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To add on to what other people have said, Trump bypassing Congress for his wall will set a dangerous precedent. The next Democratic president may well use the national emergency excuse to further their own agenda, like banning gun sales because of gun violence.

I’m hoping the courts will make the right decision and block this. I don’t support the wall, but this goes beyond that. It’s ridiculous executive overreach and should not be allowed to stand.

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Yeah, I mean a number of senators and Congress members are calling this out as executive overreach, with others saying it's not, and that this will help stop the drug and sex trafficking

https://www.abs-cbn.com/newsroom/news-releases/2018/12/10/boy-abunda-releases-new-book-nanays-gay-boy?lang=en

Just out of interest, where (in this group or another one) might one post a thread about the political or religious positions of show characters? (Assume that yes, I do know what I'm getting into.)

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Oh my God the Iowa Caucus was a shit show. So here’s some info:

-The app the Democratic Party was using crashed which is why they couldn’t release the results. The app is run by a company called Shadow.

-Shadow literally received payment from Mayor Pete Buttigieg himself.

-The CEO of Shadow is literally married to one of Pete’s advisors.

-It’s members were part of Hillary Clinton’s team back in 2016

-Pete’s campaign literally ran the app the Democratic Party was using to count votes. They could’ve easily tampered with the official results but luckily it broke down. Even then, Mayor Pete’s declaring victory as if it was scripted with 0% of the votes released.

-They weren’t just going to use this app run by Pete in Iowa, BUT IN NEVADA AS WELL.

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I heard on the local news about "issues" involving the caucuses. The primary news story here is a snowstorm so it got little airtime but this is very fishy. I wouldn't trust the results in Iowa and when it comes along, Nevada either. When it comes to who may get an early advantage, I'd look to New Hampshire, not some sham caucus like this.

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Why do we even still have Caucus I have no idea. It’s very telling about the political party if they allow the voting count directly influenced by one of the candidates.

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I have no idea in hell why we still hold caucuses. I think that every state just needs to move to the process of holding a primary, something that isn't going to be influenced by the candidates and in the instance of this, heavily influenced. Using Shadow, LLC is a major conflict of interest in my opinion. I was reading an article on Fox News and some are already saying that this could be the end of Iowa setting the tone for everything on down the road. I think the whole process needs to be reworked so you don't have small states like IA and NH having so much influence. Hell, hold every single primary on the same day.....perhaps the first Tuesday in April....and scrap caucuses entirely. Now that would be something interesting, no one state setting a tone.

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Yeah that could work. I believe the system we have was set up intentionally so it can be influenced by the elites. Dumbest part is there will still be people who support Pete after this just to spite Bernie.

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I don't know a ton about Pete but I do know some about Bernie and he is WAY too far to the left for my liking. I'm simply not far enough in one direction or the other to truly be able to get behind a single candidate.

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I’ll tell you one thing about Pete: He’s got a ridiculous number of billionaires supporting him. That itself is suspicious as fuck.

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It sounds like you're screwed either way but the giant meteor, I'd totally go with that one.

Everyone, I found this article about the truth about how the IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) really is.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/robertojurkschat/red-list-iucn-trophy-hunting?fbclid=IwAR0BcUvsAPfTThCscr7TpoDlfa9GV_qz3TjnVCudaV-abI0ePwX-hC0hjVg

The Coronavirus and the market.....copy and pasted from my thread in The Unsafe Space on 2/24/2020

Well today was a rather nasty day on Wall Street with the Dow dropping over 1,031 points. Yes the number looks big but when you look at the percentage (3.56%) it doesn't look that bad. Still though, that is a lot of market value wiped out and the gains of 2020 have been lost. Also, both the Nasdaq and the S&P 500 lost over 3% as well.

I do think it will increase market volatility around the world but I don't see it being this cataclysm that the fear mongers are claiming. Now if this virus begins to mutate and spreads across the world further, we get more cases and more deaths, then something worse may happen. If you have stocks, hold on tight....it is likely going to be a bumpy ride for a while but don't panic and dump them.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/24/us-futures-coronavirus-outbreak.html

Two big issues.

First, I'll start out with the good one. Joe Biden is now the democrats' presumptive nominee and has recently got big endorsements from Senator Bernie Sanders, President Barack Obama and Senator Elizabeth Warren. What I am hoping for is that those further to the left (Sanders and Warren) can get the more progressive wing of the party to rally around Biden because they will be necessary to defeat the lunatic we have running the show right now. It was because of butthurt Sanders supporters that the freak show known as Donald Trump won in the first place. To save this country, Biden MUST win.

Now for the bad one, yes it involves the freak show. Have any of you watched his recent press conferences as of late? Good grief, he throws tantrum after tantrum and seems to think he has the ability to overrule the decisions of governors when it comes to the states and when they will re-open. He claims that he has total authority as president and states that is how it should be. I know the bastard would throw a fit as would his right wing minions had it been a Democrat who said the same thing. Also we have the problem of Trump and his constant lashing out at the media and the name calling. Never before has a president behaved in such a manner. Yes there have been presidents who got frustrated with the media but never to the point where they would call reporters names.

The solution to fix this, vote for Biden this fall and for Celestia's sake, vote straight line Democrat. The republicans have proven that they aren't fit to run a lemonade stand over the past four years, much less the whole country.

So long as Trump lives, we die.

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Well I'm hoping the bastard gets voted out come November. For the first time in my life I am truly passionate about an election, and this is coming from someone who was a STAUNCH Bush supporter back in the early days. Hell I've even donated to the Biden campaign, which is something I never would have even thought about doing just a few years ago.

I see all the shit that is going on and the shit his supporters are pulling. I do have my concerns about what will happen if he was to get re-elected. I could literally see him ordering his cult members to go out, start killing Democrats and create as much civil disobedience as humanly possible. I do have my concerns regarding Biden too, I could easily see a Trumpist trying to take him out thinking it would be what their "messiah" desires.

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I honestly see the 2020 election as a referendum on the very existence of America. I easily see the Republican effort as a soft-coup path to a complete, authoritarian, ultimately dictatorial takeover of the remains of the American nation. If they win with this, America will truly be dead - America in name only.

In my future-history Conversion Bureau stories, I wrote about how America and the nations of the world fall. First a global pandemic (I chose flu) that kills vast numbers and allows authoritarian rule during the crisis. This is followed by mass starvation and death as the infrastructure of civilization begins to fail. Martial law is declared, civil wars spring up, and a handful of nukes are dropped by terrorist groups and small rogue nations. Then, with no other option left to them, the true behind-the-scenes rulers of the earth - the few hundred wealthiest families that literally own every large corporation, company and means of production - are forced to take over with a mercenary army composed of disenfranchised, starving people willing to do anything to survive. The end result is, over the next subsequent decades, an absolute division between the godlike rich and the globally enslaved poor... but with advances in technology, such as nanotech, everyone on the planet is finally fed and watered - the true Golden Age Of Mankind. There is only one problem - the seas are dead, the air is smog, and most animal life is extinct. In sixty years, the earth will go full venus.

I see what is happening now, and I cannot help but feel it mirrored in that rough future history. If Trump and company win in 2020, if they win absolutely, America will be dead and the path to starvation, crisis and mass death will be our future. A future where wealthy men rule dictatorially, and democracy is a failed social experiment never to be tried again.

Only: there will not be any Bureaus, because Equestria isn't coming. There is no extraversal lifeboat, and there is no escape to another universe of cartoon wonder and beauty. Nobody will get to live forever as a pony in a pocket universe. There will only be more Trump-alikes pillaging the earth until it dies.

Trump cannot win if we are to survive.

I loathe Biden - he is slime. But slime is better, by far, than evil incarnate. I will take a sad putz like Biden over Orange Satan any day of the week! If Biden does not win, I see my future history coming roughly true... minus the bit about ponies saving us.

I don't like a bit of any of this.

As much as it sickens me and as much as I hope I don't live to regret it, I will be voting for Donald Trump this November. As a libertarian I don't feel like either party truly represents my best interests, and since 2008 have refused to go for the "lesser evil" candidate because I have thought that both parties were equally horrible and that lesser evil voting somehow rewarded a candidate for theoretically being less shitty than the other. It has become increasingly clear to me that while both parties are terrible and deserve to go the way of the Whig Party that the democrats are objectively far far worse than the republicans by a very large margin.

Seeing these mostly democrat governors shut down practically their entire economies and start a second Great Depression practically overnight and introduce to America a degree of tyranny that exceeds even the worst abuses of the redcoats and watching a level of bootlicking I have never seen in America before from the far left have convinced me that while both the far left and far right have some disturbing authoritarian tendencies that the modern left has been so completely and thoroughly hijacked by what is in all but name communism that America may not survive unless the democrats lose and lose big time and these kinds of tactics are so unpopular that the mere utterance of them be political suicide in even the darkest blue of blue states.

I never thought I would see the day where people who want to go back to work because they are afraid of becoming homeless and starving to death are viewed as selfish while snitching is viewed as a virtue. I never though people would be so lacking in basic compassion, decency and common sense that they would willingly condemn so many to potential starvation and misery over the illusion of safety. I never thought so many people would be so ignorant of basic economics that they wouldn't even consider for a single second exactly how we are even going to pay for having everyone on welfare and unemployment indefinitely.

If this isn't a lesson at just how important it is for people to understand history, basic economic and how to logic than I don't know what is. Even if the virus is as bad as it is made out to be I hardly see how mass homelessness, starvation, and possibly even mass rioting and civil war are even remotely preferable to people dying from Coronavirus. It is every bit as nonsensical as shooting drivers in the head to save them from dying from car accidents. Quarantining the sick and vulnerable makes sense, but this is going way too far and I want it to end sooner rather than later. Once again I will vote for Trump this November and once the 2022 gubernatorial election comes up in my state, I will most likely vote for Newsoms opponent.

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This is my major concern. Throughout this pandemic, Trump has shown signs of him wanting to be a dictator. During one of his daily press conferences he pretty much said that he was the one in charge. There was a lot of blowback from that and then the next day he said it was all up to the governors. He seems to go in whatever direction suits him best but I know that deep down he wants to rule with no one there to challenge him. He has already stated on multiple occasions that the press is "The Enemy of the People." That was a phrase that Joseph Stalin used on a regular basis. While Trump is definitely not a communist, I know he would love it if he could be an authoritarian leader like him. He already has demanded loyalty from his party and ones who do not (Mitt Romney for example) are ostracized and shamed by not only Trump, but by their brainwashed constituents....there have been calls in the state of Utah to recall him over him voting to convict Trump on one of the articles of impeachment back in February.

I read an opinion piece about how someone thinks that if Trump loses in November, that he will call on his supporters to do anything possible to protect him and I could actually see him doing it. His supporters are flat out lunatics. Anyone that would go into a state capitol building armed with a semi-automatic rifle is a lunatic and the bad thing is, Trump supported these loons that stormed into the House chambers up in Lansing fully armed. Hell I could see him and his supporters starting a civil war just to make sure he can remain in office and I honestly don't trust the military to protect the Constitution when it comes to him. He has been pro-military and I could easily see him promising them that they'd have it made once he was able to crown himself king or whatever and they'd blindly follow his orders. Of course his right wing lunatic wannabe soldier supporters would follow orders without any questions being asked.

Regarding Biden, yeah he ain't perfect by any means but he is a hell of a lot better than Trump. Hell I would vote for a murder hornet before I would him and I'm terrified of stinging insects. I am hoping that he will pick someone good, someone younger to be his VP. I'm hoping he will pick Amy Klobuchar as his running mate. She was my original first choice as I think she could really right this ship. She is younger and she isn't so far to the left that no proposal of hers would get through Congress. Let's just hope that undecided voters and even moderate republicans will see the light and vote for Biden, no matter how much they hate him. I will say this, if Trump wins re-election, America is fucked and will wind up dying.

7214883 If Trump wanted to he could involk the supremacy clause and the 14th amendment and end the lockdowns, but he hasn't. Part of this may be due to potential fears of an another impeachment attempt, and part of it may be an effort to give these governors enough rope to hang themselves, or his interpretation of the 10th amendment may have him believing that it isn't his place to intervene in such a way. Either way he is being rather cautious right now, much more cautious than the bold moves you are saying he is doing or will likely do rather unlikely at this point. If a civil war starts than I doubt it will be Trump that starts it, the most likely cause of another civil war will be people who are frightened, desperate and understandably angry.

I don't want another civil war, and I am sure you don't either but these lockdowns will cause another civil war because they will back people into a corner. If you think people freaking out about toilet paper was bad, just wait until we get Zimbabwe style hyperinflation and the food starts running out.

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I would ask you to consider that we do not live in an economy - we live in a society.

What the economy means is vastly different to a millionaire or a billionaire than it is for the vast majority of wage slaves like you and me.

Other nations, unlike America, take care of their citizens, seeing society as the most important part of what a nation is. America very much values economy over human lives. That is a false concept: it is possible to have both.

If the wealthy paid workers enough to live more than just paycheck to paycheck, if they made working conditions safe even during pandemics, if tax relief was given to ordinary people like yourself as a basic income, at least during catastrophic disasters, and if all citizens were guaranteed medical care as a basic right, then three things would happen: America would have parity with other first world nations, everyone you will ever know would not only be better off but would not die from events such as the current one, and there would be very few - perhaps no - billionaires anymore. But the economy would be just fine.

You will never be a billionaire. Not ever. Neither will I.

A vote for Trump is a vote to keep things exactly as they are, completely designed for the benefit of a wealthy class you will never be part of. In voting for Trump, a person is voting against their own survival, the survival of their family, friends, and every other person they will ever know in their lives. It is voting for an elite class who care nothing for any of us, but only for themselves. It is voting to remain impoverished for life.

Real economic wealth exist because of us: the people who work. We can do that without supporting a parasitic billionaire class. We can do that without making billionaires richer. Voting for Trump is voting for billionaires at our expense. At your own expense.

It isn't just ' the lesser of two evils'. In choosing Biden, it is the difference between choosing a high school bully versus a mass murderer. It is the choice between a firecracker versus a thermonuclear bomb. It is the choice between a minor cold... and ebola. The greater evil will ultimately kill you, or people you love.

If Trump wins again, it is the end of anything resembling a democratic America. That is the issue, I honestly reason.

7215055 "We do not live in an economy-we live in a society", there is so much wrong just with that statement alone that I could write an entire book about it. I suppose the biggest problem with it is the assumption that economy and society are two separate things when nothing could be further from the truth. Every society since always has had some kind of method of exchange even in more primative societies where money as we would understand it do not exist, this exchange is their economy which like "society" is driven in large part by human behavior. Everyone working is working at least to a certain extent to advance their own best interest, as Adam Smith put it

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest.

While this sounds inherrantly selfish as a motivation and you could perhaps make the argument that it in some cases is, it is through this motivation that the abundance of modern life is even remotely possible. This dosen't mean legitimate altruism does not occur or that accepting economic liberty precludes someone from having compassion toward their fellow human beings. It only means that it is neither practical nor compassionate to advance this through the barrel of a gun.

You say that if the wealthy simply paid the workers enough that this wouldn't be a problem, but if you take away someones right to make a living than their only option left is to rely on government handouts, handouts which are not infinite. Several nations have turned their printing presses on high to pay their bills in the past which has nearly always resulted in hyperinflation and will do so once again if nations do the same to keep people on welfare and unemployment during the "pandemic" which could last for quite a while. All government policies require money and I am sorry to say, but money is not infinite and you need an actual functioning tax base in order to have revenue.

I agree that workers are gettting screwed, but the very policies that you are voicing support for are creating inflation which is lowering the value of currencies which is limiting actual growth in wages. Things like fiat currencies, fractional reserve banking and central banks like the Federal Reserve are responsible for a great deal of the suffering that workers are now going through and the financial troubles that even wealthier nations are facing. This system is highly evil, exploitative and unsustainable because it robs future generations while keeping the bankers in control. Big government is one of the various tools the bankers use to sell the public the chains of their own enslavement.

Economic wealth is not created solely by the rich or poor, or by the working class or the industrial class but by citizens engaging in voluntary exchange and once that is interferred with you get serious problems like bubbles, recessions and depressions. To state that the economy is merely about rich people and their tax portfolios is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard because the economy always has been driven and always will be driven by human behavior. Simply being a billionaire does not make one part of the parasitic class, and being poor or middle class does not exempt one for being part of the parasitic class. In all likelihood neither you or I will be billionaires, but we will have much better odds of this occurring in a freer market with fewer shutdowns than in a more constrained market with more shut downs.

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....but if you take away someones right to make a living...

Nobody, in my statement, is taking away anybody's right to work. At all.

I can't even imagine where you got that from.

I am saying some very simple things. Please try to listen. I will keep it short.

➨ Billionaires should not exist. That they do is damnable and wrong. No single person should be rich enough to buy entire governments.

➨ The wealth held by the ultra-mega-rich should be given back to the people whose work actually created that wealth. Because fairness.

➨ People should be paid enough to live without fear that they will have to choose between eating or having a roof over their head.

➨ During a disaster, the central government has the responsibility to take care of the average citizen and not just the wealthiest few.

➨ You will never be a billionaire. Neither will I. Nobody either of us will ever know will be a billionaire. The market does not allow ordinary people even the chance to become billionaires - not unless they have vast wealth to start with. Horatio Alger stories are just myths now. Horatio Alger is a lie.

➨ Voting for billionaires, or for what they want, is the same as voting against yourself. Billionaires care only about themselves. They don't care about your life.

➨ Anyone who does not vote for things that help ordinary people are shitting on their own faces.

➨ This is why voting for Trump is like kicking yourself in your own balls. It makes him laugh, but it will leave you crying.

I hope making this super clear helps.

7215100 Okay, since you did bullet point I figure I will do the same.

Simply being rich dosen't make someone evil incarnate, it is difficult but still possible to become rich through hard work. You are right to condemn the parasitic rich manipulating the system for their benefit, but wrong to lump the productive rich in with them.

What you are describing is socialism which hasn't exactly worked out very well historically. In many cases you simply trade one corrupt, predatory elite for another which is the case in countries like Zimbabwe and Venezuela. Mass confiscation and redistribution requires a strong, centralized government which tends to use its own power to line the pockets of those connected to it at the expense of everyone else. This is why you tend to see burecrats in socialist countries hoarding what little wealth often exists in those countries while nearly everyone else is left in dire poverty.

Far fewer people would be living paycheck to paycheck if we stopped using fiat currencies and returned to gold/silver standards because currencies would be far more stable due to less inflation. You cannot completely eliminate poverty, but you can make it the exception rather than the norm, but not through socialism.

The government has a horrible track record of actually taking care of people, sadly. This is in large part because it is way too powerful and is taking on various functions are unconstitutional. There are countless examples of government "helping" by making things worse. In the case of this "pandemic" various state and local governments created an economic depression that need not have happened instead of just quarantining the sick and vulnerable and leaving everyone else alone.

I am well aware that the odds of becoming a billionaire in any economic system is rather slim, but I still believe that a free market is someone best shot of doing that in a way that is honest and not predatory. My goal in life isn't to become a billionaire or even a millionaire, I only care about having enough money to support myself and perhaps support a family.

I am well aware that Trump probably dosen't give a crap about me, I would rather vote for Rand Paul or Justin Amash than Donald Trump (I wrote in Rand Paul in the last election). I however also know that it is not in my best interest or in the best interests of this country for a senile old man whom is likely to implement a national lockdown is not in my or anyone else's best interest. I think of my voting for Trump as a temporary alliance, kind of like allying with the Soviet Union during WWII. It is a decision that to tell you the truth I am quite conflicted about.

I made a video about the riots and looting being done in the name of George Floyd.

I've recently heard about something called Pridefall. Anybody else have any info?

Well the general election has passed and Joe Biden is now our President-Elect. The big problem is that we have Donald Trump filing lawsuit after lawsuit in certain states. They are all based off of hearsay and no real evidence that there was voter fraud. He is also demanding recounts in elections where it won't have any influence on the outcome. This is not 2000 when the vote difference was just over 500. Right now these are north of 10k votes. Even some of his advisors are telling him to just let it go but he won't. As CNN called them, his "offspring" aren't in the same mindset. I personally think he needs to just let it go and get things set in motion for the transition team. After all, Biden needs to be ready to take on the responsibilities of President come January 20th, 2021....a day that can't get here soon enough.
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7370284 All accusations of fraud should be taken very seriously regardless of who makes them, if even half of what Trump is claiming is true than this election may even make the fraud fiilled 1876 fiasco look honest. Whether Trumps claims have any validity or not it is increasingly clear that he will not concede until they are exhausted. I hope this process is done quickly, fairly and as transparently as possible. Sadly even in the best case scenario we will likely get half the country feeling like they have cheated with a strong possibility of mass riots leading into civil war. I may have changed my mind on my earlier stated intentions of voting for Trump (I didn't vote for Biden either), but just because I don't trust one automatically means I trust the other.

If Trumps claims are baseless than they probably will get thrown out, if not than get ready for some fireworks over the course of this next month or two. This whole fiasco will most likely end in a 5/4 Supreme Court ruling, or could possibly end in a congressional delegation like the 1800 election. Theoretically either option should favor Trump, but with establishment republicans turning on Trump things might get even more complicated. These establishment republicans are claiming to do this because they value placing country before party, but the real reason is the same reason Brutus, Casius and the conspirators assassinated Julius Caesar, in other words he is a threat to their power. This dosen't make Trump political Jesus by any means, but it does mean that there is a clear that establishment republicans don't want Trump anymore than establishment democrats do and are quite happy to be given an opportunity to get rid of him.

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Simply being rich dosen't make someone evil incarnate

Behind every great fortune is a greater crime.

What you are describing is socialism which hasn't exactly worked out very well historically

All first world nations except one have socialized medicine and other socialized structures. Europe is doing fine and still exists. Australia and New Zealand are doing fine and still exist. Canada is doing fine and still exists. Singapore and South Korea are doing fine and still exist. The one nation without socialized medicine is America, with the highest death rate of covid on the planet, and one of the lower records on health on the planet. People regularly are forced into homelessness after a single major illness. FDR, with the New Deal, made America faintly socialist with Social Security, unemployment, and the right of workers to strike when they are oppressed by big business. He was the most popular president in US history.

Far fewer people would be living paycheck to paycheck if we stopped using fiat currencies and returned to gold/silver standards

No argument here. Taking America off of the gold standard was an open invitation to graft and corruption. Fiat capital is stealing from the poor to pay the rich.

The government has a horrible track record of actually taking care of people, sadly.

Absolutely not true during the time of the New Deal. Not true in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, France, and many other nations.
Definitely true with the current batch of grifters and thieves in power in the US right now.
The issue is always people. Good people make good government. Selfish, evil people steal. Government is just people.

I am well aware that the odds of becoming a billionaire in any economic system is rather slim

You have a better chance of being struck by lightning while being eaten by sharks. Literally. Not figuratively. You will never be rich. Neither will I. Neither will anyone we associate with.

I am well aware that Trump probably dosen't give a crap about me

Trump cares about you very much. He needs people to believe his lies of voter fraud in order to take his case to his packed supreme court. He is attempting a 'legal' coup. He has replaced the heads of the military, and controls five - of not six - members of the supreme court. He intends to become a dictator-for-life, eliminating democracy forever so he can be a king. He has stated, clearly, that this is what he wants and he is doing. His fans are fine with that and chant that this is what they want.

People have a choice right now. Biden - who is a very competent and decent man - or allowing the United States to become a dictatorship under King Trump - another nation like North Korea, Russia, or any number of Middle Eastern countries. But to do that, he needs his lies to be accepted - that Biden isn't better than he is (Biden is vastly better, and he believes in science), and that the election was stolen (it was not).

I have already predicted this, and it is coming true.

✔ A Prediction Checklist. October 1st, 2020. By Chatoyance.

Biden has won by legal vote. Trump still intends to try to force the issue to his controlled supreme court.

✔ The Trumpublicans install a Loyal Supreme Court replacement (Barrett) for Ginsburg.

✔The Democrats will do almost nothing at all, their reaction will be weak and far less than they should, or could do. There will be violent protests that accomplish nothing.

✔HalfThe vote is overwhelmingly for Biden, but the Supreme Court rules Trump won anyway, 6-4. Even more violent protests and an attempt at revolt, but nothing will be accomplished.
ELECTION UPDATE: Biden has clearly and overwhelmingly won, yet Trump intends to get the Supreme Court to stop any further lawful counting of votes and just rule in his favor anyway. He is trying to assemble a legal team to take him there under false pretenses.

❑ The Supreme Court enters a massive phase of eliminating personal freedoms and liberties. Roe Vs. Wade, Gay marriage, and the right to strike and protest are effectively, or actually eliminated, for example.

❑ Trump is effectively Enabled to become President-For-Life. The Constitution will be radically re-interpreted or even blatantly ignored. Eventually, it will be altered and even effectively replaced.

❑ A very small, wimpy pseudo-civil war will pathetically object. Many people will die, yet nothing real will be achieved.

❑ For the rest of all of our lives, we will be trapped in a dystopian dictatorship. Poverty, cruelty, and sickness will be our lives, for generations. The effects of this will spread to Europe and the rest of the world in ways that will shock other nations. Social and financial degradation will become global.

❑ This is the beginning of the Collapse, which I wrote about in my novels here.
They will call it America, but it will not be America any more, or ever again.

Prediction Probability Value: I give this 65% to happen mostly or entirely, and 87% to happen partially.

Let's see if I am wrong.

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You will never be a billionaire. Neither will I. Nobody either of us will ever know will be a billionaire. The market does not allow ordinary people even the chance to become billionaires - not unless they have vast wealth to start with.

Not billionaire level (yet), but my uncle is at 60+ million and started off sleeping on the floor of an apartment building hallway. Came to the US with nothing and barely any English.

Even as someone who's not money crazy, I never liked self-limiting stuff like this. If someone wants to be a billionaire, why not try? At the end of trying (40+ years at least), you'll no doubt be better off than 99% of people at least.

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All you have to do is look at the numbers. You know that one postal worker in Pennsylvania who claimed voter fraud, he/she recanted the claim because he/she simply made it up. Even if there is fraud, WHICH I HIGHLY DOUBT, there wouldn't be enough to swing a state over to the side of evil. Trump just needs to get over it, drop the lawsuits and book his flight to a nation with no extradition treaty on January 20. Claim what you want but there are only two ways you can be. You can either despise Donald Trump with every ounce and fiber of your soul or you can be the enemy of the free world.

Hillary likely could have done something similar back in 2016 but didn't because unlike Trump, she has dignity and knew that she lost under our completely fucked up electoral system. Looking back at it, one of the dumbest things the Founding Fathers did was create an electoral system that allows losers to win anyway. In any normal nation Hillary's 3+million vote advantage would have won the election and this year, Biden so far as a 5+million vote lead....if the USA didn't use an ass backwards system, we wouldn't be having this problem now would we?

By the way, nothing Trump says is true. All he and his cronies know how to do is lie so any and all voter fraud accusations should be nothing more than material for comedians to make fun of.

7370369

I hope this never comes to pass. Hell I would rather have the nations of the EU decide to march in and save this country, even if it meant some major changes than have your scenario happen. If it starts looking like that might happen, Canada would likely have to build a wall to keep us out. I doubt they'd take in 76+million Biden voter refugees....well make that 100+million given we would be taking our families with us, given their total population is far less than that. Rather than refugees coming to America, the US would be the nation where people would be fleeing to other nations seeking freedom from a tyrannical government.....how many would take us in?

7370369 So it is impossible to achieve wealth according to you through honest or ethical means? Nice logic there comrade. While FDR was indeed popular, he is still easily one of Americas worst presidents and his socialist New Deal considerably lengthened the Great Depression by delaying the market corrections needed to end it. The expansion of government power that occurred under his administration was the most injurous to personal liberty since Woodrow Wilson whom I believe takes the number one spot for Americas worst president. You are correct that people often are forced into bankruptcy over things like illness, but the reason healthcare is so expensive is due to government involvement in it in the first place. While the single payer system present in other countries is better than this system, it is still objectively terrible as people often die waiting to get treated and in some cases there are even death panels. Do you really want the same goverment responsible for atrocities like the Tuskeegee Experiment to have life and death control over so many people in such a vulnerable position?

I am glad you at least agree that the fiat standards is shit and needs to go, but massive welfare states cannot survive under anything other than a fiat standard due to the vast amount of money necessarry to run them, money that cannot be gained simply through taxation and borrowing alone. Limited welfare states can possibly exist at the state level, but a federal one would not be realistic in the slightest without fiat currency. With a return to the gold standard or something similar there would be less of a need for public welfare anyway because the dollar would have a great deal more purchasing power.

As for Trump just how much kool aide have you been drinking? I said in my prior post (the more recent one after the one you actually responded to) I stated that I ultimately didn't end up voting for either Trump or Biden, but most of what you saying is still completely and totally divorced from reality. It is true that Trump has effectively swung the Supreme Court more in his favor, but nearly any president regardless of party would have done the same. He nominated justices that pleased his base and the Senate confirmed them. Granted the Senate did a horrible job actually asking them the necessary questions with the democrats focusing on unproven rape allegations against Kavanaugh and focusing mostly on abortion and health care for ACB while in both cases the republicans just threw partisan softballs. I would have loved to have heard questions on qualified immunity, police reform, lockdown orders, stop and frisk, the 4th amendment in general and other civil liberties issues but neither party gives a shit about any of that.

Trump will never become president for life, if he tries something like that than even most of his supporters will turn against him. Even if the Supreme Court rules in Trumps favor and Trumps claims do turn out to be baseless with establishment republicans already turning on him in such an obvious way such an action would eliminate any further political leverage Trump would have. Trump would be rightfully seen as a tyrant and not only impeached, but removed by congress and possibly even arrested. The globalists aren't far enough in their plans to have a president for life installed just yet, and they probably won't. What will most likely happen in this election is that the Supreme Court will either give a 5/4 ruling like in 2000 or they will send it to a congressional delegation to decide. Unfortunately, due to the violent communists like Antifa there could be a civil war in response that could very well get even worse than the last one. If you want a model for what a modern civil war in American would look like than I suggest you research the Spanish Civil War.

7370472 I have friends and family that voted for Trump and some that voted for Biden, and I am on decent terms with most of them because unlike you I am a rational adult. You say that unless you hate Trump so much that you believe everything the media and the democrats say about him regardless of whether or not it is actually that you are an enemy of the free world, but I say that those are the words or a dangerous authoritarian that has let blind hatred and emotions could his judgment. Are you one of those leftists that want to start enemies lists of Trump supporters like AOC does? If so than you need to look in a mirror before calling anyone an enemy of the free world. You say you would rather have the UN come in and intervene when any patriot regardess of political persuasion will shoot them if they dare to show up here. I understand you don't like Trump, I don't like him or Biden and am very pleased that I snapped out of it and didn't vote for him come election time. Some of the bad stuff said about Trump is true, but there is also a lot of stuff said about him that is BS like the Russian hacker nonsense from the 2016 election. How is the Russian hacker stuff so much more likely and acccepted than well documented voter fraud tricks that have been used since the days of the big city political machines of the 19 century?

As for the Electoral College system, I understand why people don't like it but I also understand why it was implemented. I don't want every presidential election ever to only be decided by California, New York and Texas, but I also recognize that the system needs reform. Maine and Nebraska are the only two states to award their electoral college votes by congressional distract rather than winner take all and I would like to see most other states do the same. If what Trump says is true than even without the electoral college system this election still would have been a god awful mess. If what Trump says is garbage and that the courts will throw it out than why try to stop the process from happening in the first place? Why go to all that trouble when all you need to do is give Trump enough rope to hang himself with? If Trump really is lying about voter fraud than why not let him embarass himself in front of America and the entire world? If there in fact is fraud though and it goes unpunished than what makes you think these same tricks can't or won't be used against candidates you voted for?

7370472

how many would take us in?

There isn't room, so... nobody.

If Trump and his cult succeed in a 'legal' coup or a violent coup-d'etat, there will be only three options for non-evil Americans. The first is to give up and become a registered Nazi. The second is... civil war. But one thing is for sure - the rest of the planet cannot take 100 million people in because Trumpism won.

Neither of the two outcomes is desirable or fun.

The third option is to resist at every level. The only hope of avoiding the above is that somehow Trump's attempt to seize the nation by lies and potentially violence fails... and that means that those in power who could oppose him actually do so.

What would that look like?

Right now, Trump is replacing the civilian oversight leaders of the military with loyalists, even to the point of having lists made of any who supported or liked the people he is eliminating. This is a basic move by any would-be tyrant. Absolute control of the military is basically a win condition for a dictator, and he is on the job.

But, if the actual military command structure straight up refused his direct orders and rebelled, on the grounds that his actions are in contradiction to democracy, he would instantly fail. But to do that, they would have to value their oaths (all enemies foreign and domestic) above their careers and even their lives. They would have to care more about the constitution than their own position or safety. I remain unsure they are capable of such an act of true patriotism.

Trump has stated for years that one of his plans is to find any excuse to get the election results taken to the supreme court, which he now has packed with loyalists to grant him anything he demands. If those same judges decided that, now they are secure and installed, that destroying democracy and enabling a dictator is just too far and too high a price to pay, and straight up defied Trump, then he is boned. The question is, would they do this? So far, it kind of looks like they believe in him as a dictator. But, if goodness still exists in them at all, then they would turn on him and his plot would fail.

If someone - anyone - could possibly convince him to concede, either by calls to strategy, bribes, concessions, or even threats, and he actually did, that would be the best possible outcome.

As a last resort, if everyone who believes in democracy were to just strike Absolutely - refuse to work, refuse to do anything - until he was removed and the rule of law restored, that would nonviolently work. It has in other nations where potential dictators tries exactly what Trump is trying now. You cannot rule a nation that refuses to do anything. Nothing works. Everything shuts down. No dictator can survive that, not if more than half of the nation in question strikes Absolutely in unison. The problem is... we would all have to do this. Even if we went hungry for a while. Even if the power goes out. Even if it means sitting in the dark, trying to survive without power or garbage collection or supermarkets being open. It would be hard. Very hard. But it would work.

Obviously, it would take a strong and determined people to do such a thing... and Americans are, by and large, fat, smug, childish and lazy as a people. I am not sure Americans can be brave enough to save their own nation nonviolently.

The failure of the above, as mentioned, if one does not want to join the white supremacists that are his core, is violent. This option - and it should be the very last option, because the aftermath is always terrible for decades to come - is open civil war. The cost of such a thing, even if one wins, is misery for generations, and a deeper fracturing of the civilization as a whole. Which is why Trump failing to permit the nonviolent transfer of power is so dangerous... and so deeply unamerican and undemocratic.

7370563

Am I a leftist who wants to make enemies lists? I'll tell you this, I am actually a centrist but my hatred for Donald Trump can not be measured. He has been nothing short of pure arrogant shit his whole life. I didn't like him back in the 80s when I first saw him on the TV, he was an ass in his reality TV shows, he has done nothing but con and scam people his whole life. The hatred did not develop until he actually had power where he could destroy this country. I don't support the AOC style enemies' list but I do have my own personal enemies' list.

Do you know what would happen if you went with every state doing the congressional district thing? You would never see another democrat elected again, you'd only see republicans win the presidency and I think in the long haul, that would ultimately turn this into a one party state and I highly doubt you would want that. When you look at that break down of county by county, the map looks like an old Soviet flag with a few patches of blue here and there.

Would the popular vote system cause certain states to decide the election all the time, yeah it would. However, as a democrat that lives in a deep red state, at least my vote would actually matter on the grander stage. Unless someone lives in a state where elections are always close, their vote doesn't mean shit. A democrat in Wyoming or a republican in New York, their votes for president are basically pointless. You see why I think the popular vote is a better method? Everyone could make a difference, not just those in close states.

Why do I think he just needs to quit with this shit? He is delaying the certification of the votes and as of right now, President-Elect Biden is not getting the daily briefings that a President-Elect would normally get. Back in 2016, Hillary conceded when you had close races in the rust belt that could have won it for her. Trump then was able to start getting access to transition money so he'd be ready to take over come January 20, 2017. Trump needs to simply accept the voice of the people and allow Biden to get access to what he needs to take over.

Just when you thought things couldn't get more stupid in the election challenges, Texas decides to go and set the bar so high Trump probably couldn't even clear it.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/12/08/texas-attorney-general-ken-paxton-sues-battleground-states-says-changes-to-2020-election-laws-unconstitutional/

Those mother fuckers down in Texas are throwing their weight around like a brainless bully. Seriously, suing other states just because they don't like how the elections turned out in Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania? This is getting to the point where Trump and his lackeys are willing to go as far as meddling with elections in other states. If they get their way and steal this election from Biden, we may as well turn into a fucking dictatorship. Screw the will of the people, right? As long as they can steal this election for their no-good "messiah" and disenfranchise millions and millions of voters, they'll be happy, Trump's cult will be happy and he will have succeeded in destroying the democratic process.

Hopefully the SCOTUS will refuse to hear this shitty lawsuit. If they hear this, rule in favor of Texas and overturn the election, America will be dead to me. Only in dictator ran shitholes would something like that happen.

7388433
It's part of the ongoing 'autogoulpe' soft-coup effort Trumpists have been running with. Since every other scam has failed, the last remaining effort is to leverage the overwhelming Republican Supreme Court to steal the election directly. That is why so many lawsuits are starting to target a trip to the Supreme Court specifically. Trump installed what he thought were utterly loyal puppets... but it is kind of looking like the puppets are not playing ball the way he thought they would.

But... it could still happen. All it takes is one stupid lawsuit that the Trump-appointed, supposedly 'party loyal' justices are willing to risk going along with to make Trump a dictator.

7388731

Just earlier today the Supreme Court flat out denied this lawsuit by Pennsylvania republicans and pretty much sealed Trump's fate. The SCOTUS also said that they won't be hearing anything regarding the election after tomorrow. All the analysts are saying that the Court will likely do with the Texas suit what they did with this one....a one line denial without any dissenters. I could see Trump going as far as coming up with whacked out conspiracy theories involving the SCOTUS being out to get him.

7388759
This news is surprisingly wonderful. It makes me feel hope, so... thank you.

7388846

From what I understand, this SCOTUS isn't wanting to be the ones to decide the election. Despite three of the justices being Trump appointees, the Court isn't ruling in his favor. Then again, justices don't always rule in favor of the president that nominated them to be on the Court. I'm wondering if perhaps this Court has more integrity than I thought it would. The decision on the Texas lawsuit will go a long way in seeing if they truly do have the integrity that they are showing right now.

I swear, when all is said and done with this and if it goes the way it is supposed to, all the conservatives over in The Unsafe Space that are in denial right now and making outlandish claims trying to disprove my post there will be crying so much the NWS will have to issue flash flood warnings.

7388891
At this point, I honestly reason that Republicanism... really, now Trumpublicanism, needs to go. It needs to end. The Republican party, as an entity, cannot be allowed to continue to exist. It is literally espousing nothing less than sedition and treason, and the destruction of democracy itself. Each day, I cannot rationalize how those calling for the end of valid democracy are not already in jail.

7388974

What I am hoping for is the republican party to fracture. The moderates would create their own party (yes there are moderate republicans) and the Trumpists would form their own party....the big winner there would be the democrats. I do hope that all these ridiculous antics by Trump will cause republicans to not get out and vote in force in that Georgia runoff election come January 5. Control of the Senate would be a huge plus for Biden's first two years.

7388974
Well Chat, we won! Only 40 days left of this nightmare!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/supreme-court-order-texas-election-case/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2020-12-11T23:54:06&fbclid=IwAR2r6DmaDRze6SP6505EP8q-CcOhfa9TzwbXAA5rz3_sEtT2oP7TpqRHFhA

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/supreme-court-texas-trump-biden/index.html

7390991
I truly feel like we dodged a bullet there. There was no question Trump pushed through his three Justices specifically for the purpose of pulling a coup - he straight-up indicated exactly that. Yet they did not bow, when the moment came. They could have. They could have ruled he won, after some shenanigans, and, since the Supreme Court is supreme, literally the law, nothing... legal... could oppose such a ruling. They could have enabled Trump to become the dictator he wanted to be. But they did not. The actually shot him down. Even Barrett.

I am surprised, but grateful. I wonder why they chose to bite the hand that placed them in power, why they refused to follow through on the one thing he expected - demanded - of them. There must be some nightmare stuff behind all of that.

But, I think, this must put paid to Trump's account. Surely he is done now. If the Supreme Court won't enable him, he has only one path left: military coup, or open civil war. He's tried to pack the military recently, but I don't think that is going to work - he can't pack it enough to do the job. So that leaves open civil rebellion, and I think if that is tried, the military will squash it hard. So... Trump is no longer a threat, I think.

YAY!

I had my concerns with the way he was packing the court with conservatives but what happened here was that those three followed the Constitution. They bit the hand of the guy who put him in because they put country ahead of Trump, which is something that many conservatives aren't doing these days. There are still plenty of things they can rule on where their political agenda will show easily but luckily for us, they did their jobs and didn't play politics.

Here is what is likely his only option now, he has over 74 million loyalists out there, loyalists that he can order to get armed and shoot to kill. They are so brainwashed that if he ordered them to overthrow their local, county and state governments using any means necessary, they would. Many of his supporters are armed with AR-15s, AK-47s and other assault rifles and it doesn't take much to turn a semi-automatic rifle into a fully automatic one. Thing is though, the military has arms that make those look like antique pistols.

We do have one other thing to worry about. I'm watching Don Lemon on CNN right now and come January 6th when Congress meets in a joint session to count the electoral votes, republicans could very well challenge the electoral votes from PA, GA, MI and WI. I am pretty sure the GOP will try their hardest to try and keep their messiah in power then. I won't be fully comfortable until January 20, 2021 at noon, eastern time when Biden officially becomes president.