(spoiler) She's been dead since the beginning of the series.

OBJECTION!
Starswirl apparently invented time magics.

Discord was in time-out for turning the statues in the statue garden to Jell-o.

834502 Denied. He invented time-travel spells with conventional unicorn magic as proven by himself, Twilight and presumably others.

The episode has been close to epic, but (in my humble opinion) only because of the astounding work of Daniel and M.A. With a slight help from the animation team, of course.
As for the story, well, alicornification of the protagonist is not the thing that should be squeezed into 22 minutes. It deserves more time to be done properly. Though I have to commend the writers here, they did a remarkable job, even if the episode did feel rushed.

Also, the canon is so full of plotholes that Chrysalis' body looks like an impenetrable fortress compared to it (on a side note, it probably is... ).

I cannot, however, for the love of Celestia imagine how the writers are going to roll season 4 with the same cast. Because let's be honest - such an episode (well, a two-parter would have been even better ) would be a fitting grand ending for an entertaining story. Also, as Celestia said, other ponies will learn from Twilight from now on. I would hate to see Twilight go, but damn if I didn't feel that way when the credits rolled.

One thing's for certain: having Twilight stay in Ponyville (le new capital for yet another kingdom? ) and learn friendship lesson is sorta out of the question now.

Thus, I hereby propose season 4 to employ a new cast and be called "Cutie Mark Chronicles Extended".

You appear to be having a bit of trouble with the BBCode.

"New magic =/= new spell. The episode implies that Starswirl did not understand the magic of friendship (meaning non-traditional magic) and was thus unable to complete his spell. What Twilight did was use the actual magic of friendship for a spell, which presumably, had never been done before."

...well that doesn't seem officially confirmed at all, now does it? In fact, it sounds like little more than speculation about semantics to me. So basically... that's your headcanon.

I agree the episode was amazing

SADDEST THING EVAR

834502
dashie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/rsz/mlfw8949_small.jpg

EDIT: Oh, didn't realize Deleteh already corrected you. XD Sorreh.

And D takes the cup (again) for sound explanations that make sense.

834502

Fan Fiction: Well, it's fan fiction. You can ignore that stuff if you want or write your own story about how she loses her alicorness. I don't give a damn as long as it's a good story.

Canon is a tool for authors to use. If it becomes a bad tool, you should stop using it.

In fact if I could wish for anything to be changed in this episode it would be one of two wishes: Wish 1 - that they had used all the time they needed because this was clearly a well planned event that should have been developed more.

Why don't we just trade out Spike at Your Service for a second part to the finale?

834524 Well, Twilight STATES that Starswirl didn't understand the magic of friendship. They make a distinction in the episode itself, so you can call it my headcanon, but unless you want to argue semantics (spell and magic have never in any language or dictionary meant the same thing) I'd say they event went out of their ways to point out that it was different.

834537 yep, I like your theory as well!

Great review and I agree with everything ya said. And your right, Celestia did say a new form of magic, not a new spell. And I love Cats Great musical, thought the music was pretty good but the episode itself was way to compressed and really needed to be a multi-part episode.

Maybe the first half with the switched cutie marks, then the second half with her becoming and Alicorn and the coronation ceremony. Other then it being to compressed I think it was a good episode and I enjoyed it. I can't wait for season 4 to start and see what happens.

There was ONE thing I didn't like about this episode, OTHER than Discord being gone, since, technically, as much as I LOVE alicorn Twilight, She COULD have been avoided with use of Discord, because couldn't he just I don't know, snap his fingers and fix it? anyway, the ONE thing I didn't like is this: we hear CELESTIA sing, and wonderfully I might add, but then, NO LUNA?!?!? COME ON!!!! QUIT TEASING ME!!!!

834512 834542 834543 Curse your superior logic, it causes me to drink.

As for the rest of you haven't you ever heard of being Discord's Advocate?

Wanderer D, you are my favorite person.

D, it seems I have no choice other than to engage with you in mortal combat.

And since I have no hope of defeating you in a physical engagement, I propose a battle of wits.

And/or Chess.

TO THE DEATH.

I'll see you there. >:D

>why oh why isn't Starswirl or Rarity even a unicorn?

Rarity is a unicorn, wanderer.

Oh for heaven's sakes. Are there actually people hung up on the spell thing, still?

I admit, I was ever-so-slightly worried that they'd trip over their own canon a bit, and make ascension a part of making a new spell, but I didn't really believe they would, and they didn't. Apparently she created a love-fueled spell, and not a unicorn-magic fueled one. A very different beast. (I should know, I'm 100k words into a fic exploring the same 'Friendship is Magic, literally' concept ). She created an entirely new system for spellcasting. The poor changelings are no doubt quaking in their hole-filled boots and speculating on the economic disaster of Peak-Love right now.

Are we really going to assume that the pony who invented the spell to grow a mustache is an immortal demigod somewhere?
Or the one that makes a free-standing door? Perhaps the spell that can turn curtains into a dress?

Obviously not.

834537
Yeah, I pretty much agree. I think Starswirl was trying to create an Alicorn Apotheosis spell, but despite his power and magical talent, didn't have the deep friendship and understanding of its importance that Twilight does. Therefore, his spell doesn't work as intended, but it does do something Twilight said impossible back in S1 - it can swap ponies cutie marks!

As always, or at least usually, Wanderer D proves that he's a sane and logical person by making perfect to near-perfect sense.

Honestly, I don't know the feel I am feeling about this episode, but I believe it is an accepting one...

And you make the point about fanfiction. It's FAN fiction. 'nough said.

You liked it, eh?

834627 I'll settle for a battle of wits not puns.

What the hell are you on? I respect you as a writer but you can't say that this episode was anything but the worst thing that ever hit the franchise including G3.

Faust must be turning in her grave if she wasn't still alive. As it is I find it obvious why she couldn't stand working on the mlp team anymore. I couldn't either if I had created something like she did, and the corporate overlords twisted her arm into making it something like this.

I understand you completely LF. Never work with anything where you don't have full creative control and holds all the copyrights, then noone can piss all over your work like Hasbro have done now.

This was a hit to the fandom that I don't think we can recover.

So what magics did the other princesses invent to get their alicorn-ness?
Cadence doing Love magic is pretty obvious, and Chrysalis obviously made whatever kind of magic the Changelings use, but what about Celestia and Luna?
And who ascended with the Hate magic Sombra used(since the stallion himself apparently didn't)? Next season's Big Bad, perhaps?

Also! Also also also!
No-one seems to notice that straight-haired "Pinkamina" hadn't been used since Season 1!
Headcanon shift: Pinkie's hair doesn't deflate for just any bad mood. It only happens when the shift is so severe that she stops being Pinkie altogether.
This paints all of the "Pinkamina Slashers" in a whole new light.

834556

That's really part of the problem I have with this whole Starswirl thing. The way they presented this whole thing just smacks to me of unfortunate implications and sexism. Starswirl was a guy and granted he lived well before Luna and Celestia popped up (And for all we know before anyone had even heard of the Elements of Harmony) and yet he couldn't do this? A guy who had to have leadership qualities in order to be able to teach an apprentice, and had to have been friendly enough for someone to trust him to teach them? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. They're trying to handwave the idea that 'spells and magic aren't the same thing' as the reason behind this. Again, I call bullshit.

If new magic is different from a new spell, then Starswirl still could have qualified simply because time travel is NOT standard magic. The fact that he apparently created time travel magic, something that nobody else could do, still means he created a new kind of magic. Twilight adding something to one of his old spells is not creating new magic or even creating a new spell since it would have been around for centuries. Just without being fully finished. The spell and thus the magic were already there!

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Twilight being an Alicorn. I do have something against the idea that the only reason Starswirl seems not to have been afforded the same upgrade seems to be solely because he was a male character, and all male characters in the show are usually marginalized to the point that they're usually little better than window dressing for the show. The only brief exception was Discord, who went through villain decay absurdly fast. Starswirl was the only character whose contribution to society wasn't reduced to nothing, and they have officially done that with this. I know the show is aimed at girls, but come ON. You can't let ONE guy, who lived thousands of years ago be a little bit important? You have to upgrade a character by tearing him down? What the hell?

834695

So what magics did the other princesses invent to get their alicorn-ness?
Cadence doing Love magic is pretty obvious, and Chrysalis obviously made whatever kind of magic the Changelings use, but what about Celestia and Luna?
And who ascended with the Hate magic Sombra used(since the stallion himself apparently didn't)? Next season's Big Bad, perhaps?

Uh... Celestia DID SAY that nothing like that had never happened before so presumably they were born as alicorns.

834691

This was a hit to the fandom that I don't think we can recover.

Eh, if it really doesn't work they can always transform her back with a 'friendship' is more important than princess-hood storyline. And honestly, the fandom is another beast altogether than what the average viewers are. Don't take it too personally. A worst thing by far would have been to have Equestria Girls be canon. Now THAT would fuck up everything.

Nope. Guess I'm alone in this. Not a big fan of this episode or season 3 basically in its entirety. This episode was too musical. Awkwardly musical. Like, screw the plot and dialogue and lets sing instead type-awkward. Don't mind Alicorn Twilight though. Was it crammed? Yes, but what do you expect when 90% of it is singing? You could have saved time and summed up the whole first song with Twilight waking up and saying, "Wow, I can just tell it's going to be a great day today!". I think it would have been funnier too; if immediately thereafter she walked outside and got dumped on by a cloud. Don't get me wrong, I love the songs in season 1 & 2, but they were never the entire episode. They were balanced by plot development and character antics. There were so many subtle things in seasons 1 & 2 that made MLP spectacular, at least for me, that were barely present in season 3. Small things that kept the characters from being 1-D, like Fluttershy getting annoyed and saying, "I'm a year older than you.". The facial expressions that went along with character interactions were amazing. Cheerilee's and Big Mac's interactions in Hearts & Hooves day (before the love potion), were absolutely priceless.

I'm with WanderD on one thing though, so long as the fan-fiction stories are good -- I don't care. But if I ever get around to putting my story ideas into actual keystrokes and words, I'll probably treat it as if season 3 never happened.

Wanderer D, I am disappoint. You liked... no, wait... You loved this train wreck of an episode that didn't make a lick of sense?

The whole first part about the cutie mark mixup completely defied everything we've been told and shown for the last three years about cutie marks and how they work. It's supposed to represent their special talent, not their "destiny" that compels them to perform a certain job. (If it was that, Rarity would have been working in the gem mines from the beginning.)

The rest of the show, where Twilight becomes an alicorn, was handled entirely wrong (from my viewpoint). This should be a mysterious, confusing and frightening turn of events for Twilight Sparkle. For her to not freak out over it in some way just seems wrong. I didn't care for Twilight and Celestia holding a confab on the Celestial Plane or wherever they were, either. Writer cop-out.

In addition to the whole toy-selling aspect, it also seemed like they were trying to wrap up the whole series. It was as if this episode was produced during a time when they didn't expect to ever have a Season 4. And now they're stuck with it. Over on EqD, I saw where Meghan McCarthy tweeted about this episode being effectively the first part of a three-parter. Okay. My interpretation is that they'll need two episodes to do damage control and get the story line, setting and characters back onto some kind of track that they can work with.

Oh, and one more thing... This episode had lots of songs. I know a lot of people love them, but they just don't do anything for me. Maybe I'm tone deaf. Maybe I have a bag of nails instead of a heart, I dunno. I just think somebody needs to tell them that musicals went out with the 1960s.

834752

I still don't think buy that. If that's the case, then that just makes it worse because if that is the case then no matter what Starswirl would have done, he still would never have been able to be afforded the same upgrade Twilight got, and again, all known wielders of the Elements have been female. So then that means that Starswirl was SOL just on account of being a guy! So why the hell is Celestia singling the poor guy out just to tear him down when he never had a chance of this kind of upgrade to begin with?!

My headcannon is as follows:

Starswirls last theoremspell was obviously powerful and ancient magic. Changing destiny itself? That is no small feat! It would seem to me that Starswirl was actually trying to change his own destiny and become an Alicorn. The spell is an ascension spell. He simply never managed to complete it since he did not understand the friendship part of the Elements of Harmony. Twilight managed to fix the spell because she DOES understand all possible facets of the magic needed to power this spell. This is why she ascended when she wrote down and cast that spell: It did what it was supposed to do in the first place.

This also explains why Celestia made such a big deal out of it all.

Wonderful episode, I gave it a 8/10. I substracted 1 point for the coronation sequence at the end because it seemed a bit jarring to me. It required a bit more conflict and confusion over her new role in my opinion. The other is because Twi managed to so quickly solve the cutie mark problem. I guess both can be blamed on time constraints though. And the conflict over her transformation might occur in early Season 4 (Bumping this episode up to a 9/10)

I especially loved the ascension scene with Celestia and Twilight walking past all her old memories. It truly made me feel bittersweet. The gags where lovely and the songs where catchy or meaningful. Color me impressed!

Go to IHOP D.

You forgot that Derpy is back!

834884 Is there a discount going on today?

Personaly I'm abit dissapointed about this episode. Mainly because it felt SO rushed. This could easily have been a 3 or even a 4 parter and STILL be rushed. Secondly, I HATE musicals. Don't get me wrong, I love songs. Just not more songs than actually talking.

But you bring up a very good point about why Twilight became an alicorn with all the new magic and things. I can now safely say that I completely accept the terms of which Twilight became an Alicorn.

I can not yet say if I like that she did become an alicorn or not though. I hoped this episode would clear up about what this means. She is now an alicorn and a princess, yes, but what does it mean? What does this do for the show? Is she immortal now? Has she got super awesome magic? Will she need to do any princessy stuff?

Quite honestly if we assume every alicorn currently alive was at the corrination (which i do assume by the way) then every single one is a princess of a "kingdom"... except Twilight. And before someone says "The writers has said she wont have to leave her friends" I say that I expect something like that to happen. Infact I'll be bummed out if a "princess" is just a title like any other "lord" or whatever. If the only change from this is the addition of wings I'll be sad.

// Sphex

834920

We don't know that he was trying to turn himself into an Alicorn. In fact she never said what his spell was actually supposed to do. But she DID single him out today in saying that Twilight had supposedly done something even he couldn't do. But the way it was referenced really made it seem like she was taking a shot at him for no real apparent reason. She could have said that Twilight did something no magician had ever attempted. But no. She specifically said Starswirl, and this despite it being a blatant lie since we know that if all the spells in the Starswirl the bearded wing were actually made by Starswirl himself, then he literally invented a whole new field of magic that very few could even attempt. This does not mean that other unicorns couldn't do it, since once one writes down the method to work a spell or form of magic, anyone can try and some might succeed in replicating it, it does however mean that Starswirl created it. And yet despite creating an entirely new type of magic (Time travel) he doesn't get the same upgrade Twilight did just for adding something to an old spell he never finished for whatever reason?

I.

Call.

Bullshit.

The only impact i think this will have on the fandom, is that certain jokes and memes will be based on a new calender system.

This might also apply to the site, I mean, there'll probably be another tag to search for stories that excludes or includes Alicorn Twilight.

There should now be B.A.T.- Before Alicorn Twilight
and it's counterpart, I.P.T.- Imperio Principem Twilight (The Reign of Princess Twilight)

The level of derp on the finale as Twilight transforms. You see the elements of harmony STILL on the girls after that whole getting vaporized scene, they have them on!

next they leave the tree house and NONE are wearing them. When Fluttershy comes in to comment on Twilight's new form, she's STILL WEARING IT!

After that NONE are wearing the elements.

THIS can only mean one thing. They are undecided as to what route they shall take. DID Twilight actually manage to take in ALL the powers of the elements of Harmony and become 'complete' thus, IF they wanted to, should they phase out her friends by s5 they can use the gimmick that Twilight is able to use the elements the way her mentor once did to banish Luna's Nightmare Moon self. AND possibly meaning that if S4 tanks because of what they will likely try and due, with all the new toys they have planned that won't be shown till episodes are, you still have Discord who can HARD RESET the series.

That's all speculations, but so far my detective skills has proven to bare fruits months in advance so far ;3
SO we'll see what the official word on the elements are far as to whether the other 5 are still needed to use the full force of Harmony or, they merely enchance Twilight's use of it. Assuming of course she now can solo the spell.

But yes, Celestia SINGING was most epic. THE SHIPPINESS OF THE GIRLS RESTORATIVE SINGING WAS AWESOME!!!
True True Friend is indeed on my tops of best songs. Ironically just before the last verse during TRUE TRUE FRIEND HELPS A FRIEND IN NEED I get a call that destroys the mood proving there are no true true friends indeed :P BITTERSWEET IRONY!

Your complaints mirror mine perfectly. Loved the episode, but it could've been longer, and I was certain that Discord's release was planned for this event.

834691

This was a hit to the fandom that I don't think we can recover.

If you're right, then the fandom deserves to go lay down in some corner and die.

I see a lot of anger but not a single coherent argument why this episode was supposedly so bad and awful and fandom-busting. Personally, I'm convinced it's nothing but fear of change, and anger over people having their fanon becoming overridden by canon. Tough luck, that's what being a fan of a living, ongoing show means.

834722
The beauty of it is that either reading is perfectly reasonable, and I bet there are numerous other ways to take it as well.

834917
IDK. But their chicken fajita omelet is great hangover food.

834666 This is my headcanon for the spell (at least, until it's contradicted by canon or I see something I like better).

She, in Celestia's own words 'Created new Magic', not a new spell. Starswirl the Bearded was completing a traditional spell, a really amazing one to be sure, but still using traditional/normal unicorn magic. What Twilight did was create a spell using magic created from her friendship with RD, Rares, FS, AJ, and PP. The Elements of Harmony served as a medium, to be sure, but she's the one that created the spell using the magic of friendship.

That's what earned her her wings.

But sh didn't create a new magic; she used an existing magic in a new way. The magic of friendship is essentially what makes the Elements of Harmony work; ergo, the magic already exists and didn't need to be created by a pony born at least a thousand years after the Elements (and, one can assume, the magic that makes them work) were created in the first place. So the people making the complaint that Twilight did the same thing as Starswirl the Bearded (took existing magic and used it in a new way) are exactly right. Granted, this may be the first time that the magic of friendship was used as a formal spell but the fact is, it was still an existing magic that Twilight created a new spell to use.

The question of what's special about Twilight, beyond being the Element of Magic and the personal protege of Princess Celestia, is still up in the air. I may think she's best pony (because, yanno, she is) but the opinion of one fan does not a special pony make.

I myself have no real use for this episode. I already have a fanon in which Twilight is an alicorn and thanks to you, it's handled in a way that's awesome instead of handwaved. Plus... Twilight not bouncing off the walls in epic freakout? That... just doesn't fit the character. She's not a calm take-things-as-they-come pony who could get winged and be like "meh, cool, I've got wings, teach me how to fly Rainbow"; she's brilliant, cool, and extremely high-strung.

I hate music in cartoons. There's a reason that one of my all-time fave cartoons was "Gargoyles" where NO ONE SANG and why I download all episodes of MLPFIM to my harddrive so I can leapfrog all the music.

bleh.
Episode was alright... meh.
I guess I'm sort of disenchanted by it due to two reasons...
1: it was so obvious because hasbro forced it so damn early. Fucking big wigs ruining shit.
2: It all escalated way too quickly,you need more than one episode for that. Yeah, again, hasbro big-wigs and their fucked up brains and all, but still... bleh.

834811 834691

Guess I'm not alone in this. I was going to write more but deleted it all in favor of this:

How I feel about this episode, in the eternal words of Sweetie Bell:

"OH, COME ON!"

Funny I just wrote a really long comment ranting about this episode and then deleted it to re watch it. Its not as bad the second time around but I still think its not a good episode.
The good-
-The sad twi song and cele's song were awesome
-Pinkemina Diane Pie
-Rainbow just kinda worked in this episode. Whenever she was on screen she was actually pretty funny and she had I think the most normal (beside shiny and his liquid pride) reaction to the transformation.
-This episode really touches upon how much twi has grown as a character

Now that aside, The bad. The really really bad:
-The entire plot was built upon a contradiction to already established cannon. YOU DON'T MESS WITH CUTIE MARKS
-Songs really took away any sort of reaction of other characters
-Trolestia was at peak Trollestia mode
-No Discord during the whole episode and no Luna during the whole dream sequence thing
-The episode was so rushed that it kinda made big moments like the space Celestia scene have less of an impact.
-How the heck did (for example) rainbow get in fluttershy's home? This just seemed, odd.
-5/7 songs were forgettable
-Twi instantly knows how to fly (this would have made for an interesting dash/twicentric episode)
-The plot felt contrived. Dont really know how else to say that...

Im sure I missed some things but these points stand out the most. Now I am aware that this is part 1/3 (sorta) but as a stand alone, it kinda sucked. Id give it probably 4/10 which is much better than my -99999/10 when I first watched it. Also, just to add that now she is a pretty pony princess, she is less relatable as a character. For the time being anyway.