A blank TVTropes page with no data in it. · 12:31pm Apr 21st, 2014
After nearly an hour of working my way around the site and desperately trying to figure out anything I could actually do (along with the means of not doing it or just terminally screwing up it), this is what I've got.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/TriptychContinuum
And that's it.
No summary. No tropes. No nothing. Because I'm still trying to work out how to add anything in a proper format. I got it on the main MLP:FIM fanfic index after some work (I think... it appears there, but with no formal edited work yet, there's no index entry at the bottom of the new page), but everything else is... *sigh* ...probably about twenty hours of intense study ahead. And that's just to create somewhere to stockpile the upcoming negative reviews. Putting an actual trope in might take a month. I have never been good at any kind of page construction and the more I look at the supposedly-simple instructions, the more intense the headache becomes. Checking source code on other pages just ups the painkiller dosage.
I'm seriously tempted to just give up right here. Especially since... well, creating my own tropes page (or the bare weak pointless beginnings of one) is arguably bad enough, but writing my own summary somehow seems worse, especially since I can't quite get the urge to use it as a bashing platform out of my head.
Put it this way: "Generally agreed upon to be one of the biggest wastes of time..." was the first draft of my opening lead.
So.
@#$%.
...yeah.
I could just leave it up there for a few days and watch it not gather anything, I guess. Or I could use seventy-two hours for completely screwing up one entry beyond all repair.
Or I could take this as a basic scroll lesson of "Never attempt a project on this scale before having a proper breakfast." Which is probably the right idea here.
But still... when someone tells you a page creation style is both truly simple and completely intuitive? Run.
ETA: Incidentally, since the name 'Estee' was taken, I registered as...
...PianoMurderer.
Never Live It Down, indeed.
Re-ETA: Possibly the single most pointless thing I can say for an open-edit site, but... anyone who wants to try adding a trope or more, feel free. I will appreciate every effort. A lot. And I mean a lot-a lot.
I've put in a few myself, added echo entries to the Souffle and Eclipse pages, updated my Christmas gift so that it links to the main group, and put a watch on the page. That'll probably be about it for me today, mostly so I can check back tomorrow and deject myself.
I've accomplished something!
(Sort of.)
Actually, what I've mostly accomplished is creating an intense personal desire to delete the entire page, cancel my TVTropes account, and pretend this never happened, since this will clearly never work.
But that counts, right?
...right.
Hmm. Well, I could offer a hand with the examples. Incidentally, what did you want to put in for the pre-trope introductory blurb?
The only practical way for a beginner to make a tvtropes page is to edit an existing page and copy its formatting.
But you can't just add stuff to tvtropes pages anyway, in my experience. You have to create it and wait for weeks while people criticize it and vote on it. How did you create a page without getting approval?
2031306
I will take all the help I can get. It has taken me very little time to figure out that I majorly svck at this.
I wish I knew. I'm still trying to figure out how to add this thing to an index after I've already added it to an index. (It now shows up on this page for the master list, but I don't know how the site wants me to add it to a bottom-of-the-page index. Yeesh.)
So far, trying to keep the personal no-calories attacks out of it, this is what I've got for the second draft of an introduction.
'A series of connected MLP:FIM stories written by Estee (the FIMFiction one, not the (link use for I''mAHumanitarian) offsite version) which, at first glance, appear to be set in the central continuity of the show itself, up through the end of the third season. They're not. The stories use the show as the base and background for this divergence, but gradually send it into an Equestria which has a few more shadows lurking in the corners.' And then maybe a link. List of included stories. Tropes To Be Found Across The Continuum. Tropes In Specific Stories. Gawds, I Svck At This.
Or something like that, only sounding more like a paragraph people wouldn't set on fire at first sight. *sigh* The lesson here is that some people shouldn't summarize their own work. I seem to be one of them.
2031337
...no idea.
Maybe the wait time is only for new tropes? I'm not creating any of those from scratch or claiming to have a new one. This is just a new page for trope collection as related to writings, and that probably falls under their No Notability rule. (I can think of few things less notable than this.) But for all I know, the page could be deleted in five minutes.
In my opinion, creators shouldn't really be making TvTropes pages for their own works. That seems a bit too much like self pimping to me: If a work is popular enough, the fans of that work will eventually get around to making and filling in one.
That being said... I'll have to reread Triptych, but I love your writing (tone and content) as well as the work that's gone into establishing the rules of this setting, so I certainly wouldn't mind adding things where I can. Some work has already been done on the page that allows for examples to be added first, with the introductory blurb to be added later.
2031337
I'm under the impression that it's creating a new trope in of itself that requires discussion. Creating pages for media to list examples on shouldn't require any discussion at all, no?
I've been trying to think of tropes which could go on the page. Some are obvious. Endangered Souffle' -- well, if the story is about Pinkie Pie vs. The Souffle', then I'd say this trope applies. A Total Eclipse Of The Fun also happens to be A Total Eclipse Of The Plot. I can easily mock myself with Insistent Terminology for 'field' and 'feel' and the like... but I may not have the right trope there. And so on.
I even just thought of one for CallBack/Brick Joke In the time between On The Application... and Orange Is The New Blue, Bon-Bon still hasn't admitted she's lost the book.
...oh, wait! I do have a new trope! Your Writing Style Makes My Eyes Bleed!
*considers*
Nah. That's probably just regular Bile Fascination.
2031373
*sigh* I feel like I can't put up much of an argument, but it's the vicious cycle: you often have to do some promotion in order to reach the point where you don't have to do much promotion. Or in other words, you walk the streets until you have people doing it for you.
...that came out wrong.
It just seemed as if either I started one or no one was going to. And at least now there's a place for people to look, not that anyone will ever find it and gee I seem determined to depress myself today. But if I get deleted for self-promotion, so it goes.
And thank you for the time you've already put in: I recognize the editing name.
I know this isn't going to be easy. And probably pointless. The main thing it's doing is making me think in/about tropes for an hour or three. Which is actually kind of annoying. For nexties, I could try to edit in Blessed With Suck for Joyous...
ETA: And this might be a halfway-decent Ignored Epiphany:
'"Get what?" a frustrated Scootaloo shot back. "That you wind up with a mark because you do perfectly ordinary things you're already good at and love doing, instead of trying cool stuff which nopony's ever done before?"
A long pause.
"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!"'
With most of the remainder of that story turning into Never Our Fault
2031397
Well, I certainly don't mind the page itself being created and left blank. Goodness knows I've wanted to add tropes for certain works, only to find that no page exists yet (and I'm too lazy to go look up how to make pages from scratch). It certainly won't be deleted for self promotion: I know I've seen far worse get away with it, as they even brag in the intro blurb that they, the authors, are the ones writing the page, as opposed to even attempting to keep a semblance of a tone of neutrality.
That being said, in my opinion, leave it to your fans from here out. You can announce it's existence in your updates *cough*, and that should send a few readers flocking to add to the page. There are better ways to self-promote than leaving a tvtropes page that others will have to stumble upon among the plethora of other fics that already exist. If you want to walk the streets, so to say, why not post in certain forums to try get some viewers or feedback? Spacebattles for instance has a pretty large rec thread, and posting in places like those means that people can also reply and point out your mistakes if they have problems with them easily. Also, with the changes to EQD's acceptance policy, why not just submit some of your complete shorts for the heck of it? The worst they'll do is reject it, and you never know, it might just work and get through.
One of things I'm wondering about for the page is whether to include a seperate part that lists the rules of the setting. You've certainly put in enough work into the rules of this setting that it feels refreshingly unique to many other fanfics out there, especially where unicorn magic and cutie marks are concerned.
2031441
I do want to add a few trope examples myself and put them on the example lists for the proper trope pages, at least to create the appearance that things are sort of moving. If nothing else, it gives me something to do on a rainy Thursday night when the words aren't flowing and there ain't nothin' on.
So I did two myself just now. It's... something to do.
Submitting to EQD... honestly, I'm still not sure where I stand with it. My primary suspicion is that I'm going to get rejected. A lot. I've seen some of the other authors who got rejected and the stories which were passed over: that list doesn't make me feel like I have much of a chance. Plus there's a certain loyalty to the site which is already willing to put up with this.
(Not that I know what their acceptance policy was before the changes. Or anything about how they work it, really.)
I know I've had a few mentions/discussions at Spacebattles, not all positive. (CDA. Any questions?) I've seen the referral links. But... this is going to sound weird, but I see joining up there as being a more egregious act of pimping than just starting a slow build on a tropes page. Listing tropes here and there feels like 'Yes, this too, and if you're curious, go ahead.'. Becoming a member on a site just to say 'Hey, look over here!'... um... I'm twitching in place just thinking about it.
It sounds like a good idea to me, which probably means I'm the last person who should be writing it.
2031460
Where I've been hanging out, it's been accepted that the criteria foracceptance for EQD until a while ago could be completely arbitary and bullshit at times, subject to very subjective reasons on the part of the prereaders. Still, they've recently revamped their selection system, and I've been hearing that much of the stuff rejected in the past has gotten through now. And there's nothing to be gained by NOT submitting. If you don't submit, your story never gets posted. If you submit, either your story may not get posted, or better it gets posted. Where's the harm in trying?
A tvtropes page? Well, if you need help filling it out, there's nothing like a good, old fashioned trope hunt.
Let's see what we can do here.
2031649
I welcome and am thankful for any and all attempts to make the page into a quasi-living entity. This may or may not include the semi-inevitable sabotages from CDA loathers. Which is sort of pointless because that's a separate continuity, but...
A trope hunt sounds kind of like a snipe hunt. Only with more ammunition and a lot of friendly fire casualties.
2031538
Exploding virus rejection letter?
Tell you what: if I get three or more total new chapters posted to existing works before May, I'll submit three completed stories of your choice. Just tell me which ones you think should go first and I'll follow that recommendation.
2031460 As somebody who has about an equal amount of acceptions and rejections from EqD, I can say that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the story, beyond a certain "it doesn't totally suck" minimum. What it's about is suiting the taste of the EqD pre-readers, which is partly a matter of luck for who you get, though it seems like super-conventional, predictable, ship-heavy stories are what they like best.
2031895
...well, I'm doomed,
2031898 Somebody went through and counted the ratio of shipfics to non-shipping fics on EqD, and it was like... 80% shipfics. I don't remember who that was, but I remember being pretty unsurprised.
I second sending stuff to EQD. Maybe I've just been lucky, but my experience with them has been quite pleasant, and has had very little in the way of absurd complaints. I did get the "please fix your hyphens and dashes!", but the prereader did say that was a small thing that wouldn't make or break the decision.
My stories have no shipping in them, and that didn't keep them out, at least. Idiocy is a powerful force, but I honestly have a hard time imagining anyone who is sufficiently interested in reading to be a fanfic prereader looking at your stories and saying "no". There's "different tastes" and then there's "I woke up with many brand new psychoses this morning and think the purpose of writing is corals circling the subway system hunting for backwards time." Anyone who avoids the latter category should be unable to reject 100% Move = 50% Fire.
There's also the Royal Guard, if you haven't already submitted there?
2032513
...
Again: doomed.
2032581
Yes, I thought I'd front-load the big hurdle. This is (or was), legend has it, their recurring obsession. And yet, in my case, it didn't stop them from accepting what they otherwise thought was an adequate story. I'd encourage you (even if awkwardly and ineffectually, which is how my encouragement usually works) to try :P
They're not rude about rejections or anything, so it's not a bad idea to give it a try. Just don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed.
2032625
2032952
In this case, I choose to save the moderators some work through pre-rejecting myself.
See? No one got hurt and the EQD supply of eye blood wipes is untouched. It was the merciful thing to do.
Truth: I can't change my style enough to pass. And add to that: won't. Because it would turn into someone else's work.
*shrug* Wasn't meant to be. Onwards with trope ruination!
2032581
EQD doesn't reject for the hyphens and dashes thing these days. In general, they don't focus as much on forcing everyone into writing in the same style anymore.
2031337 It's more a case of Tropes vs. Examples. It's bad form to create a new trope, in particular when said trope in all probability exists at least twice in the existing list, and for that, you're going to get yelled at. Making a page for a story is fine.
Creating a page for an existing story is fairly easy (ducks rocks thrown by Estee) if you use a plain text editor that doesn't do single-quote substitution (because Tropes uses single quotes, not left-right paired quotes) and copy an existing FanFic page for reference. In fact, you can accidentally create a page somewhere you don't want it, and there's no easy way (that I found) to delete the goofed page. (Guilty)
Start with the TVTropes text formatting rules and dump your "borrowed" page into a text editor so you can look back and forth between the guide, the raw text, and the finished page until it makes sense. (I used Magnetism when I created a page for The Traveling Tutor and the Librarian)
Then edit your borrowed page into your page using the format you just learned, keeping a close eye on single quotes and matching parenthesis.
Then, with great care, go look for your page just as if it were already there. This creates a blank page. Paste your edited page in there. (Yes, you have to register as an editor. That's trivial)
At that point, you have a disconnected page that nobody can see. It will get auto-removed (I think) in a week or so unless you link your page into the Fanworks page (here) by editing it (be careful) to link to your page.
Now add the link to the description of your story and you're done.
Just remember, anybody in the internet can go edit your page around, so it doesn't hurt to keep a copy of it just in case. On the other hoof, other people can go in and add tropes that you may not have recognized at first, which makes your page even better.
2034230
Georg did it! Georg did it!
That formatting page is a sanity-saver: thank you. And making a backup copy is a good idea: I'll keep one around.
At the moment, the work will be more of a piecemeal thing, because tracking every trope in every story is the work of days. I do also want (pipe dream alert!) other people coming in to add touches and tropes, and what there is of my ego is not about to start assembling any Crowning Moments subpages. (So far, including myself, there are three people putting in time on it, all of which is appreciated.) But the page already looks more substantial.
I did manage to get the page linked into the FanFic section, so it should only be auto-deleted if someone decides I'm a worthy exception to No Notability or a member of my own Loyal Opposition gets involved.
And I wish In Celestia We Trust had a page so I could take a Shout Out trope entry with Luna's Lottery Lunacy...
2031895
My experience with EQD during most of 2012 and 2013 was:
- They follow the Chicago Manual of Style religiously, and would never allow a story to use hyphens instead of em dashes, or uppercase for shouting (despite that being a common convention in print), or ellipses that don't follow the Chicago guidelines. The Chicago guidelines, unfortunately, are for journalism, and aren't always appropriate for fiction.
- They were overly-attached to "The Omnibus", which they used as a checklist. It's very good, mostly; but it has a large section on "Show vs. tell" that's... not so good. In line with a lot of advice given on the subject, and good advice for beginners, but still, over-simplified. Pre-readers would often object to the presence of any words ending in "-ly" as being telly, and ask for dialogue tags to be changed to body language.
- They were very strict about grammar, particularly about things like using punctuation to indicate the flow and rhythm of speech. They would not admit that semi-colons can be used as a super-comma in a sentence with hierarchical phrase structure. This was a blessing and a curse. They made me change things that I didn't want to, but I learned a lot, and decided that I had flaunted grammar too often. Sometimes they wanted the grammar in dialogue or first-person narration corrected, which is often a mistake.
- They cared about story quality, and would call out certain parts as problematic. I'd say they were right about half the time. Half is very good for a pre-reader. The problem was that they might insist that I take their advice, or (more often) I assumed they were insisting rather than argue about it, and that made being right only half the time a big problem.
- They weren't rude, but a rejection would often be written in a brisk, confident manner, as if they were unquestionable literary authorities, and this could be infuriating if they said something stupid.
- One of the worst rejections I got was a pre-reader who insisted that I add things to the story that were already in it. Instead of pointing out that they were already there, I resubmitted the story and pointed out the things he'd asked for, letting him infer that I'd just added them. I don't know whether he realized what I'd done, but he approved the story.
- The pre-reader's taste was a big factor for me. I think "A Carrot for Miss Fluttershy", "Big Mac Reads Something Purple", and "Corpse Bride" just got the wrong pre-readers, although "Big Mac" had problems at first which the pre-reader called out. Ironically, those are all ships.
- EQD likes humor, and doesn't really like dark fics but will take them sometimes.
2034555 (growl, grumble, complain) Ok, I'll set one up for ICWT and hat-tip L3. It takes me a little extra work because my favorite editor, Godocs (oh, wait. They only think they're god), always seems to mangle the left/right quote marks. Just want you to know you're an evil, evil person by helping ensnare hundreds more people in the Evil Swamp of TVTropes. (Go ahead. Click the link. You know you want to.)
2034723
I'm combining this with the Omnibus note and the simple fact of 'They tossed you?' to make up 'I still consider myself pre-rejected and the actual submission is just a formality.' Realizing the policy could have changed enough to let me slip through, but I really don't like my odds.
I may still send something in, but only to see how the dismissal comes out.
2034726
Yeah, like you're the first person to say that since I checked the
prisonershouseguests this morning. Let me know when the page goes up.ETA: For the record, I do intend to edit the TC story descriptions with 'Now with in-progress TVTropes page' and invitation to come join the open edits -- once a new chapter of anything goes up.
The policy has changed dramatically. So has the pre-reader line-up. They don't do line edits anymore, so you may even get thru with hyphens instead of em-dashes.
2034756 Le-GASP! They have bent on the sacred em-dash? Heretics! Scourge them from the Chicago Manual of Style and cast them out into the outer darkness where the illiterate masses wail and gnash their teeth. (It's also where all of the really good reading is)
Yeah, I sensed a Disturbance in the Force when I actually had three stories accepted to EqD within the same month. It will never happen again, but it made for a happy glow -- Until the daughter crunched our most expensive car (she's fine). Somehow the universe senses when something like this happens and acts immediately to balance the cosmic scales, I guess.
2034723
Yeah, my most recent rejection (and this was after their policy change) consisted of a long series of comments pointing out that everything I was doing, including using passive voice in places, etc. was "wrong" because it created a feeling of distance and disconnection... in a story about distance and disconnection.
It felt very much like somebody just going through their checklist of rules "show don't tell," "never use passive voice" etc. without actually reading and comprehending the story.