Dehumanizing Ponies, Part Two - Haaaaaaaaands. · 12:22am Jan 21st, 2014
Part One
Ponies don't have hands.
This is kind of a big deal. Pragmatically, it's difficult to see how a species lacking fine manipulation would achieve sapience, advanced tool-using, and everything that comes with it, but we're given that it's happened. So I want to talk about the implications of being quadrupedal and having hooves (even ones that can grip in a simple manner) instead of hands.
The first thing is that ponies can carry hilariously heavy loads, ignoring Big Mac's freakish ability to tow a house. This is actually reflected in the show by the sheer amount of transportation and cargo that is pony-powered rather than industrialized. Humans major physical prowess is in endurance, not strength, so we tend to need force-multipliers for strength first. They'd need them for endurance first - you'd really only need the majority of transportation and hauling for very long distances, and anything short of that will be pony-powered (or at least, will mechanize far, far more slowly). They'd need pockets/saddlebags far more than we do, because they couldn't carry things over distances except in their mouths, and that precludes talking or eating.
This means that ponies will generally organize around smaller town centers. Once it becomes larger than any given pony can walk through in a day, there's going to be economic pressure to settle a new area. And the economic pressure to develop a mechanized car is going to be very low. A mechanical solution is going to have to be better than both pony speed and strength, and you need all the infrastructure required to deliver fuel, and unless you're hauling something really, really massive you don't gain anything by it but less personal effort. And if you can afford that as an individual, you can probably afford to hire a service with some really buff ponies for cheaper.
Which is not to say there's never going to be widespread cars in Equestria, it's just that they really don't need it as much as we do. They do on the other hand need endurance transport more. To go anywhere but in town is either a multi-day affair (humans can go further a day than a horse!), or requires mechanized transport. Related, given that their general mode of transport is walking they're going to be in pretty good physical shape since there's relatively little to support a sedentary lifestyle.
Another thing is their quadrupedal nature means that they use their mouths as a toolusing, uh, parts. There's various possible implications to that. One is that, clearly, they aren't going to have the same revulsion to sputum as we do. It doesn't really show up in the show for obvious reasons, but so many things are going to be covered in slobber. This actually has two major issues - one is, you're exposing a mucous membrane to external stuff all the time (mouths are the most robust membrane we have though, they can probably handle it) and two is that you have a lot indirect membrane-to-membrane contact, meaning diseases will spread far more easily.
This could either mean that pony mouths are a very hostile climate to bacteria/etc, or that, if diseases do transmit more easily, sickness is a much larger deal for ponies than for humans. Now, given that the only time we've seen a sick pony was in Hurricane Fluttershy, and they put a huge chunk of the pegasus population in bed or the hospital, it seems likely that sickness does vector extremely quickly through pony populations. That means that there'd be a much stronger taboo against being around a sick pony than a sick human.
A weird side effect would be that they'd have strong preferences on materials for handleable items, given that the gripping surface is enamel (teeth) and also transmit to a taste organ. Pottery and metal, though not tasting of much, all have a pretty severe effect on teeth and the feel is not particularly enjoyable either. Plus, if you need to really grip it tight it doesn't work too well. Instead they'd want slightly yielding surfaces - wood or wrapped fabric. Equine necks are pretty powerful so that would do much to offset the lack of leverage an arm has.
Now, let's talk fighting. Horses have a very powerful kick and headbutt. That's what their general fighting styles will focus on, and I'd like the point out that unicorns already have a point on their head right where they can headbutt at maximum force. Given that unicorn horns actually seem to be relatively sensitive and the magic-generating organ, that's not how they're used now but in war ponies would certainly have pseudo-unicorn spikes. You don't really need to do anything for hooves other than clad them in metal. Quadrupedal also means you're almost impossible to push over. So pony martial arts wouldn't really bother with tripping moves, and instead would be all about quick precise motion. Speed over bracing.
Frankly most human weapons wouldn't make sense for them, even holding them in their mouths, because again they don't need strength multipliers. They need endurance multipliers. Ranged weapons are another thing entirely, and crossbows/longbows, adapted for pony use, would be far more deadly in their hooves because they have superior bracing for accuracy and superior strength for drawback. A two-pony team could practically manually carry and fire ballistae and a single pony, with a properly-designed bow, could probably consistently score hits at upward of a five hundred meters (human world record is apparently 700ish meters?) because they could use heavier arrows and a more robust draw.
Hm... Interesting, though for lighter objects, I'll point out they might even be able to grip them with their lips, depending on how they've evolved over time.
Also, how are you visualizing pony designed bows to work? Sit down on haunches, hold wooden part with forelimbs, draw arrow and string with mouth?
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Actually I expect they'd be mounted on a pony's back, over their shoulder (you'd wear a neck thingy to protect yourself from the feathering just like archers wore wrist thingies) and some sort of hoof-harness with a tiny pulley or even just a hook so they'd crouch, step into the harness, straighten and simultaneously draw. Quiver would be on the other shoulder. The actual mechanics of release would depend on how their 'grip strength' works, but it could be anywhere from simply letting go to having an actual trigger mechanism making it more like a crossbow than a longbow.
I can't think of any examples of an 'endurance multiplier', can you?
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Bikes and scooters.
Seriously though, no, endurance multipliers are a lot more difficult than strength multipliers.
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No kiddin'. Most mechanical tools (if not all) are force multipliers, or at least force changers (cranks turning reciprocating motion into rotational motion, etc). Besides things like batteries, flywheels or springs, there are not many 'endurance', or 'energy storage/saving' devices.
Also, I think Earth Ponies would at least develop some of the same tools as us, even if for slightly different reasons. For example- Earth Ponies, not having flight or magic, must have greatly difficultly with anything higher than they can comfortably rear to. Take Applejack, for example. Sweet Apple Acres has the classic two-story barn, the upper story being useful for storing hay out of the damp. Important when you are a small colourful horse, no? The question is, how do they get the bales up there. AJ is not going to be able to climb a ladder with a bale in her mouth, she's going to walk up a lightly inclined ramp. Or, more likely, haul a haywain up a larger ramp right into the hayloft.
Of course, it isn't also practical to build a big earthen ramp up to your second story. That's why Earth ponies would also develop the pulley. Notice that many homes in Ponyville have extend ridge poles. These are for hanging pulleys onto, for lifting heavy loads to upper stories. Although I doubt pony-pulleys would have as many wheels as ours do- no strength multipliers, the simple fact that (once you get a feathered friend to hang it) you can suddenly lift things above your head must be an enormous boon.
Oh! The steam engine, water wheel, windmill, etc, is an endurance multiplier, or at least an endurance saver. Can a pony run a gristmill with ponypower? Well, yes. Can they do it all day, every day? Well, maybe not, especially if they have a heavy demand to meet. The steam locomotive's use is obvious- as a long range hauler of ponies.
Notice that the only train we have seen is the Friendship Express. I think that Equestria's rail service mirrors the early years of our railways, where passenger service, not freight, made most of the money. Equestria, being a stable, rich, and wisely lead nation has, I imagine, a well-developed canal system. This made alot of sense before the steam locomotive. Although not any faster than your average wagon, your average horse could haul a much bigger canalboat without having to worry about the sorry conditions of the roadway. This makes long range haulage of goods cheap, if slow, and Equestria's economy is geared towards this. Their newfangled locomotives are not very big and judging by the twee way they puff along, not very powerful. With a long entrenched canal system, inventing a more powerful locomotive is likely not as important as inventing a faster one. (Interestingly, this power/speed debate happened on Earth, too. American steam locos, at least in the 19th century, had to contend with badly made, badly sited track and so built powerful, inefficient and primitive (if cheap, strong and easy to repair) locos that could handle those tracks. British railways, who had sunk huge amounts of money into their mileage could afford less robust (a relative term when speaking of steam engines) if faster and more efficient locos.
That Equestrian steam locomotives resemble the American 4-4-0 is likely only a stylistic choice, to ensure that US kids recognize them. Still, they do seem to have in-line piston rods, a very English choice. I always assume that Celestia's long-term outlook infects the rest of the government, so their locomotives are likely British on the inside- (well-designed, efficient, safe and fast) rather than American (powerful, inefficient, basic and prone to randomly exploding)
Long Post is Long
On the mouth-lips-tongue combination -- this can be remarkably dextrous, far more so than humans (who rely on our hands) realize. A gorilla, who is anatomically very similar to a human, can literally peel a fruit in her mouth, spit out the peel, and eat the inside without using her hands.
From what they show the Ponies do have a way of picking up and manipulating objects in their hooves, despite the fact that they are monodactyl like real horses. What's more, Earth ponies are the best and Unicorns the worst at doing so. The obvious possibility is some sort of array of gecko-like suction cups on the foot, perhaps supplemented by subconscious telekinesis. The strength and dexterity thus available is far inferior to that of human hands. (You can see the limitations of this sort of grip in "The Elements of Harmony," in which Applejack is not strong enough with her hooves to pull Twilight up to the ledge, even though she easily has enough bodily strength to do so).
We've also seen Earth Ponies (in particular) manipulating objects with their manes and tails. This seems to be a combination of muscular motion at the roots of the hairs with some sort of limited telekinesis. Applejack can wield her lasso with her tail, and Pinkie has accomplished fine manipulation with her mane (interestingly, after her experience with the enchanted comic book and the fictional Mane-iac, which implies that Pinkie may be engaging in her trademark Reality Warping here).
There are also anatomical differences between the Ponies and real horses which make it easier for the Ponies to manipulate objects. In particular, Ponies seem to have ball-and-socket shoulder joints and flexible wrists (primate features) which allow them to fully oppose their forehooves, greatly increasing the strength of their grip. The tradeoff is that the Ponies are probably slower and lower-endurance runners than are real horses -- acceptable, as with weapons and organization they are very dangerous prey anyway.
I wrote an article about the morphology of the Ponies here -- you might find it of interest. Essentially, I argue that while they are Equidae, they are not genus Equus, as their gross anatomical differences are too great, even as regards the Earth ponies, to keep them in the same genus as real horses.
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Yeah it's pretty clear that gross anatomy for ponies is not purely equine. They can be partially bipedal if it suits them, and the hoof/tail/mane-hold thing is...witchcraft. I'd attribute it to magic, which is probably what I'll address next time.
1741212
Consider the rate-of-fire vs. closing speed question in an engagement as an explanation of why we don't see firearms in an otherwise Industrial Age society. Here's my explanation, from Luna's POV, in All The Way Back ("Moondreamer" is an aspect of Luna who lived during the Age of Wonders, 4000 years ago, during the Ponies' lost Information-Age culture).
Basically, in real Earth military history, single-shot firearms were of limited use because they could only be fired once in a closing engagement. When arquebuses first came in during the 15th-16th centuries, they had to be protected by pikemen -- the arquebusiers would shoot and then retreat into a pike square to reload. The only reason why the arquebuses were effective at all was that their targets were not individual enemies but rather massed enemy formations -- such as the aforementioned pike squares.
Even with 17th-century flintlock muskets, which unlike matchlock weapons were relatively reliable and could be loaded every 30 or so seconds by a trained musketeer, the pikes were necessary to protect the musketeers. The key development which changed this was the 18th-century ring bayonet, which enabled every musket to double as a half-pike. When the ring bayonet came in, the specialized pikemen could finally be retired.
Once this happened, musketeers dominated the infantry. But even then, what would normally occur in battle was an attrition fight from a distance of 50-100 yards, with most shots missing, followed by a charge to contact. This charge could lead either to one side flinching and breaking, or an actual melee. In the melee, the bayonet and other personal weapons (such as swords, half-pikes, axes and the like) would dominate, because there was no time to reload a musket.
Now the interesting thing about this is that muskets could not dominate cavalry until the invention of the cartridge muzzle-loading rifle, and especially the cartridge breech-loading rifle (which was, finally, a rifle faster-loading than a muzzle-loading smoothbore musket). This is because cavalry could charge so fast that the infantry could only get off a few ill-aimed shots -- usually no more than one per man -- before contact, and cavalry at contact with lance or sabre have the advantage in melee over infantry. Unless -- harking back to the age of musket and pike -- the infantry fixed bayonets, formed a square, and essentially fought as pikemen.
All Equestrian "infantry" is really cavalry. Some of it armed with built-in-magic bolt throwers (making them dragoons) and some of it capable of personal VTOL flight (making them air cavalry) Oh, and with the troopers and their horses being literally one, since we're talking about brains as smart as ours directing equine anatomies.
When I realized that, I realized that firearms, short of something like late 19th-century bolt-action magazine rifles, were inferior weapons for fighting in Equestrian battles. This is why Luna is thinking in terms of something like the Springfield `03, M1 Garand, or M-16 automatic rifle.
1741583
Amusingly, I'm actually conversant with the issues of muzzle-versus-breech loading and the value of bayonettes thanks to David Weber's detail-OCD in his Safehold series. And somewhat less with cavalry tactics. So yeah, I have to agree that it just doesn't seem reasonable that you'd use firearms basically ever unless you have a mounted-on-the-back-of-an-earth-pony GAU.
Given how devastating a pony crossbow would be (they could single-pony mount and fire a siege crossbow, which is a OHK under any reasonable circumstance, with a range long enough to require a spotter) interpony warfare probably doesn't see many charges when you can run away to another position just as easily.
But, interestingly, the canon presented us is that pegasi did most of the fighting. Which, given how valuable air power is (and the ability to manipulate the weather!) makes a lot of sense. It doesn't matter how good your crossbow is if the enemy can summon up perfect cover and then rain lightning down on you. Mixed-race tactics are even more devastating which, again, I'll cover next time.
1741622
Polearms work really well for the Ponies, provided that they have a way to anchor them to their own bodies.
This is because the Ponies can run really fast for short distances (like real horses, though probably not quite as fast as real horses) and Kinetic Energy = Mass x (Velocity squared), and because a polearm concentrates that immense kinetic energy at the (literal) point of impact. A Pony could probably, easily, run a lance right through a foe in the charge, possibly with enough force to directly penetrate anything but actual plate armor.
Human lancers can do the same, but human cavalry is handicapped by the need to ride and to coordinate their motions with the horse's. Pony lancers are themselves both rider and horse.
The question comes as to how best mount the lance, which would have to be harnessed to the Pony as it can't use its forehooves to hold anything while charging, and the mouth-grip would be terrible for anything with which the Pony plans to collide (the unfortunate Pony trooper attempting such a hold would lose all his front teeth and possibly have the lance-butt jammed down his throat should he make contact; he also might break his neck. The two best approaches would be to mount it central forward, right over the breast bone on the strongest part of the Pony's anatomy; or offset in a shoulder mount. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
The advantage of a central mount is that it allows the Pony to use his maximum strength and momentum in the charge; it also balances the impact and allows it with a properly-designed harness (sort of a variant on a horse collar) to spread such impact across the maximum surface area so that he can survive the collision). The disadvantage is that if the trooper hits an immovable object and the harness breaks, the lance will be jammed backwards into his own chest, shattering his ribcage and possibly impaling his own heart! This, needless to say, would be Bad.
The side mount has the advantage that, most of the time, the momentum will be sufficient to penetrate all but the toughest body armor and drive the lance into the foe -- such a wound would normally be fatal or at least severely incapacitating, which is all that one really needs to do in battle. What's more, an impact with something the lance can't penetrate will tear it off the harness, rather than shoving it into the lancer's own heart! The disadvantage is that the impact is asymmetrical and will tend to twist the trooper's forequarters around, with possible spinal injuries if the attack is poorly executed -- I suspect the ideal attack would involve contact-then-twist-away, but the window for the twist would be a narrow one.
Slashing weapons could also work for en passant. These would be similar in many respects to Earthly cavalry sabers, though probably with a long-hafted, naginata like design, and could be wielded by mouth.
I've so far discussed Earth ponies, by implication. Here's Luna's survey of some of her own old favorite weapons, from All the Way Back: these are designed to be wielded by aura (unicorn) or delivered by airstrike (pegasus) -- as an Alicorn, Luna is capable of fighting as a meta-pony combination of all three types.
Her selection is eclectic.
1741622
Pegasi have astonishing strategic and tactical mobility. They can fly great distances faster than any Earth Pony or Unicorn can run (granted that Rainbow Dash's supersonic flight is a near-unique talent, in canon normal Pegasi can fly as fast as our propellor planes). They are also incredibly agile and tough fliers (protected probably by the same streamlining field that makes their high-speed flight possible), and can take off into or land from a hover.
Strategic mobility means that Pegasi could rapidly concentrate on or withdraw from any position, thus obtaining overwhelming local superiority at the point of engagement. A Pegasus equivalent of Genghis Khan would be truly terrifying.
Tactical mobility means that any formation or fortification would require three-dimensional defense. The Equestrian equivalent of a phalanx or pike square would need overhead spear and possibly shield cover. Even relatively small weapons like my postulated wing-darts would be extremely good at breaking up a formation if allowed to penetrate to inflict minor wounds on the ponies trying to maintain it. And a wall without roof or apertures allowing the engagement of defenders on that roof would be useless against creatures who could land by dropping vertically into their own body-lengths.
The big Pegasus advantage is mobility, the big Earth Pony advantage strength, and the big Unicorn advantage flexibility (since magic can be used to do things other than magic-missile). And yes, combined-race tactics would greatly outmatch any possible single-race tactics -- for instance, there are obvious ways in which pegasus units could transport small numbers of unicorns or earth-ponies to obtain the use of their specialized advantages on the battlefield.
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The one exception where firearms are concerned would be cannon, in sieges. Even a primitive cannon (such as a 15th-century bombard) can be highly-effective in a siege battle, provided that one can protect it against sallies and counterbattery fire. I assumed in All the Way Back that Celestia's arsenal includes an artillery park -- the thing is, these weapons would rarely be called upon for the kind of rapid-response action we've seen in the show. The existence of cannons are, heh, canon thanks to Pinkie Pie.
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1741225
I think the train system is worth mentioning. It's the only post-industrial tech that we've seen regularly. It supports the idea of small town network, with only a few larger cities. Regionally specific anomalies could allow for oversized city's to stay viable.
We also know they have "airships". (Random fact: I used to build blimps for a living, yes I have pictures to prove it)
Both these technologies allow heavy loads to be carried at reduced efforts.
Even the stage coaches are more are a work around to the endurance problem. More ponies pulling mean less work per pony, and teams can be changed out at regular intervals.
1741935
True! The team dynamic is far more important for ponies because they need to change off in labor due to the lack of endurance. Which adds another jot next to the friendship/harmony/herds dealio.
And airships make way more sense for ponies in terms of bulk transport than humans, since they can actually control air currents and thus most of the issues with lighter-than-air transport are alleviated. Plus, they're doable with a less complex economic base.
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Riverboats. If you look at the official map of Equestria, there are some long navigable rivers. The combination of riverboats and railroads for heavy hauling, with airships for relatively fast passage, and wagons to make up the short hauls, would allow a very complete system of freight and passenger transportation for the settled regions of the country. The gaps between rivers probably still have a canal system which is gradually being eclipsed by rail and air transportation.
Incidentally, the main problem with early airships -- vulnerability to storms -- goes away if you have not only weather prediction but even weather control.
Love your stories, and now your blogs: Very insightful.
Would you make a blog talking about whether ponies wear clothing now that they are sapient?
1741225 On the topic at hand though, I assume most inventions would be endurance savers, much like trains, wheels, carts,airships and maybe their versions of cars (flying Chariots with out pegasi?)
I would think they would make some type of running shoes for themselves to increase their endurance; like sports shoes or a futuristic version as in "portal" with the boots to alleviate the work, Something that can be used everyday then just a single event.(I guess that would be a Endurance Multiplier)
They would have similar tools and weapons to ours, but made differently. Such as swords would be mounted on the helmet,mainly because their neck is the only movable body part they can move due to their feet on the ground and moving. Its a lot more stable and wont get them to lose any teeth over it.
A hammer would literally be a adapted iron horse shoe, due to there flexibility and power.
1741178 1741583 With a cross bow or a gun Though they would need to have to be either mounted on them or on the side of the hoof Dead-shot style, It would also have a easy re-loadable feature like a revolver or a repeating crossbow. That would make 2 styles to wielding range weapons either handheld or mounted. Handheld for quick reaction,close quarter,small caliber, but sloppy aiming. Mounted for large caliber,stable aiming,and better range, but cripple flexibility with it.Kinda like a tank can't wip around its turrent to shoot the guy behind him (it takes time), with a handheld weapon you can do a trick shot over your shoulder to get the guy or wip around faster if needed to.
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A sword would probably be mounted in place of or over a horn.
Also, someone else in the discussion gave a fairly good analysis of why gun tech may not have gotten far enough off the ground to see widespread military use (mostly because primitive guns aren't good enough against highly mobile foes to be adopted and then improved), with the exception of canons to demolish fortified positions.
I don't completely agree with the part about gripping tools for one simple reason: lips.
We humans do hold a large assortment of items in our mouths, from pacifiers as babies to every kind of tobacco conveying contraption, passing through drinking aids (straws), musical instruments, and even some kinds of weapons (blowpipes and related air-powered ones). Granted, we do use our hands to stabilize most of those things, but a flexible neck mount could be used to the same effect.
We typically don't use teeth to hold those, but instead our lips, which are extremely dexterous.
Now, while I don't know how dexterous a horse's lips are, I do think that a race of talking ponies, and able to convey a huge number of emotions through their mouth shape to boot, would have lips as dexterous as our own.
The end result is that tools for use in the mouths would likely be divided into two kinds: the ones meant to be used with the teeth, which would work as you described above; and the ones meant to be used with the lips, the ones that require more dexterity than strength, for whom the preference in material would likely be something smooth (so as to not hurt the lips) and not pliable (as the lips themselves give way to conform with the tool).
1741673
A central mounted lance could be attached either above or below the pony's body, allowing it to break away in a failed collision without seriously injuring the pony. The upper mount would likely be easier to aim, but it would drastically reduce the pony's neck and head movement.
But the fixed mount has another huge drawback regardless of where it's mounted: on a successful attack - or an unsuccessful one that hits a pliable surface - the opponent is pinned to the lance, rendering both attacker and target immobile and making the attacker an easy target.
The Dragonlance series tackles a similar issue; a lance used from dragonback has to convey the dragon's momentum in order to be useful, but no human can possibly hope to hold the lance in that situation. The way that book series solves this problem is by attaching the lance to the saddle through a special, highly resistant ball joint with a locking device; the human points the lance, locks it before impact, and can otherwise move and twist the lance to lose the pinned opponent before it drags his own dragon down.
A similar device might be used for pony jousting; the lance might be attached to a harness through some contraption that allowed the pony to move the lance by moving his neck and lock it in place on command.
It always bugged me how little attention do even excellent adventure stories pay to the mechanics of quadrupedal travel. Daily travel distances, speed and endurance should be very different for ponies than for humans. Such details may seem small, but they will start breaking your immersion as soon as you start paying attention to them.
Another thought - what about horseshoes? Ponies seem to be using them in a same way that humans utilize regular footwear. The difference is that horseshoes are not optional like clothes, they serve a practical purpose of preventing injury to one's hooves when walking on hard surfaces. Living in big cities with paved streets like Manehatten and Canterlot should make horseshoes mandatory. What about country ponies, who can may have no reason to own them? Guess they just have to deal with it.
I vaguely remember reading something about the horses being able to hold items in their mouth without salivating.
The major problem with taking the 'sentients lacking hands' aspect seriously is that the design of all daily items we've seen ponies using on screen is in no way fit for a species that is supposed to operate them using hooves and mouth. Cups, knives, chairs, coaches... Heck, even books! All of them are built to be immediately recognizable, not to be used comfortably. What changes should be made to adapt them for ponies?
- Add large horizontal handles for holding objects in the mouth, especially when handling heavy, hot or otherwise hazardous materials
- Earth pony design should shift towards using flat surfaces and angular forms instead of curves or circular shapes to make easier operating objects with hooves. Unicorn design will probably go in the opposite direction out of pure elitism.
- Some kind of hoof claw-like grips?
- Backrests on chairs and coaches serve absolutely no purpose for ponies
- Door knobs were designed by unicorn conspiracy! I think, there was even a fic based on this idea.
A pony cannot reasonably brush her own mane, can she? Given their obsession with personal hygiene, it can turn brushing into a ritual between family or close friends. see: Japan and ear picking Turning toy marketing bullshit into a basis for worldbuilding? Sure, why not?
Is there any reason why the pony combat should not be completely dominated by unicorns using levitating blades? Pure blade, without guard or handle, designed specifically to be operated with telekinesis. Such weapon should have speed and precision unmatched by anything else. Additionally, skilled unicorns would not be limited to a single blade.
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Magic would also provide the lift needed to keep the balloons from getting big enough to eclipse whole towns.
Also:
Little homework, and it looks like 50 miles is considered maximum safe distance to ride a horse that are used to it, 30 if their not. But they can't do that every day. Three days of that, and they're done; you need to rest them for a few days--check their hooves, ect.
Certain breeds, in peek condition, can do 100 miles, but then there done for a day or two.
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That's 14 to 16 hand horses. 7 hand ponies will have only a quarter of their stride, and probably a third of their distance. So, super-runner earth pony will probably give out at about 35-40 miles: average-Jo pony would rather not deal with more than 10 miles.
Your average hobby runner, or sprinter, would scare ponies with their running abilities.
Any human in moderate condition can do 30 to 40 miles a day, every day. As long as the food and water is there to keep you going.
188.27 miles being the human record for distance in one day.
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What about the case when a horse is traveling without a rider? I think rider's weight would make a significant impact in this case, as it makes load distribution completely unnatural for a horse.
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Less than you'd think. Yes, you could take spare horses for remounts while traveling, but things like the pony express had fresh, rested horses at each stop. Literally nothing on Earth has the same amount of endurance as humans.
1742746
Remember that weapons have to transmit some fairly serious, pony-killing forces if they are to be useful on the battlefield, especially against foes wearing armor. To some extent, this is mitigated by the fact that one points the sharper, denser end at the foe and holds the blunter, lower-density end in mouth or harness, but -- particularly in the charge -- momentum builds to the point that the wielder could get killed or severely-injured if the weapon is driven against his own body. Skill helps: if one understands the forces involved, one can avoid putting oneself in positions where one is threatened by one's own weapons.
Now in canon we've actually seen some weapons being handled. The Royal Guard uses spears and crossbows, and the Crystal Empire had full jousting rigs with lances; we've also seen half-plate worn by the modern Royal Guard, tournament plate as part of the jousting rigs, and what looked like full war plate at the Castle of the Two Royal Pony Sisters.
Spears and lances are shown as carried off-center, the spears in what might be a light flexible attachment to the side of the body and the lances in a reinforced side attachment to the tournament plate. The half-plate concentrates on protecting head and chest, for the obvious reason that in a short non-battle fight mortal danger comes primarily from in front; likewise the jousting plate is very heavy forward because in a tournament (as opposed to a battle) nobody is going to get attacked from behind. The war plate is strong all around with the heaviest protection forward including full sleeves and greaves, the only vulnerable part would be from directly behind. The designs, allowing for art stylization, look surprisingly ergonomically effective.
The central forward mount is probably something the Equestrians wouldn't want to do save in protracted hot war against an enemy who was either larger or very well-armored or both (I'm thinking "dragons") because of the dangers to which I have alluded.
Yeah, you'd want a harness from which the lance could be easily detached. There's two reasons: (1) the near-certainity of the lance head being stuck in something if the charge is successful and (2) the fact that a properly designed lance shaft will splinter after delivering its head on-target (that's what "breaking a lance" means in the context of joust or battle). The combination of this means that in a normal lance charge, the lancer is now holding the stub of a weapon and must either get another lance or wield one of his secondary weapons.
Human horse troopers, with our dextrous hands (eat your heart out, Lyra!) would drop the broken lance and draw a sword, pistol or other easily-wielded one-handed weapon. Lances are fairly useless except at full charge anyway; in the melee they are so long as to make it difficult to keep an enemy from getting within their minimum range, and the rider can't get up enough speed to use them effectively.
Pony troopers could do the same sort of thing with a mouth-wielded secondary weapon, and their hooves are probably strong and dextrous enough to let them draw it from wherever they were holding it on their harness to their mouths (though it would be impractical for them to wield it in battle by hoof). Earth Ponies could use their great strength to deadly effect in close-combat with spiked sabatons (Nightmare Moon wears such in "The Elements of Harmony", and she was going to use them on Twilight in one scene!!!) (*) or slip-on hoof-daggers on the fore-hooves, or weighted hind-sabatons concentrating tremendous force for a rear-kick. Pegasi, of course, would not want to stay long in any one position -- their fighting tactics would be hit-and-run with repeated lethal passes and missile weapons releases. Unicorns could wield all sorts of weapons in their auras and would be very flexible fighters: of all the three kinds, they would be the most effective users of blades since they are not limited by bodily manipulation.
There's still the problem of the now-useless lance stub. Given that mane and tail manipulation seems to be canon, there might be some sort of quick-release system to drop the otherwise impeding feet of wood. I bet this jams on a semi-regular basis in actual use, though. Such is the life of a soldier.
One point about lips, teeth and tongue. These are great for fine manipulation, but any pony trying to use them to wield weapons in battle is going to have to do so very carefully, as all but the teeth are delicate structures, and they are attached to a jaw which the pony needs for eating and a head and neck which the pony needs for living. Biting, also, would be a serious threat with even the reduced jaw strength of the Ponies as compared to real horses (a real horse can rip your face off if it wants to, happily real horses rarely want to), but also something of a desperate close-in tactic since it involves shoving your HEAD right next to an armed foe!
Armor schemes are relevant here because of what they can't protect ...
Aside from the fact that no armor scheme is going to be able to completely protect the eyes (until the Ponies get back to electronics and high-density power storage systems, and start building powered armor again, as they did in the Age of Wonders), the fact that the Pony has to be able to move wearing this armor limits its thickness, and in particular forces the armor designer to concentrate on protecting frequently-threatened angles to the vitals (head, chest) with some armor reduction on less-threatened areas (back, side, flanks) and very little armor protection on the least threatened areas (barrel, groin, and immediately behind). What's more, the armor has to be flexible enough for the wearer to fight in, so it can't be all-over plate, it has to connect the plates with flexible joints of chain and/or leather. This unavoidably creates weak spots which a skilled opponent can exploit to penetrate heavy armor with light but precise weapons (hence the rapiers Luna saw in the Palace armory); or through which an unlucky combatant can suffer lethal damage through misfortune.
Human armor designers managed to cover these weak spots with surpassing skill, especially in the most expensive court armors which survive today as "Renaissance plate." But such exceptional armors were usually ceremonial (war plate versions of them existed but have mostly not survived since they were actually used in battle). Really expensive court, jousting and war plate was available only to the wealthy; ordinary knights fought in much lighter and less well-made war plate, and ordinary soldiers in half-plate or chainmail.
Modern Equestria has gone back to half-plate for the Guards, and very minimal armor for anypony else, because they are not in hot war, because modern arbalests are sufficiently quick-shooting and reliable to render full war plate not all that useful on the real battlefield, and because war plate is very tiring to actually wear. Human knights only wore war plate when actually about to fight a battle (they marched in dangerous territory in chain mail and in safe territory wore either leather armor or ordinary civilian clothes): since the Ponies probably have less endurance, they too would only wear armor when deemed necessary.
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(*) For that matter, the shoes we see all Princesses wearing on formal occasions are obviously ceremonial versions of war-sabatons. It you think about "court dress" in human cultures, this is not particularly strange: think of the ceremonial swords and spurs, in particular.
-- Twilight, kill them all.
-- Are you sure, Princess?
-- Yes.
-- Well, I'm convinced. You got it, Princess!
There was one less species in the world within a month.
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After doing some research, humans are faring better than I expected, but there are still some exceptions: Link
To quote one of the answers:
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Horseshoes: Yes, they'd be wearing them more in the city than the country because of the aforementioned hard surfaces. Real horseshoes are nailed into the hoof. The Ponies have probably long since figured out ways to make them easier to get on and off, since they are sapient and know what they are doing when they wear them.
They would not now be too expensive for even country Ponies to wear for those occasional trips into the city (and city Ponies would probably own more than one set). Things were probably different before their Industrial Revolution, which would have greatly reduced the cost of metal wares. Of course, back then paved streets may also have been less common.
I notice that the Ponies haven't gotten around to paving their inter-city roads yet. This is not unreasonable, as we didn't do that until we started operating powered vehicles on a large scale. The Ponies of the Age of Wonders had mass vehicle ownership, but the Equestrians don't. Yet.
They do have road engine versions of their steam locomotives, though. The Flim Flam Brothers' mobile cider press is an example of such a vehicle. Such off-rail steam engines really existed in our 19th century but never became popular, partially due to the lack of paved roads outside the cities. Steam tractors (the name "tractor" comes from "traction engine") actually preceded passenger motorcars in terms of popularity.
Very insightful points regarding ordinary tool designs.
Because of the sticky/telekinetic hooves thing and the ball-and-socket shoulder joints, they could brush their own manes, but not as well as we can brush our own hair (and remember, they also have hairy coats to comb!) So grooming probably is a more mutual thing with them, which would only make more plausible a culture in which mutual affection is elevated to a virtue. This would also explain why a small town like Ponyville would even have a complete beauty spa.
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Yes, the convenience equations are different for the Ponies. They can run faster than we can in sprints, so a mile or two is psychologically less for them. But they can't keep up even a walking pace as long as we can, so ten to twenty miles is a psychologically greater distance.
Hence the wagons, trains, boats, ships and airships, for long-distance travel. Even wagons work because of the mechanical advantage of wheels on a flat surface; the passengers can spell each other pulling, as we've seen them doing in-canon, and rest enough in between to be refreshed for continued travel.
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Unicorns can use another kind of defense other ponies can't: shields, both physical and magical. Even cloaks might be useful for that - something that I've seen in movies and games, but I'm not sure if it's historically accurate, though unicorns could use their magic to improve the defense provided in any case. Some unicorns trained in combat might even eschew any kind of armor, relying on their agility and physical or magical shields instead.
As far as weapons, if Applejack is any indication, an earth pony could be trained to launch small objects with great strength and precision by hitting them with their hind legs, as she shows as early as in Dragonshy. It's another tactic to keep in mind.
There's also the possibility of bombing runs by pegasi. Even if actual bombs aren't used, dropping something as simple as stones in great numbers, from outside the opponent's reach, could break the opponent's morale and inflict great losses. And pegasi seem able to keep even quite heavy attached vehicles aloft with little effort, as seen in Feeling Pinkie Keen, allowing them to bring plenty of ammunition along...
BTW, given the magical nature of the ponies, I would expect unicorns and pegasi to have endurance more on par with real ponies, but earth ponies to have greatly increased endurance - potentially greater than a human's - due to their magical nature. The labor division could even be based on that; earth ponies might be the ones doing the harder physical tasks simply because the other races are actually unable to do them, at least for any reasonable length.
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That's a good point, about the shields. Twilight Sparkle's was unusually-powerful even as a unicorn (she could cover a building), and her brother Shining Armor can protect a whole city. That level of shielding is a rare talent, but shields powerful enough to protect oneself are probably more common at least among professional mages.
Yes, you're right -- endurance is a specifically Earth Pony ability.
Basically, in Pony warfare, Earth Ponies would be "heavy cavalry," Pegasi "light cavalry," and Unicorns "engineers/gunners."
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Yeah, I wasn't expecting that so much. I guess I was thinking about races and movies like "Hidalgo" where horses help people go long distances.
Though perhaps they're more useful for their load bearing capacity than for the actual ability to walk a long time.
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P.S. - this post was quite interesting. Fascinating, even, to think about more.
It's mostly in hypotheticals, but it draws up some cool things to think about.
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You make a very good point about perception of distance. I think a HiE could have a little fun with the idea the their casual walking speed is in that uncomfortable speed between running and walking.
fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/021/2/a/small_horse_armor_doodles_by_1110soulite-d736a3q.jpg
This blog made me draw stuff .3.
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A. Sword helmet made for close quarter fighting not charging
B. a basic pony cup .3.
C. Axe helmet for close quarter Headbutting
D. Hard shell taco
E.Pony Pop in shoe (made out of whatever shoes are made of)
F.war-sabatons for crushing bodies
Unicorns would be the first sapient race, mainly because using magic would required a lot of mind power and knowing what their doing. Pegasi and earth ponies would be far behind brain wise, so I'm going to assume that slavery was involve. Making Unicorns jerks but this would help both pegasi and earth ponies catch up with their generation of foals later on.
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Axe helmets and hard tacos, the alpha and omega of Equestrian technology. Very nice!
We do know from Hearthswarming Eve that the unicorn/pegasus/EP dynamic was essentially castes. Or serfdom. Unicorns were aristocrats and artisans, Pegasi were military, EPs were farmers.
1744431 Hearts Warming Eve episode is a good example of that, a play hiding a uglier truth about pegasi and Earth pony alike revolting agaisnt the Unicorn masters. I'm sure The royal sisters sugar coated that event to keep it presentable after thousands of years.
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With our math here, Scootaloo's cross-country scooter ride is far more impressive than it even looks. Single-handedly hauling two other ponies from south of Canterlot, to past the northern boarder. in less than a day.
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Well, the gilligan cut leaves it ambiguous. She might have just rushed them to a train stop.
I don't have time for a longer comment at the moment, but these are great and I find the topic fascinating.
Ice arrows, pretty scary weapon of war.
A little late to the game here, but a thought on materials for things like door handles and such. While harsher being a metal, copper would also be a great choice as it tends to act as a natural bactericide, killing germs and bateria it comes into direct contact with, this helping possibly short circuit or mitigate a major disease vector
3621789 Silver has the same effect. I wouldn't be surprised if copper or silver were commonplace for high-use public tools...but I also wouldn't be surprised if antibacterial spells or something were equally commonplace.
3623723 all good thoughts. I did not know that about silver. Nice.
just wanted to point out, a human has pulled a massive passenger plane before, I'm sure a big horse like Big Mac could move a house......not as fast or easy as in the show but it is possible if you set it up to not collapse as it moves