To OC or not to OC, that is the question! · 11:52pm Apr 25th, 2012
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outraged fans...
Anyways, I 'm here posting to you loyal fan(s?) to ask your opinion on something that may be showing up in OWoC at some point. Koba and myself have been debating including our personal OCs into the story at some point. Now a few points first before you explode in rage.
These characters will ultimately have a large role on the story, but have very little actual time in the lime light. Figure less than 500 words for Koba's character total, across 300K+. As for my own, I'd probably be relegated to a side story. OWoC is about, and will always be about Twilight. We would just play a role in shaping the events around her.
I'd also like to point out that, while based off our personalities, they are completely OC characters (as far as one can be original in a universe made completely by someone else.) They are NOT self-inserts. They were not now or ever humans, and have full backgrounds integrating them into the MLP universe. [As to the reason why I use my char's name as a moniker, it because I don't want my standard alias to be associated with this. A closet brony if you will.]
I suppose the long and the short of it is to gauge your guys/galls/others opinion on having OC characters in the story. Would this be detrimental to your overall opinion, or do you think it a good idea?
Also, before I forget. Ch5:'Master Exploder' is at about 4K words as I type this.
Soon my pretties... soon...
-Dagg
Moment of Zen: When you really think about it, all the sub-characters are pretty much OCs too...
That word of wisdom at the end... It makes sense... I say as long as the story sticks to the original design and it doesn't suddenly shift focus I'm all good.
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It doesn't really matter
In my mind, there's no such thing as a substantial difference between OCs and non-OCs. They were all original characters at some point when you think about it and break it down.
The important thing is how well they're written. Nothing else really matters. And I trust you guys to write it well, so if you feel it will help the story, go for it.
-Cv
I'm god with the OCs as long as the story doesn't shift focus to them for the rest of it and then we're stuck with them. But if it will help the story then go for it.
No problems here.
I see no problems here
how does one play a large role in a story when only included in about 0,2% of the story? (500/300 000=0,00166667= roughly 0,2%)?
anyways, as to the OC question: im always skeptical to having OCs in a story, but then again; a lot of the stories i read gain a lot by having some OCs, either as a co-major along with one or several of twi, luna, and/or celestia for example or as a more background character. so im incredibly torn, in the end: if you think that having the OCs in the story will improve it; then fine by me
Ehh, go for it. I would have trended towards no a few months ago, but at this point they won't bother me at all.
As you say, any background character that hasn't had their characteristics established by the show might as well be OCs, even if they are community generated characterizations like Derpy or the usual interpretation of Lyra. So I see no harm in adding a couple more.
If it's written well, go for it.
I don't like the idea that they have such a large part with so little screen time. If you want me to love an OC, make me love it. Otherwise... Meh. I'm not terribly fond of a kind of puppeteer who we only see a few times.
Then again, as long as it's well written I'll have few criticisms.
Edit: Not that I think it would be a puppeteer, but it was just the first kind of character that popped in my head that has a large influence without being seen.
Edit Again: Another thought. I just feel as thought it would be difficult to make me like the inclusion of OC characters when it's all about Twi. If it were, for example, focused a bit more on the OC then it would be easier a pill to swallow. Basically, I just feel like I'm predisposed to dislike it, the way you explained it. I tend to glorify Twi and Celestia, so it's just so out there to have someone else shape the events surrounding them.
Just my opinion, and like I said, if it's well written I'll have few criticisms. My favorite fic in fact has a premise I strongly disagree with, but I adore the way it was presented and written
Moar editing: I should have thought, and then written a comment. Sorry for that.
I just want to not feel like I've read an epic story (which this appears to be shaping out to be!), but then cringe when there's some strange element introduced by a strange character. You scarin' me, that's all, with you talk about shaping events and whatnots.
Though, I suppose I should have faith in the authors. And if it was misplaced, YOU GET A DOWN-THUMB!
...
I have no problem with OCs. If they work with the story, and are good characters, I'm all for them. You can't relegate all things to characters from the show. It wouldn't make sense. Sometimes you have to have outside characters to fill roles. Throw 'em in, I say.
Do it, if it works and looks god, why the hell not!
The primary problem with OCs- and I admit, I have committed this crime myself from time to time- is that they are often fairly stereotypical. If the writer can create a unique character, then there is no real issue with having an OC.
I don't object to OC's, as long as they don't take over a story where we've already got established main characters. If the story calls for a character and none of the established characters work, go for it.
Do it, I have no qualms against it as long as, as others have said, it is well written.
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While I wouldn't like it all that much, I won't stop reading the story because of it.
My problem is that when you start including OC's and having them influence the story in any major way, you're going to have a detrimental effect on the main characters.
In the end though it's up to the two of you.
MOAR OC'S! I've always found OC's to be extremely powerful characters in their own ways if used properly. I usually don't like mixing OC and canon characters because it often leaves one set or the other seriously lacking but I would like to encourage you to try.
The sad fact is, sometimes OCs just HAVE to happen for a story to work. Background ponies just aren't sufficient sometimes.
86312
If that is the case then this post is misleading (stating that they'd have a major role in the story), I wouldn't at all mind them having their own side stories and having some (very) limited interaction with Twilight.
That said though, a lot of things usually go wrong if you try integration like that.
86312
. I just want it to be done well, if it is. The idea of "shaping the events" is just scarier than the way you just put it.
Welp, that sounds nice I think.
What I really mean to say is that there's nothing inherently wrong with OC, but the way it was stated got me all panicky and defensive of a story I am already really hyped about
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There are many good stories out there where their's characters that have a large amount of force in shaping events, but ultimately have little to no real scenes in the main story. Hell, read some of Tolken's works. Look at fricken Bombadil.
Life and everything in it doesn't just revolve around Twi. She is just a piece in the larger plot called life. Granted, she is possibly the most important piece on the board, but she is not the only one. Some of OWoC's long running plot will be Twi dealing with ripples from other characters actions. Actions that we may or may not divulge at a later date if the fans ask nicely.
As far as why I'm asking about OC's.... There are a ton (figurative and literal) of readers out there who loath OC char's and all that they are. I want to get a bead on how you all, the important readers, feel about it. Ultimately we are writing this for YOU, not us.
86330
First off: I do -not- loathe OC characters, so if you really want to include them, feel free.
But my point was: Yes maybe Twilight is just a part in a larger plot called life, thing is: this story revolves around all the troubles she has with becoming an Alicorn, all her thoughts strengths and insecurities, aswell as her friends have -major- roles.
Therefor, saying that an original character will play a major role aswell, kind of worries me, as you are basically saying that who they are and what they are will be as important to Twilight as (for instance) what Celestia thinks of her transformation.
And I feel like that's a bad thing for the story as a whole, that does not mean however that I am against you putting them in.
Just... try and limit the impact they have.
86330
I'm fully aware of the fact that there's more to things than Twi, but I'm probably not expressing myself clearly, though I will use your example to attempt to clarify.
Bombadil is completely irrelevant to the story, which is why he was left out of the movies. His scenes are also some of my favorites in the novel. If you do that in OWoC, then that's fantastic, and I fully encourage it. It does nothing, in my opinion, less than enhance the story. Gives it depth. Fleshes out the world.
If, on the other hand, they act more like a Saraumon with less face time.. Well that's considerably less interesting. If it's something like "Oh look, all of these amazing things are a results of what this OC did," it just seems silly, and takes away depth rather than involving them more in the story.
Again, this is just my opinion. I hope that's okay
I hope that what I mean is clear enough, words really aren't my forte.
Edit:
86348 Says it better than I do, basically exactly how I feel in regards to the "large part"
86355
Then I shall say no more, all I know is that: from where I am standing right now, and the story is what it is, it is currently not a good idea to include OC's (again, in my opinion)
If things change then my opinion on that probably will aswell.
Also, are you guys are planning on 300k+ words for just OWoC, or does that count the side stories as well?
Doesn't make a difference to me as I will be reading either way, just curious.
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So what your saying is that you don't disagree... your just choosing to reserve judgment till a later date?
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86379
Yep, that works for me
I enjoy that emoticon way too much.
I'm good with this. Just no funny stuff, ya her meh?
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Does not include sub-stories. Also 300K is a super rough estimate based on the fact that we have a ton of things to be written, and we're still in the intro bit of the story really.
86385 Sounds great.
If the role(s) to be filled by these characters are so important, then why are they getting so little time? That generally smacks of undesirable elements, even more so when dealing with self-inserts. You can qualify an OC as a non-self-insert all you want, but the fact that you feel the need to justify them as such would indicate otherwise. If the role(s) can be filled by a nebulous plot device character then why are you sticking your personal OCs into those roles? Is that not the core definition of a self-insert? Just because you change a few personality traits and make up a back story does not change your personal investment in the character. If you view the OC as "your character" instead of "a character that I created" then you have a self-insert.
Regardless of your intentions for this decision, you will turn off some readers by using a personal OC, no matter how well it is written. Unless you are doing certain styles of comedy stories, you should always be looking to craft a character to fill the roles you need, not recycling a pre-made creation that you have a personal attachment to.
Honestly, if you are dealing with a character that only exists for a 500 word scene, then it would feel like more of a self-insert/deus ex machina, especially if it has a massive impact on the plot. For the other character, if it would be "relegated" to a side story then you probably don't need it at all. I may be misreading that part, but it sounds to me like you would be making an extraneous story to fit the character into the world (self-insert alert). If you are simply shoehorning the character into a role within a necessary side story, then it is not quite as bad, but still borders that self-insert territory.
Just to be clear, I don't have an issue with OCs, only how they are used. Creating a character to fill a role is perfectly acceptable. What gets into controversial waters is using a character that you personally identify with as "your character" in any capacity outside of a very simple head-nod/cameo appearance (during which they should literally be nothing more than a background element).
My advice, in case it isn't clear yet, is to never stick your OCs into a story. I promise, you can always fill a role better by crafting a character from the ground up than tweaking or out-right shoehorning in an existing OC (either yours or someone else's).
One last point for this post, if you are so concerned about shoving your OCs into the story that you have to seek acceptance and offer justifications for why it won't impact the story, then your instincts are already telling you it may not be a good idea in the first place.
Do forgive me if I sound harsh, but I've never seen a personal OC improve a story. I'm sure that I don't need to remind you of how easily they can screw things up, even with the best of intentions.
And now for something, completely different!
When's the next chapter?
I have no issues with OCs.
I don't think there is any advice I could give either of you haven't thought of or know already. I'll trust you and Koba to treat the OCs and story right. 
86400
Huh.
Whelp I suppose there's no way around this.
You are correct.
Mark this moment in your calender, because I don't often cede defeat.
You bring up several good points and I feel new OC characters to fill those roles would immensely aid the story in place of needless self-gratification. I'll have to talk to Koba about it, but this probably means any personal OCs will be taken out.
However, the roles they filled will still be there in large. A good story doesn't tell the story of the world around a character, it tells the story about a character in the world. There are stories happening all around Twi during OWoC. Some will be obvious, some less so. I honestly feel that the best story-tellers can have you meet a character for only one scene, and leave you feeling that there is far more to that characters life than just that moment. Leave you wanting to know more about them.
I would explain in greater detail how one can have characters that play large roles in a story while be abstracted enough from the main char to not get much screen time, but in doing so I feel I may reveal more than I'd like on our long term plot goal. So for now I must ask you to just trust me.
Thanks for the informative post, it's the kind of feedback I'll always be looking for on my blog posts.
Now I'm going to go mull this over while I acquire some nutrient based edibles.
86444 Well, I'm always glad to offer advice. All the better if it actually helps anyone. I agree with your description of a character existing in a story instead of as the story. There is never anything wrong with a minor character filling a large role. Heck, Celestia is evidence of that. She is highly important to the show's plot, but only shows up for a few token appearances to nudge things along. As long as you aren't writing yourself into a corner so that that one little moment feels like a forced development then you should be good to go with it.
I'm very much looking forward to the story, but don't be afraid to take your time with it. Nothing messes up a story like rushing it.
I say this main cast is small
when Twi start be accosted by reporters
They will be OC
practically every background character that is not clearly said that it is from main cast is OC
so I see nothing wrong in placing your own characters in the story
I'm just not sure about the large role of these characters
The proposal makes me very nervous, but I suppose I have to reserve judgement until I see what you do with them.
Personaly, I dont see any problem with adding an OC to a story, as long as it's handled well. What I mean is, self-insert or not, I think OCs get a bad rep because too many fall into the bad habit of makeing them out to be perfect in most ways. And if not, they end up being Marry Sues. Even if the OC ends up playing a major role in the story, as long as they are handled like any other character, in a generaly realisting manner, then I dont see there being a problem. And let's face it, if all we did was use the already established characters, things would get pretty boreing. And in all honesty, the majority of background ponies that show up with major parts in stories are basicly OCs, as there's often next to nothing from the show to make up their backgrounds and perosnalities, so writers end up filling them in with their own ideas. Usualy all that's diffirent is the name and look are already established
by the way only 4K words at the moment?
average chapter in the OWoC is 7-8K
and I love this title 'Master Exploder'
As long as you just treat them like any other character, I'm okay with it.
OCs are best when they are subtle, unobtrusive and act to further the story of the main character, rather than overshadowing them.
In general, it's safe to say that less is more with OCs.
You don't want readers to have to memorize a dozen new characters to get through the story. There are a few fics like that on FimFic, and they rarely work, since it gets hard to plow through the story.
That's not to say OCs are bad. in many cases you need them. You just need to be certain you don't beat the readers over the head with them.
If the main character needs to know how to do a certain task, then it's fine to have them seek out an OC to get the information. Readers will probably look on the OC favourably, since they are helping the main character/story progression. Get the info and go, never see them again, good OC.
If, on the other hand, that OC keeps popping up with a sequence of increasingly implausible excuses to remain in the story, you may have a problem. Trying to 'force' the reader to like an OC is not a good idea.
Ultimately, this is part of storytelling. A story is about the main characters. If other characters (OCs or otherwise) have significant journeys of their own, it may be worth putting them in their own story...
The story already exists, but it's the authors task to give it form. As such you can twist and turn it to your hearts content, but as long as you stay true to the stories spirit, then no one can fault you. If the story in your hearts tells you that these ponies are crucial to its telling, by all means include it. If not, then why take a chance of taking away from the tale for a bit of publicity?
As a reader in love with the story thus far, stay true to its 'heart' and it will continue to be good, OCs or not.
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That said, I propose against introducing them by name until they introduce themselves. We as readers would not and should not recognize them at first... Or at least that's my view.