The Chatoyance Guide To The Ponyverses · 6:36am Apr 23rd, 2012
The Chatoyance Guide To The Ponyverses
I have decided to determine just how consistent the worldbuilding in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic actually is. I have made some interesting discoveries. One, the series is overall more consistent that I believed. Two, that the number of world-breaking episodes is relatively small overall. This has altered many of my attitudes about the series as a whole.
Episodes are here placed into one of three categories, Equestria Prime, Interstice, and Equestria Beta. The definitions of these categories follow. Episodes were rated based on script content, image content, and overall adherence to the categories provided. Some apparent inconsistencies may not be what they seem - for example, in the episode 'Feeling Pinky Keen' commonly considered the first 'worldbreaker', the apparent electroencephalograph used on Pinkie can be seen to be powered by steam, and likely counts as Steampunk, which is completely consistent with Equestria Prime (in the very first episode, in Canterlot, steampunk devices can be seen in Twilight's quarters). That said, when in doubt, such episodes were placed in the Interstice category because of their controversial nature.
Elements such as the above were closely scrutinized. Also considered were overall tone, the existence or lack of character development, violations of established character, and the presence or lack of sight gags inconsistent with the established world. Allowance is always made for Pinkie Pie, as it is generally agreed that she is intended to violate causality and reality as a the unique and singular expression of her character.
One thing that was deliberately not considered was my own, personal like, or dislike of given episodes. They were judged as closely as possible to the categories provided regardless of my personal tastes.
EQUESTRIA PRIME
Equestria Prime is defined as being a pseudo-Medieval/Renaissance fantasy world with some elements of Victorian steampunk technology. Electricity does not exist, but magic does. There is no large-scale mining or industrial blight. The world is self-consistent, the characters have personalities that grow and develop over time. Celestia and Luna have a divine, or at least demigodly status, and are capable of stellar and planetary manipulation at will. They are apparently immortal, and may not even be entirely physical - certainly they can become energy, transform into objects, become multiple independent entities with independent wills and possess many other god-level abilities. The focus of Equestria prime stories is on character growth and development as the various characters learn from the consequences of their actions within the context of their society. The world appears to have geographic consistency, and places and events can be mapped within the viewer's mind.
Episodes that take place within Equestria Prime:
01 Friendship is Magic, part 1 Lauren Faust 2010-10-10
02 Friendship is Magic, part 2 Lauren Faust 2010-10-22
03 The Ticket Master Amy Keating Rogers & Lauren Faust 2010-10-29
04 Applebuck Season Amy Keating Rogers 2010-11-05
05 Griffon the Brush Off Cindy Morrow 2010-11-12
06 Boast Busters Chris Savino 2010-11-19
07 Dragonshy Meghan McCarthy 2010-11-26
08 Look Before You Sleep Charlotte Fullerton 2010-12-03
09 Bridle Gossip Amy Keating Rogers 2010-12-10
10 Swarm of the Century M. A. Larson 2010-12-17
11 Winter Wrap Up Cindy Morrow 2010-12-24
12 Call of the Cutie Meghan McCarthy 2011-01-07
13 Fall Weather Friends Amy Keating Rogers 2011-01-28
14 Suited For Success Charlotte Fullerton 2011-02-04
16 Sonic Rainboom M. A. Larson 2011-02-18
17 Stare Master Chris Savino 2011-02-25
18 The Show Stoppers Cindy Morrow 2011-03-04
19 A Dog and Pony Show Amy Keating Rogers 2011-03-11
22 A Bird in the Hoof Charlotte Fullerton 2011-04-08
23 The Cutie Mark Chronicles M. A. Larson 2011-04-15
24 Owl's Well That Ends Well Cindy Morrow 2011-04-22
25 Party of One Meghan McCarthy 2011-04-29
26 The Best Night Ever Amy Keating Rogers 2011-05-06
27 The Return of Harmony Part 1 M. A. Larson 2011-09-17
28 The Return of Harmony Part 2 M. A. Larson 2011-09-24
29 Lesson Zero Meghan McCarthy 2011-10-15
30 Luna Eclipsed M. A. Larson 2011-10-22
31 Sisterhooves Social Cindy Morrow 2011-11-05
33 May the Best Pet Win! Charlotte Fullerton 2011-11-19
35 Sweet and Elite Meghan McCarthy 2011-12-03
36 Secret of My Excess M. A. Larson 2011-12-10
38 Family Appreciation Day Cindy Morrow 2012-01-07
40 The Last Roundup Amy Keating Rogers 2012-01-21
41 The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 M. A. Larson 2012-01-28
44 A Friend in Deed Amy Keating Rogers 2012-02-18
46 It's About Time M. A. Larson 2012-03-10
48 Hurricane Fluttershy Cindy Morrow 2012-03-24
49 Ponyville Confidential M. A. Larson 2012-03-31
INTERSTICE EPISODES
Interstice Episodes are defined as being capable of existing within either Equestria Prime or Equestria Beta. Elements of these episodes could be construed to indicate either story cosmos, or inconsistencies within an episode - that otherwise could be considered Prime - appear out of place or milieu.
Episodes that take place within the Interstice between the two universes:
15 Feeling Pinkie Keen Dave Polsky 2011-02-11
20 Green Isn't Your Color Meghan McCarthy 2011-03-18
21 Over a Barrel Dave Polsky 2011-03-25
32 The Cutie Pox Amy Keating Rogers 2011-11-12
37 Hearth's Warming Eve Merriwether Williams 2011-12-17
39 Baby Cakes Charlotte Fullerton 2012-01-14
43 Hearts and Hooves Day Meghan McCarthy 2012-02-11
47 Dragon Quest Merriwether Williams 2012-03-17
EQUESTRIA BETA
Equestria Beta is defined as being an alternate universe version of Equestria Prime. In the Beta universe, human-like, relatively modern technology exists with all that such technology implies. Steel girder construction and hydroelectric dams implying strip-mining and open-pit industrial blight. Electrical devices that could not be powered by magic are clearly seen. There is evidence of advanced technology not driven by steampunk means, and tropes within the story reflect the modern, human world. The focus of the stories is about comedy and action, with little to no character development and often direct refutation of events and character growth established in the Equestria Prime cosmos. Celestia and Luna are mortal ponies who may, or may not actually manipulate the sun and moon. They are virtually unable to defend themselves or their realm, and must depend on others for that task. They may be charlatans with little real power. The world itself is inconsistent and cannot be properly mapped in the viewer's mind - places and locations can exist merely to serve as a stage for a gag or joke.
Episodes that take place within Equestria Beta:
34 The Mysterious Mare Do Well Merriwether Williams 2011-11-26
42 Read It and Weep Cindy Morrow 2012-02-04
45 Putting Your Hoof Down Merriwether Williams; story by Charlotte Fullerton 2012-03-03
50 MMMystery on the Friendship Express Amy Keating Rogers 2012-04-07
51 A Canterlot Wedding - Part 1 Meghan McCarthy 2012-04-21
52 A Canterlot Wedding - Part 2 Meghan McCarthy 2012-04-21
CONCLUSIONS:
When compared with other television series set in fantastic or science fictional worlds, MLP:FIM appears to be of median continuity. Roughly one fifth of the series is questionable, and only one tenth truly breaks, or abandons the character and premise of the show. This makes MLP:FIM considerably more self-consistent than shows such as Sliders, Tiny Toons, the Transformers franchise, and Lost, but less consistent than shows such as Airbender, Lyoko, Voyager and essentially all of televised Star Trek (a remarkably consistent franchise).
I have come to the conclusion, based on my own analysis here, that although MLP:FIM does occasionally have episodes that destroy continuity, they are relatively few, and that overall the show deserves more respect, in terms of being self-consistent, than I have granted it. That said, the Beta episodes are jarring, and for some, the Interstice episodes are disturbing.
I discovered that several episodes I do not particularly like (Episode Zero, for example) nevertheless were not the worldbreakers I imagined, and that some I do particularly like (Feeling Pinky Keen and Green Isn't Your Color are examples here) were not deserving of inclusion in the Prime category upon analysis. (Cry!)
It should not be construed that inclusion in any category represents that an episode is considered 'good' or 'bad', but only that they adhere, or fail to adhere, to the category definitions.
My personal conclusion:
Twilight is right: organization is vital. By organizing the episodes of MLP:FIM according to the developing consensus of 'Prime versus Beta' stories, I find that I see a different picture than I felt existed. While I am far from the only person to complain about the episodes where MLP:FIM stumbles, and I fully understand those who feel that the stumbles are so egregious that they cannot bear to see any more, or that the stumbles have destroyed their interest, I am perhaps more pragmatic.
Theodore Sturgeon once put it that '90% of everything is crap'. If blatant disregard for continuity implies 'crap', then it is arguable that only 10 to 20 percent of MLP:FIM is in the crap category, depending on how forgiving one is willing to be, and on those grounds I find that the series is not as bad as imagined, though it also is not as good as might be hoped. Why should MLP:FIM be held to such high standards?
Because it is so good.
That said, I think the evidence clearly shows that I, for one, should not completely give up on it, at least yet. And there is always the surprisingly overwhelming bulk of both seasons one and two.
This is my analysis, and conclusions. I hope they might be of interest to you.
- Chatoyance
Miss Sparkle would be proud.
Glad to hear that you haven't abandoned hope, Chat.
A detailed analysis indeed Chaty... and glad to hear you're not giving up on the show. You are a fantastic writer, and not having you around would well and truly suck
I breathe a sigh of relief at this news. I was worried about you. With how defeated you sounded it seemed as if your character was going Discord gray. I am glad that enough spark is still there to keep you from walking away in that state. Welcome back and here's to the future!
Could somepony PLEASE post a "Slow Clap" gif? I don't keep a stock of reaction images.
Very good idea to place it to organization and analysis -- especially after all the back and forth that was going on in the last journal. I'm certain in my stating that I think everyone is going to be a little bit enlightened by this breakdown, whichever side they were on. I'm one of those that believes that 'Beta' is a perfectly acceptable diversion from the norm, especially in the context of the episodes generally being focused more on entertainment and comedy than actual dramatic storytelling (using the term 'dramatic' loosely). I generally don't like the insisting of either 'Prime' or 'Beta' being inherently better than the other -- both serve an explicit purpose as instances of the world, and they can indeed exist simultaneously in the same manner they already do. I'm sure that already there are authors that utilize both in the same kind of way.
I do not want to start any kind of argument, but I will put my own thoughts on things here, anyway.
1) I believe you have made a persuasive case about the general looseness of the setting, although I think this was somewhat intentional upon the studio's part so that they would have flexibility to change things, should Hasbro come down with more product requests or what have you. (It's still my theory Cadence only exists because of the Pinklestia brouhaha.)
2) I believe that all fanfiction writers, not to accuse Chat or anyone else of this, should never tightly moor their particular story to the current state of a given work by -anyone else- (unless it is a one-shot or short series), because the source of said work can, and most likely will, do something to deviate from where you'd like to go, and it would save yourself from some internal consternation.
That is why, for New Age, New Life, I, in my tags at least and I will probably tweak the introduction for this, establish that this is my -own- personal narrative using the show to date as a base. Or to put in other words, If I were the head producer, this is what I would instruct to have written and animated.
You didn't call Voyager consistent did you? It has good episodes but I wouldn't call it consistent or fully logical, even within the logic of the show. One of my favourite reviewers, SFDebris, often points out how illogical and terrible Voyager can really be. Link . Seriously, Janeway comes off as Psychotic at times.
And Neelix oh sweet Celestia, Neelix. Who can stand Neelix without getting the urge to punch his face? He's like Jar Jar Binks, only he's always there and always annoying. My favourite scenes involving him were in Meld where Tuvok strangles him Link & in The Thaw where Everyone just glares at him.
Ok Voyager rant aside, interesting way to view thing Chatty.
Somehow Chatoyance has yet again managed to delve into my mind, find my feelings, thoughts, and put them to paper (or to screen in the case of this blog) far better than I could have ever hoped.
Once again, well played. Carry on my good author, carry on.
this... this is just sad...
So where do steel frame construction and hydroelectric dams imply industrially blighted pit mines where extensive rail networks and common metal implements do not?
82250
Speaking for myself, it's only in the intrest of having something resembling consistent.
Now if you want to establish that the whole setting is schizo-tech, then it would help if you kinda evened everything out, otherwise changes just look kinda jarring.
This has less to do with what something is, by itself, than it seeming to float back and forth depending upon whatever is best for that one episode. Which tends to drive some people up a wall if they want to do fanworks of something and maintain consistency with the base material.
well, while we're on the matter of alicorns (for now at least... I'm sure this'll mean jack by the end of season three lol
) I'll postulate my own theory.
Alicorns are the nobility that has arisen in Equestria. Note how they're still called unicorns in the show. My theory: the wings are a genetic anomaly, and in a land of magic like Equestria they could be considered a sign a royalty. It may also only be limited to females who possess this trait.
Now as for Celestia and Luna, they are essentially the cream of the crop the royal unicorns of royal unicorns. I think their importance can be attributed to their use of the elements and their control of the sun and the moon. They are the strongest in Equestria and thus have power.
Now let's also cover why Celestia got her flank kicked. The answer is quite simple: love is quite possibly the most powerful magic shown in the show. It's a level above harmony. Thus Chrysalis manipulating it to beat back Celestia makes sense in that Celestia alone is weaker than the Elements.
But I think the most important thing I can say is this. When I watched this finale I thought "disney esque" At first that was just a simple "oh hey, this kinda reminds me of little mermaid" and stuff like that. Then I actually let what I thought sink in. Disney is the company that made our childhoods to say something can be like that is a really massive thing. As jaded as I am, if I thought that think of what the target demographic will think when they're grown up. They may very well hold this finale in the same esteem as those films.
holy crap
82261
I see your point and agree with you, but that isn't really what I was talking about.
Either way, I'm tired of arguing about a little girls cartoon about ponies.
82250 "So where do steel frame construction and hydroelectric dams imply industrially blighted pit mines where extensive rail networks and common metal implements do not?"
The issue is one of production. It is one thing to have individual miners in tunnels produce enough metal to make rails for specific rail lines and special carriages and such, and entirely another to produce the amount of metal needed to make steel beam building construction commonplace. In addition, the scale of smelting grows as a byproduct of that mass production for mass consumption of resources. There is also the issues of smog, coal production for power, and industrial waste.
Even before the Industrial Revolution, railed tracks were made for mine carts and such, but it would be inconceivable to use metal for the construction of, say, office buildings. The issue is always scale. Mass production means massive blight.
In the case of the dam, the scale of production needed to create the concrete, metal for generators and interior rebar and other systems automatically implies a full-on industrial revolution to have occurred. The scale is beyond massive. That is why many hydro dams are considered wonders of the world. The scale is truly incredible, and only possible to an industrial civilization. And that means blight and vast destruction of huge areas both to get the resources, and even more, to smelt, manufacture, and refine those resources.
Just as a fairy cake implies the existence of wheat, hydroelectric dams and steel beam construction imply industrial blight. You can't have cake without grain, you can't have an electrical dam without the infrastructure required to permit it to be built.
Every writer who does worldbuilding needs to consider these implications, these causal connections. If they do not, then their world becomes incapable of being believed in, because it has holes within its reality. Just as a story may have plot holes, a fictional world can have reality holes. Both destroy the power of the art.
You know, this is sort of how I view the world of Equestria, except I have resolved the issue: I have two headcanons, which are completely different and entirely separate from eachother. For example, in one of them, magic is simply another force of nature, an entirely different universe from ours, one could argue, whilst in the other, magic is actually naturally occurring, albeit extremely advanced, nanotechnology. Some episodes, regardless of how 'consistent' they are according to you, I simply refuse to accept as canon either way.
82202
I think this is actually a positive exercise. She's been using these standards for a little while now, but she hadn't done a more analytical definition and breakdown of them. Sure, there's a lot of judgement in there, but they're hers, and she isn't demanding that anybody else use these metrics. Besides, when she applied them critically, she learned a few things. Learning is good.
Now, what's sad is the level of unhappiness going around these parts. There's a lot of bitterness right now, and at the source is a general difference of expectations about what the show was meant to do, what it should do, and what it ought to do.
On that note, Krass, um, you're always kind of brash, and that's alright: it's who you are. But you're kind of contributing to the hostility of the atmosphere. Spice is traditional addition to a stew, but razor blades aren't. Please, feel free to be spicy, but remember to not be... slicey?
Now that I'm done talking to Krass, there are a few things that bear mentioning. This Equestria Prime, it isn't what the show's first author and executive producer really wanted. She wanted to a do a remake of the first generation, the show she remembered fondly, the original My Little Pony. A lot of things prevented her from doing that, like the EI standards, and some (surprisingly sane!) requests from her Hasbro superiors. Equestria Prime, as she's calling it, doesn't seem to be what... by the Sun Stone, what's her name? Laurel... Faucet? (Human names are so difficult, I'm sorry.) Well, anyway, it isn't what Faucet wanted. The strong feminist themes, though, that's pretty clear and intentional. So are the standards of basic watchability, the quality. It was something that the eighties cartoons (nearly all of them) sadly lacked because of the industry standards of the time.
From the way you've indicated your preferences, I'm not sure how you would like the Show That Could Have Been. We all like What Became, which was born of critique from other professionals, some honest revisions and rethinking, and even some corporate meddling -- all of that before the pilot was even being formally written. Anyway, this is all good, because no matter what, the people involved would not have been happy unless the final product was worth sticking their name on -- that's just how they are. And maybe how we all ought to strive to be.
Wow, I sound so pedantic tonight. Blueagh!
But there's something else I want to address: it sure looks to me like a goddess version of the Royal Pony Sisters is really, really, really important to you. As in, personally important. I'm curious about that.
To me, it doesn't seem like having gods looming over the young characters would help the show. In their presence, none of their growth really seems to matter, and threats all end up sort of insignificant. Their achievements end up about pleasing their divine owners, and all of their society, every character, is little more than a pet. That doesn't strike me as a helpful environment, granted the theme of the show. I'm not convinced that the intention of the pilot was to set either of them as all-powerful gods, either. They actually remind me of a lot of the potent characters that the original MLP characters met. Celestia is like a combination of the Moochick with Queen Rosedust, only more maternal and outgoing than either. I think that's really it: Celestia was supposed to be "mom", sort of, in a literative sort of way. It really wouldn't do if mom constantly swoops in and fixes everything with her ludicrous power all the time, and even worse if a goddess does. Or at least it wouldn't be terribly interesting, I think. Actually, I take that back: it's fine for a world-setting, but for the purpose of a show...
But I am quite curious: are pony goddesses personally important to you? If so, would you be willing to share why?
82475
Pony goddesses aren't per se important to me. I've made my case already in my previous blog that they are the intent: the opening gambit of episode one, season one is a creation myth. That was no accident. It takes deliberate effort to craft a blatant creation myth, and to illustrate it in the style of ancient European bibles. Deliberate. That doesn't happen by accident. It takes research to get all the details correct.
It would be stupid to have Goddess Celestia be an all-fixing savior. That would be dull, and it would be poor storytelling, and it would not fit what they did with Twilight Sparkle.
Twilight Sparkle is Anthony from 'It's A Good Life'. She's Tetsuo from 'Akira'. She is the most dangerous living pony in the cosmos. As a foal, she nearly unraveled reality itself, just because she was frightened of a sonic rainboom. Only the Goddess Celestia could stop her - everypony else was being turned into potted plants. She is as great, or greater a threat than Discord.
But, she is also a potential gift, too. She is a necessary part of the Elements Of Harmony. So... what is the best dramatic situation for dealing with a Rogue Potential God? Send her to Friendship Camp! Socialize her! Get her to learn how to care about others, so that she doesn't destroy the world.
And that is exactly what we see in the first episodes. That is the premise, one that is referenced again and again.
Forget what is said on Deviant Art, look at what is presented in the show, in the original work before Faust was pressured to exit. It's there. Look. See.
A professional in the entertainment business will say one thing to the public, and speak another in their product, if they can get away with it. It's called good business.
Bottom line, though: if a being can manipulate celestial bodies, toss suns and moons about like toys, transform into anything at any time, be immortal, and can transform reality itself, that being is, by any reasonable definition, a god. That is what Celestia and Luna have demonstrated. That is what, until the recent episode, has defined them.
If the show shows me ponies, OK, it's ponies. If the show shows me gods, OK, it's gods. But if the show, after the creator is absent, suddenly changes all the rules, and shows the gods aren't gods - just ignore what has come before - then I feel justified in calling bullshit, because that is bad writing.
I don't need pony goddesses.
I need good writing. I am a stickler for good writing.
I find it interesting how all of Merriwether's episodes are never in the prime category.
Personally I agree that those episodes feel less like the rest of the series, I always thought that the ponies in Putting your hoof down and Heart warming's eve were acting too human. A little like your PER, minus the Conversion Bureau setting.
82481
The fun part about literature is that different sections of the audience can leave with different interpretations of the product. In high school, I had a knock-down, drag-out, take-no-prisoner argument over the intention of the film American Beauty.
That's right, American Beauty. She thought that there was a moral message, see? The message, or so she argued, was that the protagonist is a tragic figure who falls from the righteous path into sin: drugs, an attraction to a high school girl, taking a job with the lowest level of responsibility, and so on. I was deeply offended by that. I thought it was so bloody obvious that the movie was trying to communicate anything but that! The way I understood it, it was about how the protagonist rejects the world that was making him miserable, and how the people around him imploded when they aren't able to cope with that. He experiments with the taboo, because the taboos themselves are inane. It was about how the search for happiness is a damned difficult one, and about the terrible truth about the dead ends we can find ourselves in, especially for people like the protagonist.
Well, she wasn't going to hear that. It got ugly. By the end of it, she was telling me that by the time I was twenty, I would be a seriel-killer junkie with AIDS, and I responded by calling her a reprehensible, moralistic, brain-dead bitch. She turned to (mostly symbolic) violence, and we were both very nearly suspended.
Thing is, I'm not so sure now. Maybe the screenplay was deliberately playing both of those themes! This is why we have literature majors: you can justify spending thousands of hours exploring all the nuances that an artistic work may or may not have. And then consider the theory of the Death of the Author! In the particular case of MLP:FiM, I can see how one could pointlessly chase the Voice of Lauren, but that might be a waste of time.
I can definitely see how the RPS could be seen as deific: observe their powers over the cosmos, their apparent immortality, and their physicality indicates a supremacy over their subjects. They are also literal living legends to the characters in the show: see Mare in the Moon, the. After I watched those first six episodes my friend gratefully gave me, I actually talked to him about how Celestia and Luna end up looking like gods, and sure enough I noticed that these funny "bronies", my unexpected companions in the MLP fandom, were occasionally calling them that.
But then consider the context: pegasi control the weather. Unicorns bend matter, teleport, and do magic, just like they always have. And the earthlings... uh... farm?
(I was surprised that they didn't address that in this generation. Poor sweet neglected earthlings!) That's some mythic stuff right there, the kind of stuff only gods are supposed to be able to do, sans the farming. In that context, the RPS are just mega-ponies. Pony royalty, and they're unique, but not necessarily deities. Furthermore, watch how Her Highness Celestia relates to her subjects, especially in contrast with Her Highness Luna. What kind of god goes to a friendly luncheon with their creations, or whatever the relationship is, just to get to know them better? Or berates her pet for scaring them, and then asking said pet to apologize for giving them a hard time? A really rather pleasant one, sure, but then consider that hug, that genuine, sweet hug she gives to Twilight at the end of the pilot there. I could ramble obnoxiously about this, but I hope I've established what I need to.
On the matter of the winged unicorn princesses, my society-mother is a competing theory with your world-goddess theory, and both of us are trying to read the intentions of the same core of original authors. I don't expect that you're going to find it compelling, and that doesn't really bother me. You've presented your evidence the way you see it, but I'm seeing some different things, too. You say, "it's all right there!" but when I look at the same, all I can say is, "That was just the result of a poor implementation of what I believe their intentions were!" My theory has some strengths in that it wasn't at all challenged by any of the later episodes. For instance, you've handled the Hearth's Warming Eve thing like a toxic frog that's jumped in through the patio door, but it all fit just fine with me. A horde of skilled unicorns manipulating the sky? That certainly implies the level of power and the unique talent that Celestia has, and how she and her sister transformed their society after Discord, is what I thought.
Of course, that certainly sounds like I'm accusing the team of bad writing, that is to say, the original team, in other words, it sounds like I'm accusing Lauren Faust of bad writing. And, according to my Celestia-as-society-mother theory, yes, that so many audience members instead see her as all-powerful god-chief is a serious failure. But then, I wonder what the core audience thinks of this. Do they see Celestia as a goddess? Hmmm. Maybe we adults see things and the world different than kids. Perhaps it isn't such bad writing after all, us older folks are just bad at watching these kinds of things.
I find it interesting that this around what I have thought of the show, and that the ideas in prime are what I am trying to use for my stories(that I hope to finish one day)
good organization so far..
but we dont know how accurate things are in relation to future episodes. like for instance, cadance could have been a visiting princess of a neighboring kingdom? and equestria may not have open pit mines but they could be importing coal and steel from places like dragonia (land of the dragons?) and in return they send stuff that the dragons dont have in abundance.
it is well doctumented that ponies co-exist very well with the other species (donkeys, cows, pigs) and so it would follow to reason that they should be on the same terms with the other species. (dragons, gryffons, and the sentient animal/monsters)
so so far your theory is correct. but untill the show is played all the way through, we dont know what can become cannon in a few episodes.
I have to ask, is "Celestia and Luna are mortal ponies who ... are virtually unable to defend themselves or their realm, and must depend on others for that task." the reason why A Canterlot Wedding is designated Equestria Beta?
82421
Just one problem with your theory: It's been shown that it's possible for unicorns to construct dams using only raw materials and magic. Twilight repaired the thing all by herself when it had a big gaping hole in it. While she does have a large power boost due to being a broken character, it's not too much of a stretch to think that ponies could have the methods of creating all of the materials involved in dam production, and just have large teams of unicorns work magic in tandem to do all the work that us humans have to resort to polluting technologies to pull off.
Electricity? That's what pegusai call shoving a thundercloud into a box.
83612
You know, if they had shown us that, instead of a hydro dam, I would have been fine with it. It would have fit within the established cosmos, it would have made sense, it would have been imaginative and original, it would have been proper worldbuilding. It would have been non-human, it would have been Pony.
Right there, Firebirdbtops, with just that simple comment, you have shown more imagination, skill, talent and attention to continuity than the paid, 'professional' author of Mare Do Well. Note that. Being paid does not equate to being good.
I'm not used to being praised in such a manor. It is actually painful. Imagination, maybe. Skill and talent? I don't know if I agree. Besides, paid writers not being good was given physical form when Dragonball: Evolution came out. Or if you prefer Tangled, which had plot holes large enough for Luna to ride the moon through . Anyway, thank you for the extravagant praise. Coming from you it means a lot.
Personally, I liked that Equestria had some modern stuff to go along with the Steampunk elements. Once again, you could just say it's powered by magic. It's my personal opinion that Equestria is under an industrial evolution and magic (both unicorn and earth pony) helps them build faster than we did. But that's just my two bits.
I wonder how well this is going to stand up to Season 3... or rather, how Season 3 will fit into your schema.
Also, I'd like to propose some considerations regarding your assertion that such technology as dams are evidence of strip mining and industrial blight. Given that ponies are so in-tune with the natural world, I would think that they'd be far more likely to have found less destructive ways of mineral extraction. Between unicorns and earth ponies, I'm sure there would be some way to gather what they need without destroying the environment. Granted, there's little evidence for such a suggestion in canon, aside from Rarity's gem-finding spell (Surely other there could be other unicorns who are dedicated to seeking mineral veins with a similar technique) and Pinkie's "rock farming" heritage (Because, as you said, it's Pinkie), but I get the feeling that ponykind are better stewards of their planet than us. It would also mean that modern or modern looking technology isn't quite so far outside the realm of possibility.
Something I've noticed, It's About Time is in your Equestria Prime episode list but it features the hydro plant as well.
Now, what I don't understand is why A Canterlot Wedding is Equestria Beta.
Also, Sonic Rainboom has microphones.
???
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My story Around The Bend answers the entirety of the Canterlot Wedding question. In short, Twilight was originally shown to be an only child who never experienced friendship, the entire power of the Elements Of Harmony hinge on her finding friendship for the very first time in the first episodes.
If Twi had a great and popular brother and a famous and royal foalsitter, her social life would have been huge, and as a result nothing in season one would make the least sense. Additionally, we have Celestia, who can move the frigging sun and moon being defeated by a bug, and no, the power of love does not equal the power to move stars and moons. Worse, the Changelings may look cool, but their premise is stupid: they eat misplaced love by being hidden, but when they are revealed, they try to conquer openly, which is just... pointless and useless. They can't get love through mistaken identity if everypony knows about them! Finally, Shining Armor is more powerful than Celestia herself? What? Huh?
It had good music, cool looking bug-ponies, but everything else about Wedding was utterly stupid and destructive of everything else that has come before. That is why. Continuity is everything.
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But when was it ever stated in the canon that Shining Armor was popular? And when was Cadence ever asserted to be famous? Twilight referred to her as a princess, but that doesn't make her intensely famous. There's still so much we don't know, stuff that has yet to be explained. I think that if Season 3 doesn't answer some of the more canon-breaking questions you pose, then you can say they're holes. But since it isn't here yet...
I think that Twi having a brother is operable in the context of Season One. In "B.B.B.F.F." she even says that she didn't want or see the need for friends. Having a sibling you're close to and having friends are two different things, I think. And anyway, Twilight apparently left for Celestia's tutelage permanently after her entrance exam, possibly like a boarding school. She then would've spent most of her life in the company of her mentor and her books, as it's apparent in the pilot that she doesn't have much to do with her peers socially--nor does she want to. Her big brother being her friend for her young fillyhood doesn't really equate to having five best friends, as I said. Of course, that's just my opinion.
On the Changelings... We don't really know what their plan was beyond Chrysalis's impersonation of Cadence. Maybe they would've attempted to slip into pony society. But Chrysalis's cover was blown, so really, why not attack? Why just leave? They could either return to whatever squalor they lived in previously, or attempt to take Canterlot, an extremely prosperous and rich city.
On Chrysalis's defeat of Celestia--when it comes to something like the Power of Love, I think that it's just one of those things you accept as part of the canon. Like, okay, in Real Life the Power of Love doesn't really amount to much, but in a fantasy world filled with magic? It's pretty much allowed to be whatever the creators say. And since this show does take its roots from My Little Pony, well, that's just one of those things that's part of the package. And it makes the romantics happy.
Shining Armor's repulsion of the Changelings can more or less be given to the same thing. Especially since shield spells are apparently his special talent. And the pony who is pretty much the physical interpretation of Love is the one granting him the Power of Love, so, y'know, bonus.
I don't know if I'm being factually correct, but I think I am.
I don't know if you'll see anything you can agree with in this, and I don't mind either way. I really just wanted to say what I thought.
Because this is, after all, more or less my opinion as guided by the facts I've pulled from the series so far.
Also, the text header at the beginning of every chapter of Around the Bend (which I've read) is freaking awesome.
That is all.
Journcy Out.
You just had to go and mention an interstice between the two universes and now this song will be in my head for another week!
That aside, will there be an updated version of this post for season three? I feel like a lot more of those episodes landed in either the Beta universe or the Interstice than in the Prime universe.
And now, 7 1/2 years later... I've made a playlist in my pony folder with Alpha plus a few Interstice episodes, because when I do a re-watch now, that's probably what I want to see. That makes me kinda sad.
(If you haven't heard the drama over the leaked final episodes, duck and cover. The parts of the fandom which have are having a meltdown. It's that polarizing. I didn't like what I saw, myself. Guess I'll go back to the first two seasons, when my favorite purple unicorn was still allowed to be happy.)