Bronies are Posers · 4:21am Dec 2nd, 2013
Yeah, way to start with a polarizing title, right?
You know what though? I don't care, because I'm just calling it like it is... which is what I've always done since the day I got here. and if there's something I know about the human race, its that people hate the truth... especially truths that are inconvenient for them. And the title of this blog post is nothing more than another one of those inconvenient truths.
Why do I call Bronies "posers?" Simple:
They can't stand criticism of their favorite show.
Which means they don't really like it.
Does that logic sound twisted to you? Probably. Truth often does. Remember that a lot of scientific discoveries were considered witchcraft back in their day, and the principles behind them sounded like lunacy (I remember back in high school, telling one of my friends that according to the textbook, vision works by catching rays of light that bounce off everything and interpreting them for your brain.... that guy pointed at me and said "you're crazy!")
But allow me to un-twist it.
As a long-time gamer, one phenomenon I'm familiar with is the "justifying the purchase" syndrome. This is where someone just put down money for a game and he wants really hard to believe its good. Even when he puts it in the console, and realizes its crap, he still wants to believe it. And I've noticed one tendency these kinds of people have is that they try to pretend flaws are nonexistant, or else they twist them into a quality. The controls are bad? No, they simply take a little getting used to! The levels are badly designed? No, you're just complaining because its hard! The ending is disappointing? Well what did you expect, it's no different from Mario's "your princess is in another castle" spiel! (let's assume that Super Mario Bros is 15 years old when you hear this argument).
Now, personally... I enjoy games I enjoy, even if I acknowledge flaws. There was recently a news piece on a website about the classic fighting game Samurai Shodown, and how the "quick, mash the button!" sequence for deciding the outcome of sword-clashes was actually completely random. I saw people immediately lose respect for the game after reading that. Personally? It's still one of my favorite fighting games ever.
Now think about Bronies. What often happens when someone hates an episode, or expresses doubt about the direction the show is going? They're told "trust the writers!" Or else they hear accusations that they were biased by expectations or an inherent hate of a certain concept... in one hilarious example, I saw a review of Equestria Girls written by a person who had written fics that feature humans... and one of the commenters accused him of being biased against humans! Other times you hear that people "just can't stand change" or "went in WANTING to hate it."
These people want to pretend that MLP is infallible. Because if its fallible, then suddenly these people would have to question why they're watching a show that isn't absolutely perfect. Back in the beginning, there was a stereotype that people who claimed to like MLP were just people who were trying to be hip or cool or were trying to pretend they were open-minded by liking a show for little girls... and I won't lie: I feel like that's true for 75% of the fandom. Then there's the people who just want to fit into the community, and to be in the community you have to like the show.
Now, personally, I knew MLP was flawed from the beginning, and I know most things I like are flawed. I know the original Star Trek is full of Cold War propoganda, misogynist undertones, and the kind of stupidity that you have to be a headstrong American to take seriously... and I still watch the show and fully enjoy it, despite or at times even because I know these things.
Your average poser, however, has to pretend the show is flawless, because if they admit its flawed then they have to stop liking it. That's what being a poser means. There is no deeper element that connects them to this thing, they get no real joy out of it. It's all about justifying the time they waste, no different than the guy who pretends a bad game is good in order to justify the money spent on it, no different than the people who only liked Final Fantasy VII because everyone else did. Posers, the lot of them.
Posers ruin all good fandoms. I'm a huge fan of Dragonball, but most so-called "fans" have never read the original manga or watched the anime with its Japanese language track (the English tracks all have severe alterations), and end up missing the themes of joy, redemption and idealism and see DBZ as nothing more than angry guys yelling a lot and throwing Ki blasts at each other. So naturally the fandom became very idiotic and aggressive and just not fun. Then of course there's Final Fantasy, and I just mentioned FF7 fans... most of whom only bought it because it used to be the "in" thing and were impressed either because it was the first RPG they played, or else they just didn't want to go against the majority, and so again become idiotic and aggressive. And now we see it with Bronydom, with people wanting to believe Princess Twilight and Equestria Girls were anything other than lazy, corporate-driven cash-ins and instead re-casting them as brilliant writing. These same people would probably have defended the "dream season" of Dallas, if they were around in that era.
Posers, the lot of them.
Oh yes, I remember the dream-season of "Dallas". My mom was so pi... agitated about it.
At least now I know that my mom's not a poser.
About that other stuff you wrote, well, that's not exactly news. Every fandom has it's share of hipsters and generally annoying people. The question is: What are you gonna do about it?
I for one chose not disturb those guys. They buy all that brony-themed merchandise, like Rainbow Dash boxer shorts or pony-pint glasses. And don't forget the flood of T-Shirts!
I have yet to find one I like.
I love you and feel very much the same, except for a few things. I felt like throwing out my stance, especially since we've discussed this a tiny bit in that one thread.
I realize MLP isn't perfect in any way, but I told people to have some faith in the writers before Season 4 was released, since these are presumably people who have watched the show and liked some of what those same writers did with it. I knew that things could go either way, since the show has been pretty uneven, but until proven wrong, I was hoping they could pull these new developments off. I wasn't necessarily expecting them to be any better than they had been in the past, though.
Now that the fourth season is out, I can see it is pretty much the same uneven writing, but I'm reserving "the show has jumped the shark" for when I laugh my ass off as much as I did during the wedding arc. And I still enjoyed that, but the holes in that plot were a mile wide.
But I'm an MST3K fan. If this gets bad, it's still going to be great.
That's the main reason I was able to enjoy Castle-Mania, in spite of its many flaws. I was chanting "YES PINKIE" as soon as they showed some mysterious someone at the organ, and for all the stupidity of that whole reveal, I squeed like a moron at the thought that this is just a normal fucking day for her. Ignoring the lack of relevancy that she had, I'm pleased by the idea that she goes into an old abandoned ruin and plays a pipe organ, because everyone else is there and she wanted to see if she could play the pipe organ.
I loved the premiere because of Discord overall, and a lot of the hints of development between the girls. (That Frosting... and the letter from Pinkie. Even ignoring all potential clop fuel, that letter from the train struck me as so adorable and sweet.)
I still haven't seen Daring Don't, though I know about the weirdness inherent to that. I'm not really bothered by it. That thing gave me the best Rainbow Dash face ever. If only it was an emoticon.
I haven't seen Equestria Girls, because I just... haven't cared enough. I know that sounds dumb, but it's true? I just don't feel a need to see it. I may watch it eventually. I'm comfortable with spoilers, so I know what to expect, and I don't really care if it's quality? I don't necessarily care for some of the designs, but I would probably enjoy it. If nothing else, I heard the animation was very good, and I'm an animation buff in that respect.
I freely admit that everything I've ever been a fan of had issues, but that doesn't stop me from happily obsessing over what I liked about it.
However, that said, I get really tired of people who start griping over stuff, trying to ruin the fun for everyone else. I love critical analysis on the whole. Even just listing what did and didn't work on a personal basis is fine. People who start off by lumping everything into one generic comment of 'this sucks', or who have a hard time expressing what set them off, chafe me.
There are a lot of people I disagree with, and that's okay. I don't really take offense, except when it's the kind of people who get up on their soap box with only their anger and hatred to back them up. That's like pissing in my cheerios, and whenever I smell a hint of urine, it sets me off, even if that's not really where the other person was coming from.
Frankly, I blame my perspective on a roommate I was forced to live with for a few years. She was the spirit of killjoying anything that I remotely liked. She did it in the worst possible way too... She eventually made me feel ashamed for liking anything, and this wasn't even about stuff being 'babyish'; it was far more sinister than that.
Then again, she was one of those idiots who thinks they're smarter than everyone else, and who makes certain that you know it. Except they're painfully biased and just as illogical as the people they're railing against. She also never shut up about the things that bothered her, whether you cared or not, and she constantly talked about everyone behind their backs. I have no problem with venting, getting other people's opinions, or just sharing feelings, but holy balls was she aggravating, and I had to live with her...
She's one of the few people I've ever actively hated for any period of time. I can't think about her without feeling bitter, even now.
So anyway, we're technically upset by the exact same people, but for different reasons.
Of course they were cash-grabs. Princess Cadance was only an alicorn so Hasbro could stop making Celestia toys pink. Frankly, I'm relieved about that.
However, I think that Princess Twilight could be very interesting, and I want to see where they take it. Is it a great idea? Not really, but I'm down with exploring it. I like having more alicorns, though their introduction creates more questions about Celestia and Luna.
I'm just willing to go along for the ride, though I do wish Hasbro would meddle a little bit less. I mourn the loss of Queen Celestia.
I did take offense to the writers of EQG pinning the blame on the fans, if they ended up hating it. That seemed like a low blow. Do I hate EQG? Not really.
Did they do it so they could create a doll line? Yup!
Did they work with what they were given? Yup!
Did fans exploring humanization inspire them? Probably, since they saw a lot of interest, and realized they could probably make some money off of it.
To be honest, if I had continued doing anything much with my hobby of jointed dolls, I would have loved this development even more. Taking the heads off the Ponies and applying them to doll bodies might be the ruination of sacred idols, but pony dolls? Nah, that's meant to be tampered with!
I guess the thing is this... I just don't want to get myself that wound up over something that I enjoy. While I'm happy to speculate and debate at length, I don't want to actively hate anything. That doesn't mean I haven't gotten into heated debate before, and I do get sour over the execution at times, but on the whole, I'm just pleased that they're making more MLP.
1592473 I'll admit, I may be spoiled. Being born in 1983, I got to grow up with cartoons like He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, CyberCOPS, The Real Ghostbusters, Ducktales, Chip n' Dale's Rescue Rangers... and when I watch those shows today...
... Well, okay, except for He-Man, She-Ra, and Thundercats, most cartoons back then really kind of sucked.
But even so, I felt like they "sucked for the right reasons." It felt like their thoughts and ideas were in the right place, just their ability to execute those ideas was lacking.
Most modern television, MLP included, gives me the opposite feeling to be honest. Like I was pointing out in a thread a few hours ago, some eighties cartoons handled the same themes and messages that MLP did (particularly "some bullies are just scared of being bullied themselves") but they handled it in a much more convincing way.
While my unexpected loving of "Daring Don't" convinced me I will likely always love MLP despite its mis-steps, I do wish the writers cared more about their stories and characters instead of thinking they can excuse everything with "Ha ha its funny" or a mindless "sit back and have fun" attitude. I know the show is for kids... but then, He-Man is for kids too, and that the writers cared about the characters and world is precisely the reason I still watch it as an adult.
By the way, I recently found an awesome fan-game, called "Megapony." It's Mega Man... as a pony. Here be the link for all willing
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I don't know.
I was born in 1982, and while I loved all of those, I continued watching cartoons well into my twenties. I just watched a lot less as I grew older, partly because I learned what sleeping in was like.
I don't think children are inherently dumb, but they don't have enough life experience to be as discerning.
Even with the nostalgia factor, and some cartoons being more timeless than others, there really aren't that many cartoons that age as well as we think. That said, I think what I missed about shows of that nature was their rough willingness to engage with the truly bizarre.
It's much rarer for any cartoon to avoid really heavy-handed executive meddling. Going back to some of the true greats of cartoon history, it was typically more about pushing the limits and experimenting, and less about making money.
The stars have to align to get those kinds of conditions these days.
Of course, some seemingly unregulated cartoons were flat out awful. They really run the gamut, and the only 'average' cartoon is the kind that was generally forgettable. Heck, the only reason Hannah-Barbara is so well-known is because they kept tossing out hundreds of concepts, until they found something that stuck to the wall. And most of their stuff was based on something else.
Edit: I don't think I actually said anything with all that, but too tired to make it work. Long-story short, I love animation, and I agree with you, but I think that animation has always had the problem with flies in the ointment, since the livelihood of Gertie. It's more often the case of making money winning out over introducing quality. That was what set Disney apart way back in the very beginning. It's also what killed the Thief and the Cobbler. And executive meddling certainly killed Pinky and the Brain as well. I can't think of any older cartoon show examples off the top of my head, but I'm positive they exist.
Then again, we hear more about when people lay the blame elsewhere, as opposed to taking responsibility. Who knows how much of what ruined this or that was genuinely a case of intentional carelessness on the part of the creative elements? I like to think most people, who consider themselves artists or writers, take some level of pride in what they do, but there are individuals who probably don't.
1593690 Executive Meddling isn't the whole story with Thief and the Cobbler. It's creator was an indecisive workaholic who was always adding stuff and never satisfied. Really if Miramax hadn't stepped in we would likely have never gotten any sort of finished product (as it is, we've got the official crappy version and a torrent-able "Recobbled Edition")
But yeah, your last paragraph does raise a good question re: how much of it is really the executives? With MLP, its tempting to think that Twilicorn is all on Hasbro, but then Lauren Faust admits that she had always seen Twi as Celestia's successor. On top of that... well, I never saw the Bronycon documentary, but someone who did (someone who wasn't a brony, mind) commented that "her comments make me feel like she's not any particular genius, she just got lucky with MLP."
Again, never saw the Bronycon documentary myself, but some of what I heard Faust's ideas and plans for MLP were make me wonder if the show wasn't always gonna go the direction it did, as apparently a lot of what I don't like now (such as Pinkie being too "looney toons") were part of her plan all along, and she couldn't do them in season one only because Hasbro felt it would alienate audiences. Of course, then the fandom LOVED Pinkie and Faust got her way
That seems to be what's "in" these days though. Eighties cartoons, no matter how bad they were, at least TRIED to make fully-realized universes. But today the big names tend to be comedy settings like Adventure Time (which I hate, BTW) and in those, the universe doesn't matter as long as there's cheap lulz.
Oh well. We'll always have Battletech.
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From what I understand, Adventure Time has an over-arching story and world-building. It's just slow and subtle about that aspect. Then again, I love surreal WTF stuff, so I loved it from the very beginning.
I think maybe you're a little biased about the 80's stuff though, nothing personal.
Then again, I love a wide-variety of cartoon styles in general. Maybe I'm the biased one? I like anything that doesn't bore me to tears, and I love anything that I consider to be subjectively good. Pinkie being Looney Tunes and Twilight being Celestia's successor don't really bother me.
That said, Pinkie needs more Looney Tunes... they keep half-assing it by making her seem dumb, instead of 'screwy', so to speak (although the best weren't screwy, they were flawed in the best way.) Of course too far and she's Discord, but I'm not even talking about the gags. The best Looney Tunes were always about those particular characters being in those particular situations.
1600789 Personally, my ideal treatment of Pinkie is for her to be "cute," rather than cartoony. Some stuff like the limbs stretching or her showing up wherever Rainbow Dash is are fine, but I tend to get grated when, for example, she pulls a stealth suit out of nowhere or turns out to keep secret stashes all over Ponyville. That breaks my suspension of disbelief.
By "cute," I mean... well, in my fics, I tend to have her acting more animal-like than the other ponies, or else generally being more playful. Like pouncing, or playing fetch, or nudging a human she finds napping under a tree, then laying in his lap when he refuses to budge.... kinda wondering if having her sit up and beg would be going too far.
Actually, this picture sums up in a nutshell what I want Pinkie to be. In addition, so do this one and this one.
And yeah, there's a possibility I might be biased with regards to eighties cartoons, but part of it is also that I tend to like things I can take seriously on some level, as opposed to almost pure comedy. I mean, I'll watch shows like Looney Tunes or Tom and Jerry, but usually its just because I need a rest from something vexing, like lifting lumber or beating Myst, and at the moment anything that won't stress me out will do. The rest of the time though I like stuff that stands up to scrutiny.
At least with FIM, I can usually easily headcanon its more ridiculous moments, or just pretend its some visual shorthand and that the truth is something else (believe it or not, there was a cartoon once that used precisely this explanation to explain inconsistencies. That was the Battletech cartoon, which contradicted the novels and game books on a lot of things. Apparently the cartoon exists in-universe and is basically said to be propoganda)
That kind of makes me wonder... what would happen if the mane six became aware they were on television? (Well, first they'd have to ask, "What's television?")
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I admit that applying too much cartoon physics tends to distract from the rest of the somewhat more realistic atmosphere that the show has. My biggest problem is that I think Pinkie isn't as good as a background character, and serves much better when she is the featured protagonist. That's not to say that she should never take a backseat, but trying to include her into the fold is harder to do in a natural manner, without exploring other aspects of her character that don't come into the light as much.
Trying to toss in the random sight gags is okay, but she's too self-aware (she does know she's in a cartoon, as evidenced by her talking directly to the viewers a few times.) She's kind of like Deadpool, in a way. Unfortunately, he just seems like bizarre, painful nonsense without the proper perspective.
But even the Looney Tunes could be explored in a much more slice of life way and they were at times. The writers often lose focus of this, when trying to make her into an homage. They often do it without realizing what made those characters so delightful.
I realize the style of those shorts isn't for everyone, but they wouldn't be so memorable if the personality of the characters weren't so strong. The most forgettable shorts from that era of animation had lack-luster characters.
The best Tom and Jerry was slapstick at its finest, and that doesn't really translate into a series proper. Tom was so perfect, because of his sheer smugness before the inevitable backlash, and of course his memorable scream. Jerry was typically the clever victim in the same manner as Bugs Bunny, though he also got his comeuppance when it was warranted.
To be honest, one of my favorite recent cartoon series is The Venture Brothers. It's comedy based on tragedy and it has various references and cliches used to the best effect. They did have continuity through-out, and did a lot of world-building, which is part of why I loved it. Same for Archer, to a lesser extent.
The biggest problem about animation today, is that people are making cartoons for adults. Because that audience has an outlet to seek, fewer studios are bothering with keeping that same smaller percentage interested. They're only concerned about making certain the parents won't force the child to watch something else, and assuming that most parents aren't even watching what their children watch.
I might be wrong about that though, but the best animation did always target a broader audience.
My biggest concern is that the writers have tried to dumb down Pinkie Pie, when they need to do the opposite. She needs to be the most cleverly written pony on the show, in some respects, or she's going to fall flat.
The most cringe-worthy moments were the ones where she was treated as a running gag, instead of a character. And that's not how any of the best cartoons worked, in the entire history of cartoons. Comedy needs to be sharp, short, and catch us off balance with a truth that we never considered until that moment, but recognize as stemming from a very real place in the world around us.
That's why comedic characters, when played straight, are often tragic. The line is easy to blur when it comes to the absurdities of life.