Featured In15

More Stories13

  • E Skinless, Maneless, Hoofless, Fearless

    Applebloom is dying, and AJ must come to terms with it...
    3,830 words · 1,446 views  ·  73  ·  2
  • E 9-4-6-1-2-4-2

    What do the numbers mean?
    5,260 words · 1,825 views  ·  120  ·  10
  • E My Little Plushie

    A brony's wish comes true.
    4,561 words · 3,058 views  ·  133  ·  18
  • T Usurped Dawn

    A man is tasked with assassinating Princess Celestia.
    21,852 words · 2,740 views  ·  159  ·  23
  • T PewDiePie Saves Equestria

    The famed Swedish gamer must go on an incredible journey to save the land of ponies.
    19,527 words · 9,973 views  ·  204  ·  34
  • E I Have No Mouth and I Must Squee

    Fluttershy wakes up without her mouth. Who took her mouth?
    2,674 words · 520 views  ·  34  ·  3
  • T Terminus

    Something has attacked Manehattan, and seven friends must escape the city or die trying.
    16,385 words · 330 views  ·  35  ·  4
  • E Wings

    The mini-diary of Rainbow Dash as a jet pilot for the USAF
    3,873 words · 965 views  ·  40  ·  6

Blog Posts120

  • 1w, 5d
    Nicest Brony Award

    I'd just like to quickly point out a brony and FimFic-er that, in my opinion, espouses the best things about this fandom: friendship, love, snuggles, and most of all, magic.

    His name his Honeytongue. Were I not on my phone Id provide a link to his page, but nevertheless I say go check him out. If you're ever feeling down and need someone friendly and kind to talk to, Honeytongue is your guy. Check him out!

    1 comments · 11 views
  • 1w, 6d
    Rainbow Rocks

    Is it any good? I'm almost afraid to watch it after the first. I didn't think the first one was awful, but something about it (and the whole EQG idea) rubs me the wrong way. But apparently I've heard a lot of people like it. What about you?

    Also wtf happened to this site?

    5 comments · 22 views
  • 2w, 1d
    Writing other fanfiction

    I've gotten into writing stories based on game series done by popular YouTubers. It sounds weird but I find it fun, plus it's a good way to practice my writing for both my pony fiction and my non-fan fiction.

    Currently I'm writing a literary version of FRANKIEonPCin1080p's DayZ series. I'm also considering writing literary versions of Jester814's "The Right Price" ARMA 3 series as well as the achievement hunter Minecraft lets plays.

    That is all

    0 comments · 7 views
  • 3w, 13h
    I have a list. I need opinions, please.

    I have stories that I'm working on, but there are some other ideas I've had for a while. And I wanted to see if any of you like them enough to where I should actually write them.

    So here goes.

    1. A prequel to 9461242. The original story, in my opinion, was okay but suffered from the fact that either everything was too obvious or everything was way too vague, and I think an explanation for exactly what happened to cause the events of 9461242 is long overdue. But that's up to you guys. Possible title: 9461242: Origins

    2. The third Big Macintosh story, i.e. a sequel to The Little Red Colt and The Crimson Fence. I did say a long time ago that there would be a third part but never got around to writing it. Would you guys like to see a conclusion to the so-called "trilogy"? Let me know. Possible title: The Scarlet Stallion.

    3. A horror/grimdark in the style of PT. Not sure how I'd pull that off, but given the simple complexity of PT, I'm sure I can come up with something. One possible idea involves Princess Luna trapped in a never-ending loop of a hallway in Canterlot Castle, as the demented ghost of a familiar pony haunts her. Possible title: Umbra (I might make a trilogy out of it, with the other stories being Penumbra and Antumbra).

    I've got some others bouncing around in my head if anyone's interested

    3 comments · 19 views
  • 3w, 2d
    New Song

    What do you think?

    0 comments · 8 views
  • ...


I had a dream last night.

In my dream, I was flying with Rainbow Dash, flying high above the clouds, watching Equestria unfold below us. We laughed and we smiled, trying to outfly each other. She didn’t seem to mind that I was human. She only wanted to have fun, and I was perfectly content with that.

We flew until the sun dipped over the horizon, and by then the sky was fiery orange. But when I looked up I felt intense heat on my face, and I smelled smoke. Dash said something to me, but I had gone deaf. Then I realized that the sky didn’t just look like it was on fire; it was on fire. The clouds had turned to blobs of ugly black smoke, and columns of flame burst from the sky’s maw, trapping us in a cage of fire. My hearing returned, and I heard the hungry roar of the flames. I heard my heart beat faster. I heard Rainbow Dash gasp for air.

Then it appeared.

A monster, unlike anything I’d ever seen before. It seemed to be made of the very flames from which it had just emerged. I saw its crimson eyes, its holocaustic teeth, and I heard it bellow in a voice that knocked us both from the sky and shook the ground that we collapsed upon.

It bore down on us. I had no energy left. I couldn’t move. I was bleeding. Rainbow Dash was crying…with fear? Realization? Or maybe…helplessness?

I never found out. At that moment, the fiery monster was practically on top of us. I didn’t know what to do.

The monster was going to kill me.

Then suddenly, out of nowhere, Rainbow Dash threw herself in front of me. Before either of us could make a sound, the fiery monster slammed into her, and I saw a look of helpless pain rip across her face. Her tears evaporated, her wings singed, and her rainbow hair caught fire. But she didn’t scream, nor did she writhe.

Rather, she looked at me.

Her eyes were wide with fear, and for the first time I realized that the famed Rainbow Dash was not invulnerable. She began to hyperventilate as her chest glowed red. She said something, many things, but I didn’t hear her.

She knew what was going to happen. Closing her eyes, she let herself be consumed by the flames.

Rainbow Dash disappeared inside a vortex of fire. As I screamed, the vortex contracted and then exploded, hurling a wall of fire toward me. I could do nothing but curl up in a protective position and wait for the flames to swallow me whole.

Nothing happened.

I looked up. The flames were gone. It was daytime. A few flecks of ash were all that remained of the great pegasus Rainbow Dash.

That, and the beautiful, iridescent rainbow that stretched over the cloudless sky…

That was last night. I had awoken the next morning bathed in sweat, so much so that the guy in the bed beneath me, Private Jimmy Tochak, thought I had pissed myself through the mattress.

For some reason, during my time in Afghanistan, training at Bagram Airfield or running patrols outside Kawari, nothing stood out as much as the dream. I couldn’t decide whether it was a dream or a nightmare. I’d been through hell and back in Afghanistan, dodging bullets and bombs, watching friends get killed or wounded so badly they wished they were dead. Not a day went by during my time there when I didn’t feel like I wouldn’t live to see tomorrow.

But then…

There I was now, sitting at the foot of my bunk in the barracks. It was 1102 hours. My unit was set to patrol Kawari within an hour. It was a cool August day, at least, cool for Afghani standards. The thermometer in the window read 93° Fahrenheit. And yet I was so cold, so utterly chilled…

Rainbow Dash…

My daughter, Julia, was the one who got me into My Little Pony. When my unit, the 13th Army Expeditionary Unit, ended combat operations in Iraq, I went home to my wife and daughter in Connecticut, if only temporarily. I knew I wouldn’t be in the States for long. We were taking casualties in Afghanistan, and though Obama kept preaching to the choir about troop withdrawal, I knew that we were being shuttled out of one shithole and dumped into another.

Still, the day I came home from Iraq was one of the happiest days of my life. I remember the snow falling outside and the happy shrieks that burst from Julia and her mother when I knocked on the door. I remembered our Siberian husky, Michelle, practically spazzing out with joy. Even our neighbors, the Thompsons, who had cousins in Iraq, came over. It was a night of happiness, of elation.

But it wouldn’t last. I was home no longer than two weeks. But those two weeks, I will never forget. Julia, then nine, had lost another tooth. My wife, Loren, had gotten promoted at her law firm. Everything seemed to be going well.

Then I had to tell them that I was going back.

Loren protested. Julia bawled and begged. Even Michelle seemed to avoid me, ducking away whenever I tried to pet her. I had suddenly become an enemy to my family, and I couldn’t blame them.

It is what it is, I had told Loren three days before I had to ship out. I have to do this.

I knew that every day she feared that she would get a phone call or that a man would knock on the front door and tell her that her husband was dead. I knew she worried to the point where she tried to Skype me nearly every week. I knew what would happen if Julia had to find out that she no longer had a father.

I knew, but I didn’t want to think about it.

The day before I went to Afghanistan, I caught my daughter in front of the television, absentmindedly stroking Michelle’s fur, her eyes glued to the screen. I sat down beside her and asked what she was watching.

“My Little Pony,” she replied, smiling. “It’s my favorite.”

Of course, I had heard about My Little Pony before, but this was back in the 90s when they were just objects of marketing ploys aimed at little children. This show seemed different. The characters were well-rounded, the content was amusing, and little by little I found myself engrossed with the ponies of Equestria…

“Oh yes, she loves that show,” Loren had said. “Can’t get enough of it. She’s got toys and dolls of it in her room.”

So I went up to Julia’s room and found, alongside with typical nine-year-old-girl bedroom material, pony figurines, pony drawings, and pony coloring books. Half the room was dedicated to ponies.

I felt safe in that room, for some reason. I felt like I belonged.

And so it began.

The day of my deployment, at JFK Airport, after our hugs and kisses and tearful goodbyes, my Julia stopped me one last time.


I turned around, the blast of the air-conditioning ruffling my fatigues. She ran up to me, Loren close behind. She was wearing her Disney princess shirt and a purple jacket, but she held something light blue in her hand. Her eyes glittered with tears as I knelt down to her.

“What is it, sweetie?”

Hiccupping, she stretched out her hand, revealing the blue object.

It was a pony figurine, a cyan, winged horse with a mane of rainbow hair, and a multicolored lightning bolt across its flank.

“This is Rainbow Dash, Daddy,” Julia said sadly. “I want you to have her.”

I was shocked. I didn’t know what to say. “But, Julie, that’s your toy…”

“Rainbow Dash represents the spirit of loyalty,” my daughter whispered. “She won’t leave you, Daddy. She’ll always be with you.”

My heart leapt at that point. I hugged my daughter so hard that I was afraid I might choke her, so I pulled away and fought back tears of my own.

“Thank you, honey,” I said, taking the pony from her hands and slipping it into my pocket. “You’ll always be with me, too.”

I kissed her cheek, and she wrapped her little arms around my neck.

I never wanted to let go.


I had been running my fingers over the plastic pony, daydreaming, when the sharp bark of my commanding officer brought me to attention. The Rainbow Dash figurine fell from my hands and, thankfully, rolled out of sight next to my trunk.

“Yes, Sergeant!” I called, standing at attention.

Sergeant Lionel Kassel, referred to by some as Lion Castle, stood in the doorway of the empty barracks. A powerfully built, battle-hardened man, his dark eyes matched his skin, stone-cold, icy. He was a no-nonsense kind of guy. Men who make sergeant generally are.

“Corporal Wolfe,” he said, addressing me and stepping further. “Your convoy rolls out for Kawari at 1230 hours. Explain to me why you are not dressed and ready to go.”

His voice was low, but not scathing. I had to pick my answer carefully. Staring straight ahead, I said, “I have no explanation, Sergeant!”

“Well then, Corporal, let me explain something to you: if I don’t see your sorry hide at Hanger 3, fully dressed and geared, in the next half-hour, I will put you on KP until the next rotation. Is that clear, Corporal?”

“Yes, Sergeant!”

“Get to it, soldier!” He turned on his heel and walked out.

I sighed and was about to get dressed when I remembered the Rainbow Dash figurine. Stooping down, I clutched it and observed it, wondering if I should bring it with me.

My daughter’s voice drifted into my mind. She’ll always be with you, Daddy…

I sighed and got ready, putting on my fatigues and slipping the plastic pegasus into the chest pocket.

I was geared in less than fifteen minutes, and when I stepped outside, I was blinded by the sun and slammed by the heat, both of which I had assumed I had gotten used to. Bagram was rife with activity today. A-10s and Blackhawks flew overhead as Humvees rolled down the tarmac. Crossing the base, I finally reached Hanger 3, catching sight of my men, armed and prepared. Sergeant Kassel was addressing them.

“…expect little crossfire, but the locals think Hazaras and Tajiks may be at each other’s throats in Kawari territory. This is a routine convoy assignment; get to Bravo Point, drop off the supplies, then get the hell out. Short and sweet. Private Tochak, I want you in Wolfe’s Humvee as gunner. Schmidt and Lewis, ride with Velazquez in the truck. Everyone else, to your usual positions. Let’s roll out!”

A cry of Hooah! rose up from the soldiers, and I joined in, even though I knew this was going to be a walk in the park.

See, I keep saying that I know things. But that, I didn’t know. I didn’t think it would be hard. I didn’t think that by the end of the day, more people whom I had come to call friends would be dead than ever before.

I never could have known.

Planning on vacationing around the world? Take my advice. Skip Afghanistan. Just imagine the Mojave Desert, except it’s filled with people that hate you. That’s how the place felt. I was riding shotgun in my Humvee. The driver, a private named Collins, wore aviators that were too big for his face. Dust practically blinded our vision as we drove along the unpaved road on our way to Kawari.

“So, Ben,” Collins said with a Texas drawl.

“So what?”

“So anything. I dunno, what else is there to talk about?”

“How about we don’t talk, and you keep your eyes on the road?”

“Oh, sure. What am I gonna do, hit a dust cloud? Maybe a scorpion or some shit?”


“Fine, fine, just tryin’ to make conversation.”

That was Ryan Collins for you. Never knew when to shut up, but a helluva good soldier.

A voice crackled over the radio. “Gold Four, come in. Over.”

I picked up the radio. “Roger, this is Gold Four, go ahead.

“Gold Four, this is Gold One, be advised, possible rocket fire coming from Kawari, northwest, about 113 degrees. Eyes on smoke trails, but no confirmed targets, over.”

I frowned. Rocket fire? “Gold One, acknowledged. Be prepared for possible enemy contact, but continue mission.”

“Solid copy, Gold Four. Out.”

I leaned back in my chair, feeling sweat drip down my brow. Collins giggled.

“Maybe we’ll kill some towelheads today.”

It was the last thing he ever said.

The moment the first Humvee entered the city limits of Kawari, I knew something was wrong. There were four Humvees in our convoy, followed by two cargo trucks. I was in the fourth Humvee, but I knew something was up. Call it what you will, but I had a feeling like we were in real deep shit.

My suspicions were confirmed when, from nowhere, a rocket screamed down the road and slammed into Gold One, exploding through the windshield.


Private Collins swerved around Gold Three as Gold Two, unable to stop in time, rammed into the back of the burning Humvee. Another rocket spiraled down, and I saw from the trail that it had come from a multistory apartment building to the northeast. The rocket detonated about twenty feet from the burning hulk of Gold One, throwing dust and smoke over the street.

Then the gunfire started, a steady rattle of AKs and M60s. Collins stepped on the gas as I readied my weapon, but suddenly a loud crack! drew my attention, and before I knew what was happening, our Humvee was on a collision course with a columned building.

We rammed the building at about thirty miles an hour, and had it not been for my seatbelt, I would’ve been killed. As my mind cleared and my vision returned to normal, I saw the cause of the accident: Private Collins had taken a sniper’s bullet to the throat, killing him instantly, and his weight had shifted itself onto the gas pedal. I pulled the radio as the battle raged around me.

“This is Gold Four! My driver is down! Multiple contacts to the north and RPG in the multistory building to the northwest!”

I didn’t wait for a response. Above me, Jimmy Tochak was not firing the mounted machine gun, and when his body fell through the opening in the roof of the Humvee, a bloody hole where his left eye had once been, I knew I was on my own.

I stumbled from the wreck of the Humvee. My nose was broken, and I was sure I had a concussion. But when the ground next to my boot snapped up, I became alert, taking cover behind a pillar on the covered sidewalk, returning fire.

It was a bottleneck. The combatants were firing from the north, and a rocket had managed to disable one of the cargo trucks, effectively blocking any way out of the city. We were trapped. The radio was a constant crackle of updates and screams. I heard the phrase “man down” over and over, but soon the gunfire had become so loud that I couldn’t hear anything except a ringing whine.

I fired on the multistory building. I fired down the street. If I saw movement, I fired. Shrapnel had shattered the ACOG scope on my M4A1, and I could barely see as it was.

Something slammed into my heart.


I saw black. The world was spinning. Everything seemed so distant, so muffled. Nobody was coming to save me. I was dead.

I was dead…

When I finally came to, the battle was mostly over. I found out some of our boys had gotten CAS from Phantoms and Apaches to nearly obliterate Kawari. I found myself strapped to a stretcher, the rhythmic thumping of Blackhawk rotors filling my ears.

I wasn’t dead.

But so many others were.

The bullet had gone through my vest, though it had caught on the Kevlar and slowed down minutely. Something else had stopped the bullet. I should have been dead.

The medics said nothing as they loaded me onto the Blackhawk. I didn’t say anything either. I was wondering how I was still alive.

Then I remembered.

Pain shot up my side as I reached into my bloody chest pocket, feeling the bullet hole and biting my tongue to keep from crying out.


I withdrew my hand. In my palm were bloody fragments of plastic and shrapnel, once blue. The biggest piece, torn and marred by the bullet, was covered in my blood, but through the crimson I could see it was a head, a head with rainbow-colored hair…

The pony in my pocket. Shattered, bloodied.

The pony in my pocket saved my life.

I thought back to my dream, when I flew with Rainbow Dash, when she exploded in flame, when she dove in front of me, to…

To save my life.

I smiled. On a day of wanton death, I smiled.

Thank you, Julia.

Thank you, Rainbow Dash.

I’d be lost without you.

I closed my eyes and let sleep overtake me, and my sleep was peaceful and dreamless.

#1 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

It's an old story... but with a new twist.  I approve.

#2 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Wow, That was moving.

Great story, Mate.

#3 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

This was amazing. I swear... you deserve more than one like from me. :pinkiesad2:

#4 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

hope you got more.

#5 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Great story. I love it.

#6 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Rainbow Dash: Saving the day in Ponyville and in Afghanistan!:rainbowdetermined2:

*standing ovation*

#7 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·


I love this. Seriously.  I can't describe how much I like it.

#8 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

“Rainbow Dash represents the spirit of loyalty,” my daughter whispered. “She won’t leave you, Daddy. She’ll always be with you.”

Daughter and RD brohoof /)*(\, they totally saw that coming :rainbowdetermined2:

#9 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Rainbow Dash: saving the Day in fiction AND reality! :rainbowderp:

Man, that's impressive. Very moving, very emotional, and i have absolutely no suggestions, perfect.

I wish I could press the like button more then once...:twilightsmile:

#10 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

So glad y'all liked this. My personal goal is to have at least one story with over 500 views. Think any o' y'all can help me with that? :pinkiehappy:?

#11 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Nice story and congratulations, you just got featured.

#12 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·


#13 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Manly tears were shed brony. Many manly tears... :pinkiesad2::fluttercry:

#14 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

This really touched my heart :pinkiesad2:

#16 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Always nice to see a story that's enjoyable and engaging even when the entire plot is laid out at the start. Well done.

#17 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

you made me cry

you are now liked, faved and watched

FOREVER!! :pinkiegasp:

#18 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

Oh my... I think I am crying. This was wonderfull and well written. Good job.

I have family and friends in the millitary so this really got to me so thank you for writing this.

Time for a fave and thumbs up.

#19 · 135w, 5d ago · · ·

This is beautiful

#20 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Successful, man.  Successful.  To me, this story is a reminder that true loyalty is in the heart and is willing to take what blows it must in order keep friendship alive.

#21 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

That was amazing. I swear I shed a tear somewhere in there. Very touching, and very well-written.:pinkiesmile:

#22 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

grammar... excellent

storyline... excellent

gripping moments... flawless

true to the stories tags... yes

long enough... no

well written... seen worse

chapters... sub-par

ending... abrupt

Max Approves

#23 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

You deserve a party planned by pinkie pie herself.

#24 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·


There's patriotism.

Then there's worshiping...

#25 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

>>332151 If you wanna see thoughtless worship of the military, look at Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy in the 1920's and 1930's. While I agree that some people treat the military like a religion, most men and women who join the armed forces do so in order to fight for those who cannot. Sorry if it sounds like I'm raging, but I have a brother in the marines and your comment kinda got on my nerves.

Now that that's out of my system, awesome work Brony. I felt tears start to well up in my eyes towards the end and that, my good sir, is not easy to do.

#26 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Beautiful story, very touching.

#27 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·


Great story and I hope you reach your goal. Actually, I'll be surprised if you don't shatter it. :rainbowdetermined2:

#28 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

idk y but i didnt cry, heh, i might be a heartless bastard. great story tho

#29 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Loved it, absolutely loved every single bit of it.  Awesome work! :pinkiehappy:

#30 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

So many tears...:fluttercry:

#31 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

:rainbowdetermined2: All in a days work for Rainbow Dash

#32 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

>>331637 Beautiful shit bro. Beautiful shit.

#33 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

:rainbowdetermined2: R.I.P

Raibow dash, fasist pony in all the world,

Was loyal to her friends to the very end

#34 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

great story only problem was the vehicle he was in. first it was gold four and gold one was blown up first and then he was riding in gold one?

#35 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Wow, there is nothing I can say that hasnt been said, but I have to say it was a great story

#36 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·


*stands with, serious face* .... *clap* .... *clap* ...*clap**clap**clapclapclap!!!!*

#37 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Don't ask for "at least 500 views", you deserve at leat 2,000-4,000, this is a beautifully written story

#38 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

:coolphoto: Short, but powerful. Awesome stuff! :coolphoto:

#39 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

I only have one complaint about this, despite the entire thing being outside of my normal sphere of interest.

My complaint is this... At one point the character identifies himself as Gold Four, and later he's become the Gold One he responded to... or at least it very much seems that way.

[ I picked up the radio. “Roger, this is Gold Four, go ahead. ] (and you missed a ")

And then later...

[ I pulled the radio as the battle raged around me.

“This is Gold One! My driver is down! Multiple contacts to the north and RPG in the multistory building to the northwest!”

I didn’t wait for a response. ]

Aside from that, and in spite of not being something I'd normally ever read...I thought it was excellent.

I don't think it needed to be any longer or shorter. It had a simple message to convey, and it did so in the appropriate amount of time, and with the appropriate candor.

#40 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Sir, let me thank you deeply for writing this story. It was a fantastic read, and really struck a personal chord with me. I've been deployed to Afghanistan for the past year, and am happily nearing the end of my stay here. Normally stories about deployments do not get to me like this, but this one struck a note because of the pony; I keep a little pony toy of my own in my chest pocket as well, a gift from my family the day before I left almost a year ago.

Again, thank you so much for writing such a touching story :pinkiesad2:

#41 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

I have to ask... Did this actually happen?

#42 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

That was wonderful.

#43 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Manly tears.

#44 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Touching, action packed, and a military story. You sir, are fucking awesome.

Rainbow saved his life.:rainbowderp: This is amazing.

#45 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

The real cause of the end of the world will be tears :fluttercry: (EPIC STORY BRO!:rainbowkiss:)

#46 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·


#47 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

:rainbowkiss::rainbowlaugh::twilightsmile::pinkiehappy:BRONY SALUTE, i love this story corperal keep up the good work and you may get a promotion

#48 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

Wow amazing

#49 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·



#50 · 135w, 4d ago · · ·

I am almost certain that this actually did happen in some form.

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