of there being a past, present, and future on such a view.
"and an entity that technically doesn't exist physically?"
Nope. An uncreated/uncased entity is, in essence, an entity that is necessary in its existence and does NOT owe its existence to some external cause, or is irreducible to some external cause. Put simply, an entity such as this simply just IS.
Once more, proponents of a past eternal universe or multiverse are essentially saying that said universe or multiverse is such an entity, since the biggest requirement of necessity is that it is past eternal, which is what an infinite regress is.
2285011 I see what you're saying. So I assume that you're wondering if the DC Universe and Equestria fall in line with one of these multiverse rules?
Now, with regards to magic, your definition that is 'an other-worldly force of the universe,' is telling, since it would imply that magic itself (rather than those who use it) can be reduced to material, energy, spatial, and temporal causation (which would include genetic and technology and the like), when in truth, magic in its greatest form, is simply the most direct form of will to power, irreducible to such causation even though its effects can be described in material, energy, spatial, and temporal terms.
Put simply, magic is either:
1. Thought.
2. Building destroyed
OR...
1. Thought.
2. Generation of energy beam
3. Building destroyed.
Rather than, say,
1. Thought and Metagene or BFG
2. Generation of energy beam
3. Building destroyed .
2285014
Nope. I don't like models that posit that physical reality is past eternal, not just because scientifically that's mighty iffy (and it really is), but because I have an a priori against such idea because philosophically, if you ever wanted a bigger proof for the Nihilistic denomination of Atheism than saying that physical reality just is and doesn't have an external, transcendent cause, I couldn't think of any. I have no problems with models that say that the physical reality BEGAN to exist though, regardless of whether that is comprised of a universe or a multiverse.
Plus, I know that both the DC and MLP: FiM realities began to exist, because I know they were created by folks like Lauren Faust, Bob Kane, Bill Finger, Siegel and Shuster, and etc, etc, etc.
2285075 But... by that definition, would things like the Emotional Spectrum be considered magic, even though according to the rules of the DC Universe, it isn't?
Man, this is confusing. All I wanted to do was make a cool crossover.
2285197
Well, no, because the emotional spectrum is comprised of energy and matter and thus is subject to energy and matter causation so much so that so that you can use technology, the rings, to access it.
Granted, that said technology works on bullshit science that's so shoddy that you might as well call it space magic, but that's besides the point.
The point is that, in and of itself, the emotional spectrum is not magic, though one could certainly use magic to harness such a physical force as opposed to the supposed technological ring that wearers use.
In other words, if a person is using magic to use the emotional spectrum, it follows:
1. Thought
2. Desired affect on the emotional spectrum.
If a person is using technology to use the emotional spectrum, it follows:
1. Thought and Ring.
2. Scientific and Technological Process
3. Emotional spectrum.
4. Desired effect.
Now, for the non Space Cop Green Lantern, Alan Scott, who uses a supposed magic ring, how are we to formulate if it is truly magic in this sense? For indeed, he too uses an item rather than something inherent to himself, and yet this item is said to be magic.
Well, in this case, if the ring itself does this without doing so reduced to doing it in a manner reducible to some scientific and technological process, if it cuts out the middle man, as it were, then yes, it would count as magic. Borrowed magic, to be sure, but still magic.
In other words, picture the steps for Alan shortened only to three:
1. Thought and Ring.
2. Emotional spectrum.
3. Desired effect.
2285425 Hm, I see your point. But I don't recall Alan using a particular ring to connect to the Emotional Spectrum (I believe it was the Starheart or something, I don't exactly recall).
But still, my point still stands. Equestria's magic is different from the various forms of magic in the DCU. If this weren't true, we'd see fillies turn into Herculean ponies at the shout of a word.
2285445
Wouldn't it be more apt to say that Equestria's magic is in many ways, less developed and less powerful than DC's magic?
2285445
Speaking of your story, when are you gonna post it!?
2285451 I was going with less varied in its forms and utility, but that works too.
2285453 It's still being worked on.
2285455
Except for the elements of harmony and the magic of friendship.