A word about horsewords · 1:35am May 15th, 2014
I've been on here a while. A looooong while. I'd like to think I've gotten better as a writer. In fact, I know I have. I look back on my early works and cringe, like many authors do. But, since I've returned from Army land, I feel I may have lost my touch. Heh, I know many of you are thinking what touch?. I think that sometimes too. But, I write this blog after my second miss as far as endings are concerned. Both fics that got flak for the ending, I thought were wonderful. The first one was The Sky Is Falling. If you haven't read it, I won't spoil it, but I personally loved that ending. It was so much more real than most shipfic endings in my opinion, but it collected a right many thumbs down for the final chapter. My latest ended fic, The Twilight Hours has also fell into this same category. Now, that's not to say no one liked the ending. Some did! But a large demographic declared it 'rushed'.
I realize it wasn't an extremely long chapter. The shortest in the fic by far, in fact. But my reasons for making it shorter than the rest was simply because adding anything else would have felt like useless padding. I don't believe in adding anything to the story that serves no purpose. To me, everything in that chapter was as I intended it. I understand there were some who were not happy with the ending, or felt it shortchanged them in some way. To them I am sorry. If you felt the fic was a waste of your time, then that is your prerogative, and you are more than free to tell others how you feel.
So now I come to the interactive part of this blog.
Where does the author draw the line between writing the story he or she wants to write, and writing a story that may not even be what he or she intended simply to make sure as many people like it as possible?
I ask this because Twilight Hours was one of the few fics I started at the ending and worked my way backwards with. I had the end before I even had a thought of this story. So I ask any willing to reply: Where is the line? Would you sacrifice something you truly love about your story because you know it wouldn't appeal to some or many readers?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, those that care to reply.
No. I don't write for my readers, I write for me. I may consider their opinions, or even change a small part of my story based on overwhelming negative response. However, I'd never change a significant plot point or anything I was attached to just to gain likes.
Depends. How much does the upvote button feed you. i mean you've got enough credit and watchers to take it or leave it.
The way I figure it, it's this:
If you have a story you want to write, where everything feels the way it should and all the puzzle pieces fit together, then write it, just the way you want it. If the readers don't like the way it's written, then that's their opinion, and the have free claim to show it however they want, be it downvoting, degrading the story to their friends, or leaving criticism about how they'd like it to be changed. However, if you like the way the story already plays out, and you enjoy reading the story yourself, you should feel perfectly compelled to ignore them. I'm not saying that you should ignore every bit of criticism, I'm just saying that the author's opinion should come first.
I hope this was helpful in some way.
I'm one of those who didn't like the ending, and I tell you this:
Write only what you want. Don't change your story just because you want your readers to like it. Write for yourself.
Now, on the other hand, if a great deal of feedback says a specific element of your story feels flawed, offputting, or in some way cheapens the story...it might be a good idea to take an objective, critical look at that point and think. See it from their perspective. Ask if you truly like it from the objective perspective. Only if that answer is 'no' should you consider changing your story.
There isn't a right or wrong answer here. Different people write for different reasons, as well as different audiences. However, my outlook seems to be the minority position around here, so I'll toss it out here, just so it's represented.
Personally, no matter how much I love an element of a story, if I think it will alienate any of my readers, I'll strike it down without mercy. That's because my primary goal is to entertain people, and every time a person comes away from something I've written feeling like they've wasted their time, I consider it to be a failure on my part. Of course, it's impossible to please everyone, but it never hurts to try.
That's not to say I believe in giving an audience exactly what they want. Rather, I give them what I think they'll like,
evenespecially if it's contrary to their expectations.That's not to say I never write for me. When I do, though, it's either to practice new techniques I'm trying to incorporate into my style or to push myself to overcome a stylistic weakness. I don't put those projects out for public consumption.
Anyway, getting back to the original topic, my advice would be to think about who you're writing for and why you're doing it. Once you figure that out, answering your question should be easy.
I would definitely say stick to writing what makes you happy. It's always a good idea to take criticism into consideration but following it to the point that it becomes suffocating simply isn't worth it when it takes the enjoyment out of the writing process.
You're writing stories and providing entertainment for free, on your own time. Lots of people already like your stories the way they are. There's no obligation to cater to people who think it should have been written differently, at all.
I write only for myself now. (Keyword now.)
The way I see it, as I’m the one putting in all of the time and effort, I’m going to write the story as I want and make sure that I am completely satisfied with it above all else. If you aren’t getting paid to write something (i.e. commissions), you shouldn’t hold yourself back.
This doesn’t mean that you should throw grammar, characterization, etc. out the window. On the contrary, you should always strive to tell your stories to the best extent possible. But it’s still your story, and no one should be able to take that away from you.
I won't make a statement on whether or not I liked the ending, but I will say this: reading it, I didn't understand that it WAS the ending until the Author's Note told me so. Take from that what you will.
Anyone who claims not be writing for readers is either lying to you or to themselves. If we weren't writing for our readers, we wouldn't be publishing our stories for them to read.
Anyway, have you considered the possibility that it isn't that readers simply didn't like those two endings, but that those were actually just bad endings? There's something to be said for doing what you want, but just because it's what you want to do as a writer, doesn't mean it will make for a better story. If most of your readers don't like something, you may want to take a step back and consider if the problem is on your end, not theirs. I'm sure you've learned that sometimes you have to cut things for the sake of the quality of the story, even if you personally really like them.
In the case of The Sky is Falling, if I'm remembering correctly, the problem wasn't that the ending felt more real than other shipping stories. It did, and that's a cool idea. The problem was that it didn't fit the tone of the entirety of the rest of the story and it didn't have any lead up at all. It just sort of happened there in the last two paragraphs. I'd consider that a bad ending, whether you liked it or not.
Writing for an audience is difficult, I have no full length story up but I do some small writing here and there for practice. It is nice to sometimes read comments and include reader's feedback especially when it comes to grammar and spelling and tips about the general style of writing but content, that's different. Catering to everyone means you've likely ruined the story you wish to tell, yes people can be unhappy about something that will not change. Everything has its critics.
To the point at hand, the first thing to keep in mind is who are you writing for, if it's for you then leave things as is. If it's for others than listen more to the feedback. If you can make who you write for happy then keep it, nothing is prefect and without its critics but as long as who you wrote it for is happy then good.
I will say that it did felt quick for the ending of Twilight Hours but I do understand what you were trying to go for. Its an ending like with The Sky if Falling, not what we may have expected or hoped for but an ending that does work and work well for what you're aiming for.
The only thing that matters is: are you having fun? Is there a reason you believe in for writing something? Always remember that it's very important for a story to come from the heart, and to try and express yourself more than to impress others. That said, if you're writing something mostly for the purpose of entertaining others, it's perfectly fine because you're still doing it with a goal in mind. It really comes down to how invested you are in what you're writing, regardless of who you're writing it for, and a story is only bad if you made it without any sense of drive or enjoyment.
I would personally say you should put yourself first, but always keep your readers in mind. They're not just your audience, they're your critics, too. It's a mutual relationship, and you need to try for some sympathy sometimes. But at the end of the day, if you think your argument holds stronger than theirs, then you've done nothing wrong.
You have 2000 followers and the stories you're worried about have 1500 and 1300 likes on top of a combined 30,000 views. Is it possible you're only reading the complaints of the people who chose to complain publicly, while the silent majority thought things were just peachy?
2113208 it is entirely possible. but as they say, the people who get noticed are the ones who speak up.
I make this one short, because I suck in english.
Your story, your rules, your ending.
If you like it and feel it goes according to the story them write it. The readers have to learn that not everything can go as they want, because they aren't the authors and they have no idea what ideas you planed.
Espero me halla dado a entender.
If you've written the story you want to tell, that's all that matters. Otherwise, you'll lose interest and simply not finish, which is worse than finishing with a blasé ending.
Write for who you WANT to write for; if that is for an audience, do that. If it is for yourself, do that.
The key is not to please everyone; if you want to engage with your critics, then what should really be done is to see what they don't like, why they don't like it, and then reflect and see if that changes your views on anything.
For example : Do they not like it because there is an unaddressed plot hole? Because they don't like your diction? Because they wanted the story to go another route?
In the first case, there's a good chance that yes, in the future that's something you want to strive to avoid, because an ideal story is free of plot holes, even if that is a goal we may never meet.
In the second case, well, do you feel your word choice was up to snuff? Maybe they have a point, maybe not; an author can usually tell when their word choice & grammar could have improved.
In the third case, well, that's the hard one. If I right a shipfic between Twilight & Celestia, and then Luna sweeps in and Twilight falls for her too, but in the end chooses Celestia - some may think she should have gone with Luna. And it's okay if they think that, because if the story is well written, it's done in a way where the path not taken is one that COULD have been taken.
Heck, take Regression, since it's a tale you are working on - a potential fork there is 'Will the Princesses get better?'. There are some readers who will only be happy if they do, and some who will only be happy if they remain horses. So, it comes down to what you feel is best for the story - be that writing for what you want, or what the audience wants, or what a friend wants.
tl;dr : Follow your heart.
It's your story so do what you want but at the same time take into consideration your fans(the people that read it) the tone(does it fit the rest of the story, does it make sense) and so on.
It depends a lot on why you're writing in the first place.
In my case, while I haven't written anything for this site yet (maybe one day), when I have written stuff in the past I've always taken the approach of 'If someone else was writing this would I like it.' But it depends. Do you care more about if you like it or if others do?
However regardless of what you decide remember... you can't please all the people. No matter what you write someone is not going to like it for whatever reason. If someone has constructive criticism then listen to them and consider their opinion, but in the end it's your story, tell it how you want.
In the end I think only you can really answer this. Do you write to please your inner muse? Or do you write because happy followers boosts your ego? Either is fine - and I suspect for most writers it's some mix of the two anyway.
It can vary quite honestly.
When I wrote with frequent regularity I had the story all fleshed out in my head. Usually beginning and end. And the end was usually a big deal for me, (I still want to write a fic that ends the way the 85 movie Runaway Train ends. If you don't know that movie or the ending I suggest watching it, it's fantastic.) so it's very hard for me to change the ending. Everything else though I leave open, sure there will be some key points and ideas I'd like to hit but it's happened before where I'll type a idea out and realize it doesn't work, or realize I can expand on it to the tune of 5-6 extra chapters I never anticipated.
A story while hard wired is still very organic and can change as you go along, that and also you'll get some feedback that will turn the creative gears some more and give you some really good chapters.
Everything is essentially subject to change without reason really.
If you want an actual critique, here's what I think you did wrong in The Twilight Hours:
You didn't provide enough build up in chapter 7 to justify Rainbow's condition. Yes, you mentioned something about thunderstorms and clearing clouds, then there's a sudden blinding flash. It's not a large mental leap to figure out that she got struck by lightning. However, you don't have enough buildup to justify it, so it feels sudden and unwarranted. You need to develop that section a whole lot more. Go into detail about how the clouds feel, the size of the clouds, some static shock that's building up in Rainbow's hair as she clears the clouds. There are plenty of things to describe here; use it to build tension and provide foreshadowing for the reader.
Chapter 8 is a little more complicated. The biggest thing is you introduce a lot of issues and then you just... blow them off. AJ is incredibly offended and hurt at RD's nosiness, but after a short talk with Twi, she's fine (that's why you're getting a lot of people who're saying this is rushed; you build this plot point up as the main drama of the story, and then it's resolved in 2 or three paragraphs). Then we have Rarity barging into the Apple home because Rainbow Dash is in critical condition and it's horrible and terrible and absolutely the worst possible thing! But when we get to the hospital, RD's pretty much fine. She's awake, she's lucid, she's not in pain; the only thing wrong with her is her eyes, but you never develop that plot point. After that, RD's reconciliation takes place with a lengthy paragraph of internal dialogue (exposition) and a couple of sappy lines. Yes, Rainbow's apology is heartfelt, but AJ's reaction is not realistic. For how much RD hurt her, AJ's reaction is basically, "Yeah, buy me a couple of beers and we'll call it good."
This is bad because you're resolving the main drama in three or four lines of dialogue, and the reaction is completely out of proportion with what happened. You can't just resolve the main plot of your story like that. You need to show us the pain that these characters went through, the pain that they're going through as they become reconciled. Not only that, but I can't imagine anyone reacting like AJ does. "You've broken years of trust and friendship by spying on me because you were jealous, but work a few days on the farm and we'll be fine."
As it stands, you resolve it like a kid's show does (I know, the irony is almost palpable): everything works out in the end and returns to the status quo. That's not how it happens in the real world. Things change. People change. That's why we're reading the story. To see how these characters change over time. What happened between RD, Twi, and AJ should definitely change how they act towards one another, but it doesn't. That irritates the reader.
So, in conclusion, you need to have more build up and foreshadowing in to precede Dash's injury, you need to justify the urgency that you make us feel when we find out Rainbow's in the hospital, and you need to show how RD's, AJ's, and Twi's relationships have changed as a result of what they've been through. That and you either need to cut out Rainbow's eye injury completely or actually DO SOMETHING WITH IT, because as it stands it's not accomplishing anything, and it's competing with your final climax for attention.
AT the end of the day i's your story bro, you decide what does and doesn't happen.
If they read a book enjoyed it to piece and got to the last chapter to rage (Like I did with Catching Fire) who cares, it was still a good book. They wouldn't go and sent hate-mail and things to the author so why should you feel bad for it
On reading your journal a little more closely, I found that the question I answers was not really the question you asked. Still, I'm leaving it up because it's relevant to what I have to say.
I feel like what you're really trying to ask is, How often do I listen to my readers?
Well, the answer is, How much do you want to improve?
If you're satisfied with where you are, then don't listen to them at all. This is perfectly acceptable, and a lot of good writers do this.
However, if you do want to improve then had better listen. Why? Becaus if you're getting consistent feedback on something, that means they're probably right.
For example, take Twilight Hours. You said you got a lot of feedback saying that it felt rushed. They were right. It does feel rushed, and I go into why it feels rushed in my other post.
This doesn't mean that you need to bend over backwards to accommodate your readers. You try doing that and you're going to end up losing more readers than you gain.
Essentially you need to learn when to listen to your readers. You needy to learn how to take a step back, push aside your emotions, and ask yourself, Are they right?
Sometimes they will be, sometimes they won't. It all comes down to what you think is best for your story. As a general rule, though, the more readers mention an issue, the more closely you need to look at it.
Of course, don't confuse fans who can help you improve your story with fans who want you to write their story. Look at Game of Thrones. The author will consistently kill off major characters, and this upsets people. Does this mean he needs to stop killing his characters? Quite the contrary, it means that he is effective enough at writing that people are having an emotional reaction to their deaths. Asking him to change this would be asking him to change his artistic vision. Your story, on the other hand (nothing personal), has legitimate problems with pacing, climax, tension, and foreshadowing. Saying that you need to improve on these is not asking you to change your story, your vision. They're asking you to give it to us more fully. These are not, We want you to tell our story. These are, You are not doing your story justice. There is a large difference, and being able to understand that will help improve your writing a great deal.
Of course, the best thing you can do to improve your writing is find a writing group who is willing to return your manuscripts dripping with red ink, but that's another subject entirely.
If you can't do something smart, do something right. Finish your stories where they should end, and not before or after. Of course, don't ignore criticism.
However, there is a big difference between criticising, and whingeing.
There's a saying I heard a while back that I really like. "No story is ever finished. It is simply abandoned."
In the end, you choose to abandon a story at a point where it seems that all immediate issues have been resolved in a satisfying or cathartic manner. Of course, other issues could rise from that, but that's a story for another day. But in the end, you choose to walk away at a certain point. Not someone else. Not even your editor.
That's not to say you should ignore any/all feedback completely. Most of it is given in an attempt to help you improve. It may make you alter some choices about the story, or it may make you hold stronger to them. But no matter what others say, if there's something you love about it, you should stick to your guns. Personal integrity is much more important than pleasing a slightly wider audience. Sure, maybe cutting out a slightly mundane ending that you really liked anyway and replacing it with a more exciting one at the prompting of a fan would improve the story. But it wouldn't really be your story any more. That said, if that thing you love receives consistently negative feedback, maybe some of your likes require re-evaluation. But that's not the case here.
Now, have you lost your touch? Tough to say. I don't like to say I've "lost" things, because lost implies it's permanently gone. That said, it would be silly to assume that your army-induced hiatus hasn't created a degree of rustiness in both of us, you on the writing angle, and me on the editing front. Looking back, there are some things I could have pointed out that didn't occur to me at the time. A few things, in fact, both in the last chapter and the one before it. I count this as a bit of a failure on my part. At the same time, I'm sure there are some things you could have adjusted. A bit more build-up here, a bit more foreshadowing there, perhaps a bit more tension here... but neither of us did.
The question now is, do you think this story's ready to be abandoned? Or do you want to delve back into it and improve some things?
I'll be standing by you either way.
Just my two, overly philosophical, rambling cents.
And they (and you) are wrong. You have a spark for writing and that's never been in doubt to me or many of your fans too I bet.
As for writing, I advocate writing to make yourself happy. Part of my enjoyment in a story comes from knowing the author enjoyed creating it. If I find out an author struggled and hates their story, I'm inclined to like it less. I know a lot of writers focus more on writing what will make them popular and if that works for them, great. I know I often don't read a lot of their works though. I find they often feel bland and boring, because trying to please everyone means you have to spread yourself thin.
As for writing backwards, maybe what could have helped would be going back over it from beginning to end to make sure that the ending still fit. I know for me, at least in assignments, If I started from the end and worked back, by the time I got to the beginning the ending wouldn't precisely fit as I'd have done things slightly differently. I sort of feel like that's what happened in Twilight Hours. The ending for me, didn't quite fit everything else. I still enjoyed the heck out of the story, and I still recommend it to people as a really solid AJ piece(which can be hard to find, since everyone rehashes the same ground), and even a shiptease of Twijack and AppleDash.
To be honest, the only thing this story felt to me was that maybe you're a little rusty. Do I still love it? Yes. Do I still want to read more from you? Heck yes. Do I think maybe having an editor could help? Well I think this for pretty much any author out there, regardless but yes. Having another set of eyes can help.
As well the old adage of you can't please everyone so just please yourself feels appropriate to leave here.
ill keep this short.
writing is personal and often therapeutic.
its your story to tell and frankly it matters not what others think.
just you.
the second you start writing for anyone other than yourself the quality of your works will decline.
Although I've never published anything myself), but my experience as Game Master thought me that trying to please others with your work more than yourself sometimes really gives you new perspective and lets you improve your craft.
One of my favorite RPG systems was practically forced on me by my players. I was so shocked I liked it after few sessions and by going along with things I considered pointless I found some very cool means of expression. I said that I doubt that anything will ever surprise me that much after trying it. That was before MLP of course.
Other times is destroys your whole motivation for a long time when you realised that you can no longer enjoy what you do, but everything is either great success or great learning right?.
And I liked ending of Twilight Hours (as well as the whole story - it's simple, and it's AJ and TS at their best).
Take care
It's a tricky situation. I wrote a story without intending for it to go any further; the readership requested two sequels, and got them. (I'm bogged down on the third. Overreach?)
Have a plan and stick to it. If you truly can't finish a story due to lack of motivation, kill it and move on.
I'm late to the party, but my feelings echo most of the ones I see here: Write what you want to write. It's work you're doing for yourself, not ad copy, not a commissioned chapter book. Sometimes stories and art aren't neat and tidy; neither is real life.
If a few people are unhappy, to hell with them. I'm a huge fan of your writing, and I trust in your decisions concerning your own work.
Otherwise, it's not your work, is it? That way lies the 4chan MLP adventure book...
Great to see you back and writing! Twilight Hours has long been one of my favorites. : )
Ah, yes... I remember scratching my head a bit at the ending of The Sky Is Falling. Its comes completely out of nowhere, and isn't much more then a footnote basically undoing the entire story. Of course, in real life that wouldn't be true, going through an experience like that has an effect on everyone involved. But its not real life, its a story and as a reader I can see feeling a bit cheated there.
Anyway, despite all of that, very few things make me lose respect for an author more then he or she changing (parts of) a story he or she like(s) purely because of pressure from his or her audience. If here is a line here, I'd say its somewhere around giving a story a comedy tag and then writing grimdark. It makes sense that an author wants readers, and its nice to always get positive critique, but in the end I feel that an author should write mainly because he or she wants to tell their story. If you change that story too much, especially if its against your wishes, its not your story any more.
I actually thought that the ending to Twilight Hours was quite good. Despite all they'd been through, despite all that Rainbow did, Applejack and Rainbow's friendship remains strong enough to survive... and Rainbow's learnt her lesson. I'm not sure that it really needed anything else.
I've actually got a little experiment in progress on that front - one of the plot twists in this story of mine caused some complaints when it was introduced. So I started a parallel version here - which is basically the same story without that particular twist.
I've learnt from trying to write them both at once - I've learnt that I can make a more interesting story than I thought without... well, without introducing the plot twist that led to the split in the first place. I've also noticed that the alternate ending has (roughly speaking) one-quarter the views, one-quarter the upvotes and half the downvotes of the original. This seems to imply that next time, I should stick with my original plotline.