On rewriting... · 8:41am Aug 26th, 2013
Rewrite should be completely and totally done. If anyone notices anything out of place, let me know.
Created this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hdqSBj1Jm-dw5Jl4iJA0OpbPbJZzVFfQW3rlT_gIkm0/edit
If you want to read the original, download it here: http://pastebin.com/KD2TFT0Z
NOTE: If a chapter's title is blank or "Slice of Life," I'm looking for a title for it. Suggestions are welcome.
In case anyone is wondering what size chart I'm going on:
http://i.imgur.com/jU5Gt9v.jpg
Also of relevance:
http://pastebin.com/pbmSdAk5
http://pastebin.com/n37YXtcs
Changelog (definitely spoilers below):
1: Changed the wording in a number of places. Made Nav seem less whiny. Hopefully made some people less OOC. Made the beginning sound less preachy and angsty. It more properly... sets the stage, you could say.
2: Made everyone less OOC. Definitely, definitely set the stage here.
3: Reads better. Think I added some of the old chapter four onto this one.
4: Complete and total rewrite. Probably one of the best chapters I've ever done, actually. It's Nightmare Night.
5: Twilight and Nav vs Trixie. Almost a complete rewrite.
6: Ponified Nav chapter. Partial rewrite. New stuff added. Rape redone to be less OOC.
7: Cleaned up.
8: Added Nav meeting Celestia. More foreshadowing.
9: Added a section where Nav goes hunting with Luna. Plenty of foreshadowing here.
10: The Gala. Removed Z, added Egill, which is close to the same thing, but with Luna instead.
11: Summer Wrap Up, where Luna practically admits her feelings. Nav gets wrecked. This is the substitute for the stupid sky rodeo (yes, it was stupid, god dammit).
12: The aftermath of Nav getting wrecked. Close to the other aftermath chapter, but also different. Considerably less Zecora (by which I mean fuck that rhyming zigger).
13: Gave Nav a reason to actually kill. Gave him more of a moral problem with killing. Gave him more of a reason to not fight back against naga chick.
16: Made Nav less full retard. He grows a fucking spine and deals with Kat.
17: Changed up the Luna dialogue to fit her better. Nuked the ending.
19: Removed everything involving Celestia and Luna. Appended 22 to what was left. Removed the stuff about Winter Wrap Up from this chapter.
21: Specified that the vengeful noblewoman was Fleur. Appended stuff about Winter Wrap Up to this chapter.
22: Originally 23. Gave Twilight an excuse for leaving Nav behind when teleporting out of the dragon area.
23: Originally half of 24. Removed many references to what was 19. Cleaned up some wording. Added references to books to explain what the hell Nav was talking about.
24: Split in half. Some was moved to 23. Cleaned things up, added references to books, removed some references to the old chapter 19.
27: Cleaned. Removed references to Z and 19. Redid the Luna clop almost completely. It's considerably more romantic and readable now.
28: Cleaned. Changed a lot of the interaction between Nav, Twilight, and Rainbow Dash. Removed a bunch of references to Z and 19.
29: Removed references to Z. Cleaned up the small conversation with Pinkie to make more sense and sound less like exposition (hopefully).
31: Heavily modified his talk with Fluttershy.
34: And I removed Nav's humanhood size difference, thanks to the size chart.
35: Usual. Removed Nav's mini-peen due to size chart.
38: Done. Decided to remove that really stupid love conspiracy thing Luna and Celestia had going on.
39: Done. Never been so tempted to remove a clop scene. Didn't, though. Changed it due to size chart.
41: Gutted the shit out of this chapter. Nav no longer gets in a relationship with Luna. The love conspiracy is entirely gone.
43: Removed some Z stuff, removed some Nav x Luna stuff, removed the stupid conspiracy stuff.
47: Done. Removed Pinkie's stupid crush on Nav. Why did I even put there there?
48: Done. If you want to see the version that isn't censored for fimfic, check the gdocs version. I don't suggest it. The only thing that's changed is day four.
55: Done. Removed Twilight's silly little crush on Nav.
59: Toned down Nav's dickishness slightly. Chapter title still fits, though.
67: Don't get attached to Freki. Decided to kick him to the curb before Nav leaves. He'll be there for a few chapters, but he'll not go with him. My justification for this is that I literally keep forgetting about him in new chapters. I get midway through, look at my character list, and realize that I haven't mentioned him at all. Then I have to reread everything and figure out where I can put him. I got tired of that, so I'll just get rid of him before Nav leaves.
85: Freki left this chapter.
100: Done
Reading is for gay lords. I'd rather smoke weed.
I'll 'ave a go at it after I finish editing a new chapter on another story. Which I will be doing after school.
When WoW gets boring after a quest or two (fucking pandas man) I may glance.
Maybe.
Challenge considered...
Dude. I'm pretty well read when it comes to literature, not to toot my own horn or anything.
All I'm saying is that if this story grabbed me from the first chapter and I've read over 1,000,000 words of the story then there can't have been much wrong with it at all.
Maybe see it as a testament to how far your writing ability has come?
You've got a case of 'my-writing-sucks'-itis that all writers experience from what I've heard.
I flat out say I don't think there is much wrong with it. The fact your not narcissistic enough of a writer to bathe in your own 'dazzling brilliance' is a good trait.
All I'll say is don't worry about it so much. I like it and so do hundreds of other people.
1309331
This would be a lot easier to believe if I didn't have almost everyone else I talk to saying that the beginning is bad. And it doesn't help that I realized it myself. A number of people have told me that it doesn't start getting better until after he gets back from Egypt the second time. I might not rewrite that far because that's bloody insane, but I at least want to get the first ten chapters done.
1309618
All I can say is that if you convinced me to start reading a million words, you must have done something right.
I'm not going to say things can't be improved offhand, because without going through it again I'm not in a position to do so. But given the amount of fics I take one look at and instantly reject (and I'm particularly harsh on large stories), your 'worst' writing is still far better than most. Though given how bad most of the stuff out there is, I guess this doesn't say much by itself.
1309722
I'm coming from 4chan, so if everything isn't bloody perfect, they'll crucify your ass. One person was kind enough to write a review: http://pastebin.com/bmGbAyPt
I don't want to only get rid of the bad writing. I want to get rid of the stuff that's painful to read. Some of the early stuff in there is, when I go back to reread it, annoying as all hell. Nav needs to get slapped around a few times, I think. Sure, it shows how he progressed as a character over time, but I at least want to make it read easier and better overall.
1309997
The guy does make some valid points: the story is pretty damn slow at the beginning, and Navarone didn't do shit about the rape that happened with Rarity and Pinkie. Those are really the only problems with the beginning.
That being said, this guy is too closed minded; he has this rigid view of what he's looking for in a story and he just didn't find it here. His biggest issue is that there was 'no fun allowed'. It sounds to me like this guy is just upset his favorite ponies aren't depicted like he wants them to be. The story is written from the point-of-view of Navarone; if you can't adopt his mindset then you won't like the story. There could be a parallel story written from the ponies' perspective and it would probably show the ponies exactly like he wants them to be because it would validate their actions with a bias towards them, just like the show does.
I also thought it was funny that he complained about the pony countries having parallel names to Earth countries; that's exactly what they do in the show. This guy can't seem to make up his mind, does he want the story to be like the show or not?
He doesn't seem to understand that this universe is a more realistic version than the original. A weak, powerless human appears in big-monster world, rape is bound to happen and is justifiable. He read until Chapter 26 and he asks why the princesses trust him? Did he completely miss the fact that the princesses spied on him constantly? There was no trust needed of him for anything. Again, he must have been too closed-minded, seeing as he couldn't understand Celestia's ulterior motives for using Nav.
Going back to what I said at the beginning, the start of the story is weak because it's extremely slow paced. A lot of it is just dialogue with hardly any comedic or action moments (like, seriously fuck chapter two), but then there's not much you can do to fix it this late in the story. You could add points like those in, and hopefully no one would mention that they're not brought up again.
As for that horrid rape scene with Rarity and Pinkie... well most people don't like it because it's either way out of character, or because it's not brought up except for a few times, or both. You could fix the second one easier than the first just by adding a few lines in the next few chapters every time Navarone sees either of them. Twilight mentions that he winced or left the room every time he saw them for a period after he was raped, but we never saw any of that. As for the out of character problem... well I know how it's validated from Pinkie and Rarity's perspective by reading your explanation in the comment section, but it's never mentioned in the actual story(I don't think). If it were, it would probably make the whole ordeal a little less one-sided.
1309997
I think the review has some valid points, though personally I'm able to overlook them, at least to a greater extent.
I think Celestia's actions within the story are fairly well justified. Sure, it's twisting canon!Celestia slightly, but it is a darker world than the show... and Celestia's boredom with life comes up several times.
I'm not a fan of the rape stuff, but it does seem to play a very large role in Nav becoming increasingly unhinged so I don't think I can say it's unjustified. The two biggest faults I would level at it are Nav's reactions which are wildly inconsistent, and how it's completely OOC for Luna/Rarity/Pinkie, though there is a stab at providing a reason for the latter two.
I also think that part of the problem are some of the reactions you get. You've been very willing to respond to comments and feedback -- one of the most active authors I've seen in doing so, in fact -- but some of the suggestions and comments disturb me at times, and don't seem conducive to a good story, only playing to whatever the person in question wants to see.
However, I also have to consider how much my personal preferences come into things here as well. Lets face it, you're never going to please everyone, and even in stories I greatly enjoy there's almost always something I dislike about it. The question is really A) whether it's a legitimate criticism, or just a subjective opinion, and B) if it ruins the story or not.
There have been parts for me that skate close to B, without crossing the line. And conversely I've got a lot of enjoyment from the good parts of the story, and I think there are plenty of those.
Whatmustido. Why do you never let me sleep?
I've been looking at the early chapters for a while now and will definitely give them a twice over. Least I can do for my favorite author.
1309144 then why are you on a writing site with an account.
1312975
I don't think anyone here has the brain cells capable of comprehending sarcasm.
Maybe the idea of careless joke is just too much.
1313177 lol. i understood you perfectly. afterall, weed is legal here in Washington. lol
Alright, I just read through the first 10 chapters (through Fimfiction, not through Docs) and there isn't really much I can do. I'm good with grammar and spelling. Everything here is more actual literary things, like some parts not being descriptive, and there's a slight taste of Mary Sue in there. I am no good at that stuff. Furthermore, I don't think the first part of the story 'sucks.' It could certainly be better, but there is no 'suck.' A story that makes you think, truly think, cannot suck. This story has you thinking right from the beginning. Moral implications swimming through every part of one's mind from chapter one. The story gradually gets darker, making one think more about things their cushy lives would otherwise cause them to never consider. Fuck, this story has made me rethink my entire attitude towards life. I do not feel comfortable (or accurate) saying that any part of DoaM "sucks."
1322696
If the beginning scares people off and the rest of it is considerably better, I'm full well and happy to say it sucks. It actually hurts in some ways to go back and even try to reread it.
1322700
As I said, it can be improved, but it doesn't suck. If it makes you think, it's worth reading.
Although, if the beginning bothers you so much, perhaps I can change my previous vote as to what you should do. Here are some ideas:
Get a good 6 or 7 chapters written, then send them to your editors in bulk. If you even have editors. If you don't, well... Other ideas below. If you do, while they edit, work on the earlier chapters. Once they are done editing, upload them all at once. The 60k - 100k mass update will more than make up for the time it took for them to come out. Follow this update schedule until you are satisfied (as satisfied as an author can get with his/her own works, anyways) with the earlier chapters. After that, you can switch back to the old schedule. Or, keep the 6-7 chapter bulk updates, if you come to like them, or the fans like them. You could use the time it takes them to edit to map out more of the story, write the next bulk chapters, or take some much-deserved off time. Your editors would probably like the first or last one more. Most fans would like the second one more. I would enjoy the first or the second, but I feel the third is the best option, for your sake.
You could also just slow down your current update rate. Do more bi-weekly updates rather than your typical weekly ones. Use the time to work on the earlier chapters. Go weekly again once those are fixed up.
This I believe is the worst option, but probably the easiest and fastest. Write a TL;DR version of the prologue + first ten chapters. Place it before the prologue in the chapter order. However, it seems lazy. It would really make the story seem much more low-quality than you feel the first few chapters do. Plus, idiots would probably read that, then just read the prologue and first few chapters anyways because they will just keep pressing 'Next.'
These are my suggestions. Take them as you will.
1322747
I have my proofers read the thing as I'm writing it, since they have so little work to actually do. Hell, I'm almost finished with the next chapter already.
I wouldn't update in bulk like that. Maybe once every twenty-four hours, because that would maximize front page time. I might just take time whenever I get to another boring/difficult chapter and go back to work on the older ones. That way I'd have two things that would suck to do instead of just one and I can procrastinate on one while doing the other. I don't know.
1322771
Well, of course I didn't mean literally "all at once," I meant within a similar time frame, as you said.
I believe my previous vote was to save the revamp for when you get writers' block... if that exists for you, judging by how you almost have the next fucking chapter done. I still think that is the best option, but the more clustered updates with more down time between seems like a good way to do it if you want to get the revamp done and over with all at once.
Also, I doubt you need more, but if for some reason you do, I would fucking orgasm at the thought of proofing this shit. I full-blown edit one story and proof another, but they don't update very often. When they do, they aren't very big. I have literally nothing to do but sit here, staring at my screen, waiting for something to happen. I would probably just end up pointing out anything that bothers me story-wise, or isn't clear. Then I would probably just comment stuff with witty responses and thoughts. Plus, with the story based on this that we talked about, having slightly earlier access to chapters would really help with my planning. Alas, I just find myself sitting here not being helpful, fantasizing about hopes and dreams that were never meant to be. Ignore me.
1322798
The post you replied to has the link to the next chapter in it, or what I have of it so far. It's about 8k words in. Feel free to look over it. If I remember, I might start PMing you the links to the ones after this as I start them.
1322805
You just made me the most potentially happy man, What. If you were gay, and I were gay, I would fuck you silly right now. Hell, I may just consider it anyways.
1309331 I just finished going over the first chapter (Chapter one, not the prologue.) and it wasn't exactly high quality... Especially when compared to the later chapters of the story.
1322810
That's not awkward at all...
I shall persevere.
Gonna post this here for the time being since Google is still being a bitch about getting into its head about using my account nickname.
I noticed on Chapter 5 that you've thrown out the idea of scrapping it entirely in its current state, which I certainly wouldn't be against.
Luna's actions over the next few chapters seem pretty crazy and OOC, and pretty much come out of nowhere. Maybe you could revise it so it's a combination of her being a *little* crazy and obsessive, changing customs and attitudes since her stay on hotel moon, and her plan turning bad for reasons.
Rather than insane schemes followed up by a plan to murder someone who's an integral part of one of the most powerful defenses you have.
Though part of the problem is that you've got to keep it fairly consistent since you'd need to rewrite a large part of the story otherwise...
Meh, just some comments and me thinking out loud. Disregard as needed.
1381633
I'm thinking of doing more of a reorganization. Moving chapters five and six down a lot and then completely redoing chapter five. Chapter seven to eleven would move down. Chapter five would become Summer Wrap Up and chapter six would stay basically the same. It would take a lot of changing, but it wouldn't be impossible. And of course, it would confuse the shit out of people who weren't following the rewrite process.
Thinking about doing a lot of things. No more Trixie x Discord, for one. Might make chapter eight even less rape-y. It'll be a lot of work.
1381856
Yeah I'd definitely approve of a revised chapter 8 that tones that down a lot for similar reasons.
Hey here's an idea on that subject: since Nav has only just been turned into a pony, you could have the situation where he's not well suited to controlling some of the instincts that go along with that. Have Rarity/Pinkie in heat drive him wild with pheromones. They think he consented, and only realise he didn't after because he lost control after the fact.
That would seem to hit a lot of the same notes; Nav ends up with some serious psychological problems, and can still be very resentful of them over it, but without making it deliberate. It also makes him forgiving them later in the story more believable.
I usually re-read DoaM (lolwut?) every now-and-then because other stories have either ended or gone places I don't fancy (Man of War for example) and i'll try to sum up all the thing/s I thought/think can be improved.
)
1. The first couple of chapters felt a bit rushed. It was like, instead of being a "human wakes up in Equestria" sort of thing, it kind of felt like those first 1-3 (maybe 1-4) chapters were a prologue of some sort and then we skip to where Nav is now. Maybe you could extend those a bit. (Although as your writing this story in a journal kind of way, then i guess Nav would have nothing to extend on as his other activities might be to menial to bother writing down.)
2. I get why you're removing most of the rape scene. I guess little kiddies might find it disturbing as there are no doubt a few reading this story. But the only problem for me wasnt the rape itself, but how Nav reacted to it. I was kind of hoping for a massive revenge or something i guess.
Those are the only problems i can come up with at this time. DoaM is still my favorite story on this site. Hell, its my favorite story since my early days reading "Living the Dream" by kickass222urmom.
Hopefully that helped (probably not
Sorry for my bad grammar btw.
Peace
I really don't plan on reading the redone chapters. What are the chances that you can inform us briefly on important changes that are relevant to future chapters?
1420417
I already did. It's in the blog post.
Caught up on the latest updates. Luna's brand of crazy seems to be getting a lot more foreshadowing this time around.
Good stuff.
1436210
It amuses me that a lot of people said the earlier stuff wasn't bad. I couldn't help but cringe every few lines in chapter one. It slowly got better, but some of it... Oh man, it was bad. Thankfully, it's almost undeniably better now.
1437329
It depends how you define bad. By the standard of most fanfic, it was very good... which doesn't say much and tells you how low the standards are generally. If you were someone who cared about high quality, then yeah there was some bad stuff in there. It all reads much better, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for the last few chapters of the current block.
You're not the only author to go through that, and I have massive respect for those who can not only be so critical of their own work, but are so willing to listen to criticism. Even if I frankly think some of that advice is utterly shite. Obviously not my own :P
Christ, the amount of bad writing, both around here and elsewhere, that gets ridiculous praise really annoys me. It's enough to make you wonder at times if anyone has any idea of what a good story is.
1437367
Judging by how few people know how to correctly do dialogue, I'm guessing no. You can't read good books on a semi-regular basis and not figure out how to do dialogue. Even some of the extremely large stories on this site do it wrong and I can't help but wonder how it happens for so long. Especially when, in one case, I actually told someone he was doing it incorrectly and told him how to properly do it.
But oh well. Other stories aren't my problem. Mine is. And I'm willing to listen to criticism because I'm not a bloody child and I want to get better. If you actually look at the numbers on my story, about 8.3k people clicked on the prologue. About 7.9k clicked on chapter one. Only 5.8k continued to chapter 2. And then 4.9k to chapter three. After that, it steadies for a while. That was sign enough, discounting my own inability to read it without cringing and absolutely every good writer I know that has read it telling me the beginning is terrible when compared to the rest.
So I'm finally fixing it. Or at least I was, until I hit a wall at chapter eleven. I'll probably start breaking that wall down now that I have my assembly program out of the way (http://pastebin.com/mTYzRweG if you're interested for some reason).
1437412
Well yeah, anyone who wants to better themselves and is mature listens to criticism, but you'd be surprised just how many won't. Well, you probably wouldn't, but still.
Metrics can be a difficult thing to interpret. I recently put out a video, and while the limited feedback I've gotten is very positive, the average view time is something like 30% of the video's length. Is that being dragged down by people watching for a second before realising it's not what they were after, people only watching a bit and getting fed up because they didn't like it, or something else entirely? Maybe they didn't have 10 minutes spare?
Similar story for some of my other work, even that with much higher figures and which had a high upvote/downvote ratio. If I took it at face value then that figure looks bad, when it's almost certainly standard across Youtube. Only with additional information like votes, or the search terms that brought them to the video does it start to make more sense.
In your case, sure, I'd suggest people not liking it is one reason for the drop off, but there's a difference between "this sucks" and "this isn't what I'm after" The first one is something you can do something about, the second... not really.
Even if it makes no difference (though I do think it will), I would still support you rewriting the story to make it better. Since you appear to care about what you put out, I guess you do too, not just out of a pragmatic desire to stop people getting put off.
I did check your program, though as I said a while ago, my knowledge of assembly is limited to the fact that it's fucking hard. Dread to imagine what it would look like to implement a strong hashing function, rather than reversible encryption.
HA! You may replace these chapters with rewrites! But I will keep your old chapters because why? I STILL LIKE THEM! AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT! MUAHAHAHH!
I thought this was one of the main factors, how he lost his trust! And honestly the most... well... intimidating rape was still with Kat. 
?
. 
And besides... why less rape with pony Nav?
Some may have thought Pinkie and Rarity were bad to him, but actually it was Kat who reached that peak later. In comparison to her, Pinkie and Rarity's part was pretty tame, still bad for his mentality though. I just don't know why you had to jumble that stuff
Same goes for the whole Z thing... Why remove it? It was a nice touch and change, also very interesting to see Nav play with Twilight in his "zorro" masquerade.
I think you are being to hard on yourself bro, really
Anyway, I'm gonna keep both versions, and when I print a copy (for binding) I will choose which chapters I like more and deserve to be printed, the rewritten or the classics.
... AND I AM STILL AT CHAPTER 42 DAMMIT!
1462690
I will keep my old chapter up for download on pastebin, where it's been for months. If people want to read them, whatever. But the new stuff is completely better in almost every way.
He still gets raped by them, it's just not as bad. More hormones involved, more animalistic. And I'll be tweaking the stuff with Kat as well.
And I removed Z because there was something better to put in its place. Why would Nav avoid Luna if he had no reason to at this point? So instead he spends the night with her, showing their relationship building. Z wasn't bad, no, but this is better.
Not all of the rewrites are actually completely redone chapters. Some of them are, yes, but some of them just have additions and some of them are just fixed up with better writing.
1462745
If I had a nickle for everytime I hear that about movie remakes...curse that dark knight... Naaah! Just kidding! I trust your better judgement of your own story... I hope
.
.
Still, I find it amazing how this story kept my interest for reading, for you see I am actually not much of a reader... especially regarding long stories. Seeing how I read past all the unchanged said chapters and was still fine with them, I just can't picture the big deal about them being rewritten or "edited" or "polished" or... running out of words here, might be because I'm german *snort*
But I guess if it was in your opinion really that bad, so you had to cringe while reading it over again... *sigh* seems to me there was no other way... wait did I read that right now? Are you going over all the chapters past 12 aswell? WAAAI DUUUDE WAAAAI?
1462783
I'm going over them all, but I'm not going to be making many major changes past past chapter sixteen. I just need to do some basic work, improving some things. And all the rewrite work I've done is completely public and open to be read, though most of it isn't on fimfic yet. Just click on the links above and you can read them. Chapters one to four are already on the site, though.
Rarity on Earth update? Eventually
?
1487430
Ha, good one. No, I'm ten thousand words into the next Diaries chapter. Started two or so days ago.
1487433
Well, I can't really complain. You have two stories I like, so at least one is getting updated.
I can hope that you finish that one one day :P
Chapter 19 sound kinda out of place now that Luna is less of a asshole but some parts can be saved.
1519695
The only part of chapter nineteen that's going to be saved is the part at the end about Spike. The rest is going to be completely removed.
1519696 and give a name to chapter 22 is the only one that is empty. curse my curiosity about reading the calendar. spoiled myself.
Say are you not going to edit 18, or are you just skipping ahead since elininating a chapter would throw of your current numbering? just curious. also keep up the amazing work both in new chapters and rewrites
.
1529363
I took one look at 18 and almost found a pistol to blow my brains out. Pinkie was so OOC in that chapter it's a wonder anyone read it. That's why I started working on 100. I'm on 18 now.
1530355 thanks for the clarification. I would tell you to relax but i don't know if that would mess with the flow of your awsome writing.
are these going to be changed on this site or only on the google docs?
1545775
It's already changed on the site.