Some stuff I may or may not incorporate, and a little bit of news. · 3:52am Jun 7th, 2023
First, the news. Work has continued on Chapter Eight, and it's now up past 6,500 words. Hopefully, I'll get motivated and get more done with it tomorrow and have it complete and ready by the end of the day on Saturday.
Second, the stuff I might incorporate. The latest Make Your Mark stuff has been released today, and it's brought with it some interesting tidbits.
Apparently, the producers of G5 have opted to support the idea of a separate civilization of alicorns, or at least more alicorns in the early days of Equestria's history than just Celestia and Luna. Assuming the visuals can be trusted, Opaline was at least familiar with the aforementioned alicorns in her youth, and she herself claims to have originated in a place called Skyros. Now, I've already long operated under the idea that the alicorn population was more than just Celestia and Luna, thanks to the Journal of the Two Sisters and being able to weasel my way around particular statements in the series, so the latter I have no issue with. Skyros is as good a name as any for a civilization of alicorns. The former, however, brings up stuff that I've discussed before. This seems to reinforce her claims that not only has she been around long enough to have interacted with Twilight Sparkle, she apparently is of the same generation as Celestia and Luna. Which implies that, so far as the showrunners are concerned, alicorns are indeed meant to be immortal.
This, unfortunately, gets me wondering if the writers have considered the full ramifications of this decision...and I strongly suspect the answer is 'no'.
Now, I'm going to take a second to step back and discuss two different sorts of world-building - soft and hard. Soft world-building, at least by my reckoning, is where you provide a framework and basically let other people build upon it. MLP:FiM is, in a way, an example of that, but other examples include the original works of Hayao Miyazaki. Hard world-building, is where you come up with a world in minute detail - cultures, language, history going backwards and forwards, et cetera - and leave very little room for vague details. Tolkein's Legendarium? Hard as a rock. Many works sit somewhere in the middle - some works are harder than others, and I suspect that J. Michael Straczynski put a lot more pre-planning into Babylon 5 than Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas ever did for Star Trek or Star Wars. Neither system is better or worse than the other, and both have their advantages. Not everybody can make things up as they go, and even those that are exceptionally good at doing so can trip over themselves if they aren't careful. Still, going in with some stuff established, a framework or foundation for others to build upon, is always a good idea, and while you might quibble over how it was done, Lauren Faust and her early collaborators did leave a foundation with G4 that her successors as showrunner, and now the showrunners for G5, can build upon.
But one problem that many writers run into is that sometimes, they don't think things through. I try my best to think things through with my writing, a hard learned lesson thanks to my time working on the Quiververse, and while I'm not perfect at it, I at least do my best to not repeat mistakes. A lot of writers, both professional and amateur, seemingly don't think things through - the professionals get a little leeway, however, especially with shows that are ultimately vehicles to sell toys (though some fare better than others). In this case, I suspect the notion of alicorn immortality is one case where it might not be due to corporate mandate, but simply due to the writers working off what's been implied and continuing from there.
I'm ambivalent about the idea of alicorn immortality. My issue is more the mechanics. My personal headcanon, based upon the aforementioned Journal of the Two Sisters, was that alicorns weren't immortal, simply long-lived in comparison to other ponies. Celestia and Luna's immortality was an exception, the result of their respective bonds with the sun and moon. Nothing was established about potential lifespans for Cadance or Twilight (and Flurry Heart likely hadn't been conceived of when the book was written), but one could infer that they weren't immortal, simply long-lived. I was content to stay with that, but if something came along later to supplant it or question it, I was okay with that too, especially in light of that same book not being completely acknowledged within the series. Now, however, questions have basically been raised.
The first question is, what sort of immortality do alicorns possess? Are they completely immortal, immune to the ravages of time and age and simply unable to die? Can they briefly die, only to come back shortly thereafter assuming the right conditions? Or are they immortal under certain conditions - unable to die of old age, but still vulnerable to illness or injury? The second question is, does this only apply to natural-born alicorns such as Celestia, Luna, Flurry Heart and, apparently, Opaline, or to all alicorns? And the next question is, does this mean that the alicorns we know from the original series are still out there, and if so, why aren't they intervening to stop Opaline's actions? I don't know if the showrunners have considered those questions, but I suspect they haven't, if only because they want the current generation to defeat their foe rather than rely on the old guard.
Previously, I said that I was disinclined to give Opaline's statements any weight - bad guy, after all, and bad guys do lie. Now, the show itself is giving me an out here - Opaline has demonstrated the ability to drain magic, and possibly life forces, from other creatures, so it's possible that she's sustained herself that way. I'm not inclined to go down that road, but based on the available information, it is a possibility, one that I doubt the showrunners intended.
Regardless, as I said, I did have some ideas for the possibility of alicorns being confirmed as immortal. For the time being, I'm gonna think it over, and thankfully, I have plenty of time to worry about it. And the option to ignore it is always on the table...but that feels a little bit like a cop-out.
Like I said, plenty of time to worry about it.
Glad to hear of progress on Chapter Eight.
And the new material from Make Your Mark is definitely food for thought.
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Definitely something that I'm gonna be chewing on for a while.
I mean, every single dragon is already immortal. During Starswirl's generation dragon Torch is already his full-grown self, and a century is considered a "short nap" for them. (Either that or dragon lifespan is 100 million years)
Celestia and Luna are likely ageless, but not invulnerable.
It's 50/50 how they would address this. In fairy tales people get turned into constellations and that's seen as a "happy ending". Maybe G5 would take that approach. Or not address at all, like how Crystal Brighthouse's sudden appearance was never addressed (renovation from TYT does not count).
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Immortal or really long-lived? I admit, sometimes there's no difference, but still, everything has its limits.
As for how they address it, I'm not confident that they will. The showrunners seem content to let this stuff remain vague, for good or ill.
Keep up the good work!
As for Opaline and the 'true' nature of Alicorns, I honestly have no idea. Cryptic as it sounds, only time will tell, imho.
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That it will, but I strongly suspect that the writers are purposely leaving things vague.
Great to hear about your progress, and like you, I'm hoping that you get more of it done by this weekend.
Now, that said, this
got me to thinking about another set of immortals from my favorite comic books series Elfquest.
If you know anything about its lore, especially in reference to the elf tribes (not including the trolls of the World of Two Moons/Abode, but being a long-time reader/fan, I suppose it pertains to them, too), you'd learn that all pure-blooded elves (like the Sun Folk, Gliders; etc.), are immortal, but the conditions for death atre like the ones that you posited above (are they immortal under certain conditions - unable to die of old age, but still vulnerable to illness or injury).
In fact, from what I know about the elves of Abode, the only truly mortal tribe among them are my No. 1 favorite tribe among them, the Wolfriders, formerly led, before his death, by Cutter Kinseeker, Blood of Ten Chiefs, now led by his daughter, Ember, Blood of Eleven Chiefs.
And the only reason that they're mortal, unlike the rest of their pointy-eared kin, is because they have the blood of wolves running in their veins, thanks to the efforts of Timmain the Self-Shaper, last of the High Ones, changing her form to that of a she-wolf, and in time mating with the leader of the local wolf pack, and birthing the first chief of the Wolfriders, Timmorn Yellow-Eyes.
(Heh, sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there.
)
Anyway, the point that I was making is that pure-blooded elves are immortal and can't die as we do, but they can die due to accident, disease, or animal or human attacks.
Similar to your theory about the alicorns in the Quiververse.
Anyway, again, glad to hear that you're making more progress on Chapter 8, and I hope it continues to be so.
Got my fingers crossed for that, hun.
And I need to get my butt in gear and watch Chapter 4 of Make your Mark.
Sounds like I'm missing some cool stuff!
Thank you for the status update on Chapter Eight. Fingers crossed for it to keep going well. :)
And on the revelations from the latest Make Your Mark stuff... I admit I have yet to get caught up, but what I know already made me aware it's not compatible with some of the ideas that I've had... although in my personal case, considering how much I'm already ignoring or reworking, it would be just one more for the list if I did (and like you said you haven't in your case, I haven't decided for mine either).
That said... speaking about your words on your 'verse, the final decision on how to handle Opaline's claims about alicorns is yours. I personally would accept it just fine if you chose to simply ignore the new elements, especially because, as you said, the writers may not have thought things through. (Though for that matter, me saying this is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, as I seem to run the gamut of thinking things so through in some ways that I barely write and missing obvious things in other areas that I then have to try to work around or either just take the mistake.)
Either way, while I do think it's fine if you simply ignore it, that is only my opinion. I know others may disagree, and if you choose to take their opinions into account, that's perfectly valid. And even if everyone else agreed with me, what matters is what you want to do in the end, so if you feel if simply ignoring the new elements is a cop-out and want to at least try to incorporate them, that's perfectly valid too. :)
As another aside... funnily enough, the idea you mentioned regarding Opaline draining life force to extend her lifespan is an idea that I did have for one character in my AU, although they're not an alicorn, or even a pony. (I promise, this is just me pointing out the coincidence and nothing else, as the general concept is something that doubtlessly came up in several works of fiction.)
But at the end of the day... speaking for myself, whatever you choose to do with the elements Opaline introduced, I look forward to seeing what it is, and wish you the best of lucks in your planning, and hope nothing else G5 introduces will make things more difficult for you.
As always, wishing you the best, on writing and all other fronts. :)
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I'm only tangentially familiar with ElfQuest. My thoughts on alicorn immortality were drawn mostly from Tolkein's treatment of the elves. Still, thank you for illustrating another example of what I was talking about.
You're missing some potentially interesting stuff, certainly.
5732332 Cool.
Ah, gotcha.
And you're very welcome.
Oh?
Guess I'll have to correct that post haste.
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What you do for your stuff is perfectly acceptable. Me choosing to ignore G5, like I said, is an option, and clearly perfectly viable for the both of us. I'm still considering it for my part, and time will tell what I ultimately decide.
And best of luck to you as well.